The Flat Earth Society
Flat Earth Discussion Boards => Flat Earth Theory => Topic started by: geckothegeek on November 27, 2015, 05:21:32 AM
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If the earth was flat, you could see Great Britain from New York with a powerful enough telescope with the right equipment. The old flat earth response of the the "dense -quote- "atmoplane" - unquote - could even be de-bunked with the use of infra-red film and filters in common use by amateur and professional photographers. Electronic telescopes could even be used to eliminate the -quote-"atmoplanic"-unquote- conditions.
Survivors of the Titanic disaster reported seeing stars rising and setting on the horizon.
And they were in lifeboats at practically sea level and looking through the thickest layer of the atmosphere at the stars -many of them distances in the light years away.
I used the words "atmoplane" and "atmoplanic". They are "red underlined" by "spell check" because they are not real words. You see them only used by flat earthers instead of "atmosphere" and "atmospheric. " One more flaw in the flat earth fallacy.
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The reflector telescope has been used by Mrs. Kerry-Ann Lecky Hepburn from Grimsby to prove that the Earth is flat.
http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=61856.msg1624868#msg1624868 (Oshawa seen from Grimsby, 97 km distance)
http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=30499.msg1616955#msg1616955 (Toronto seen from Grimsby, 55 km distance)
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Thanks , sandokhan. I just posted this to see what the flat earthers would come up with next. It is a great source of entertainment. From viewers like us. Thank You !
But the plain fact that you can't see Great Britain from New York is simple. You can deny all facts and reality all you want but the earth is a globe and that is the reason you can't see Great Britain from New York. We are speaking of several thousand miles. If you can see across a flat earth at some smaller distance, you should surely see across the ocean from any distance if the earth was flat. If the earth WAS flat, that is. Granted, after all, this is The Flat Earth Society Forum
website. ;D
If you really want to prove your point show us some pictures of Great Britain taken from New York....Sea level to sea level , that is. Or vice-versa from Great Britain to New York.
Waiting on those pictures. ::)
Back to the Titanic. If the earth was flat those survivors in the life boats would have seen the lights of Carpathia much earlier than they did. And the lookouts on Carpathia would have seen the lights on those life boats, too. They were only about 58 miles apart when the distress signals were first received on Carpathia.
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You posed a question: can one see Great Britain from New York?
Why not increase the difficulty of the problem: can Tunguska be seen from London?
Of course it can.
(https://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/582x643q90/203/l6sl.jpg)
JULY 1, 1908 LETTER SENT TO THE LONDON TIMES
http://www.nuforc.org/GNTungus.html
“TO THE EDITOR OF THE TIMES.”
“Sir,--I should be interested in hearing whether others of your readers observed the strange light in the sky which was seen here last night by my sister and myself. I do not know when it first appeared; we saw it between 12 o’clock (midnight) and 12:15 a.m. It was in the northeast and of a bright flame-colour like the light of sunrise or sunset. The sky, for some distance above the light, which appeared to be on the horizon, was blue as in the daytime, with bands of light cloud of a pinkish colour floating across it at intervals. Only the brightest stars could be seen in any part of the sky, though it was an almost cloudless night. It was possible to read large print indoors, and the hands of the clock in my room were quite distinct. An hour later, at about 1:30 a.m., the room was quite light, as if it had been day; the light in the sky was then more dispersed and was a fainter yellow. The whole effect was that of a night in Norway at about this time of year. I am in the habit of watching the sky, and have noticed the amount of light indoors at different hours of the night several times in the last fortnight. I have never at any time seen anything the least like this in England, and it would be interesting if any one would explain the cause of so unusual a sight.
Yours faithfully,
Katharine Stephen.
Godmanchester, Huntingdon, July 1.”
Let us remember that the first newspaper report about the explosion itself ONLY appeared on July 2, 1908 in the Sibir periodical.
A report from Berlin in the New York Times of July 3 stated: 'Remarkable lights were observed in the northern heavens on Tuesday and Wednesday nights, the bright diffused white and yellow illumination continuing through the night until it disappeared at dawn...'
On July 5, (1908) a New York Times story from Britain was entitled: 'Like Dawn at Midnight.' '...The northern sky at midnight became light blue, as if the dawn were breaking...people believed that a big fire was raging in the north of London...shortly after midnight, it was possible to read large print indoors...it would be interesting if anyone would explain the cause of so unusual a sight.'
The letter sent by Mrs. Katharine Stephen is absolutely genuine as it includes details NOBODY else knew at the time: not only the precise timing of the explosion itself (7:15 - 7:17 local time, 0:15 - 0:17 London time), BUT ALSO THE DURATION OF THE TRAJECTORY OF THE OBJECT, right before the explosion, a fact uncovered decades later only by the painstaking research of Dr. Felix Zigel, an aerodynamics professor at the Moscow Institute of Aviation:
The same opinion was reached by Felix Zigel, who as an aerodynamics professor at the Moscow Institute of Aviation has been involved in the training of many Soviet cosmonauts. His latest study of all the eyewitness and physical data convinced him that "before the blast the Tunguska body described in the atmosphere a tremendous arc of about 375 miles in extent (in azimuth)" - that is, it "carried out a maneuver." No natural object is capable of such a feat.
Manotskov decided that the 1908 object, on the other hand, had a far slower entry speed and that, nearing the earth, it reduced its speed to "0.7 kilometers per second, or 2,400 kilometers per hour" - less than half a mile per second.
375 miles = 600 km, or 15 minutes of flight time, given the speed exemplified above
I do not know when it first appeared; we saw it between 12 o’clock (midnight) and 12:15 a.m.
LeMaire maintains the "accident-explanation is untenable" because "the flaming object was being expertly navigated" using Lake Baikal as a reference point. Indeed, Lake Baikal is an ideal aerial navigation reference point being 400 miles long and about 35 miles wide. LeMaire's description of the course of the Tunguska object lends credence to the thought of expert navigation:
The body approached from the south, but when about 140 miles from the explosion point, while over Kezhma, it abruptly changed course to the east. Two hundred and fifty miles later, while above Preobrazhenka, it reversed its heading toward the west. It exploded above the taiga at 60º55' N, 101º57' E (LeMaire 1980).
(http://www.andras-nagy.com/ufo03/pic/p131.jpg)
The fight path of the cosmic object, as reconstructed from eyewitness testimony and ballistic wave evidence. Felix Zigel and other space experts agree that, prior to exploding, the object changed from an eastward to a westward direction over the Stony Tunguska region. The arc at the bottom of the map indicates the scope of the area where witnesses either saw the fiery object or heard the blast.
The information acquired by the Florensky and Zolotov expeditions about the ballistic shock effect on the trees provides a strong basis, in some scientists' view, for a reconstruction of an alteration in the object's line of flight. In the terminal phase of its descent, according to the most recent speculations, the object appears to have approached on an eastward course, then changed course westward over the region before exploding. The ballistic wave evidence, in fact, indicates that some type of flight correction was performed in the atmosphere.
UFOs/Jet aircrafts/V2 rockets were invented by the Vril society, only after 1936.
Tesla had a bold fantasy whereby he would use the principle of rarefied gas luminescence to light up the sky at night. High frequency electric energy would be transmitted, perhaps by an ionizing beam of ultraviolet radiation, into the upper atmosphere, where gases are at relatively low pressure, so that this layer would behave like a luminous tube. Sky lighting, he said, would reduce the need for street lighting, and facilitate the movement of ocean going vessels.
(http://www.phenomena.org.uk/features/page88/files/tunguska-3.jpg)
A photograph with an exposure time of 20 seconds taken at 10.50 p.m., July 1, 1908 by George Embrey of Gloucester.
