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Offline Rushy

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Re: Terrorist attack in Paris
« Reply #40 on: January 09, 2015, 04:54:27 AM »
Luckily, we have lexicographers who work very hard on identifying and recording how words are used and were used in the past, so we don't have to take your word for it.

http://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/american-english/race

Oh.

Uh oh, he searched the interwebs until he found a specific source that agrees with him. My argument is doomed.

« Last Edit: January 09, 2015, 04:57:14 AM by Irushwithscvs »

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Offline Pete Svarrior

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Re: Terrorist attack in Paris
« Reply #41 on: January 09, 2015, 04:56:00 AM »
Uh oh, he searched the interwebs until he found a specific source that agrees with him. My argument is doomed.
Feel free to present a source that supports your argument. Nonetheless, I'm fairly content that Saddam, Rama, and I knew what we were talking about. Even if you do find a source (which I doubt), your argument relies on ignoring contextual clues. I would like to ask you to either contribute to the actual discussion or shoo off.

EDIT: I've updated my post to cover all major dictionaries that come to mind.
« Last Edit: January 09, 2015, 04:57:46 AM by pizaaplanet »
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Offline Rushy

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Re: Terrorist attack in Paris
« Reply #42 on: January 09, 2015, 04:57:22 AM »
Uh oh, he searched the interwebs until he found a specific source that agrees with him. My argument is doomed.
Feel free to present a source that supports your argument. Nonetheless, I'm fairly content that Saddam, Rama, and I knew what we were talking about. Even if you do find a source (which I doubt), your argument relies on ignoring contextual clues. I would like to ask you to either contribute to the actual discussion or shoo off.

Is this the part where we have dictionary battles?

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/race

Quote
4. Humans considered as a group.

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/race#Noun_2

Quote
A group of sentient beings, particularly people, distinguished by common heritage or characteristics

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/race

Quote
a class or kind of people unified by shared interests, habits, or characteristics

Oh.
« Last Edit: January 09, 2015, 05:00:42 AM by Irushwithscvs »

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Offline Pete Svarrior

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Re: Terrorist attack in Paris
« Reply #43 on: January 09, 2015, 05:00:40 AM »
Is this the part where we have dictionary battles?

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/race
Oh, of course you'd bring up thefreedictionary.com. The one dictionary most well-known for being unreliable and containing words that do not exist.

Quote
4. Humans considered as a group.
Yes. "The human race" is a valid and common use of the word "race". It is also meaningless in the context of racism, unless you're saying that we're discriminating against humans. The other definitions I've linked to also explain that term.

I've given you a chance, but you're clearly not interested in actually contributing to the discussion. We're done here.
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Re: Terrorist attack in Paris
« Reply #44 on: January 09, 2015, 05:02:00 AM »
Stop feeding him.

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Offline Pete Svarrior

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Re: Terrorist attack in Paris
« Reply #45 on: January 09, 2015, 05:02:27 AM »
Me too. I am sick of people accepting behavior regularly considered abhorrent in the name of pluralism as if it is so lofty a goal that it should trump human rights, dignity and safety.
Agreed. I'm in favour of pluralism and diversity, but only if it doesn't get in the way of common sense.
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Offline Rushy

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Re: Terrorist attack in Paris
« Reply #46 on: January 09, 2015, 05:02:56 AM »
Oh, of course you'd bring up thefreedictionary.com. The one dictionary most well-known for being unreliable and containing words that do not exist.

Ah, sorry, I didn't realize when you said "find a source" you meant "find a source that I approve of." I'll keep that in consideration.

I've given you a chance, but you're clearly not interested in actually contributing to the discussion. We're done here.

But you brought up that Muslims aren't a race... why would you do that if you didn't want to discuss it? Did you want to be like Saddam and make a hurried statement then scurry away? Don't be like that.
« Last Edit: January 09, 2015, 05:04:43 AM by Irushwithscvs »

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Offline Pete Svarrior

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Re: Terrorist attack in Paris
« Reply #47 on: January 09, 2015, 05:05:23 AM »
Ah, sorry, I didn't realize when you said "find a source" you meant "find a source that I approve of." I'll keep that in consideration.
dictionary.omgomg.eu says ur dumb.

But you brought up that Muslims aren't a race... why would you do that if you didn't want to discuss it? Did you want to be like Saddam and make a hurried statement then scurry away? Don't be like that.
I'm happy to discuss it, but only if you play by the rules. Pointing out that the term "the human race" exists is irrelevant. I'm asking you to start contributing, and if you don't, I'll just stop responding to your posts. It's simple.
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Offline Rushy

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Re: Terrorist attack in Paris
« Reply #48 on: January 09, 2015, 05:09:11 AM »
dictionary.omgomg.eu says ur dumb.

I added more sources, including your own sources... which support my argument. You can't withdraw those sources now.

I'm happy to discuss it, but only if you play by the rules. Pointing out that the term "the human race" exists is irrelevant. I'm asking you to start contributing, and if you don't, I'll just stop responding to your posts. It's simple.

"Play by the rules"? You made a statement. I noted it was false. You tried to support that it was true, then I showed it was false, then you get mad and say "well I just won't respond anymore ur a big dumbo" Who is being the real non-contributor here? What sort of contribution was "muslims are not a race" in the first place?

