Do my eyes deceive me
« on: June 18, 2018, 08:29:51 AM »
A common criticism of those proposing that the Earth is round using established scientific 'theories' is that the proposer has not themselves gathered the data or done the data processing to prove the theory works.

So, 3 years ago I started a school club with the sole aim of putting a balloon into 'near space', which is defined as above 100 000ft. Last July (2017) we succeeded in our mission using a Raspberry Pi computer controlling a range of devices including an onboard camera that sent images back via radio linkup.

The images clearly showed the curvature of the earth.

There are no optical effects or aberrations that can explain the same view in every picture at almost every angle in a 360 degree vista. The field of view took in a vast swathe of England from the Wash towards London on the South East.

Care to comment?

(p.s I can provide on board footage of the myself and the team receding from view underneath the balloon using a secondary go-pro camera to prove I have not downloaded the images off the internet. I can also provide full telemetry data as well as pressure, temperature, humidity and magnetometer data.)

Re: Do my eyes deceive me
« Reply #1 on: June 18, 2018, 01:07:42 PM »
https://wiki.tfes.org/High_Altitude_Photographs

Basically: Yeah, you should totally see a curve from a high altitude photograph. That's the shape the sun spotlight takes.

Re: Do my eyes deceive me
« Reply #2 on: June 18, 2018, 01:19:24 PM »
are you going to provide the photos to review?  not sure why you would go thru all the effort to post this without photos?  ???
Quote from: SiDawg
Planes fall out of the sky all the time

Re: Do my eyes deceive me
« Reply #3 on: June 18, 2018, 03:39:55 PM »
https://wiki.tfes.org/High_Altitude_Photographs

Basically: Yeah, you should totally see a curve from a high altitude photograph. That's the shape the sun spotlight takes.

Curious squirrel,

I reviewed the explanation in the link you gave. I have a few questions and I think it would be best to number them very exactly and deal with them one by one. That would be the scientific way to proceed with this.

Q1. If the curvature is an optical effect caused by the observer seeing the edges of the circular light cast by the 'spotlight' sun, that implies that the limits of that light need to be in view? Y/N
(i.e. The effect would not be observable for anyone who could not see the shape of the light being cast.)

Q2. Now let us say for example that the area of light was so great that for a particular observer only lit areas could be seen. Well then it would be impossible for any 'shape of light' effect to be seen? Y/N

Q3. Given that this is impossible for the model to work it must be the case that the illuminated area is far smaller than the total surface area of the Earth and that any given observer is always able to see the edge of the suns projected spotlight? Y/N

Q4. If this is true it must mean that vast areas of the Earth's surface are in darkness while only a relatively small area is in light? Y/N

Q5. If we sum the daylight hours over a full year at any given location there is as much light (day) as there is night (dark) with only minor fluctuations depending on the latitude? Y/N

Q6. Q4 and Q5 are irreconcilable? Y/N

Q7. In addition, it stands to reason that for an spherical light shining on the Earth there would be some observers in the middle of the light zone, some on the edge, some outside and people at every area in between? Y/N

Q8. The edge of a spherical ellipse when viewed from different distances would appear to have different curvatures? Y/N
(The easiest way to visualize this is to picture yourself in the center of a circular hall. All the walls would appear equally circular. Then picture yourself up against one wall. The curve here would seem very pronounced. Looking back over your shoulder the far wall would appear relatively flat).

Q9. Actual observations of the horizon from balloons show a completely uniform curvature from all observation points and altitudes? Y/N

Q10. Qs 8 & 9 are irreconcilable? Y/N


Quote
We can confirm that we are looking down at the sun's circle of light upon the earth by noting that shots from amateur high altitude balloons show an elliptical horizon. If the earth were a globe, curving downwards in three dimensions, all curvature seen in photographs would appear as an arc of a circle. However, curvature does not appear as an arc of a circle.

