Offline mtnman

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Re: Viewing angle to sun at sunrise, sunset
« Reply #20 on: September 19, 2017, 12:40:17 AM »

57.3 is to convert the results from radians to degrees. It's 180/Pi

My results for latitude 30.22749 (N) is 34° (rounded) north of West. Not sure what happened. You can PM me if you'd like or I can send you my Excel spreadsheet.

I made the trip to the ocean at Panama City Beach on the FL panhandle. I looked up the predicted sunset time and direction from timeanddate.com (RE math) and took the prediction from the FE formula listed in the above thread.

Two caveats.

1: The FE formula was specific to the seasonal equinox dates, so it only works two days a year. I was not there on the fall equinox, although I was only off by a few days. The photos posted below were taken at sunset on September 12, 2017, ten days before the equinox. So I would expect that the result might shift by a few degrees.

2: I intended to take the magnetic declination into account. But once I looked it up, I found that it was only 3 degrees. Since I was working with a handheld compass, that small of a declination was not really a factor.

For that date and location, RE math (via timeanddate.com) predicted a sunset at 6:51pm CDT at a compass heading of 275 degrees.
FE math (see caveat above) predicted a sunset at compass heading of 326 degrees. This is towards the northwest which is about what I would expect looking at the FE animations.

My observation was that the sunset happened precisely at the time and direction according to RE math (via timeanddate.com). I found it difficult to have proper exposure and focus on the sunset and compass in the same frame. So in the pictures below you can two shots. In one you can see the sunset and a post on the beach, a volleyball net post I think. The post roughly points towards the sunset. in the second picture you can see my compass resting on the balcony pointing towards magnetic north. If you zoom in on the compass, you can see the sunset is at 275 degrees. The post in both pictures can used to judge the alignment.

The direction predicted by FE math (326 degrees) can not be seen in the picture. In order to view the sky at that angle I had to go through the condo and stand on the front side of the building.

Clearly, the FE equation doesn't remotely match observations made directly by the human eye. And the RE math does.

I have seen some posts by Tom Bishop asking for proof that timeanddate.com use a round Earth model. As if he assumes they must have some disclaimer or something indicating what model of the Earth they believe in. The expectation to find an answer to that question on their website is absurd. However, it is plain by browsing some of their site and back issues of their newsletters that they believe the Earth to be round and to be found orbiting the sun.

How does anyone take the flat Earth model seriously when it can't predict basic things we can see with our own eyes?
« Last Edit: September 19, 2017, 12:47:47 AM by mtnman »

Offline mtnman

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Re: Viewing angle to sun at sunrise, sunset
« Reply #21 on: September 19, 2017, 12:50:59 AM »
...
My observation was that the sunset happened precisely at the time and direction according to RE math (via timeanddate.com). I found it difficult to have proper exposure and focus on the sunset and compass in the same frame. So in the pictures below you can two shots. In one you can see the sunset and a post on the beach, a volleyball net post I think. The post roughly points towards the sunset. in the second picture you can see my compass resting on the balcony pointing towards magnetic north. If you zoom in on the compass, you can see the sunset is at 275 degrees. The post in both pictures can used to judge the alignment.

...
Trying a second post to get the second photo posted.

My intent was to post the full resolution photos so that people could read the compass, but the site won't allow me to upload the full size image. I am also attaching a screen snip of the zoomed view. Can't attach it either. Will try another post.
« Last Edit: September 19, 2017, 12:56:13 AM by mtnman »

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Re: Viewing angle to sun at sunrise, sunset
« Reply #22 on: September 19, 2017, 12:57:58 AM »
Screen shot of zoomed view.

Offline 3DGeek

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Re: Viewing angle to sun at sunrise, sunset
« Reply #23 on: September 19, 2017, 02:28:50 AM »
Screen shot of zoomed view.

Um...you do know that compasses are screwed up by having large pieces of metal nearby?

Your compass appears to be lashed firmly to a large metal fence rail.

Sorry - your information is useless.
Hey Tom:  What path do the photons take from the physical location of the sun to my eye at sunset?

Offline mtnman

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Re: Viewing angle to sun at sunrise, sunset
« Reply #24 on: September 19, 2017, 04:30:44 AM »

Um...you do know that compasses are screwed up by having large pieces of metal nearby?

Your compass appears to be lashed firmly to a large metal fence rail.

Sorry - your information is useless.
Yes I understand that. The surface of the rail was plastic, don't know if there was metal underneath, probably. But I did view the compass north heading while is was on the rail and several feet away to see if there was a difference and there was not. And yes I lashed it so it wouldn't fall off onto someone below.

I didn't take any pictures from the railing on the front of the building with the compass pointing in the FE predicted direction where there was not a sunset. When I placed the compass on that railing it did vastly change the compass heading. I did not see that behavior on the rail in the pictures.


Offline 3DGeek

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Re: Viewing angle to sun at sunrise, sunset
« Reply #25 on: September 19, 2017, 01:46:43 PM »

Um...you do know that compasses are screwed up by having large pieces of metal nearby?

Your compass appears to be lashed firmly to a large metal fence rail.

