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Messages - Tom Bishop

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1
Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Terrible Political Memes
« on: September 17, 2021, 08:41:25 PM »

2
Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Coronavirus Vaccine and You
« on: September 17, 2021, 09:29:20 AM »
You're still missing the point: Would these kids, in your RI example, not have died if they didn't have Covid?

It would certainly need to be demonstrated explicitly that Covid contributed to their disease, as many cases of Covid are asymptomatic. If it's "fuzzy" or "unclear" and "maybe" is involved then it means you don't have the evidence to stroke fears to support your pandemic among the sickly and should probably just refrain from screaming fear to the media and focus on the research.

We have a pandemic where people are "maybe" dying of the disease.  ::)

Considerong the high level of comorbidities in the deaths it's obvious that you can't show that this disease is really that dangerous on its own and need to pull in other diseases to help you, in a manufactured argument of possible contributions to unrelated diseases. Is this how Polio and the Bubonic Plague worked?

3
Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Coronavirus Vaccine and You
« on: September 17, 2021, 07:01:47 AM »
That's an easy one. The person died of the mechanism of sepsis, but died of a disease called cancer. Two different things. No one is confusing "sepsis deaths" as the disease they died from.

In the case of people with multiple diseases, it's usually clear that they died of one thing as the primary disease of death. If another disease may or may not have been contributing, and it's vague, obviously just note it down for further research and don't make that data part of a sensational article claiming a pandemic of epic proportions and scream for worldwide economic shutdowns.

4
Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Coronavirus Vaccine and You
« on: September 17, 2021, 05:03:27 AM »
It's possible to figure out the primary cause of someone's death. They figured it out for these children:

https://www.golocalprov.com/news/3-children-with-covid-have-now-died-in-ri-state-has-3rd-highest-rate-in-u.s



If Covid is not the primary cause of death, why list it and publicize it as a Covid death and put it in State records as a Covid death and broadcast it all over the television in a Covid death segment other than for political or scare-tactic reasons? This is duplicitous, unethical behavior.

If they do want to collect secondary conditions they could just be honest about it and break it down instead of presenting it as "Covid Deaths". Presenting it as "Covid Deaths" leads one to assume that it was the lethal primary cause of death. But seeing the statistics of people who died of Cancer with asymptomatic Covid isn't sensational enough for their dirty agenda.

5
Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Coronavirus Vaccine and You
« on: September 17, 2021, 03:44:31 AM »
Did you even read your quote? She relented and wanted to cut out the gunshot victims and motor vehicle accidents but keep anything else slightly biological.

You stumble into the hospital extremely overweight, have stage 4 cancer, high cholesterol and a heart attack? Covid, obviously. You're an Illinois Covid victim. This is just more affirmation on what they're doing. The quote literally says that they aren't putting controls on it outside of the 'obvious' gunshot victims.

It doesn't matter if it was a year ago. If the statistics have been wrong for a year that's pretty bad.

6
Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Coronavirus Vaccine and You
« on: September 17, 2021, 03:08:56 AM »
So it took news articles and national embarrassment to get them to remove it. It was only found out by the reporters because the victim was a special coronavirus victim in their 20's and the motorcycle crash was inadvertently mentioned to the reporters by a doctor, the Orange County Health Officer, who absurdly proceeded to defend it. I consider the action of backtracking on your lies to be irrelevant. I can see that you are pretty desperate though.

Health officials are clearly stating that they consider it to be a Covid death even if there is a clear alternate cause:

https://week.com/2020/04/20/idph-director-explains-how-covid-deaths-are-classified/

Quote
IDPH Director explains how Covid deaths are classified

Still, the department's Director, Dr. Ngozi Ezike used part of her time during Sunday's health briefing to explain how the department determines if a death is related to Coronavirus.

Essentially, Dr. Ezike explained that anyone who passes away after testing positive for the virus is included in that category.

"If you were in hospice and had already been given a few weeks to live, and then you also were found to have COVID, that would be counted as a COVID death. It means technically even if you died of a clear alternate cause, but you had COVID at the same time, it's still listed as a COVID death. So, everyone who's listed as a COVID death doesn't mean that that was the cause of the death, but they had COVID at the time of the death." Dr. Ezike outlined.

