[DuckDodgers]

The Bible is equivalent to a 500 word sports editorial?

[Lord Dave]

The Bible is equivalent to a 500 word sports editorial?

No, God.

[Yaakov ben Avraham]

Considering you can't quote correctly, I'm having trouble seeing your "intelligence".

I'm not talking about what ifs but so much as unexplained time.  If it takes 30 minutes to fetch a new bat then the hitter realizes he needs a new one and it takes another 30 minutes to get it, that makes one ask why it took so along. 

God, you do try to be dense. Moses didn't just go up for tablets. He went up and wrote the entire text of the Torah and got the Oral Torah. That would take at least 80 days, schmuck.

1. How do you know how long such a task would take?
2. Correct me if I'm wrong but isnt' the Torah a collection of many "chapters" (for lack of a better word) such as:
Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbersm, and Deuteronomy.
And didn't Numbersm, and Deuteronomy get written AFTER Exodus? (ie. after Moses went to see God on the mountain)  I find it very curious that God gave Moses the creation story, a history he already knew (including his own), a chapter on laws and rituals, and 2 Chapters worth of the future.
3. If it would take 80 days to write all that, why did he come down after only 40?  WITH the Oral and Written Torah?  You have agreed that he did so at best it would take him only 40 days for both.  But let's go with some math shall we?

The Written Torah consists of 79,847 words. (I'm assuming he wrote even the stuff that didn't happen yet)
Average human hand-writing is 20 words per minute for copying.   This gives us 3992.35 minutes to copy it down.  Which is 66.5 hours. That's not exactly 40 days and 40 nights.  He'd have to be writing at around 2 words a minute and working for 12 hours a day to get around 40 days.  Both times.  And why would he write it down?  Why not let God poof him a scroll?  He'd be done in seconds rather than 2.5 months.

Again, you're demonstrating your own stupidity. You are good at that, aren't you? I expect that as he was writing Torah, he probably had a shit-ton of questions that God had to patiently answer. When God gave him laws for the Jewish People, he probably wanted to know why they were given, so he could explain. Those questions, and their answers, would form part of the Oral Torah, but they would take a long time to answer. He would need the first 40 days, and likewise another 40. As I indicated, I am guessing that God was going to call him back up the Mount even if he HADN'T broken the first tablets. The fact that he did I suspect is just a side-note insofar as he needed them again.

Now God is all powerful and makes land masses in a day.  A stone tablet should be no problem yet it takes 40 times as long.

And you don't watch baseball much.  They talk about what could have happened all the time.

Not in the newspaper report they don't. They might in casual conversation, or in game analysis, but in the basic report of what occurred, or on the nightly news, they don't.

So the holy word of God is nothing more than a newspaper article or the nightly news?  Man, God has serious detail issues.

Stupid response not worthy of reply.

Also, if I heard a game where the batter hit the ball into the lights then the next thing they said was that he was out, I'd want to know how that happened.

Your point?

That you need to ask questions when things don't make logical sense.

It does make logical sense if you have an IQ above single digits.

[Yaakov ben Avraham]

The Bible is equivalent to a 500 word sports editorial?

Ah, whatever.

No, God.

Ah, extra-whatever.

Well, its too bad this debate hasn't been moderated by say, a Hindu. But, then, someone brainwashed by the likes of Richard Dawkins is unlikely to change their pea-brain excuse for a mind even God reveals himself personally to that individual. So, knowing that, its fairly easy just to chuckle at the overall stupidity of the individual. But I must admit, Dave, you take it to an extreme I have never seen before. You take the taco for dense, buddy. Your yap is getting you into more trouble... but do keep opening it if you like... feel free...

[Lord Dave]

Considering you can't quote correctly, I'm having trouble seeing your "intelligence".

I'm not talking about what ifs but so much as unexplained time.  If it takes 30 minutes to fetch a new bat then the hitter realizes he needs a new one and it takes another 30 minutes to get it, that makes one ask why it took so along. 

God, you do try to be dense. Moses didn't just go up for tablets. He went up and wrote the entire text of the Torah and got the Oral Torah. That would take at least 80 days, schmuck.

1. How do you know how long such a task would take?
2. Correct me if I'm wrong but isnt' the Torah a collection of many "chapters" (for lack of a better word) such as:
Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbersm, and Deuteronomy.
And didn't Numbersm, and Deuteronomy get written AFTER Exodus? (ie. after Moses went to see God on the mountain)  I find it very curious that God gave Moses the creation story, a history he already knew (including his own), a chapter on laws and rituals, and 2 Chapters worth of the future.
3. If it would take 80 days to write all that, why did he come down after only 40?  WITH the Oral and Written Torah?  You have agreed that he did so at best it would take him only 40 days for both.  But let's go with some math shall we?

