[Tom Bishop]

Might makes right, does it?  Well, never underestimate the “weaker” country.  Ukraine has been doing a pretty good job of holding its own against Russia for three years longer than anyone, especially Putin, expected.

This is incorrect, they did not hold their own. I don't think you understand the meaning of "holding its own".

That remains to be seen. Ukraine's strength, in part, comes from soft power - something Russia sorely lacks. It has allies, and some of them haven't even betrayed it out of cowardice. Making a reliable comparison between the two will likely not be possible for a few decades... unless Russia suddenly collapses on itself.

Those are clients, not allies. Allies in a military alliance help each other directly in battle when they are attacked, an example being the NATO military alliance. Over the past several years Ukraine was begging for direct participation from western powers, but was refused at every turn. Only money and equipment were provided, skirting around the alliance issue.

Ukraine was despicably given a wad of cash and was told to sacrifice its people to fight a war for others, the benefactor countries being unwilling to fight themselves. Because of this, we now have an entire generation of Ukrainian men which have been nearly erased and Ukrainian families in untold suffering, all while the benefactor countries remain unharmed and safe, fat and happy.

This is terrible and unjust, to say the least. Luckily for the people of Ukraine Trump was willing to step up once he became president and halt the US military aid to the mercenary government. If you want a war fought you should do it yourself, not send some third world backwater country to fight your battles and die for you.

You... You think rubber pads will help against weight?  Really?
You do know DC is literally built on swamp land, yes?
Also, max weight limit for a city streets in the DC area is 20,000 lbs.
And M1 Abrams tank weights 125,000 lbs.  So you really think rolling a bunch of somethings 6 times the maximum weight is gonna be ok so long as you use rubber pads?  Really?

The 20,000 pound figure is the weight on one vehicle axle. See in that link "Weight on any one axle: 20,000 pounds". The weight of a tank is distributed over a wide area, allowing them to roam city streets with proper treads.

Tanks have paraded Washington DC a number of times, so I don't know why you guys are pretending that this is anything new.

[Lord Dave]

Might makes right, does it?  Well, never underestimate the “weaker” country.  Ukraine has been doing a pretty good job of holding its own against Russia for three years longer than anyone, especially Putin, expected.

This is incorrect, they did not hold their own. I don't think you understand the meaning of "holding its own".

That remains to be seen. Ukraine's strength, in part, comes from soft power - something Russia sorely lacks. It has allies, and some of them haven't even betrayed it out of cowardice. Making a reliable comparison between the two will likely not be possible for a few decades... unless Russia suddenly collapses on itself.

Those are clients, not allies. Allies in a military alliance help each other directly in battle when they are attacked, an example being the NATO military alliance. Over the past several years Ukraine was begging for direct participation from western powers, but was refused at every turn. Only money and equipment were provided, skirting around the alliance issue.

Ukraine was despicably given a wad of cash and was told to sacrifice its people to fight a war for others, the benefactor countries being unwilling to fight themselves. Because of this, we now have an entire generation of Ukrainian men which have been nearly erased and Ukrainian families in untold suffering, all while the benefactor countries remain unharmed and safe, fat and happy.

This is terrible and unjust, to say the least. Luckily for the people of Ukraine Trump was willing to step up once he became president and halt the US military aid to the mercenary government. If you want a war fought you should do it yourself, not send some third world backwater country to fight your battles and die for you.

You... You think rubber pads will help against weight?  Really?
You do know DC is literally built on swamp land, yes?
Also, max weight limit for a city streets in the DC area is 20,000 lbs.
And M1 Abrams tank weights 125,000 lbs.  So you really think rolling a bunch of somethings 6 times the maximum weight is gonna be ok so long as you use rubber pads?  Really?

The 20,000 pound figure is the weight on one vehicle axle. See in that link "Weight on any one axle: 20,000 pounds". The weight of a tank is distributed over a wide area, allowing them to roam city streets with proper treads.