The telluric currents/ether/subquark-magnetic monopoles strings transmitted the energy input from the Tesla ball lightning spheres which exploded over Siberia (Tunguska): this is how the bright luminescence in the night skies of Europe and Central Asia was created.
If the light from the Sun could not reach London due to curvature and/or any light reflection phenomena, then certainly NO LIGHT from an explosion which occurred at some 7 km altitude in the atmosphere could have been seen at all, at the same time, on a spherical earth.
Tunguska file:
http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php/topic,59690.msg1537115.html#msg1537115
http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=59690.msg1535846#msg1535846 (no comet, meteorite, or asteroid)
Tesla - Tunguska:
http://www.teslasociety.com/tunguska.htm
http://www.tfcbooks.com/articles/tunguska.htm
Geo-magnetic disturbances were already observed even before the explosion!!
Many years later, researchers from Tomsk came across a forgotten publication by a Professor Weber about a powerful geo-magnetic disturbance observed in a laboratory at Kiel University in Germany for three days before the intrusion of the Tunguska object, and which ended at the very hour when the gigantic bolide exploded above the Central Siberian Plateau.
Tesla experimented with the ball lightning ether for YEARS before the Tunguska event; from the Wardenclyffe tower he sent longitudinal waves for days BEFORE the event itself in order to carefully set up the experiment.
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I am not familiar with Tunguska, but if you will show me some pictures of Big Ben taken from Tunguska, I will be a believer. Of course there might be a few areas of obstruction in between, such as mountains, etc.
Even some pictures of the Eiffel Tower taken from London or pictures of Big Ben taken from Paris will do. This should be much easier. But I have never seen any pictures.
Or the shores of Lands Ends in the UK taken from the shores of Sandy Hook in the USA will do. This should present no problems if the earth WAS flat. There are no obstructions on a clear day - there is nothing between Sandy Hook and Lands End except the flat (?) ocean...maybe a few ships in the line of sight. With the advancement in optics , filters and other devices this would present no problems if the earth WAS flat. I should think that it should be the concern and responsibility of The Flat Earth Society to look into this matter and supply evidence to prove that the earth WAS flat. Flat earth answers as to why this has not been done would be interesting. This would be something for the tourist attractions at Lands End and/or Sandy Hook to look into the possibilities of installing telescopes for tourists to see America from England and/or England from America. It should be a great tourist attraction.
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You posed a question: can one see Great Britain from New York?
Why not increase the difficulty of the problem: can Tunguska be seen from London?
Of course it can.
(https://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/582x643q90/203/l6sl.jpg)
JULY 1, 1908 LETTER SENT TO THE LONDON TIMES
http://www.nuforc.org/GNTungus.html
“TO THE EDITOR OF THE TIMES.”
“Sir,--I should be interested in hearing whether others of your readers observed the strange light in the sky which was seen here last night by my sister and myself. I do not know when it first appeared; we saw it between 12 o’clock (midnight) and 12:15 a.m. It was in the northeast and of a bright flame-colour like the light of sunrise or sunset. The sky, for some distance above the light, which appeared to be on the horizon, was blue as in the daytime, with bands of light cloud of a pinkish colour floating across it at intervals. Only the brightest stars could be seen in any part of the sky, though it was an almost cloudless night. It was possible to read large print indoors, and the hands of the clock in my room were quite distinct. An hour later, at about 1:30 a.m., the room was quite light, as if it had been day; the light in the sky was then more dispersed and was a fainter yellow. The whole effect was that of a night in Norway at about this time of year. I am in the habit of watching the sky, and have noticed the amount of light indoors at different hours of the night several times in the last fortnight. I have never at any time seen anything the least like this in England, and it would be interesting if any one would explain the cause of so unusual a sight.
Yours faithfully,
Katharine Stephen.
Godmanchester, Huntingdon, July 1.”
Let us remember that the first newspaper report about the explosion itself ONLY appeared on July 2, 1908 in the Sibir periodical.
A report from Berlin in the New York Times of July 3 stated: 'Remarkable lights were observed in the northern heavens on Tuesday and Wednesday nights, the bright diffused white and yellow illumination continuing through the night until it disappeared at dawn...'
On July 5, (1908) a New York Times story from Britain was entitled: 'Like Dawn at Midnight.' '...The northern sky at midnight became light blue, as if the dawn were breaking...people believed that a big fire was raging in the north of London...shortly after midnight, it was possible to read large print indoors...it would be interesting if anyone would explain the cause of so unusual a sight.'
The letter sent by Mrs. Katharine Stephen is absolutely genuine as it includes details NOBODY else knew at the time: not only the precise timing of the explosion itself (7:15 - 7:17 local time, 0:15 - 0:17 London time), BUT ALSO THE DURATION OF THE TRAJECTORY OF THE OBJECT, right before the explosion, a fact uncovered decades later only by the painstaking research of Dr. Felix Zigel, an aerodynamics professor at the Moscow Institute of Aviation:
The same opinion was reached by Felix Zigel, who as an aerodynamics professor at the Moscow Institute of Aviation has been involved in the training of many Soviet cosmonauts. His latest study of all the eyewitness and physical data convinced him that "before the blast the Tunguska body described in the atmosphere a tremendous arc of about 375 miles in extent (in azimuth)" - that is, it "carried out a maneuver." No natural object is capable of such a feat.
Manotskov decided that the 1908 object, on the other hand, had a far slower entry speed and that, nearing the earth, it reduced its speed to "0.7 kilometers per second, or 2,400 kilometers per hour" - less than half a mile per second.
375 miles = 600 km, or 15 minutes of flight time, given the speed exemplified above
I do not know when it first appeared; we saw it between 12 o’clock (midnight) and 12:15 a.m.
LeMaire maintains the "accident-explanation is untenable" because "the flaming object was being expertly navigated" using Lake Baikal as a reference point. Indeed, Lake Baikal is an ideal aerial navigation reference point being 400 miles long and about 35 miles wide. LeMaire's description of the course of the Tunguska object lends credence to the thought of expert navigation:
The body approached from the south, but when about 140 miles from the explosion point, while over Kezhma, it abruptly changed course to the east. Two hundred and fifty miles later, while above Preobrazhenka, it reversed its heading toward the west. It exploded above the taiga at 60º55' N, 101º57' E (LeMaire 1980).
(http://www.andras-nagy.com/ufo03/pic/p131.jpg)
The fight path of the cosmic object, as reconstructed from eyewitness testimony and ballistic wave evidence. Felix Zigel and other space experts agree that, prior to exploding, the object changed from an eastward to a westward direction over the Stony Tunguska region. The arc at the bottom of the map indicates the scope of the area where witnesses either saw the fiery object or heard the blast.
The information acquired by the Florensky and Zolotov expeditions about the ballistic shock effect on the trees provides a strong basis, in some scientists' view, for a reconstruction of an alteration in the object's line of flight. In the terminal phase of its descent, according to the most recent speculations, the object appears to have approached on an eastward course, then changed course westward over the region before exploding. The ballistic wave evidence, in fact, indicates that some type of flight correction was performed in the atmosphere.
UFOs/Jet aircrafts/V2 rockets were invented by the Vril society, only after 1936.
Tesla had a bold fantasy whereby he would use the principle of rarefied gas luminescence to light up the sky at night. High frequency electric energy would be transmitted, perhaps by an ionizing beam of ultraviolet radiation, into the upper atmosphere, where gases are at relatively low pressure, so that this layer would behave like a luminous tube. Sky lighting, he said, would reduce the need for street lighting, and facilitate the movement of ocean going vessels.
(http://www.phenomena.org.uk/features/page88/files/tunguska-3.jpg)
A photograph with an exposure time of 20 seconds taken at 10.50 p.m., July 1, 1908 by George Embrey of Gloucester.