The Written Torah consists of 79,847 words. (I'm assuming he wrote even the stuff that didn't happen yet)
Average human hand-writing is 20 words per minute for copying.   This gives us 3992.35 minutes to copy it down.  Which is 66.5 hours. That's not exactly 40 days and 40 nights.  He'd have to be writing at around 2 words a minute and working for 12 hours a day to get around 40 days.  Both times.  And why would he write it down?  Why not let God poof him a scroll?  He'd be done in seconds rather than 2.5 months.

Again, you're demonstrating your own stupidity. You are good at that, aren't you? I expect that as he was writing Torah, he probably had a shit-ton of questions that God had to patiently answer. When God gave him laws for the Jewish People, he probably wanted to know why they were given, so he could explain. Those questions, and their answers, would form part of the Oral Torah, but they would take a long time to answer. He would need the first 40 days, and likewise another 40. As I indicated, I am guessing that God was going to call him back up the Mount even if he HADN'T broken the first tablets. The fact that he did I suspect is just a side-note insofar as he needed them again.

So you don't know.  You create facts based on assumption.  You have nothing and you call me dumb?  You can't even answer a simple question. 

Now God is all powerful and makes land masses in a day.  A stone tablet should be no problem yet it takes 40 times as long.

And you don't watch baseball much.  They talk about what could have happened all the time.

Not in the newspaper report they don't. They might in casual conversation, or in game analysis, but in the basic report of what occurred, or on the nightly news, they don't.

So the holy word of God is nothing more than a newspaper article or the nightly news?  Man, God has serious detail issues.

Stupid response not worthy of reply.

So you have no argument against my statement.  Gotcha.  Thanks for proving my point.

Also, if I heard a game where the batter hit the ball into the lights then the next thing they said was that he was out, I'd want to know how that happened.

Your point?

That you need to ask questions when things don't make logical sense.

It does make logical sense if you have an IQ above single digits.

You have yet to show any proof of logic.  All you've thrown out are logical fallacies.  And since the only argument you really seem to have these days is Ad hominim, then it seems to me you really have no answers.  All you have in your limited mind is a book that you have decided must be factual and contain no errors or inconsistencies.

I pray that if you have children, they do not suffer the same fate.

[Yaakov ben Avraham]

Considering you can't quote correctly, I'm having trouble seeing your "intelligence".

I'm not talking about what ifs but so much as unexplained time.  If it takes 30 minutes to fetch a new bat then the hitter realizes he needs a new one and it takes another 30 minutes to get it, that makes one ask why it took so along. 

God, you do try to be dense. Moses didn't just go up for tablets. He went up and wrote the entire text of the Torah and got the Oral Torah. That would take at least 80 days, schmuck.

1. How do you know how long such a task would take?
2. Correct me if I'm wrong but isnt' the Torah a collection of many "chapters" (for lack of a better word) such as:
Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbersm, and Deuteronomy.
And didn't Numbersm, and Deuteronomy get written AFTER Exodus? (ie. after Moses went to see God on the mountain)  I find it very curious that God gave Moses the creation story, a history he already knew (including his own), a chapter on laws and rituals, and 2 Chapters worth of the future.
3. If it would take 80 days to write all that, why did he come down after only 40?  WITH the Oral and Written Torah?  You have agreed that he did so at best it would take him only 40 days for both.  But let's go with some math shall we?

The Written Torah consists of 79,847 words. (I'm assuming he wrote even the stuff that didn't happen yet)
Average human hand-writing is 20 words per minute for copying.   This gives us 3992.35 minutes to copy it down.  Which is 66.5 hours. That's not exactly 40 days and 40 nights.  He'd have to be writing at around 2 words a minute and working for 12 hours a day to get around 40 days.  Both times.  And why would he write it down?  Why not let God poof him a scroll?  He'd be done in seconds rather than 2.5 months.

Again, you're demonstrating your own stupidity. You are good at that, aren't you? I expect that as he was writing Torah, he probably had a shit-ton of questions that God had to patiently answer. When God gave him laws for the Jewish People, he probably wanted to know why they were given, so he could explain. Those questions, and their answers, would form part of the Oral Torah, but they would take a long time to answer. He would need the first 40 days, and likewise another 40. As I indicated, I am guessing that God was going to call him back up the Mount even if he HADN'T broken the first tablets. The fact that he did I suspect is just a side-note insofar as he needed them again.

So you don't know.  You create facts based on assumption.  You have nothing and you call me dumb?  You can't even answer a simple question. 

Lets see. God wants to give you laws for an entire nation of people. He expects you then to enforce those laws after writing them down. You aren't going to have ANY questions for him? NONE? Seriously?! How ludicrous can you get?!