She reiterated Illinois health officials will continue to work vigorously to protect the state's most vulnerable populations.

The Illinois Department of Public Health says directly how it works. Not a coincidence that it's happening in multiple states and they are attributing it to CDC guidance.

7
Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Coronavirus Vaccine and You
« on: September 17, 2021, 02:16:23 AM »
Colorado:

https://townhall.com/tipsheet/katiepavlich/2020/12/17/in-colorado-theyre-counting-gun-shot-fatalities-as-covid-deaths-n2581730

Quote
"The coroner, Brenda Bock, says two of their five deaths related to COVID-19 were people who died of gunshot wounds," CBS News Denver reports. "Bock says because they tested positive for COVID-19 within the past 30 days, they were classified as 'deaths among cases.'"

Minnesota:

https://www.lexingtonchronicle.com/news/how-accurate-are-covid-death-reports

Quote
Minnesota Rep. Mary Franson and Sen. Scott Jensen believe the covid death count was inflated. They said they found covid blamed for deaths from falls, a drowning, dementia, stroke and multi-organ failure. Rep. Franson said a man ejected in a car accident was “counted as a covid death” because the virus was in his system.

Florida; a non-hypothetical motorcycle accident counted as a Covid death this time:

https://cbs12.com/news/local/man-who-died-in-motorcycle-crash-counted-as-covid-19-death-in-florida-report

Quote
ORLANDO, Fla. (CBS12) — A man who died in a motorcycle crash was counted as a COVID-19 death in Florida, according to a new report from FOX 35 Orlando.

According to the report, Orange County Health Officer Dr. Raul Pino was asked whether two coronavirus victims in their 20s had any underlying medical conditions that could have potentially made them more susceptible to the virus.

Pino's answer was that one of the two people who was listed as a COVID death actually died in a motorcycle crash. Despite health officials knowing the man died in a motorcycle crash, it is unclear whether or not his death was removed from the overall count in the state.

Dr. Pino tells FOX 35 that one "could actually argue that it could have been the COVID-19 that caused him to crash."

lol

8
Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Coronavirus Vaccine and You
« on: September 17, 2021, 01:26:53 AM »
Quote from: Shifter
Loved the way you cherry picked that article to suit a narrative you like to tell.

Cherry picked? I posted a whole bunch of them from other areas and people saying the same thing. See the red bolded quote from Illinois Department of Public Health in the second quote here which spells it out for you:

Dr. Birx says the same:

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2020/04/08/dr_birx_unlike_some_countries_if_someone_dies_with_covid-19_we_are_counting_that_as_a_covid-19_death.html

Quote
Dr. Birx: Unlike Some Countries, "If Someone Dies With COVID-19 We Are Counting That As A COVID-19 Death"

At Tuesday's White House coronavirus press conference, task force member Dr. Deborah Birx said that while some countries are reporting coronavirus fatality numbers differently, in the U.S. you are counted as a victim of the pandemic if you die while testing positive for the virus, even if something else causes your death.

DR. DEBORAH BIRX: "So, I think in this country we've taken a very liberal approach to mortality. And I think the reporting here has been pretty straightforward over the last five to six weeks. Prior to that when there wasn't testing in January and February that's a very different situation and unknown.

There are other countries that if you had a preexisting condition and let's say the virus caused you to go to the ICU and then have a heart or kidney problem some countries are recording as a heart issue or a kidney issue and not a COVID-19 death. Right now we are still recording it and we will I mean the great thing about having forms that come in and a form that has the ability to market as COVID-19 infection the intent is right now that those if someone dies with COVID-19 we are counting that as a COVID-19 death."

Illinois Department of Public Health said they count the same way:

https://week.com/2020/04/20/idph-director-explains-how-covid-deaths-are-classified/

Quote
IDPH Director explains how Covid deaths are classified

Still, the department's Director, Dr. Ngozi Ezike used part of her time during Sunday's health briefing to explain how the department determines if a death is related to Coronavirus.

Essentially, Dr. Ezike explained that anyone who passes away after testing positive for the virus is included in that category.