First of all, just for clarity we need to better define the terms circle and ellipse. A circle actually is an ellipse. A special case where both foci are at the same point. For an ellipse the total distance from any two foci to the ellipse edge is equal. But essentially an ellipse is a squished circle with two flat regions and two pointy regions.

http://www.qrg.northwestern.edu/projects/vss/docs/space-environment/2-how-ellipse-is-different.html

It is not clear why the source you linked to states that the horizon is elliptical. It is not. I challenge you to find any measurements that would confirm this statement. It is an arc of a circle. For such a fundamental assertion to be made that flies in the face of the mainstream one would think there would be some reference to recorded data and associated calculations. The cynic in me wonders if the author simply hoped that people would understand ellipses look flatter and that superficially this matches how the Earth's horizon looks. This is beyond dumb and absolutely refutable and testable in more ways than it is possible to mention.

Here is a geometrical treatment of the circular arc of the Earth's curvature. It assumes a basic understanding of high school geometry. Sin and Cosine rule, that sort of thing. This is a good place to start for a proper understanding of what a circular arc looks like and how to test the data mathematically.

https://chizzlewit.wordpress.com/2015/05/13/working-with-the-curvaure-of-a-spherical-earth/

Re: Do my eyes deceive me
« Reply #4 on: June 24, 2018, 04:57:30 PM »
are you going to provide the photos to review?  not sure why you would go thru all the effort to post this without photos?  ???
I'd love to see your footage too. I have no doubt of it, but I like watching those.

Re: Do my eyes deceive me
« Reply #5 on: June 24, 2018, 11:31:46 PM »
are you going to provide the photos to review?  not sure why you would go thru all the effort to post this without photos?  ???
I'd love to see your footage too. I have no doubt of it, but I like watching those.
I already asked as well, and nothing.  Why start a post saying you have photos and then provide nothing....
Quote from: SiDawg
Planes fall out of the sky all the time

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Re: Do my eyes deceive me
« Reply #6 on: June 24, 2018, 11:51:39 PM »
There's already thousands of video and photos showing a curved earth, I'd imagine the argument will progress like this: "You can't show me the photos therefore you're wrong"... "Oh you've sent photos, they're fake" or "it's a fisheye lens"
Quote from: Round Eyes
Long range, high altitude, potentially solar powered airplanes [...] If the planes are travelling approx 15 miles about earth, that works out to around 2,200 mph, or Mach 3

Re: Do my eyes deceive me
« Reply #7 on: June 25, 2018, 12:33:25 AM »
There's already thousands of video and photos showing a curved earth, I'd imagine the argument will progress like this: "You can't show me the photos therefore you're wrong"... "Oh you've sent photos, they're fake" or "it's a fisheye lens"

Actually, no.  Read his post, clearly says he can provide videos of the build, launch, etc.  Went out his way to say how he did all this stuff himself... Then doesn't provide.  Why say any of that and not provide, unless he's just a liar.

He also says in other posts that he teaches physics, but at the beginning of this thread says he launched a balloon when he was in school 3 years ago.  Based on his lack of understanding and constant errors, guessing he was a high school student.

The non-truth meter with this guy is off the charts
« Last Edit: June 25, 2018, 12:37:16 AM by Round Eyes »
Quote from: SiDawg
Planes fall out of the sky all the time

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Re: Do my eyes deceive me
« Reply #8 on: June 25, 2018, 08:51:02 AM »
There's already thousands of video and photos showing a curved earth, I'd imagine the argument will progress like this: "You can't show me the photos therefore you're wrong"... "Oh you've sent photos, they're fake" or "it's a fisheye lens"

Actually, no.  Read his post, clearly says he can provide videos of the build, launch, etc.  Went out his way to say how he did all this stuff himself... Then doesn't provide.  Why say any of that and not provide, unless he's just a liar.