Now God is all powerful and makes land masses in a day.  A stone tablet should be no problem yet it takes 40 times as long.

And you don't watch baseball much.  They talk about what could have happened all the time.

Not in the newspaper report they don't. They might in casual conversation, or in game analysis, but in the basic report of what occurred, or on the nightly news, they don't.

So the holy word of God is nothing more than a newspaper article or the nightly news?  Man, God has serious detail issues.

Stupid response not worthy of reply.

So you have no argument against my statement.  Gotcha.  Thanks for proving my point.

Your statement was essentially a non-statement which added nothing to the argument. Therefore, you made no point. Therefore, I proved no point of yours, except perhaps the one on top of your head. You're welcome.

Also, if I heard a game where the batter hit the ball into the lights then the next thing they said was that he was out, I'd want to know how that happened.

Your point?

That you need to ask questions when things don't make logical sense.

It does make logical sense if you have an IQ above single digits.

You have yet to show any proof of logic.  All you've thrown out are logical fallacies.  And since the only argument you really seem to have these days is Ad hominim, then it seems to me you really have no answers.  All you have in your limited mind is a book that you have decided must be factual and contain no errors or inconsistencies.

Since you have presented no arguments worth arguing against, all I can do is politely inform you that you lack overall intelligence. It is not an ad hominem to inform someone that they are stupid when in fact, that statement is true. I'm not trying to prove an argument by doing that. I'm trying to help you by pointing out that you probably need special education or therapy.You have made no argument to argue against. If you had, I would be arguing against it without telling you that you were stupid, even though you are. But when someone does not MAKE an argument, it is hard to argue with that person.

I pray that if you have children, they do not suffer the same fate.

The last statement was simply an abusive non-sequitur and proves you to be an unpleasant alter kacker in addition to being of limited intelligence.

[EnigmaZV]

Lets see. God wants to give you laws for an entire nation of people. He expects you then to enforce those laws after writing them down. You aren't going to have ANY questions for him? NONE? Seriously?! How ludicrous can you get?

I suppose it would depend on how good God would be at communicating his expectations. If he did a poor job of it, I would probably have questions.

[Yaakov ben Avraham]

Well, how about the following: Don't eat any animal that doesn't chew the cud and doesn't have a split hoof. The text itself doesn't explain why. Wouldn't your first question be, why not?

[EnigmaZV]

Too bad he didn't write down the answer he got.

[Yaakov ben Avraham]

He didn't have to. Its in Oral Torah. Every thing the Rabbis have ever debated about in the last 4500 years is classified as Oral Torah. That is the nature of the beast. We believe that that is what God gave us, but he gave us Oral Torah to figure out for ourselves. We have to use our own reason to get to the answers. Simply relying on "because Moses said so" is not enough. We need to understand for ourselves what God wanted us to do. The results that we come up with are invariably going the be the same ones that God gave to Moses, because God did not just tell Moses, because X. Instead, he made Moses answer his own question. So when Moses says, why can't we eat pork, God's answer is, why do you think you can't eat pork? Moses thinks, and processes that, and comes up with some possible answers, and God gives him some ideas. We use the same process now. Eventually, the same result will be obtained, because we believe that the Rabbis have the spirit of God in them, as Moses did.

This is not to say that they are Prophets and Lawgivers the way he was. This is to say though, that they are not stupid men. They are entirely capable of understanding the world around them and coming up with answers to problems that present themselves. For that matter, so is the individual Jew on matters that affect him or his loved ones personally. With much prayer and meditation, one can know how to apply Jewish Law under some circumstances. Of course, the help of one's Rabbi is often of benefit.

[EnigmaZV]

Well I think it was given to Moses so they didn't eat their camels if they got desperately hungry, and pigs were an afterthought.

Does that commandment also mean that you can't eat fish?

[Yaakov ben Avraham]

No, it applies to land animals. Sea animals fall under a different set of rules, as do animals which fly. In the water you may eat true fish, ie, things that have fins and scales. This means no shellfish, no lobster, no crab, etc. As far as birds, you can't eat birds of pray or carrion eaters.

You can't eat insects, EXCEPT for locusts, which are indeed kosher for eating (not that i personally ever met someone who wanted to eat one), and you can't eat things that creep, like worms, and things of that nature.
 
As far as land animals, if it exists on land, it has to chew the cud, and it has to have cloven hoofs. otherwise it can't be eaten. If an animal is not kosher, then no product derived from it is kosher with one exception. Bees are NOT kosher to eat, but their honey is.

[Vindictus]

Lol. Can't have them eating the fucking bees, that would be barbarous. Locusts are alright though.