"If you were in hospice and had already been given a few weeks to live, and then you also were found to have COVID, that would be counted as a COVID death. It means technically even if you died of a clear alternate cause, but you had COVID at the same time, it's still listed as a COVID death. So, everyone who's listed as a COVID death doesn't mean that that was the cause of the death, but they had COVID at the time of the death." Dr. Ezike outlined.

She reiterated Illinois health officials will continue to work vigorously to protect the state's most vulnerable populations.

Lots of quotes and examples here:

https://www.foxnews.com/us/as-u-s-coronavirus-death-toll-mounts-so-does-the-belief-it-is-exaggerated

Quote
“I think a lot of clinicians are putting that condition (COVID-19) on death certificates when it might not be accurate because they died with coronavirus and not of coronavirus,” Macomb County, Mich., Chief Medical Examiner Daniel Spitz in an interview with the Ann Arbor News last month.

...

Colorado counted a man who a county coroner said died of acute alcohol poisoning as a COVID-19 death.

Montezuma County Coroner George Deavers told the Durango Herald the man’s blood-alcohol level was 0.55, or almost seven times the legal driving limit of 0.08 in Colorado. A BAC of 0.3 is considered lethal.

“COVID was not listed on the death certificate as the cause of death,” Deavers said, the paper reported Wednesday. “I disagree with the state for listing it as a COVID death, and will be discussing it with them this week.”

...

News reports have identified the man as Sebastian Yellow, 35, and reported that he was found dead by police May 4.

The Montezuma County Public Health Department also was refusing to report Yellow's death as a COVID-19 death. “The state is reporting that death as a COVID death, but our health department wanted to let people know that even though the person did have the virus, they did not die from it,” the agency said.

In response to a request for comment about Yellow’s death, the Colorado Department of Health told KCNC-TV that it classifies a death as confirmed when there is a positive SARS-CoV-2 (COVID-19) laboratory test.


...

Last month, the same agency reclassified three deaths at a Centennial nursing home as COVID-19 deaths, challenging the findings of attending physicians who ruled the deaths were unrelated to the virus.

The deaths occurred at Someren Glen, where four other residents died of COVID-19. The state has now recorded all seven deaths as COVID-19 deaths.

“We have never seen a situation where the health department overrules a physician’s findings,” Tim Rogers, the facility’s executive director, told KCNC. “However, these are unprecedented times and the health department official did not share their motivation for changing physician’s orders.”

A health department spokesman told the station of those deaths that the agency was following CDC guidance.

Yeah, super scientific stuff here. The Illinois Department of Public Health says that "even if you died from a clear alternative cause" they will count you as a Covid death. An in-your-face statement that tells you that you're wrong on this.
 
Diabetes death:

https://www.summitdaily.com/news/covid-19-was-not-the-primary-cause-of-death-for-silverthorne-man/

Quote
On April 11, Summit County announced the death of a Silverthorne man in his 60s, who tested positive for the novel coronavirus after his death. On Friday, Summit County Coroner Regan Wood said the man had undiagnosed diabetes and suffered a diabetic ketoacidosis event that resulted in his death. The man also had coronary artery disease, which is related to the diabetes.

While the new coronavirus was not the primary cause of death, it is being listed as a “significant other condition” at the time of death, according to Wood. Because of that, the man still will be counted among the state’s COVID-19 deaths.

They're even doing it to children:

https://www.golocalprov.com/news/3-children-with-covid-have-now-died-in-ri-state-has-3rd-highest-rate-in-u.s


9
Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Coronavirus Vaccine and You
« on: September 16, 2021, 10:39:49 PM »
Quote from: Shifter
I know Tom loves to get his news from random social media memes or Cucker Tarlson but the claim that people who die in traffic accidents but tested positive for covid recently are being counted in the covid death toll is complete and utter BS

Yet that's how Oregon Health Authority is reporting the deaths, and claim that they are following CDC guidance:

https://www.kgw.com/article/news/investigations/questions-over-the-accuracy-of-how-the-state-tracks-covid-deaths/283-0b1b7b6c-695e-4313-92cf-a4cfd7510721

Quote
According to the Oregon Health Authority (OHA), there is no difference when it comes to tracking and reporting COVID deaths. OHA spokesman Jonathan Modie explained in an email how the state determines what is counted as a COVID-19 death:

We consider COVID-19 deaths to be:

Deaths in which a patient hospitalized for any reason within 14 days of a positive COVID-19 test result dies in the hospital or within the 60 days following discharge.