He also says in other posts that he teaches physics, but at the beginning of this thread says he launched a balloon when he was in school 3 years ago.  Based on his lack of understanding and constant errors, guessing he was a high school student.

The non-truth meter with this guy is off the charts

What he actually said was
Quote
Incidentally I recently put a balloon into near space orbit (>100 000ft) for a school club experiment. It took me a year, cost £1200 and 2 day school trip to a suitable launch site. We used a Go-pro (which has a fish eye lens so has artificial curvature) but also a Raspberry Pi to take photos. If any FE would like to see the results including launch day footage and other recorded data I would be glad to furnish this. I guarantee I am a real person and the geeky boys jumping around shrieking with delight are not actors but just normal (well, maybe 'normal' is a stretch!) pupils. you can see the Earth's horizon.....drum roll......AND IT AIN'T FLAT!!!
Now if you are going to call my boys liars and challenge their conclusion that the Earth ain't flat, be my guest. I'll put you in touch. They won't hold back. (they can be aggressive about their science when they are told they got it wrong!)

I don't know enough physics to know whether he is genuine, but his command of English and knowledge of the history of science (in which I am a specialist, with published work) seems strong.

Re: Do my eyes deceive me
« Reply #9 on: June 25, 2018, 10:45:11 AM »
There's already thousands of video and photos showing a curved earth, I'd imagine the argument will progress like this: "You can't show me the photos therefore you're wrong"... "Oh you've sent photos, they're fake" or "it's a fisheye lens"

Actually, no.  Read his post, clearly says he can provide videos of the build, launch, etc.  Went out his way to say how he did all this stuff himself... Then doesn't provide.  Why say any of that and not provide, unless he's just a liar.

He also says in other posts that he teaches physics, but at the beginning of this thread says he launched a balloon when he was in school 3 years ago.  Based on his lack of understanding and constant errors, guessing he was a high school student.

The non-truth meter with this guy is off the charts

What he actually said was
Quote
Incidentally I recently put a balloon into near space orbit (>100 000ft) for a school club experiment. It took me a year, cost £1200 and 2 day school trip to a suitable launch site. We used a Go-pro (which has a fish eye lens so has artificial curvature) but also a Raspberry Pi to take photos. If any FE would like to see the results including launch day footage and other recorded data I would be glad to furnish this. I guarantee I am a real person and the geeky boys jumping around shrieking with delight are not actors but just normal (well, maybe 'normal' is a stretch!) pupils. you can see the Earth's horizon.....drum roll......AND IT AIN'T FLAT!!!
Now if you are going to call my boys liars and challenge their conclusion that the Earth ain't flat, be my guest. I'll put you in touch. They won't hold back. (they can be aggressive about their science when they are told they got it wrong!)

I don't know enough physics to know whether he is genuine, but his command of English and knowledge of the history of science (in which I am a specialist, with published work) seems strong.

You missed this post of his post, pretty clear and g never provided :

(p.s I can provide on board footage of the myself and the team receding from view underneath the balloon using a secondary go-pro camera to prove I have not downloaded the images off the internet. I can also provide full telemetry data as well as pressure, temperature, humidity and magnetometer data.)
« Last Edit: June 26, 2018, 12:18:10 PM by Round Eyes »
Quote from: SiDawg
Planes fall out of the sky all the time

Re: Do my eyes deceive me
« Reply #10 on: June 30, 2018, 05:07:47 PM »
Hi folks,

sorry for my 'absence'. I was banned for posting 'low content'......I suppose I should try to return with a bang by making my first post back some actual evidence of the RE.

The problem I had was that in moving to my new school this year I seem to have lost the original data dump for the balloon project. It was on a pendrive that was only a temporary backup. I have been in touch with my old colleague who is still in touch with several of the pupils involved in the project but he was unable to contact the main pupil who became the custodian for the original data. Schools are on holiday now so I will have to reach out via an indirect contact. I will get the pics.