The telluric currents/ether/subquark-magnetic monopoles strings transmitted the energy input from the Tesla ball lightning spheres which exploded over Siberia (Tunguska): this is how the bright luminescence in the night skies of Europe and Central Asia was created.
If the light from the Sun could not reach London due to curvature and/or any light reflection phenomena, then certainly NO LIGHT from an explosion which occurred at some 7 km altitude in the atmosphere could have been seen at all, at the same time, on a spherical earth.
Tunguska file:
http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php/topic,59690.msg1537115.html#msg1537115
http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=59690.msg1535846#msg1535846 (no comet, meteorite, or asteroid)
Tesla - Tunguska:
http://www.teslasociety.com/tunguska.htm
http://www.tfcbooks.com/articles/tunguska.htm
Geo-magnetic disturbances were already observed even before the explosion!!
Many years later, researchers from Tomsk came across a forgotten publication by a Professor Weber about a powerful geo-magnetic disturbance observed in a laboratory at Kiel University in Germany for three days before the intrusion of the Tunguska object, and which ended at the very hour when the gigantic bolide exploded above the Central Siberian Plateau.
Tesla experimented with the ball lightning ether for YEARS before the Tunguska event; from the Wardenclyffe tower he sent longitudinal waves for days BEFORE the event itself in order to carefully set up the experiment.
Your example of the Tunguska incident is based on one rare instance of atmospheric conditions. Has this ever been duplicated ?
Your example of Tunguska to or from London would be an impossibility even if the earth was flat.
The elevation of London is approximately 115 feet above sea level. The elevation at Tunguska is approximately 1082 feet above sea level. If there were no obstructions in between you would be able to see them.
But in between are the Ural Mountains with an elevation of approximately 6000 feet above sea level. You would have to see over the mountains.
My example of Sandy Hook to Lands End would be more realistic. They are both at about the same level - at sea level - and there are no obstructions between them but the "flat" sea. Therefore, if the earth was flat and you had the proper equipment you should be able to see across the Atlantic Ocean. If this is so, why are there no reports of this or photographic evidence of this ? In the first place, flat earth places no trust in photographs.
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You posed a question: can one see Great Britain from New York?
Why not increase the difficulty of the problem: can Tunguska be seen from London?
Of course it can.
(https://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/582x643q90/203/l6sl.jpg)
JULY 1, 1908 LETTER SENT TO THE LONDON TIMES
http://www.nuforc.org/GNTungus.html
“TO THE EDITOR OF THE TIMES.”
“Sir,--I should be interested in hearing whether others of your readers observed the strange light in the sky which was seen here last night by my sister and myself. I do not know when it first appeared; we saw it between 12 o’clock (midnight) and 12:15 a.m. It was in the northeast and of a bright flame-colour like the light of sunrise or sunset. The sky, for some distance above the light, which appeared to be on the horizon, was blue as in the daytime, with bands of light cloud of a pinkish colour floating across it at intervals. Only the brightest stars could be seen in any part of the sky, though it was an almost cloudless night. It was possible to read large print indoors, and the hands of the clock in my room were quite distinct. An hour later, at about 1:30 a.m., the room was quite light, as if it had been day; the light in the sky was then more dispersed and was a fainter yellow. The whole effect was that of a night in Norway at about this time of year. I am in the habit of watching the sky, and have noticed the amount of light indoors at different hours of the night several times in the last fortnight. I have never at any time seen anything the least like this in England, and it would be interesting if any one would explain the cause of so unusual a sight.
Yours faithfully,
Katharine Stephen.
Godmanchester, Huntingdon, July 1.”
Let us remember that the first newspaper report about the explosion itself ONLY appeared on July 2, 1908 in the Sibir periodical.
A report from Berlin in the New York Times of July 3 stated: 'Remarkable lights were observed in the northern heavens on Tuesday and Wednesday nights, the bright diffused white and yellow illumination continuing through the night until it disappeared at dawn...'
On July 5, (1908) a New York Times story from Britain was entitled: 'Like Dawn at Midnight.' '...The northern sky at midnight became light blue, as if the dawn were breaking...people believed that a big fire was raging in the north of London...shortly after midnight, it was possible to read large print indoors...it would be interesting if anyone would explain the cause of so unusual a sight.'
The letter sent by Mrs. Katharine Stephen is absolutely genuine as it includes details NOBODY else knew at the time: not only the precise timing of the explosion itself (7:15 - 7:17 local time, 0:15 - 0:17 London time), BUT ALSO THE DURATION OF THE TRAJECTORY OF THE OBJECT, right before the explosion, a fact uncovered decades later only by the painstaking research of Dr. Felix Zigel, an aerodynamics professor at the Moscow Institute of Aviation:
The same opinion was reached by Felix Zigel, who as an aerodynamics professor at the Moscow Institute of Aviation has been involved in the training of many Soviet cosmonauts. His latest study of all the eyewitness and physical data convinced him that "before the blast the Tunguska body described in the atmosphere a tremendous arc of about 375 miles in extent (in azimuth)" - that is, it "carried out a maneuver." No natural object is capable of such a feat.
Manotskov decided that the 1908 object, on the other hand, had a far slower entry speed and that, nearing the earth, it reduced its speed to "0.7 kilometers per second, or 2,400 kilometers per hour" - less than half a mile per second.
375 miles = 600 km, or 15 minutes of flight time, given the speed exemplified above
I do not know when it first appeared; we saw it between 12 o’clock (midnight) and 12:15 a.m.
LeMaire maintains the "accident-explanation is untenable" because "the flaming object was being expertly navigated" using Lake Baikal as a reference point. Indeed, Lake Baikal is an ideal aerial navigation reference point being 400 miles long and about 35 miles wide. LeMaire's description of the course of the Tunguska object lends credence to the thought of expert navigation:
The body approached from the south, but when about 140 miles from the explosion point, while over Kezhma, it abruptly changed course to the east. Two hundred and fifty miles later, while above Preobrazhenka, it reversed its heading toward the west. It exploded above the taiga at 60º55' N, 101º57' E (LeMaire 1980).
(http://www.andras-nagy.com/ufo03/pic/p131.jpg)
The fight path of the cosmic object, as reconstructed from eyewitness testimony and ballistic wave evidence. Felix Zigel and other space experts agree that, prior to exploding, the object changed from an eastward to a westward direction over the Stony Tunguska region. The arc at the bottom of the map indicates the scope of the area where witnesses either saw the fiery object or heard the blast.
The information acquired by the Florensky and Zolotov expeditions about the ballistic shock effect on the trees provides a strong basis, in some scientists' view, for a reconstruction of an alteration in the object's line of flight. In the terminal phase of its descent, according to the most recent speculations, the object appears to have approached on an eastward course, then changed course westward over the region before exploding. The ballistic wave evidence, in fact, indicates that some type of flight correction was performed in the atmosphere.
UFOs/Jet aircrafts/V2 rockets were invented by the Vril society, only after 1936.
Tesla had a bold fantasy whereby he would use the principle of rarefied gas luminescence to light up the sky at night. High frequency electric energy would be transmitted, perhaps by an ionizing beam of ultraviolet radiation, into the upper atmosphere, where gases are at relatively low pressure, so that this layer would behave like a luminous tube. Sky lighting, he said, would reduce the need for street lighting, and facilitate the movement of ocean going vessels.
(http://www.phenomena.org.uk/features/page88/files/tunguska-3.jpg)
A photograph with an exposure time of 20 seconds taken at 10.50 p.m., July 1, 1908 by George Embrey of Gloucester.
The telluric currents/ether/subquark-magnetic monopoles strings transmitted the energy input from the Tesla ball lightning spheres which exploded over Siberia (Tunguska): this is how the bright luminescence in the night skies of Europe and Central Asia was created.