Deaths in which COVID-19 is listed as a primary or contributing cause of death on a death certificate.

We count COVID-19 deaths this way because the virus can often have effects on an individual’s health that may complicate their recovery from other diseases and conditions, even injuries, and indirectly contribute to their death. Another reason is because OHA is using this data to track the spread of the disease, and to create actionable steps for stopping its spread.


So what does that policy mean in practice? We asked Modie about a hypothetical case where someone died from a motorcycle crash and also had COVID-19. Would that be counted as a COVID-19 death?

“It would be,” Modie explained. “But I must go back to the point about how we used this data, which is to help us track how COVID-19 is spread in the community.”

He added that the state follows the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) guidelines for reporting deaths.

10
Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Coronavirus Vaccine and You
« on: September 16, 2021, 08:09:27 PM »
People over 60 are more likely to have chronic comorbidities. 2% of them are sick enough to be susceptible to this. Not too surprising. As you pass 60 your life expectancy goes down. Talk to some older people about their friends dying in their advancing age.

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr47/nvs47_28.pdf

See "Figure 3. Percent surviving by age: Death-registration States, 1900–1902 and United States, 1949–51 and 1997" -



Pretty big drop there between ages 60 and 90, as compared to ages 0 to 30 or from ages 30 to 60.

The fact remains that this is a disease that affects sick people.

Again, an incredibly weak argument. The people pushing this are either stupid or evil. No grey area.

11
Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Coronavirus Vaccine and You
« on: September 16, 2021, 07:15:43 PM »
Hmm. Yes, I think it’s probably best not to feed Troll and Troller. But for all their attempts to divert, the data I’ve presented on the impact of Covid is pretty clear. As is the cherry picking dishonesty required to arrive at the “99.7%” survival rate.

Incorrect. You are the one cherry picking, by telling us that we need to only look at the survival rate for the critically ill. Not everyone is very ill. The survival rate is very high for the general population. The people dying of this are the sick and feeble. From your own source:

https://fsph.iupui.edu/news-events/news/death-rate-covid-statewide-study.html

Quote
Nursing home residents represented 54.9% of Indiana’s deaths at this date.

Using the non-institutionalized population, researchers determined the overall IFR for Indiana to be 0.26%.

The IFR for Hoosiers who are 12 to 40 years old is 0.01% (children under 12 were not included in the study). That rate increases to 0.12% for those who are 40 to 59 years old.

IFR = Infection Fatality Rate

0.26% IFR = 99.74 survival rate for non-institutionalized
0.01% IFR = 99.99 survival rate for ages 12 to 40
0.12% IFR = 99.88 survival rate for ages 40 to 59

Arguing that the sick people and old people are people too and so we should all vaxx up with vaccines that have no long term safety data just seems like disingenuousness on your part, and probably a bit of vaccine regret there. Those people who are dying are also susceptible to die of plenty of other almost harmless diseases that we don't have worldwide lockdowns over, including the primary ailments they are sick with. Sick and old people die. That's how life works. Stop being a priss about it. The level of justification is very weak.

12
Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Coronavirus Vaccine and You
« on: September 16, 2021, 05:35:16 PM »
AATW: Yeah guys Covid is just like this <almost harmless disease that only kills sick people>, we need to be super afraid of it!

::)

13
Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Coronavirus Vaccine and You
« on: September 16, 2021, 05:16:52 PM »
In the Covid deaths there are an average of four comorbidities, with only 5% of deaths indicated as Covid as the only cause according to the CDC

Well, of course. These sorts of diseases rarely kill young, healthy people. That has nothing to do with anything.
During a regular flu season the people who die aren't generally young and fit, they're people who are already old and vulnerable.

There wasn't a worldwide lockdown for the flu. Since you are likening Covid to that it looks like you have debunked and discredited yourself.

