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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Teachers deserve low pay
« Reply #40 on: May 01, 2016, 01:11:54 AM »
Tom is right. All the computer science professors at University were too incompetent to be coding monkeys after they got their degrees, so they had no choice but to get their doctorates so they could make something of themselves.

A doctorate merely means that you continued through school to get your doctorate. That alone doesn't make you smart or special. For example, apparently those losers at your university were so stupid that all they could do in life after their profound accomplishment was repeat what was told to them to children.

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Offline Pete Svarrior

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Re: Teachers deserve low pay
« Reply #41 on: May 01, 2016, 11:41:22 AM »
all they could do in life after their profound accomplishment was repeat what was told to them to children.
I'm not sure you're aware, but most professors are researchers first and foremost, and educators second. I would recommend familiarising yourself with academia before passing judgement on it. Avoiding elementary errors like that will make you look less silly, and you may even find it will increase the persuasive power of your arguments (albeit at the consequence of their content changing).
« Last Edit: May 01, 2016, 11:43:57 AM by SexWarrior »
Read the FAQ before asking your question - chances are we already addressed it.
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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Teachers deserve low pay
« Reply #42 on: May 02, 2016, 12:36:25 AM »
all they could do in life after their profound accomplishment was repeat what was told to them to children.
I'm not sure you're aware, but most professors are researchers first and foremost, and educators second. I would recommend familiarising yourself with academia before passing judgement on it. Avoiding elementary errors like that will make you look less silly, and you may even find it will increase the persuasive power of your arguments (albeit at the consequence of their content changing).

Professors take jobs at universities primarily to teach, not do research. The University forces them to do research for their own profit, and emphasizes that role as it can be very profitable for the institution, but that is besides the point. No one goes into professorship because of the research.

See http://www.nea.org/home/33067.htm

Quote
Full-time, tenured faculty must serve on academic committees and, at most four-year colleges and universities, conduct research as well. In spite of these requirements, faculty responding to surveys overwhelmingly report that teaching is their favorite responsibility and that they do more teaching than anything else. According to a government survey, even faculty at research universities spend considerably more time teaching than conducting research.

Professors don't want their careers to live or die depending on how well they do their research. They don't want to do the art of bringing new things into the world. They just want the easy job of repeating the same things over and over to endless classes of students. If they wanted to create new and wonderful things for the world they would have gone to work for a research lab or a tech startup, or they would have created one of their own.

They are afraid of failure, and would much prefer the comfort and security of an easy position of repeating themselves to children.
« Last Edit: May 02, 2016, 01:09:22 AM by Tom Bishop »

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Offline Rama Set

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Re: Teachers deserve low pay
« Reply #43 on: May 02, 2016, 12:39:47 AM »
Can you explain why teaching children is bad?
Th*rk is the worst person on this website.

Re: Teachers deserve low pay
« Reply #44 on: May 02, 2016, 12:57:12 AM »
hey check it out tom found a website that talks about teaching and research

CASE CLOSED, LOSERS
I have visited from prestigious research institutions of the highest caliber, to which only our administrator holds with confidence.

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Teachers deserve low pay
« Reply #45 on: May 02, 2016, 01:21:15 AM »
Can you explain why teaching children is bad?

It's not bad. It's just not all that deserving of high pay like many teachers want. You probably took algebra in school. Do you deserve a high salary just because you are repeating what you know to some children and having them do some homework from the book and an exam from the publisher?

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Offline Rama Set

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Re: Teachers deserve low pay
« Reply #46 on: May 02, 2016, 02:29:00 AM »
Can you explain why teaching children is bad?

It's not bad. It's just not all that deserving of high pay like many teachers want. You probably took algebra in school. Do you deserve a high salary just because you are repeating what you know to some children and having them do some homework from the book and an exam from the publisher?

What is a "high salary"?
Th*rk is the worst person on this website.

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Offline junker

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Teachers deserve low pay
« Reply #47 on: May 02, 2016, 02:33:25 AM »
What is considered "high-salary?"

EDIT: Rama gets it...
« Last Edit: May 02, 2016, 02:55:48 AM by junker »

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Teachers deserve low pay
« Reply #48 on: May 02, 2016, 05:31:54 AM »
Can you explain why teaching children is bad?

It's not bad. It's just not all that deserving of high pay like many teachers want. You probably took algebra in school. Do you deserve a high salary just because you are repeating what you know to some children and having them do some homework from the book and an exam from the publisher?

What is a "high salary"?

That question is location specific.

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Offline Rama Set

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Re: Teachers deserve low pay
« Reply #49 on: May 02, 2016, 05:44:04 AM »
Can you explain why teaching children is bad?

It's not bad. It's just not all that deserving of high pay like many teachers want. You probably took algebra in school. Do you deserve a high salary just because you are repeating what you know to some children and having them do some homework from the book and an exam from the publisher?

What is a "high salary"?

That question is location specific.

Why did you bring it up then?  I can tell you I looked at the starting salary and the average salary for a teacher with 15 years experience in the USA in 2012 and I can tell you that there are very places in the USA where the salary would be considered "high".  Decent is a more apt word I think.

Th*rk is the worst person on this website.

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Teachers deserve low pay
« Reply #50 on: May 02, 2016, 01:30:02 PM »
Can you explain why teaching children is bad?