If the light from the Sun could not reach London due to curvature and/or any light reflection phenomena, then certainly NO LIGHT from an explosion which occurred at some 7 km altitude in the atmosphere could have been seen at all, at the same time, on a spherical earth.
Tunguska file:
http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php/topic,59690.msg1537115.html#msg1537115
http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=59690.msg1535846#msg1535846 (no comet, meteorite, or asteroid)
Tesla - Tunguska:
http://www.teslasociety.com/tunguska.htm
http://www.tfcbooks.com/articles/tunguska.htm
Geo-magnetic disturbances were already observed even before the explosion!!
Many years later, researchers from Tomsk came across a forgotten publication by a Professor Weber about a powerful geo-magnetic disturbance observed in a laboratory at Kiel University in Germany for three days before the intrusion of the Tunguska object, and which ended at the very hour when the gigantic bolide exploded above the Central Siberian Plateau.
Tesla experimented with the ball lightning ether for YEARS before the Tunguska event; from the Wardenclyffe tower he sent longitudinal waves for days BEFORE the event itself in order to carefully set up the experiment.
So if you actually read the letter to the London Times, it clearly states that they saw a light in the sky. It was caused by a possible explosion in the sky. How could this possibly answer or even attempt to answer whether Tunguska can be seen from London?
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Here is an easy one.
If the earth was flat could you see the shore line and the Casino at Avalon on Santa Catalina Island from the shore line on the California coast ? Santa Catalina Island is only 22 miles southwest of Los Angeles .
I have only seen one photograph of Santa Catalina Island taken from the California Coast and it only shows the tops of the peaks of Santa Catalina Island. Certainly not the shore line or the Casino.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Santa_Catalina_Island,_California#/media/File:Catalinasil.jpg
Another example would be : If the earth was flat you should be able to see Diamond Head at Honolulu, Hawaii from any point on the California Coast. As explained on another thread, there are ample means to do this and ample means and methods to eliminate any difficulties from atmospheric conditions....haze, smog, fog etc. If the earth was flat why have no photographs showing this having ever been taken ?
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You posed a question: can one see Great Britain from New York?
Why not increase the difficulty of the problem: can Tunguska be seen from London?
Of course it can.
(https://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/582x643q90/203/l6sl.jpg)
JULY 1, 1908 LETTER SENT TO THE LONDON TIMES
http://www.nuforc.org/GNTungus.html
“TO THE EDITOR OF THE TIMES.”
“Sir,--I should be interested in hearing whether others of your readers observed the strange light in the sky which was seen here last night by my sister and myself. I do not know when it first appeared; we saw it between 12 o’clock (midnight) and 12:15 a.m. It was in the northeast and of a bright flame-colour like the light of sunrise or sunset. The sky, for some distance above the light, which appeared to be on the horizon, was blue as in the daytime, with bands of light cloud of a pinkish colour floating across it at intervals. Only the brightest stars could be seen in any part of the sky, though it was an almost cloudless night. It was possible to read large print indoors, and the hands of the clock in my room were quite distinct. An hour later, at about 1:30 a.m., the room was quite light, as if it had been day; the light in the sky was then more dispersed and was a fainter yellow. The whole effect was that of a night in Norway at about this time of year. I am in the habit of watching the sky, and have noticed the amount of light indoors at different hours of the night several times in the last fortnight. I have never at any time seen anything the least like this in England, and it would be interesting if any one would explain the cause of so unusual a sight.
Yours faithfully,
Katharine Stephen.
Godmanchester, Huntingdon, July 1.”
Let us remember that the first newspaper report about the explosion itself ONLY appeared on July 2, 1908 in the Sibir periodical.
A report from Berlin in the New York Times of July 3 stated: 'Remarkable lights were observed in the northern heavens on Tuesday and Wednesday nights, the bright diffused white and yellow illumination continuing through the night until it disappeared at dawn...'
On July 5, (1908) a New York Times story from Britain was entitled: 'Like Dawn at Midnight.' '...The northern sky at midnight became light blue, as if the dawn were breaking...people believed that a big fire was raging in the north of London...shortly after midnight, it was possible to read large print indoors...it would be interesting if anyone would explain the cause of so unusual a sight.'
The letter sent by Mrs. Katharine Stephen is absolutely genuine as it includes details NOBODY else knew at the time: not only the precise timing of the explosion itself (7:15 - 7:17 local time, 0:15 - 0:17 London time), BUT ALSO THE DURATION OF THE TRAJECTORY OF THE OBJECT, right before the explosion, a fact uncovered decades later only by the painstaking research of Dr. Felix Zigel, an aerodynamics professor at the Moscow Institute of Aviation:
The same opinion was reached by Felix Zigel, who as an aerodynamics professor at the Moscow Institute of Aviation has been involved in the training of many Soviet cosmonauts. His latest study of all the eyewitness and physical data convinced him that "before the blast the Tunguska body described in the atmosphere a tremendous arc of about 375 miles in extent (in azimuth)" - that is, it "carried out a maneuver." No natural object is capable of such a feat.
Manotskov decided that the 1908 object, on the other hand, had a far slower entry speed and that, nearing the earth, it reduced its speed to "0.7 kilometers per second, or 2,400 kilometers per hour" - less than half a mile per second.
375 miles = 600 km, or 15 minutes of flight time, given the speed exemplified above
I do not know when it first appeared; we saw it between 12 o’clock (midnight) and 12:15 a.m.
LeMaire maintains the "accident-explanation is untenable" because "the flaming object was being expertly navigated" using Lake Baikal as a reference point. Indeed, Lake Baikal is an ideal aerial navigation reference point being 400 miles long and about 35 miles wide. LeMaire's description of the course of the Tunguska object lends credence to the thought of expert navigation:
The body approached from the south, but when about 140 miles from the explosion point, while over Kezhma, it abruptly changed course to the east. Two hundred and fifty miles later, while above Preobrazhenka, it reversed its heading toward the west. It exploded above the taiga at 60º55' N, 101º57' E (LeMaire 1980).
(http://www.andras-nagy.com/ufo03/pic/p131.jpg)
The fight path of the cosmic object, as reconstructed from eyewitness testimony and ballistic wave evidence. Felix Zigel and other space experts agree that, prior to exploding, the object changed from an eastward to a westward direction over the Stony Tunguska region. The arc at the bottom of the map indicates the scope of the area where witnesses either saw the fiery object or heard the blast.
The information acquired by the Florensky and Zolotov expeditions about the ballistic shock effect on the trees provides a strong basis, in some scientists' view, for a reconstruction of an alteration in the object's line of flight. In the terminal phase of its descent, according to the most recent speculations, the object appears to have approached on an eastward course, then changed course westward over the region before exploding. The ballistic wave evidence, in fact, indicates that some type of flight correction was performed in the atmosphere.
UFOs/Jet aircrafts/V2 rockets were invented by the Vril society, only after 1936.
Tesla had a bold fantasy whereby he would use the principle of rarefied gas luminescence to light up the sky at night. High frequency electric energy would be transmitted, perhaps by an ionizing beam of ultraviolet radiation, into the upper atmosphere, where gases are at relatively low pressure, so that this layer would behave like a luminous tube. Sky lighting, he said, would reduce the need for street lighting, and facilitate the movement of ocean going vessels.
(http://www.phenomena.org.uk/features/page88/files/tunguska-3.jpg)
A photograph with an exposure time of 20 seconds taken at 10.50 p.m., July 1, 1908 by George Embrey of Gloucester.
The telluric currents/ether/subquark-magnetic monopoles strings transmitted the energy input from the Tesla ball lightning spheres which exploded over Siberia (Tunguska): this is how the bright luminescence in the night skies of Europe and Central Asia was created.