14
Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Coronavirus Vaccine and You
« on: September 16, 2021, 08:35:55 AM »
In the Covid deaths there are an average of four comorbidities, with only 5% of deaths indicated as Covid as the only cause according to the CDC:

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid_weekly/index.htm#Comorbidities

Quote
For over 5% of these deaths, COVID-19 was the only cause mentioned on the death certificate. For deaths with conditions or causes in addition to COVID-19, on average, there were 4.0 additional conditions or causes per death.

Covid has a 99.7% survival rate:

https://www.wthr.com/article/news/health/coronavirus/doctor-sees-covid-19-survival-rate-through-people-and-loss-not-statistics/531-83b9969d-87b9-41f4-b3c8-c6fc2fad8c9f

Quote
According to Johns Hopkins University, 98 percent of people survive COVID-19, and new data from Indiana researchers is more encouraging, calculating a 99.7 percent survival rate.

So 5% of the 0.3% of cases resulting in death were attributed to Covid and for the other 95% of that 0.3%, the patient had an average of four other serious ailments.

That's like saying you were one of the unlucky few who died of Covid and it's a coincidence you just happened to be obese, have cancer, high blood pressure, and then had a heart attack.



Imaging being so scared of a scam pandemic that you inject yourself with a rushed vaccine with no long term safety data.

15
Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Coronavirus Vaccine and You
« on: September 15, 2021, 08:06:28 PM »
You consistently ignore available statistics on excess deaths.

Incorrect. I didn't. We talked about that the last time it was brought up.

Excess deaths were up in general.

https://www.kxl.com/study-shows-increase-in-non-covid-deaths-during-pandemic/

Quote
(Portland, OR) — Health officials say there was an increase in deaths from non-COVID-19 related conditions during the pandemic. A Providence Health study found unplanned hospitalizations were cut up to 50-percent while deaths increased 20-percent. People held off going to hospitals for heart issues, strokes and care for chronic conditions due to fear they’d get COVID-19. Doctors say people need to know that medical clinics, hospitals, and emergency rooms are safe places to get medical care.

People being afraid of going to the hospital means that there were excess deaths.

Another one that looked at the first three months of the pandemic:

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0033350620304467

Quote
COVID-19 has created an environment for excess deaths not due to the virus.

~

Conclusions: There have been more excess deaths in several age group and gender cohorts during the first three months of the pandemic, beyond direct deaths directly attributable to COVID-19.


Also, and again, they changed the way deaths were reported for Covid to include anyone who died 'with' Covid rather than 'of' Covid, unlike the reporting for the flu deaths and other diseases, inflating the Covid death toll.


16
Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Coronavirus Vaccine and You
« on: September 15, 2021, 06:04:43 PM »
I’m still not sure what the fuss is about. A vaccine that the FDA seems to have the same formulation as the EUA vaccine has been approved. Tom’s text wall just seems like he is trying to cope with the reality that vaccines aren’t killing people.

I wonder if Tom takes the threat of Covid seriously. It's already killed more Americans in less than 2 years then every war and conflict and terrorist act over the last 120 years.

Everyone is going to get covid eventually. Even I'm resigned to that fact. Maybe not this year or next, but as sure as I get a cold, I'll get covid.

Tom will too. Will he ensure he's protected as much as able? Or will we see him on sorry antivaxxer.com?

What are you talking about? If they are counting people who died of motorcycle accidents, unrelated ailments, alcohol poisonings, and chronically ill people who were previously given a few weeks to live as Covid deaths like it says in those quotes then you are being lied to and your premise is based on a falsity. Can you agree that if the quotes are true then your world view is false?

17
Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Coronavirus Vaccine and You
« on: September 15, 2021, 08:59:21 AM »
Repeating yourself? Same formulation has a particular meaning for the FDA. It doesn't mean that the composition is the same. And obviously not, since they specify that there are differences. They define what they mean. You just have to go and look it up. I provided the definitions to you here:

https://www.accessdata.fda.gov/scripts/cdrh/cfdocs/cfcfr/cfrsearch.cfm?fr=314.3

Sec. 314.3 Definitions.