Tanks have paraded Washington DC a number of times, so I don't know why you guys are pretending that this is anything new.

Troops would mean we are now an active military target. Ie. The US/EUgoes to war with Russia.  A step we probably should have taken but it could have led to WW3.

As for the streets:
You are correct: Per Axel.  Tanks don't have axels so the weight is distributed across the whole tread.  But that being said, it's still 50% over the gross weight limit.

Gross vehicle weight: 80,000 pounds
Weight on any one axle: 20,000 pounds
Weight on any two consecutive axles less than 10 feet apart: 34,000 pounds


As for "from before"
Yes.  And much more recently.
Still caused damage to the roads.  And with Trump trying to save money .. this seems like an unneeded expense.

[Tom Bishop]

Troops would mean we are now an active military target. Ie. The US/EUgoes to war with Russia.  A step we probably should have taken but it could have led to WW3.

Russia stated that they wouldn't be in Ukraine if Ukraine was in NATO, so Ukraine having actual allies would have solved the problem without WW3. Russia already has NATO allies which share its border, and this would have been another one. Unfortunately NATO members did not care enough about Ukraine to be its ally, leaving them to the slaughter as they stood around watching and virtue signaling in limited support. The problem with Ukraine was its lack of allies.

As for the streets:
You are correct: Per Axel.  Tanks don't have axels so the weight is distributed across the whole tread.  But that being said, it's still 50% over the gross weight limit.

Gross vehicle weight: 80,000 pounds
Weight on any one axle: 20,000 pounds
Weight on any two consecutive axles less than 10 feet apart: 34,000 pounds

It also says in the link in the text below that section that if the vehicle weighs more to contact them for a permit:

"Any vehicles exceeding these restrictions require an oversize/overweight vehicle permit to travel within the District of Columbia."

So it doesn't appear to be a hard limit.

[Lord Dave]

Troops would mean we are now an active military target. Ie. The US/EUgoes to war with Russia.  A step we probably should have taken but it could have led to WW3.

Russia stated that they wouldn't be in Ukraine if Ukraine was in NATO, so Ukraine having actual allies would have solved the problem without WW3. Russia already has NATO allies which share its border, and this would have been another one. Unfortunately NATO members did not care enough about Ukraine to be its ally, leaving them to the slaughter as they stood around watching and virtue signaling in limited support. The problem with Ukraine was its lack of allies.

Nice doublespeak.
"Russia doesn't want Ukraine in NATO but wouldn't have done anything if they were in NATO." Speaks volumes.  Means that NATO membership would have done exactly what Ukraine wanted: protection from invasion.  Which is why Putin invaded to stop it: because he wanted to take the nation.

As for the streets:
You are correct: Per Axel.  Tanks don't have axels so the weight is distributed across the whole tread.  But that being said, it's still 50% over the gross weight limit.

Gross vehicle weight: 80,000 pounds
Weight on any one axle: 20,000 pounds
Weight on any two consecutive axles less than 10 feet apart: 34,000 pounds

It also says in the link in the text below that section that if the vehicle weighs more to contact them for a permit:

"Any vehicles exceeding these restrictions require an oversize/overweight vehicle permit to travel within the District of Columbia."

So it doesn't appear to be a hard limit.

Sure but it gives an idea of the normal wear and tear limit.  Which means anything over has a chance of causing damage with prolonged use.  Like say... A column of tanks.  Which is what happened every time.

[AATW]

Reporter: "When dees it become the Trump economy?"

Trump: "It partially is right now. And I really mean this I think the good parts are the Trump economy and the bad parts are the Biden economy"

lol

[Lord Dave]

Reporter: "When dees it become the Trump economy?"

Trump: "It partially is right now. And I really mean this I think the good parts are the Trump economy and the bad parts are the Biden economy"

lol

I mean.. that is Trump.  What is good, is his doing.  What's bad is someone else's fault.  Man has never admitted to losing or making a mistake.