If the light from the Sun could not reach London due to curvature and/or any light reflection phenomena, then certainly NO LIGHT from an explosion which occurred at some 7 km altitude in the atmosphere could have been seen at all, at the same time, on a spherical earth.
Tunguska file:
http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php/topic,59690.msg1537115.html#msg1537115
http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=59690.msg1535846#msg1535846 (no comet, meteorite, or asteroid)
Tesla - Tunguska:
http://www.teslasociety.com/tunguska.htm
http://www.tfcbooks.com/articles/tunguska.htm
Geo-magnetic disturbances were already observed even before the explosion!!
Many years later, researchers from Tomsk came across a forgotten publication by a Professor Weber about a powerful geo-magnetic disturbance observed in a laboratory at Kiel University in Germany for three days before the intrusion of the Tunguska object, and which ended at the very hour when the gigantic bolide exploded above the Central Siberian Plateau.
Tesla experimented with the ball lightning ether for YEARS before the Tunguska event; from the Wardenclyffe tower he sent longitudinal waves for days BEFORE the event itself in order to carefully set up the experiment.
So if you actually read the letter to the London Times, it clearly states that they saw a light in the sky. It was caused by a possible explosion in the sky. How could this possibly answer or even attempt to answer whether Tunguska can be seen from London?
Another one. Moscow is even closer than Tunguska. Why can't you see Moscow from London ?
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Because you need the ball lightning technology employed by Tesla in order to create the energy needed to view such an object at very large distances.
The very fact that the explosion was seen from London, where newspapers could be read at midnight without the need of street lighting, while at the same time the light from the Sun could not be seen at all (due to the curvature of the Earth, say the RE) means one thing: there is no curvature at the surface of the Earth.
Moreover, we have the eyewitness accounts from Lake Baikal and other villages which did see the explosion (and described it in great detail), an event which could not possibly have taken place on a spherical Earth, given the precise calculations involving curvature.
As if this wasn't enough, the very trajectory of the ball lightning object was seen from London (the letter sent to the London Times on July 1, 1908), having occurred between 0:00 am and 0:15 am (7:00 am - 7:15 am Tunguska time), exactly the FIFTEEN MINUTES calculated for the object to go from Khezma to Preobrazhenka and then back to Tunguska.
Let us read again the words of Dr. Felix Zigel, aerodynamics professor at the Moscow Institute of Aviation: "no natural object is capable of such a feat".
Let us remember that the explosion took place at some 7 km in the atmosphere, that is why it could be seen over great distances on the flat earth.
https://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/582x643q90/203/l6sl.jpg
The explosion was seen all over Europe and Asia: newspapers could be read in Stockholm without street lighting (not to mention Berlin and Antwerp).
And we also have very detailed data showing that the lights could be seen (at a lower intensity) for three days PRIOR to the explosion: confirming the fact that Tesla was carefully preparing the experiment for it to take place on June 30, 1908 (that is, he was sending only one scalar wave in the region of Tunguska).
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You keep bringing up the Tunguska incident. And I keep bringing up the question of why I can't even see the Casino and the shore line at Santa Catalina Island - only the peaks of the mountains-from the California coast.
I suppose you have your reasons. I have only the fact that the earth is a globe and you can't see the shore line and the Casino because of the curvature of the earth.
Do you agree that I should be able to see the entire island of Santa Catalina from the coast of California if the earth was flat ? The distance is only about 20 to 25 miles. If you don't believe me ask some California natives. I did. And they said they could not see the Casino from the Santa Monica Pier.
The distance from Point Fermin Point Park to Avalon is 25.4 miles.
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You posed a question: can one see Great Britain from New York?
Why not increase the difficulty of the problem: can Tunguska be seen from London?
Of course it can.
(https://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/582x643q90/203/l6sl.jpg)
JULY 1, 1908 LETTER SENT TO THE LONDON TIMES
http://www.nuforc.org/GNTungus.html
“TO THE EDITOR OF THE TIMES.”
“Sir,--I should be interested in hearing whether others of your readers observed the strange light in the sky which was seen here last night by my sister and myself. I do not know when it first appeared; we saw it between 12 o’clock (midnight) and 12:15 a.m. It was in the northeast and of a bright flame-colour like the light of sunrise or sunset. The sky, for some distance above the light, which appeared to be on the horizon, was blue as in the daytime, with bands of light cloud of a pinkish colour floating across it at intervals. Only the brightest stars could be seen in any part of the sky, though it was an almost cloudless night. It was possible to read large print indoors, and the hands of the clock in my room were quite distinct. An hour later, at about 1:30 a.m., the room was quite light, as if it had been day; the light in the sky was then more dispersed and was a fainter yellow. The whole effect was that of a night in Norway at about this time of year. I am in the habit of watching the sky, and have noticed the amount of light indoors at different hours of the night several times in the last fortnight. I have never at any time seen anything the least like this in England, and it would be interesting if any one would explain the cause of so unusual a sight.
Yours faithfully,
Katharine Stephen.
Godmanchester, Huntingdon, July 1.”
Let us remember that the first newspaper report about the explosion itself ONLY appeared on July 2, 1908 in the Sibir periodical.
A report from Berlin in the New York Times of July 3 stated: 'Remarkable lights were observed in the northern heavens on Tuesday and Wednesday nights, the bright diffused white and yellow illumination continuing through the night until it disappeared at dawn...'
On July 5, (1908) a New York Times story from Britain was entitled: 'Like Dawn at Midnight.' '...The northern sky at midnight became light blue, as if the dawn were breaking...people believed that a big fire was raging in the north of London...shortly after midnight, it was possible to read large print indoors...it would be interesting if anyone would explain the cause of so unusual a sight.'
The letter sent by Mrs. Katharine Stephen is absolutely genuine as it includes details NOBODY else knew at the time: not only the precise timing of the explosion itself (7:15 - 7:17 local time, 0:15 - 0:17 London time), BUT ALSO THE DURATION OF THE TRAJECTORY OF THE OBJECT, right before the explosion, a fact uncovered decades later only by the painstaking research of Dr. Felix Zigel, an aerodynamics professor at the Moscow Institute of Aviation:
The same opinion was reached by Felix Zigel, who as an aerodynamics professor at the Moscow Institute of Aviation has been involved in the training of many Soviet cosmonauts. His latest study of all the eyewitness and physical data convinced him that "before the blast the Tunguska body described in the atmosphere a tremendous arc of about 375 miles in extent (in azimuth)" - that is, it "carried out a maneuver." No natural object is capable of such a feat.
Manotskov decided that the 1908 object, on the other hand, had a far slower entry speed and that, nearing the earth, it reduced its speed to "0.7 kilometers per second, or 2,400 kilometers per hour" - less than half a mile per second.
375 miles = 600 km, or 15 minutes of flight time, given the speed exemplified above
I do not know when it first appeared; we saw it between 12 o’clock (midnight) and 12:15 a.m.
LeMaire maintains the "accident-explanation is untenable" because "the flaming object was being expertly navigated" using Lake Baikal as a reference point. Indeed, Lake Baikal is an ideal aerial navigation reference point being 400 miles long and about 35 miles wide. LeMaire's description of the course of the Tunguska object lends credence to the thought of expert navigation:
The body approached from the south, but when about 140 miles from the explosion point, while over Kezhma, it abruptly changed course to the east. Two hundred and fifty miles later, while above Preobrazhenka, it reversed its heading toward the west. It exploded above the taiga at 60º55' N, 101º57' E (LeMaire 1980).