Quote
Same drug product formulation is the formulation of the drug product submitted for approval and any formulations that have minor differences in composition or method of manufacture from the formulation submitted for approval, but are similar enough to be relevant to the Agency's determination of bioequivalence.

It's a different composition that is determined to have 'bioequivalence'.

Bioequivalence is also defined on that page:

Quote
Bioequivalence is the absence of a significant difference in the rate and extent to which the active ingredient or active moiety in pharmaceutical equivalents or pharmaceutical alternatives becomes available at the site of drug action when administered at the same molar dose under similar conditions in an appropriately designed study. Where there is an intentional difference in rate (e.g., in certain extended-release dosage forms), certain pharmaceutical equivalents or alternatives may be considered bioequivalent if there is no significant difference in the extent to which the active ingredient or moiety from each product becomes available at the site of drug action.

The definition includes extended-release dosages and alternatives. So their terminology is fairly loose. Same formulation means that it may have a different composition but they think it's equivalent. According to the above definition it could be a completely different alternative drug and still be a 'same formulation'.

See "if there is no significant difference in the extent to which the active ingredient or moiety from each product becomes available at the site of drug action" - It could have a completely different delivery mechanism, but as long as it puts the active ingredient in the right place, it's bioequivalent.

18
Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Coronavirus Vaccine and You
« on: September 15, 2021, 07:40:09 AM »
I did look it up. The FDA seems to disagree with you. You seemed to have missed what was posted before, from the FDA as part of their approval (My bolding, and a little red, this time so maybe you won't miss it):

"The FDA-approved COMIRNATY (COVID-19 Vaccine, mRNA) and the EUA-authorized Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 Vaccine have the same formulation and can be used interchangeably to provide the COVID-19 vaccination series.1"
https://www.fda.gov/media/144413/download

Your understanding of same formulation is incorrect. The FDA defines their meaning of same formulation right here on their definitions page:

https://www.accessdata.fda.gov/scripts/cdrh/cfdocs/cfcfr/cfrsearch.cfm?fr=314.3

Sec. 314.3 Definitions.

Quote
Same drug product formulation is the formulation of the drug product submitted for approval and any formulations that have minor differences in composition or method of manufacture from the formulation submitted for approval, but are similar enough to be relevant to the Agency's determination of bioequivalence.

It's a different composition that is determined to have 'bioequivalence'.

Bioequivalence is also defined on that page:

Quote
Bioequivalence is the absence of a significant difference in the rate and extent to which the active ingredient or active moiety in pharmaceutical equivalents or pharmaceutical alternatives becomes available at the site of drug action when administered at the same molar dose under similar conditions in an appropriately designed study. Where there is an intentional difference in rate (e.g., in certain extended-release dosage forms), certain pharmaceutical equivalents or alternatives may be considered bioequivalent if there is no significant difference in the extent to which the active ingredient or moiety from each product becomes available at the site of drug action.

The definition includes extended-release dosages and alternatives. So their terminology is fairly loose. Same formulation means that it may have a different composition but they think it's equivalent. According to the above definition it could be a completely different alternative drug and still be a 'same formulation'.

Quote
Again, I'm sure you know a lot more about optimized codons than anyone here or at the FDA. Lay it on us why the FDA says it's the same formulation but your insight into codon optimization is contrary to what the FDA says. School us.

'Same formulation' is defined by the FDA above. It's not what you think it means.

Regarding the codon optimization, if you want to learn about it I would recommend researching the topic yourself. It deals with genetic engineering:

http://2014.igem.org/Team:Penn_State/CodonOptimization

Quote
Codon optimization refers to the idea that the individual codons of a gene in a specific organism can be changed in order to alter the behavior of that organism. This relies on an understanding of the central dogma of biology, which states that any organism produces proteins by first transcribing genetic material in the form of DNA to RNA, which is then “read” by ribosomes which produce proteins based on the sequence of amino acids in that RNA. The reading of the RNA is done three nucleotides at a time, and these three letter series of nucleotides are called codons. Codons specify to the ribosome which amino acid to add to a growing amino acid chain.