It's not bad. It's just not all that deserving of high pay like many teachers want. You probably took algebra in school. Do you deserve a high salary just because you are repeating what you know to some children and having them do some homework from the book and an exam from the publisher?

What is a "high salary"?

That question is location specific.

Why did you bring it up then?  I can tell you I looked at the starting salary and the average salary for a teacher with 15 years experience in the USA in 2012 and I can tell you that there are very places in the USA where the salary would be considered "high".  Decent is a more apt word I think.

I didn't mean to suggest that they are getting high salaries, only that they do not deserve one for such menial work.

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Offline Rama Set

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Re: Teachers deserve low pay
« Reply #51 on: May 02, 2016, 01:54:33 PM »
Menial?  What do you actually know about the skills that are required to be a good teacher?
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Offline Pete Svarrior

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Re: Teachers deserve low pay
« Reply #52 on: May 02, 2016, 02:06:07 PM »
Professors take jobs at universities primarily to teach, not do research. [...] No one goes into professorship because of the research.
I'm sorry, but you're simply incorrect on that matter. A false premise spawns untestable conclusions.
Read the FAQ before asking your question - chances are we already addressed it.
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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Teachers deserve low pay
« Reply #53 on: May 02, 2016, 02:31:39 PM »
Menial?  What do you actually know about the skills that are required to be a good teacher?

If it was such a desirable skill, why aren't teachers getting high salaries?

Professors take jobs at universities primarily to teach, not do research. [...] No one goes into professorship because of the research.
I'm sorry, but you're simply incorrect on that matter. A false premise spawns untestable conclusions.

My position was backed up with a source. They go into it for the teaching. Where is your source that the professors are going into professorship so they can make money for their universities with the research?

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Offline Rama Set

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Re: Teachers deserve low pay
« Reply #54 on: May 02, 2016, 02:52:06 PM »
Menial?  What do you actually know about the skills that are required to be a good teacher?

If it was such a desirable skill, why aren't teachers getting high salaries?

Because of reductionists like you? 
Th*rk is the worst person on this website.

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Teachers deserve low pay
« Reply #55 on: May 02, 2016, 03:40:32 PM »
Menial?  What do you actually know about the skills that are required to be a good teacher?

If it was such a desirable skill, why aren't teachers getting high salaries?

Because of reductionists like you?

I'm not going to pay you a high salary if all you can do is repeat the works of others to children.

Maybe if you were a professor-researcher juggling your time between teaching and making money for me with research, or if you were a pioneer in a new emerging field, you would get a little more. No other teachers are getting a high salary for repeating the work of others. Why should you?
« Last Edit: May 02, 2016, 03:53:18 PM by Tom Bishop »

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Offline xasop

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Re: Teachers deserve low pay
« Reply #56 on: May 02, 2016, 04:21:13 PM »
Maybe if you were a professor-researcher juggling your time between teaching and making money for me with research, or if you were a pioneer in a new emerging field, you would get a little more. No other teachers are getting a high salary for repeating the work of others. Why should you?

You are attempting to apply free market principles to a debate which cannot take place within the context of a free market.

If education were a truly free market, then teachers would get paid what they are worth, which would be determined by what parents are willing to pay for their children's education. What they "should" be paid would be immaterial.

On the other hand, if we are paying teachers based on what they "should" be paid, then we have already left the free market behind and started investing in children's education for reasons other than profit. You cannot judge a fair salary based on a profit motive in that scenario.
when you try to mock anyone while also running the flat earth society. Lol

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Teachers deserve low pay
« Reply #57 on: May 02, 2016, 04:54:41 PM »
Maybe if you were a professor-researcher juggling your time between teaching and making money for me with research, or if you were a pioneer in a new emerging field, you would get a little more. No other teachers are getting a high salary for repeating the work of others. Why should you?

You are attempting to apply free market principles to a debate which cannot take place within the context of a free market.

If education were a truly free market, then teachers would get paid what they are worth, which would be determined by what parents are willing to pay for their children's education. What they "should" be paid would be immaterial.

On the other hand, if we are paying teachers based on what they "should" be paid, then we have already left the free market behind and started investing in children's education for reasons other than profit. You cannot judge a fair salary based on a profit motive in that scenario.

There are such a thing as private schools. Teachers still aren't highly paid. In fact, they often get paid less at a private school.

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Offline Rama Set

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Re: Teachers deserve low pay
« Reply #58 on: May 02, 2016, 05:02:53 PM »
Menial?  What do you actually know about the skills that are required to be a good teacher?

If it was such a desirable skill, why aren't teachers getting high salaries?

Because of reductionists like you?

I'm not going to pay you a high salary if all you can do is repeat the works of others to children.

Maybe if you were a professor-researcher juggling your time between teaching and making money for me with research, or if you were a pioneer in a new emerging field, you would get a little more. No other teachers are getting a high salary for repeating the work of others. Why should you?

What is this red herring you are sabotaging your own debate with?  Teachers by and large are not highly paid, and it is not particularly relevant to the OP, yet you keep bringing it up like it is relevant.  What point are you trying to make?
Th*rk is the worst person on this website.

Saddam Hussein

Re: Teachers deserve low pay
« Reply #59 on: May 02, 2016, 05:12:31 PM »
Teachers deserve low pay because they make low pay.