(http://www.andras-nagy.com/ufo03/pic/p131.jpg)
The fight path of the cosmic object, as reconstructed from eyewitness testimony and ballistic wave evidence. Felix Zigel and other space experts agree that, prior to exploding, the object changed from an eastward to a westward direction over the Stony Tunguska region. The arc at the bottom of the map indicates the scope of the area where witnesses either saw the fiery object or heard the blast.
The information acquired by the Florensky and Zolotov expeditions about the ballistic shock effect on the trees provides a strong basis, in some scientists' view, for a reconstruction of an alteration in the object's line of flight. In the terminal phase of its descent, according to the most recent speculations, the object appears to have approached on an eastward course, then changed course westward over the region before exploding. The ballistic wave evidence, in fact, indicates that some type of flight correction was performed in the atmosphere.
UFOs/Jet aircrafts/V2 rockets were invented by the Vril society, only after 1936.
Tesla had a bold fantasy whereby he would use the principle of rarefied gas luminescence to light up the sky at night. High frequency electric energy would be transmitted, perhaps by an ionizing beam of ultraviolet radiation, into the upper atmosphere, where gases are at relatively low pressure, so that this layer would behave like a luminous tube. Sky lighting, he said, would reduce the need for street lighting, and facilitate the movement of ocean going vessels.
(http://www.phenomena.org.uk/features/page88/files/tunguska-3.jpg)
A photograph with an exposure time of 20 seconds taken at 10.50 p.m., July 1, 1908 by George Embrey of Gloucester.
The telluric currents/ether/subquark-magnetic monopoles strings transmitted the energy input from the Tesla ball lightning spheres which exploded over Siberia (Tunguska): this is how the bright luminescence in the night skies of Europe and Central Asia was created.
If the light from the Sun could not reach London due to curvature and/or any light reflection phenomena, then certainly NO LIGHT from an explosion which occurred at some 7 km altitude in the atmosphere could have been seen at all, at the same time, on a spherical earth.
Tunguska file:
http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php/topic,59690.msg1537115.html#msg1537115
http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=59690.msg1535846#msg1535846 (no comet, meteorite, or asteroid)
Tesla - Tunguska:
http://www.teslasociety.com/tunguska.htm
http://www.tfcbooks.com/articles/tunguska.htm
Geo-magnetic disturbances were already observed even before the explosion!!
Many years later, researchers from Tomsk came across a forgotten publication by a Professor Weber about a powerful geo-magnetic disturbance observed in a laboratory at Kiel University in Germany for three days before the intrusion of the Tunguska object, and which ended at the very hour when the gigantic bolide exploded above the Central Siberian Plateau.
Tesla experimented with the ball lightning ether for YEARS before the Tunguska event; from the Wardenclyffe tower he sent longitudinal waves for days BEFORE the event itself in order to carefully set up the experiment.
So if you actually read the letter to the London Times, it clearly states that they saw a light in the sky. It was caused by a possible explosion in the sky. How could this possibly answer or even attempt to answer whether Tunguska can be seen from London?
A light was seen in the sky in London. But nothing of Tunguska itself was seen. What was seen from Tunguska? Big Ben ?
If Tunguska could be seen from London surely London could have been seen from Tunguska. Repeat - Quote - "How could this possibly answer or even attempt to answer whether Tunguska can be seen from London ? "- Unquote.
sandokan, if you wish to prove the earth is flat show some evidence of seeing objects beyond the horizon...those objects from ground up, that is. The distance from the observer to the horizon can be easily calculated. If the earth was flat, the distance would always be infinite. Prove otherwise if you can.
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On the local scene, Reunion Tower in Dallas , Texas, USA is 561 feet tall.
The observation deck is 470 feet above ground level.
The calculated distance to the horizon is 29 miles.
Quote-"How far can you see from Reunion Tower ?
On a clear day, you can see Fort Worth, 32 miles to the west. And with the GeO-Deck’s new Dallas Landmarks feature, you can get a really close up look at spots all over Dallas."-Unqoute
http://www.ntdsc.org/gallery/reuniontower/
If the earth was flat, why can't I see any farther than this ?
I should be able to see San Antonio, Houston, Oklahoma City, etc ?.......
If the earth was flat ?.....
Is Reunion Tower a part of The Great Round Earth Conspiracy ?.....
Something in the glass in the observation deck to mask out anything farther than the calculated "Round Earth Distance To The Horizon" ?
Which is a lie ?
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The entire view of Catalina island can be seen from San Pedro easily, there are many photographs taken from Point Fermin (as an example) which do show this. Details like the shoreline need to be viewed with a reflector telescope, so far nobody has done this (with the exception of lake Ontario, where Kerry-Ann Lecky Hepburn did see the shoreline of Toronto from a distance of 55 km).
Dallas - San Antonio distance: 410 km
Dallas - Houston distance: 380 km
Certainly you are not going to see anything from Reunion Tower over such a great distance.
We do know that the County courthouse (40 meters) from Racine can be seen from 128 km distance (Holland, lake Michigan), a fact which is absolutely impossible on a round earth.
You have at your disposal the very best proof that there is no curvature at the surface of the Earth, yet you choose to ignore it.
Newspapers could be read in London at the very instant of the explosion in Tunguska.
The trajectory of the ball lightning object was observed for 15 minutes prior to the explosion, a fact which was uncovered decades later, yet the letter sent on July 1, 1908, states this fact very clearly.
If the light from the Sun could not reach London due to curvature and/or any light reflection phenomena, then certainly NO LIGHT from an explosion which occurred at some 7 km altitude in the atmosphere could have been seen at all, at the same time, on a spherical earth.
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We do know that these facts are known.
1 The earth is a globe and not a flat disc.
2.The horizon is a distinct line where earth (or sea) meet the sky and not some blur that fades in the distance.
3.We do know that the distance an observer can see is limited by the distance to the horizon which is limited by the height of the observer.
4.We do know that this distance to the horizon can be easily calculated, knowing the height of the observer : The higher the observer the farther to the horizon.
5.We do know that whole flat earth fantasy is a fallacy after fallacy, has neither proof nor evidence and has been de-bunked time after time. Period
My service in the US Navy was only 4 years. But if you wish to call all members of the Navy are liars because they know from experience that the earth is a globe and not a flat disc, this is something that would be expected from someone who claims the earth is a flat disc. I doubt that you would change your mind set even if you talked to some expert in the US Navy - or any other Navy in the world and asked them if the earth is not a globe. I doubt you will ever acknowledge reality. But that is one reason this website is a great source of entertainment. Of course everyone is entitled to their own beliefs, whether they be true or false.
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We do know that these facts are known.
1 The earth is a globe and not a flat disc.
2.The horizon is a distinct line where earth (or sea) meet the sky and not some blur that fades in the distance.
3.We do know that the distance an observer can see is limited by the distance to the horizon which is limited by the height of the observer.
4.We do know that this distance to the horizon can be easily calculated, knowing the height of the observer : The higher the observer the farther to the horizon.
5.We do know that whole flat earth fantasy is a fallacy after fallacy, has neither proof nor evidence and has been de-bunked time after time. Period
My service in the US Navy was only 4 years. But if you wish to call all members of the Navy are liars because they know from experience that the earth is a globe and not a flat disc, this is something that would be expected from someone who claims the earth is a flat disc. I doubt that you would change your mind set even if you talked to some expert in the US Navy - or any other Navy in the world and asked them if the earth is not a globe. I doubt you will ever acknowledge reality. But that is one reason this website is a great source of entertainment. Of course everyone is entitled to their own beliefs, whether they be true or false.
1) False
2) Perspective
3) False
4) False
5) False
The rest of your soapboxing is irrelevant.
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I'm getting out of here. If someone else wants to take it up, good luck. But you need to talk to some people out in California about Santa Catalina.See if anyone has ever seen the Casino from the coast, barring any mirages or unusual atmospheric conditions.