There are 4 nucleotides, thus 43, or 64 codons are possible. Since there are only 20 amino acids, there is redundancy in the codons, that is, some amino acids are specified by multiple codons. There is no ambiguity, however, meaning that each codon specifies only one amino acid. Codons that code for the same amino acid are called degenerate codons, and even though these degenerate codons code for the same amino acid, they do not necessarily lead to the same expression levels of that amino acid.

Quote from: stack
Great, so how does this fit into some sort of no liability narrative? Still speculative. One person says maybe October. Another says they don't have a timeline. So what? What's the narrative you'r trying to assert?

The narrative is that the FDA did not approve a vaccine that's available. I don't see that this is incorrect.

Quote from: stack
Irresponsible? This seems irresponsible: https://www.sorryantivaxxer.com/

Yet you know that they changed the way Covid deaths are defined differently compared to other diseases, making your list meaningless and speculative. In years past deaths were not reported as a flu death if they die from a motorcycle accident. Those people could have had an asymptomatic Covid disease but died of something completely unrelated according to some of these quotes -

Oregon Health Authority:

https://www.kgw.com/article/news/investigations/questions-over-the-accuracy-of-how-the-state-tracks-covid-deaths/283-0b1b7b6c-695e-4313-92cf-a4cfd7510721

Quote
So what does that policy mean in practice? We asked Modie about a hypothetical case where someone died from a motorcycle crash and also had COVID-19. Would that be counted as a COVID-19 death?

“It would be,” Modie explained. “But I must go back to the point about how we used this data, which is to help us track how COVID-19 is spread in the community.”

Dr. Birx says the same:

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2020/04/08/dr_birx_unlike_some_countries_if_someone_dies_with_covid-19_we_are_counting_that_as_a_covid-19_death.html

Quote
Dr. Birx: Unlike Some Countries, "If Someone Dies With COVID-19 We Are Counting That As A COVID-19 Death"

At Tuesday's White House coronavirus press conference, task force member Dr. Deborah Birx said that while some countries are reporting coronavirus fatality numbers differently, in the U.S. you are counted as a victim of the pandemic if you die while testing positive for the virus, even if something else causes your death.

DR. DEBORAH BIRX: "So, I think in this country we've taken a very liberal approach to mortality. And I think the reporting here has been pretty straightforward over the last five to six weeks. Prior to that when there wasn't testing in January and February that's a very different situation and unknown.

There are other countries that if you had a preexisting condition and let's say the virus caused you to go to the ICU and then have a heart or kidney problem some countries are recording as a heart issue or a kidney issue and not a COVID-19 death. Right now we are still recording it and we will I mean the great thing about having forms that come in and a form that has the ability to market as COVID-19 infection the intent is right now that those if someone dies with COVID-19 we are counting that as a COVID-19 death."

Illinois Department of Public Health said they count the same way:

https://week.com/2020/04/20/idph-director-explains-how-covid-deaths-are-classified/

Quote
IDPH Director explains how Covid deaths are classified

Still, the department's Director, Dr. Ngozi Ezike used part of her time during Sunday's health briefing to explain how the department determines if a death is related to Coronavirus.

Essentially, Dr. Ezike explained that anyone who passes away after testing positive for the virus is included in that category.

"If you were in hospice and had already been given a few weeks to live, and then you also were found to have COVID, that would be counted as a COVID death. It means technically even if you died of a clear alternate cause, but you had COVID at the same time, it's still listed as a COVID death. So, everyone who's listed as a COVID death doesn't mean that that was the cause of the death, but they had COVID at the time of the death." Dr. Ezike outlined.

She reiterated Illinois health officials will continue to work vigorously to protect the state's most vulnerable populations.

Lots of quotes and examples here:

https://www.foxnews.com/us/as-u-s-coronavirus-death-toll-mounts-so-does-the-belief-it-is-exaggerated

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“I think a lot of clinicians are putting that condition (COVID-19) on death certificates when it might not be accurate because they died with coronavirus and not of coronavirus,” Macomb County, Mich., Chief Medical Examiner Daniel Spitz in an interview with the Ann Arbor News last month.

...

Colorado counted a man who a county coroner said died of acute alcohol poisoning as a COVID-19 death.