[AATW]

Reporter: "When dees it become the Trump economy?"

Trump: "It partially is right now. And I really mean this I think the good parts are the Trump economy and the bad parts are the Biden economy"

lol

I mean.. that is Trump.  What is good, is his doing.  What's bad is someone else's fault.  Man has never admitted to losing or making a mistake.

The buck stops literally anywhere else but here.

He is beyond parody. It’s a quote which wouldn’t look out of place on SNL.

[markjo]

The buck stops literally anywhere else but here.

Incorrect.  The buck stops in his wallet.

[Lord Dave]

Reporter: "When dees it become the Trump economy?"

Trump: "It partially is right now. And I really mean this I think the good parts are the Trump economy and the bad parts are the Biden economy"

lol

I mean.. that is Trump.  What is good, is his doing.  What's bad is someone else's fault.  Man has never admitted to losing or making a mistake.

The buck stops literally anywhere else but here.

He is beyond parody. It’s a quote which wouldn’t look out of place on SNL.

It would.  They have good writers. This isn't even good comedy or parody. 


In other news...
Trump thinks Lybia is a great place to send latin american migrants.
https://www.npr.org/2025/05/07/nx-s1-5389739/libya-immigration-crackdown-trump-deportations

[Tom Bishop]

The problem with the criticism and why it goes nowhere is because Trump has a background as a reality television comedian star, and therefore it is water off the duck's back. He has been trolling you for years, this entire time. This is why Trump can do and say things that are career ending for traditional politicians, and even get more popular for it. Your attacks are powerless against this.

[Lord Dave]

The problem with the criticism and why it goes nowhere is because Trump has a background as a reality television comedian star, and therefore it is water off the duck's back. He has been trolling you for years, this entire time. This is why Trump can do and say things that are career ending for traditional politicians, and even get more popular for it. Your attacks are powerless against this.

And yet, he lashes out at anyone who criticizes him.  News agency says he's doing bad things?  Attack!  Law firm argues a court case against him?  Attack!  Neighboring country he things is mocking him?  Attack.

His seemingly immunity to career ending actions is simply because he is, as you said, a star.  He's popular.  He says the right things to make his base love him with a passion.  He's the kind of person who oversimplifies a situation, promises big, and forces himself upon everything.  He's the authoritarian dictator a good portion of America wants.  He's ruthless.  He's relentless.  He blames everyone else.  And he acts tough.

[DuncanDoenitz]

His seemingly immunity to career ending actions is simply because he is, as you said, a star.  He's popular.  He says the right things to make his base love him with a passion.  He's the kind of person who oversimplifies a situation, promises big, and forces himself upon everything.  He's the authoritarian dictator a good portion of America wants.  He's ruthless.  He's relentless.  He blames everyone else.  And he acts tough.

And there, Ladies and Gentlemen, you have the quandry. 

Anyone on this thread; LD, Markjo, AATW, me, Tom or A80 could have written that quote and believed it.  The only differance is that Tom and A80 think that these are good attributes. 

[honk]

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/trump-crypto-dinner-ethics-b2745231.html

The president should not be in business for themselves while in office. No politician should, really, but especially not the president. This should not be a controversial opinion.

[Tom Bishop]

No politician should

Again, this is the issue. He's not a traditional politician, so he doesn't play by those rules. He is a television star and world famous comedic personality whose running theme is that he runs businesses and makes money, so he can get rich off of his crypto business and meme coins if he wants to.

You may as well argue that if Elvis were elected President that he shouldn't continue to sing in concerts, but those arguments will obviously not go far in the realm of public opinion if President Elvis Presley wanted to lead in a concert. Your social expectations of a traditional president would mean nothing, and they mean nothing here with Trump.

[Lord Dave]

And thus Tom is now fully in the  "The President should be able to be corrupt if he wants to" mindset.