In the meantime I have some lovely pics of me and the RE taken using a GoPro. Just to prove we did actually do the project. The problem of course is that the GoPro has inbuilt curvature so will not be admissable in the 'court of FE'! The Raspberry Pi pics are part of the original data set that I will hopefully retrieve shortly.

So, be patient. I am not a liar. Perhaps a little disorganised? I didn't think I would ever need the entire 6000+ photo haul in the near future. I was happy to have the GoPro pics. They are lovely and in HD.

My colleague recently put a similar balloon into near space and beat my altitude by some 5000ft to reach 117 519ft. Unfortunately only 2 of her 5 cameras worked. Both were GoPro's. I will reach out to my old contacts on the High Altitude Balloon forum and I am sure there will be plenty of offers of pics taken with a variety of cameras. It is a reasonably common hobby with many active balloonists organising several flights per year. It will not be hard to gain access to pics of the Earth with a clear curvature shown.

Re: Do my eyes deceive me
« Reply #11 on: June 30, 2018, 05:11:11 PM »
and airborne....~100ft?

Re: Do my eyes deceive me
« Reply #12 on: June 30, 2018, 05:13:18 PM »
Leicester from god knows what height.....

Re: Do my eyes deceive me
« Reply #13 on: June 30, 2018, 05:17:13 PM »
You can see 'The Wash' and the sweep of England's South East coast. This image is close to 100 000ft.
« Last Edit: June 30, 2018, 05:20:38 PM by lookatmooninUKthenAUS »

Re: Do my eyes deceive me
« Reply #14 on: June 30, 2018, 05:20:06 PM »
And finally, the money shot. Balloon pops at about 112 000ft.

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Offline juner

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Re: Do my eyes deceive me
« Reply #15 on: June 30, 2018, 05:40:11 PM »
Heyo, maybe upload them to an image host and include them all in one post.


Leicester from god knows what height.....
Can really see the curve in this post. Maybe RE was right.

Re: Do my eyes deceive me
« Reply #16 on: June 30, 2018, 05:41:11 PM »
More pics to follow......

Now something else occurs to me while reviewing these pics.

I was upon joining this website guided to the book and video 'Earth not a globe'. While I have not yet read the book I did watch the hour long youtube film of the same name. I will try to refrain from hyperbole should it be deemed 'low content', suffice to say the problem with the assertions in this film is that each one gets some very, very fundamental science wrong in the opening sentences.

One such clanger is the idea that jet planes clearly indicate the RE model is wrong due to the lack of relative motion observed. i.e. if a jet flies West towards New York from London then the Earth should be zooming round underneath at several hundred miles an hour, thus making the journey much shorter. This is a perfect example illustrating how a lack of fundamental science understanding can lead to terrible misconceptions. The reality is that the Earth's atmosphere is coupled to the surface by friction. The atmosphere, in effect, moves with the Earth although this coupling reduces as altitude increases. The picture is however not even that simple as the atmospheres complex system of currents creates different strata that move at greatly different velocities, sometimes in opposition to the Earths motion and sometimes with it. In short, the picture is not simple. That is why climate science is a very difficult thing to master. Very, very, very big computers are employed to try and understand the details of its evolution but the general trends are predictable and can be relied on. Our ancestors understood this and made use of the trade winds to navigate and reach new continents. Wind and weather are actually one of the very best proofs of the rotating motion of our planet as the cyclic nature of weather systems attest.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cLTF4-D4EXs  - see from about 20 mins in.

However, this only now brings me to my point. If FE science models that moving from the Earth's surface separates you from it, then how come the constant upward acceleration doesn't eat up the distance travelled by an ascending balloon? The reason of course is that the balloon is coupled in a different way, it is experiencing upthrust caused by the displaced air. A different type of force to friction but a force nonetheless that explains what we actually see. Simple yes?
« Last Edit: June 30, 2018, 06:02:28 PM by lookatmooninUKthenAUS »