Sorry - your information is useless.
Yes I understand that. The surface of the rail was plastic, don't know if there was metal underneath, probably. But I did view the compass north heading while is was on the rail and several feet away to see if there was a difference and there was not. And yes I lashed it so it wouldn't fall off onto someone below.

I didn't take any pictures from the railing on the front of the building with the compass pointing in the FE predicted direction where there was not a sunset. When I placed the compass on that railing it did vastly change the compass heading. I did not see that behavior on the rail in the pictures.

Nobody makes handrails from plastic...that would hardly meet safety standards.  There might be a thin coating of plastic OVER the metal railings...but that's not going to prevent the metal from distorting the compass readings.   Even if it wasn't ON the railing, we have no idea whether you were standing close enough to it for it to move the compass needle.

But we only have your word for all of those things.  Point is, your photographic evidence is clearly invalid.  Case closed.

Hey Tom:  What path do the photons take from the physical location of the sun to my eye at sunset?

Offline mtnman

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Re: Viewing angle to sun at sunrise, sunset
« Reply #26 on: September 19, 2017, 09:00:27 PM »


Nobody makes handrails from plastic...that would hardly meet safety standards.  There might be a thin coating of plastic OVER the metal railings...but that's not going to prevent the metal from distorting the compass readings.   Even if it wasn't ON the railing, we have no idea whether you were standing close enough to it for it to move the compass needle.

But we only have your word for all of those things.  Point is, your photographic evidence is clearly invalid.  Case closed.

A simple experiment. RE math/timeanddate.com pointed to a sunset at 275 degrees. On the rail, the compass showed 275. Off the rail, the compass showed 275.

The FE formula presented to me here predicted a sunset 51 degrees away from that. But sure, I set my compass on the wrong thing, cause maybe there was metal there. That's what's wrong. If that's what you want to focus on, go ahead. I really don't care. Maybe next year I'll wade out into the ocean with my compass.

Offline 3DGeek

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Re: Viewing angle to sun at sunrise, sunset
« Reply #27 on: September 20, 2017, 06:54:57 PM »


Nobody makes handrails from plastic...that would hardly meet safety standards.  There might be a thin coating of plastic OVER the metal railings...but that's not going to prevent the metal from distorting the compass readings.   Even if it wasn't ON the railing, we have no idea whether you were standing close enough to it for it to move the compass needle.

But we only have your word for all of those things.  Point is, your photographic evidence is clearly invalid.  Case closed.

A simple experiment. RE math/timeanddate.com pointed to a sunset at 275 degrees. On the rail, the compass showed 275. Off the rail, the compass showed 275.

The FE formula presented to me here predicted a sunset 51 degrees away from that. But sure, I set my compass on the wrong thing, cause maybe there was metal there. That's what's wrong. If that's what you want to focus on, go ahead. I really don't care. Maybe next year I'll wade out into the ocean with my compass.

Look - don't get me wrong - I'm an avid RE'er - I *know* what results you should get.

All I'm saying is that if your evidence is not impeccable - the local wolves will tear it to shreds.
Hey Tom:  What path do the photons take from the physical location of the sun to my eye at sunset?

Offline mtnman

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Re: Viewing angle to sun at sunrise, sunset
« Reply #28 on: September 21, 2017, 03:55:22 PM »

Look - don't get me wrong - I'm an avid RE'er - I *know* what results you should get.

All I'm saying is that if your evidence is not impeccable - the local wolves will tear it to shreds.
I never said it was the pinnacle of scientific testing. Just a very simple experiment that anyone can reproduce on their own. And I hope some people thinking about it will just do the same test themselves.

Can't blame NASA conspiracies for the result of where the sun sets.

I also took some pictures of a high rise that was 12-13 miles down the beach. Took them from the deck just above the beach and from my balcony on the 11th floor. Just using a basic zoom lens. In one picture you can see the line of the beach, in the other you can't. Looks curved to me. But why bother posting them, someone will just crap on them because I don't have the exact height of the 11th floor of the building or something.

Offline 3DGeek

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Re: Viewing angle to sun at sunrise, sunset
« Reply #29 on: September 22, 2017, 08:06:53 PM »

Look - don't get me wrong - I'm an avid RE'er - I *know* what results you should get.

All I'm saying is that if your evidence is not impeccable - the local wolves will tear it to shreds.
I never said it was the pinnacle of scientific testing. Just a very simple experiment that anyone can reproduce on their own. And I hope some people thinking about it will just do the same test themselves.

Can't blame NASA conspiracies for the result of where the sun sets.

I also took some pictures of a high rise that was 12-13 miles down the beach. Took them from the deck just above the beach and from my balcony on the 11th floor. Just using a basic zoom lens. In one picture you can see the line of the beach, in the other you can't. Looks curved to me. But why bother posting them, someone will just crap on them because I don't have the exact height of the 11th floor of the building or something.

Yes - view-over-the-horizon arguments are hard to pin down - both sides do the experiment, each side comes up with a different result.
Hey Tom:  What path do the photons take from the physical location of the sun to my eye at sunset?