[AATW]

No politician should

Again, this is the issue. He's not a traditional politician, so he doesn't play by those rules. He is a television star and world famous comedic personality whose running theme is that he runs businesses and makes money, so he can get rich off of his crypto business and meme coins if he wants to.

You may as well argue that if Elvis were elected President that he shouldn't continue to sing in concerts, but those arguments will obviously not go far in the realm of public opinion if President Elvis Presley wanted to lead in a concert. Your social expectations of a traditional president would mean nothing, and they mean nothing here with Trump.

Up to a point. Zelensky was a comedian before he went in to politics. I don't think the people of Ukraine elected him and then expected him to go on another standup tour or launch a new TV comedy series. Whatever background someone has, you elect someone to run the country, not to enrich themselves.

[Tom Bishop]

Up to a point. Zelensky was a comedian before he went in to politics. I don't think the people of Ukraine elected him and then expected him to go on another standup tour or launch a new TV comedy series. Whatever background someone has, you elect someone to run the country, not to enrich themselves.

Actually Zelensky proves that the rules of traditional politics don't apply to stars. There is a video segment of Zelensky playing the piano with his testicles in front of an audience. If a traditional politician went on stage and did it, or if previously filmed segment was uncovered and publicized as they were campaigning, this would be campaign ending for them. For a traditional politician a video of them pants down in front of a piano would be professionally embarrassing and they would have to resign or get rejected by their party. Zelensky got away with it because he was a media and comedic star, and his antics even gained him popularity.

Zelensky may not be using humor anymore in his role as president, but if he had continued with it he would assuredly get away with a lot.

[AATW]

Up to a point. Zelensky was a comedian before he went in to politics. I don't think the people of Ukraine elected him and then expected him to go on another standup tour or launch a new TV comedy series. Whatever background someone has, you elect someone to run the country, not to enrich themselves.

Actually Zelensky proves that the rules of traditional politics don't apply to stars. There is a video segment of Zelensky playing the piano with his testicles in front of an audience. If a traditional politician went on stage and did it, or if previously filmed segment was uncovered and publicized as they were campaigning, this would be career ending for them. For a traditional politician a video of them pants down in front of a piano would be professionally embarrassing and they would get rejected by their party, or they would have to resign. Zelensky got away with it because he was a media and comedic star, and his antics even gained him popularity.

Zelensky may not be using humor anymore in his role as president, but if he had continued with it he would assuredly get away with a lot.

There is something in what you're saying.
But there's a difference between Zelensky using humour in his speeches - which many politicians do anyway (often with...mixed results) and him launching a new comedy show or stand up tour. If he did those things I suspect there would be a feeling of "shouldn't you be running the country?"

You are right that Trump gets away with stuff which other politicians wouldn't. I just don't see that as a good thing. I'd prefer leaders to have integrity.

[markjo]

No politician should

Again, this is the issue. He's not a traditional politician, so he doesn't play by those rules. He is a television star and world famous comedic personality whose running theme is that he runs businesses and makes money, so he can get rich off of his crypto business and meme coins if he wants to.

Hmmm…  I seem to remember a whole lot controversy over some alleged corruption in the Biden family that never really panned out.  The conversation seems to be a much different with the brazen level of corruption that Trump fans seem to be applauding. 

[Tom Bishop]

But there's a difference between Zelensky using humour in his speeches - which many politicians do anyway (often with...mixed results) and him launching a new comedy show or stand up tour. If he did those things I suspect there would be a feeling of "shouldn't you be running the country?"

I bet Zelensky could launch a new comedy show or stand up tour as he was president. It's hard to prove that he's not running the country, and everything is arguably delegable. His supporters would just argue that he's providing important social commentary in his role of communicator, and justify it completely. After all, a comedic social communicator is who they wanted as president.

More directly, if as Ukrainian President Zelensky went on stage and did the bit where he plays the piano with his testicles again, no one would bat an eye. He would lose no popularity, simply because that is the person they voted for. They would clap and call it hilarious.