Montezuma County Coroner George Deavers told the Durango Herald the man’s blood-alcohol level was 0.55, or almost seven times the legal driving limit of 0.08 in Colorado. A BAC of 0.3 is considered lethal.

“COVID was not listed on the death certificate as the cause of death,” Deavers said, the paper reported Wednesday. “I disagree with the state for listing it as a COVID death, and will be discussing it with them this week.”

...

News reports have identified the man as Sebastian Yellow, 35, and reported that he was found dead by police May 4.

The Montezuma County Public Health Department also was refusing to report Yellow's death as a COVID-19 death. “The state is reporting that death as a COVID death, but our health department wanted to let people know that even though the person did have the virus, they did not die from it,” the agency said.

In response to a request for comment about Yellow’s death, the Colorado Department of Health told KCNC-TV that it classifies a death as confirmed when there is a positive SARS-CoV-2 (COVID-19) laboratory test.


...

Last month, the same agency reclassified three deaths at a Centennial nursing home as COVID-19 deaths, challenging the findings of attending physicians who ruled the deaths were unrelated to the virus.

The deaths occurred at Someren Glen, where four other residents died of COVID-19. The state has now recorded all seven deaths as COVID-19 deaths.

“We have never seen a situation where the health department overrules a physician’s findings,” Tim Rogers, the facility’s executive director, told KCNC. “However, these are unprecedented times and the health department official did not share their motivation for changing physician’s orders.”

A health department spokesman told the station of those deaths that the agency was following CDC guidance.

19
Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Coronavirus Vaccine and You
« on: September 15, 2021, 05:04:42 AM »
Quote from: stash
What exactly is the issue here? There is supply already out there being used to vaccinate folks. Why would they be sending out re-labeled same formulation vaccines when the stuff is already out there.

Wrong. It's not the same formula. Maybe do some research before repeating falsities.

Maybe you should take your own advice. Why don't you explain to us how the presence of "optimized codons" changes the formulation that is still considered the same formulation by the FDA?

If you want to know what they do look it up yourself. You claimed it was the same formula. It's not, as stated by the FDA.

Quote from: stack
Rather speculative..."In a few weeks, maybe they'll say in another few weeks..." and so on. Maybe. Speculation duly noted.

You cited speculation. The source said October "at the earliest", while other sources in the article said there was no timeframe available.




Quote from: stack
When my wife was mandated by her employer to get vaxxed, she couldn't choose J&J or Moderna because they weren't available. So what?

What does your wife's irresponsible life choices have to do with this?

It was claimed in this thread that the vaccine was FDA approved and this approval was given as justification for the vaccine mandates. This reasoning and justification is flawed since the vaccine that was approved is not available in the US.

20
Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Coronavirus Vaccine and You
« on: September 14, 2021, 08:34:17 PM »
Quote from: stash
What exactly is the issue here? There is supply already out there being used to vaccinate folks. Why would they be sending out re-labeled same formulation vaccines when the stuff is already out there.

Wrong. It's not the same formula. Maybe do some research before repeating falsities.

From the FDA - https://web.archive.org/web/20210913042547/https://www.fda.gov/media/151733/download

see page 14: 4. NonclinicalPharmacology/Toxicology

"COMIRNATY and BNT162b2 (V8) have identical amino acid sequences of the encoded antigens but COMIRNATY includes the presence of optimized codons to improve antigen expression."

The BNT162b2 vaccine referenced is the FDA EUA version:

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/different-vaccines/Pfizer-BioNTech.html

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General Information
Name: BNT162b2

Manufacturer: Pfizer, Inc., and BioNTech

Type of Vaccine: mRNA

Number of Shots: 2 shots, 21 days apart
Some immunocompromised people should get 3 shots

Comirnaty is also touted as "legally distinct", which may have legal ramification in the case of adverse events.

Quote from: stash
I mean what's the difference between now and few weeks from now?

It being not available simply means that it's not available. In a few weeks the source who thinks it might be a few weeks away may be saying that they think it might be a few weeks more, just like they probably thought a few weeks ago. No one can take the FDA-approved vaccine in the US if they wanted to. If someone has to get vaccinated now by their employer they can't choose to take the FDA-approved vaccine.

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