It really does seem like some numpty sat down and wrote out every animal they were aware of, before arbitrarily putting ticks or crosses next to each one.

[Lord Dave]

He didn't have to. Its in Oral Torah. Every thing the Rabbis have ever debated about in the last 4500 years is classified as Oral Torah. That is the nature of the beast. We believe that that is what God gave us, but he gave us Oral Torah to figure out for ourselves. We have to use our own reason to get to the answers. Simply relying on "because Moses said so" is not enough. We need to understand for ourselves what God wanted us to do. The results that we come up with are invariably going the be the same ones that God gave to Moses, because God did not just tell Moses, because X. Instead, he made Moses answer his own question. So when Moses says, why can't we eat pork, God's answer is, why do you think you can't eat pork? Moses thinks, and processes that, and comes up with some possible answers, and God gives him some ideas. We use the same process now. Eventually, the same result will be obtained, because we believe that the Rabbis have the spirit of God in them, as Moses did.

This is not to say that they are Prophets and Lawgivers the way he was. This is to say though, that they are not stupid men. They are entirely capable of understanding the world around them and coming up with answers to problems that present themselves. For that matter, so is the individual Jew on matters that affect him or his loved ones personally. With much prayer and meditation, one can know how to apply Jewish Law under some circumstances. Of course, the help of one's Rabbi is often of benefit.

Best evidence for a lack of a God I've ever heard.

[Yaakov ben Avraham]

Best evidence for a lack of a God I've ever heard.
[/quote]

Or perhaps just further evidence that you are too unintelligent to comprehend my response. Again, I strongly advise Special Education. If you like, tell me what city you're in, and I'll track down the aid that they have for Special Needs adults in that city, County, and State. I won't even charge you for the privilege. On the house.

You see, most of us appreciate being able to use our brains in concert with God to understand ourselves. We leave being told what to do in dictatorial fashion to the Southern Baptists. And we leave the idea of thinking we have complete control over everything to people like you, who have such limited intelligence that they honestly believe themselves when they say that the universe occurred by itself. Or even worse, that humans have complete control over their own lives.

So, good on you. In all these posts, you have managed to prove nothing except your own limitations, which appear to me to be quite severe. That is unfortunate. For the briefest moment, I thought you were actually going to be a challenge. NOT!Oh, well. A pity.

[beardo]

Do you preview you posts at all?

[Yaakov ben Avraham]

I'm not worried about the minor quotation issues. The quotation system here is not that good, so I am forced to make do. I do well enough to get my point across. As far as my grammar and spelling, I do try to check that, yes.

[EnigmaZV]

So I'm curious, why is it that so much is forbidden to eat? Let's use the standard pork and lobster as examples.

[Lord Dave]

Best evidence for a lack of a God I've ever heard.

Or perhaps just further evidence that you were too unintelligent to comprehend my response. Again, I strongly advise Special Education. If you like, tell me what city you're in, and I'll track down the aid that they have for Special Needs adults in that city, County, and State. I won't even charge you for the privilege. On the house.

I understand you have personal experience with being specially educated but I can assure you I've passed all intelligence tests with high marks.  But I appreciate the concern for my well being.

You see, most of us appreciate being able to use our brains in concert with God to understand ourselves. We leave being told what to do in dictatorial fashion to the Southern Baptists.

Ummm.... the Torah seems to disagree with you on that. 

And we leave the idea of thinking we have complete control over everything to people like you

I control myself.  I do not control the Universe (though I do control some small parts of it such as my TV, my computer, and the glass I am currently drinking from).

, who have such limited intelligence that they honestly believe themselves when they say that the universe occurred by itself. Or even worse, that humans have complete control over their own lives.

Well considering I'm living comfortably and happy: I have a job I love that pays well enough, a wonderful wife, and a newborn son.  If God has any control over my life, you'd think I'd be suffering right?  I mean, I'm against his chosen people, or at least you.  If God has control, why would he give me what one could easily consider a perfect life? 

So, good on you. In all these posts, you have managed to prove nothing except your own limitations, which appear to me to be quite severe. That is unfortunate. For the briefest moment, I thought you were actually going to be a challenge. NOT!Oh, well. A pity.

Said the guy who can't learn to use the quote feature.  Just saying..

[Yaakov ben Avraham]

So I'm curious, why is it that so much is forbidden to eat? Let's use the standard pork and lobster as examples.

Well, there are a variety of answers I could give to the question that is posted here on the quoted page. But pork is simple. One, its EXTREMELY unhealthy for you. Two, its damned hard to cook without getting worms, especially over an open fire.

Now, why the original message asked about penguins, I am still trying to figure out! I don't know anything about penguins, let alone whether one is allowed to eat them, so I can't answer that question.