If you don't believe the Navy, tell it to the Marines. LOL
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I see you're admitting defeat. Another quality victory for FE.
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Some of us so-called "Round Earthers" enjoy "soap boxing" just for the fun and nonsense of trying to engage in an intelligent discussion with a so-called "Flat Earther". LOL. Deleted. Covered on later post.
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Reality has no place on this website. Have a good day.
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BTW
I called the library at Avalon on Santa Catalina and they said the consensus was that you could see just the peaks of the mountains on Santa Catalina and certainly not the Casino or the shoreline from the beaches on
The California coast. Telescopes only magnify the mountains. They do not "restore" the shore line or "the sinking ship."
I would say that the flat earthers are going to say that the people at the Avalon Library are liars, part of The Great Round Earth Conspiracy, have been brainwashed and are trying to cover up the fact that the earth is flat. LOL.
Suggestion to The Flat Earth Society:
Why not just limit this forum and this webisite to only flat earth ideas and delete any references to the globe ?
This would eliminate a lot of space on this website nd allow the flat earthers to debate amongst themselves ?
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We do know that these facts are known.
1 The earth is a globe and not a flat disc.
2.The horizon is a distinct line where earth (or sea) meet the sky and not some blur that fades in the distance.
3.We do know that the distance an observer can see is limited by the distance to the horizon which is limited by the height of the observer.
4.We do know that this distance to the horizon can be easily calculated, knowing the height of the observer : The higher the observer the farther to the horizon.
5.We do know that whole flat earth fantasy is a fallacy after fallacy, has neither proof nor evidence and has been de-bunked time after time. Period
My service in the US Navy was only 4 years. But if you wish to call all members of the Navy are liars because they know from experience that the earth is a globe and not a flat disc, this is something that would be expected from someone who claims the earth is a flat disc. I doubt that you would change your mind set even if you talked to some expert in the US Navy - or any other Navy in the world and asked them if the earth is not a globe. I doubt you will ever acknowledge reality. But that is one reason this website is a great source of entertainment. Of course everyone is entitled to their own beliefs, whether they be true or false.
1) False
2) Perspective
3) False
4) False
5) False
The rest of your soapboxing is irrelevant.
1) True
2) True
3) True
4) Possibly True from a majority of the population of the earth. Maybe just popular opinion.
How irrelevant is "FET"? Really ?????!!!!!!
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I could only find one good photograph of Santa Catalina Island taken from the coast of California. This one was apparently taken looking over rooftops and it only shows the tops of the peaks of Santa Catalina Island-not the entire island down to the shore line - because of the distance and due to the curvature of the earth. If the earth was flat I should see the shore line at Catalina and even the Casino with a telescope or binoculars.
http://www.bcre.com/images/catalina_island_views_720.jpg
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Your homework on Catalina island is superficial, as usual.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/80651083@N00/3337159627
(https://c2.staticflickr.com/4/3628/3337159627_fab06d70df.jpg)
(taken from Newport Beach)
(http://www.catalinasun.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/catalina-sunset.jpg)
(taken right on the beach of California, zero curvature to Catalina island)
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Here are more stunning photographs showing zero curvature all the way to Catalina island:
(http://www.lonewolfephotos.com/Palos-Verdes-South-Bay-Birds/Palos-Verdes-South-Bay-Birds/i-xd5cnFM/0/L/December%2012%202010%20Shoreline%20Park1-L.jpg)
(taken from Palos Verdes)
(https://a0.muscache.com/im/pictures/8180634/c542bc49_original.jpg?aki_policy=x_large)
(taken from Laguna Beach)
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Thanks sandokhan .
The point was simply that if the earth was flat you should be able to see the beach and the Casino at Santa Catalina Island from the beach on the shore on the California mainland coast. But you can not due to the curvature of the earth. You can see top of the island but not down to the shore line nor the Casino. If the earth was flat, these should show in photos made with a camera with a telescopic lens. But there are none.Perhaps if you could find a high enough vantage point you might be able to see them.
Once again, this was verified by natives of Santa Catalina Island.
If you were on the tops of those mountains on Santa Catalina Island you should be able to see those houses and the shore of the California coast with a telescope or binoculars but mostly likely not from sea level on the beach or from the Casino.
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It doesn't work like that.
Not with me.
Curvature and visual obstacle formulas:
http://forum.tfes.org/index.php?topic=3197.msg77197#msg77197
Distance Catalina - San Pedro 40 km (http://www.distancefromto.net/between/San+Pedro/Santa+Catalina+Island )
Of course, the distance between Catalina and Newport Beach is even greater...
Curvature for 40 km = 31.3 meters
Visual obstacle (photograph taken right on the beach, h = 3 meters) = 90 meters
No such visual obstacle is even remotely seen in the photograph.
Moreover, in the image shot in Palos Verdes, there is no ascending slope, no midpoint curvature of 31.3 meters, no descending slope, just a perfectly even surface of the ocean all the way to Catalina:
(http://www.lonewolfephotos.com/Palos-Verdes-South-Bay-Birds/Palos-Verdes-South-Bay-Birds/i-xd5cnFM/0/L/December%2012%202010%20Shoreline%20Park1-L.jpg)
With a telescope certainly all the details could be seen...
Until such a photograph will be displayed on the net... we have the following image:
(http://www.lonewolfephotos.com/Photography-with-the-Pentax/Catalina-Island-With-the/i-89Z4RkJ/0/L/Catalina34-L.jpg)
San Pedro seen from Catalina: zero curvature, no ascending slope, no 31.3 meter midpoint visual obstacle
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Of course it doesn't work for you since you are one of those playing the old "deny all the reality that the earth is a globe" game. LOL. Hope you are having fun.
I am sure there must be some "flat earthers" living in Southern California.
Here is a project for you.
Go to some beach on the shore facing Santa Catalina Island.
25 miles distance is not a problem with most telescopic lenses.
With your camera at eye level take a picture.
Take a photograph looking across the ocean showing the Casino, shore and harbor.
If the earth was flat you should be able to do this.
The people at Avalon and on the coast say you can't do this. Now is the chance for The Flat Earth Society to prove them wrong, prove the earth is flat, prove the earth is not a globe, and prove that there is no curvature of the earth. This has to be at eye level.
No fair going any higher !
This should also prove that the horizon is an indistinct blur which fades away in the distance. There should be no distinct line where the sea and sky meet.
Now's your chance, flat earthers !
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We do know that these facts are known.
1 The earth is a globe and not a flat disc.
2.The horizon is a distinct line where earth (or sea) meet the sky and not some blur that fades in the distance.
3.We do know that the distance an observer can see is limited by the distance to the horizon which is limited by the height of the observer.
4.We do know that this distance to the horizon can be easily calculated, knowing the height of the observer : The higher the observer the farther to the horizon.
5.We do know that whole flat earth fantasy is a fallacy after fallacy, has neither proof nor evidence and has been de-bunked time after time. Period
My service in the US Navy was only 4 years. But if you wish to call all members of the Navy are liars because they know from experience that the earth is a globe and not a flat disc, this is something that would be expected from someone who claims the earth is a flat disc. I doubt that you would change your mind set even if you talked to some expert in the US Navy - or any other Navy in the world and asked them if the earth is not a globe. I doubt you will ever acknowledge reality. But that is one reason this website is a great source of entertainment. Of course everyone is entitled to their own beliefs, whether they be true or false.
1 The earth is a globe not a flat disk!!!! If this is the case why are all pictures of the globe composit not real pictures, Why do Space trips to the space station never do a full panoramic view of space and pan the entire planet. Why do we not see 25000 satalites twinkling in the sun like day stars.
2 Why can no one do a experiment to show how water on a globe stays there and can move in all direction in rivers if the earth is spinning at over 1000 miles per hour.
3 Why is it that on south experdisions ships find they can be over 20 miles out on navigation every day when following the shore line of Antartica.
4 Ships when traveling go from point to point ploting there course on a flat earth it makes more sence and we know there are no short cuts boats and planes all navigate the same paths on a flat earth map the paths are close to a streght line on the globe model it looks like your going way out of your way.
5 The flat earth map has been around 1000s of years Gallalayos Map 500 years and was drafted before flight of full navigation.It just looked nice stretching the map onto the globe and made a nice drinks despencer.
6 I live in the southern Hemisphire the sun in summer East Coast Australia we get about 12 hours of day light and then the sun sets in the western Coast some 3 hours later so that's 15 hours we see it around Australia this would mean the Northen Hemesphire only get 9 hours so the sun loiters over our part some 3500 miles of the earth in 15 hours and whizzes over the rest in 9 hours how does this work on a globe?
7 Sadly some have been brainwashed and programed from birth told from early learing this is a globe this is were you like look at this ball say planet say globe say we live here. Do not question it just belive it.
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I live in Torrance Ca. Just 11 miles from catalina express. I am new to the flat earth idea. I will soon be taking the trip to see for myself what i can and cannot see with a telescope from shore to shore. I will provide many photos of what i see.
If no casino, or actual shoreline can be seen through the telescope then that proves the curvature of the earth, does it not? Will the evidence actually be considered, or will the FE's simply dismiss them?
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We do know that these facts are known.
1 The earth is a globe and not a flat disc.
2.The horizon is a distinct line where earth (or sea) meet the sky and not some blur that fades in the distance.
3.We do know that the distance an observer can see is limited by the distance to the horizon which is limited by the height of the observer.
4.We do know that this distance to the horizon can be easily calculated, knowing the height of the observer : The higher the observer the farther to the horizon.
5.We do know that whole flat earth fantasy is a fallacy after fallacy, has neither proof nor evidence and has been de-bunked time after time. Period
My service in the US Navy was only 4 years. But if you wish to call all members of the Navy are liars because they know from experience that the earth is a globe and not a flat disc, this is something that would be expected from someone who claims the earth is a flat disc. I doubt that you would change your mind set even if you talked to some expert in the US Navy - or any other Navy in the world and asked them if the earth is not a globe. I doubt you will ever acknowledge reality. But that is one reason this website is a great source of entertainment. Of course everyone is entitled to their own beliefs, whether they be true or false.
1 The earth is a globe not a flat disk!!!! If this is the case why are all pictures of the globe composit not real pictures, Why do Space trips to the space station never do a full panoramic view of space and pan the entire planet. Why do we not see 25000 satalites twinkling in the sun like day stars.
2 Why can no one do a experiment to show how water on a globe stays there and can move in all direction in rivers if the earth is spinning at over 1000 miles per hour.
3 Why is it that on south experdisions ships find they can be over 20 miles out on navigation every day when following the shore line of Antartica.
4 Ships when traveling go from point to point ploting there course on a flat earth it makes more sence and we know there are no short cuts boats and planes all navigate the same paths on a flat earth map the paths are close to a streght line on the globe model it looks like your going way out of your way.
5 The flat earth map has been around 1000s of years Gallalayos Map 500 years and was drafted before flight of full navigation.It just looked nice stretching the map onto the globe and made a nice drinks despencer.
6 I live in the southern Hemisphire the sun in summer East Coast Australia we get about 12 hours of day light and then the sun sets in the western Coast some 3 hours later so that's 15 hours we see it around Australia this would mean the Northen Hemesphire only get 9 hours so the sun loiters over our part some 3500 miles of the earth in 15 hours and whizzes over the rest in 9 hours how does this work on a globe?
7 Sadly some have been brainwashed and programed from birth told from early learing this is a globe this is were you like look at this ball say planet say globe say we live here. Do not question it just belive it.
I was in the Navy only four years, too.
Here is another item regarding the distance to the horizon. Both the crow's nest and the antenna for the surface search radar are on the highest masts on the ships so they can "see" the farthest to the horizon.Flat earthers will probably do some nit-picking about radars that can "see" over the horizon, but this radar was designed to "see" ships and other objects on the surface of the sea and the maximum range was limited by the distance you could "see" to the horizon. If the earth was flat, these would not need to be placed so high. Air search radars are designed differently. They aim higher and can see higher and farther. Each radar is designed for a specific purpose.
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I live in Torrance Ca. Just 11 miles from catalina express. I am new to the flat earth idea. I will soon be taking the trip to see for myself what i can and cannot see with a telescope from shore to shore. I will provide many photos of what i see.
If no casino, or actual shoreline can be seen through the telescope then that proves the curvature of the earth, does it not? Will the evidence actually be considered, or will the FE's simply dismiss them?
I am looking forward to the results.
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We do know that these facts are known.
1 The earth is a globe and not a flat disc.
2.The horizon is a distinct line where earth (or sea) meet the sky and not some blur that fades in the distance.
3.We do know that the distance an observer can see is limited by the distance to the horizon which is limited by the height of the observer.
4.We do know that this distance to the horizon can be easily calculated, knowing the height of the observer : The higher the observer the farther to the horizon.
5.We do know that whole flat earth fantasy is a fallacy after fallacy, has neither proof nor evidence and has been de-bunked time after time. Period
My service in the US Navy was only 4 years. But if you wish to call all members of the Navy are liars because they know from experience that the earth is a globe and not a flat disc, this is something that would be expected from someone who claims the earth is a flat disc. I doubt that you would change your mind set even if you talked to some expert in the US Navy - or any other Navy in the world and asked them if the earth is not a globe. I doubt you will ever acknowledge reality. But that is one reason this website is a great source of entertainment. Of course everyone is entitled to their own beliefs, whether they be true or false.
1 The earth is a globe not a flat disk!!!! If this is the case why are all pictures of the globe composit not real pictures, Why do Space trips to the space station never do a full panoramic view of space and pan the entire planet. Why do we not see 25000 satalites twinkling in the sun like day stars.
2 Why can no one do a experiment to show how water on a globe stays there and can move in all direction in rivers if the earth is spinning at over 1000 miles per hour.
3 Why is it that on south experdisions ships find they can be over 20 miles out on navigation every day when following the shore line of Antartica.
4 Ships when traveling go from point to point ploting there course on a flat earth it makes more sence and we know there are no short cuts boats and planes all navigate the same paths on a flat earth map the paths are close to a streght line on the globe model it looks like your going way out of your way.
5 The flat earth map has been around 1000s of years Gallalayos Map 500 years and was drafted before flight of full navigation.It just looked nice stretching the map onto the globe and made a nice drinks despencer.
6 I live in the southern Hemisphire the sun in summer East Coast Australia we get about 12 hours of day light and then the sun sets in the western Coast some 3 hours later so that's 15 hours we see it around Australia this would mean the Northen Hemesphire only get 9 hours so the sun loiters over our part some 3500 miles of the earth in 15 hours and whizzes over the rest in 9 hours how does this work on a globe?
7 Sadly some have been brainwashed and programed from birth told from early learing this is a globe this is were you like look at this ball say planet say globe say we live here. Do not question it just belive it.
Simon -
Did you ever meet any flat earth beliefers when you were in the Navy ?
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Snip nonsense
4 Ships when traveling go from point to point ploting there course on a flat earth it makes more sence and we know there are no short cuts boats and planes all navigate the same paths on a flat earth map the paths are close to a streght line on the globe model it looks like your going way out of your way.
Maybe you should study up on what the term "Great Circle Navigation" means.
Start here.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great-circle_navigation