Regardless of what you want to call them, Muslims are a group of people with very specific beliefs that tend towards that violent indoctrination of every culture they come into contact with. European countries don't have a problem recognizing Nazism as a really bad thing. Why are they so slow to follow that Islam is bad? How many people would be called Nazi-phobic if Hitler rose during the modern times instead of the 1930's?
« Last Edit: January 09, 2015, 05:10:54 AM by Irushwithscvs »

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Offline beardo

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Re: Terrorist attack in Paris
« Reply #49 on: January 09, 2015, 05:10:48 AM »
metalheads are a race
The Mastery.

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Offline Pete Svarrior

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Re: Terrorist attack in Paris
« Reply #50 on: January 09, 2015, 05:12:20 AM »
I added more sources, including your own sources... which support my argument. You can't withdraw those sources now.
Muslims are not distinguished by common heritage or characteristics. I already made this point.

"Play by the rules"? You made a statement. I noted it was false. You tried to support that it was true, then I showed it was false, then you get mad and say "well I just won't respond anymore ur a big dumbo" Who is being the real non-contributor here? What sort of contribution was "muslims are not a race" in the first place?
Please refrain from further derailing this thread. I will not act as a moderator in a dispute I am part of, but I'll delegate this to someone else to have a look at this. In the meantime, I will simply ignore your posts, as I do not consider them to be worthwhile or contributive for my own purposes.
« Last Edit: January 09, 2015, 05:13:52 AM by pizaaplanet »
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Re: Terrorist attack in Paris
« Reply #51 on: January 09, 2015, 05:15:43 AM »
Regardless of what you want to call them, Muslims are a group of people with very specific beliefs that tend towards that violent indoctrination of every culture they come into contact with. European countries don't have a problem recognizing Nazism as a really bad thing. Why are they so slow to follow that Islam is bad? How many people would be called Nazi-phobic if Hitler rose during the modern times instead of the 1930's?
Actually, scratch what I just said. This bit seems like a proper contribution.

As far as I understand, the decision that Nazis (and Soviets, for example) are bad was made during a very different political climate. Europe wasn't as dominated by leftists as it is now. We're being slowed down by xenophilia, which is a kneejerk reaction to the "crimes" of our white ancestors.
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Offline Rushy

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Re: Terrorist attack in Paris
« Reply #52 on: January 09, 2015, 05:18:34 AM »
Muslims are not distinguished by common heritage or characteristics. I already made this point.

Muslims all having a specific belief system is a pretty big characteristic.

As far as I understand, the decision that Nazis (and Soviets, for example) are bad was made during a very different political climate. Europe wasn't as dominated by leftists as it is now. We're being slowed down by xenophilia, which is a kneejerk reaction to the "crimes" of our white ancestors.

I can't accept that an entire continent is being torn apart because it suffers from a severe case of white guilt.

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Offline Pete Svarrior

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Re: Terrorist attack in Paris
« Reply #53 on: January 09, 2015, 05:21:54 AM »
I can't accept that an entire continent is being torn apart because it suffers from a severe case of white guilt.
The European Union is an attempt at creating a union similar to the USA. Sure, the member states enjoy much more autonomy than they do in the USA, but they share a common policy on many issues. In addition to that, with those in charge meeting frequently and discussing common issues in much more depth than they historically did, it's no wonder that they reach very similar conclusions throughout the Union.

Besides, it's only like half of the continent. See: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Islam_in_Europe-2011.svg
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Re: Terrorist attack in Paris
« Reply #54 on: January 09, 2015, 05:27:33 AM »
Of particular note is the fact that the EU has been working very hard on "tackling Islamophobia" over the recent years. They've been trying to get Muslims more engaged and integrated, hoping that they would co-exist with us in a reasonable manner. (See: http://fra.europa.eu/en/publication/2012/muslims-european-union-discrimination-and-islamophobia)

And, well, in general, this is the case. Most Muslims are ok people. The problem is that they bring certain undesirable elements along with them - be that extremists blowing shit up or fundamentalists telling us we should change some of our restaurants so that they don't serve pork. The EU wants them to integrate with our culture, but many Muslims want us to adapt instead.

In varietate concordia!

« Last Edit: January 09, 2015, 05:30:49 AM by pizaaplanet »
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Offline Rushy

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Re: Terrorist attack in Paris
« Reply #55 on: January 09, 2015, 05:32:19 AM »
The European Union is an attempt at creating a union similar to the USA. Sure, the member states enjoy much more autonomy than they do in the USA, but they share a common policy on many issues. In addition to that, with those in charge meeting frequently and discussing common issues in much more depth than they historically did, it's no wonder that they reach very similar conclusions throughout the Union.

Besides, it's only like half of the continent. See: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Islam_in_Europe-2011.svg

It also happens to be the wealthy part of the continent. I don't think that is coincidental.

I still don't get it, though. No one gets pointed at for being a Nazi-phobic when they talk about Nazism and its negative impact on society, but at the same time Islamophobe is a real thing that you can be hit with. I mean, hell, they even have a handy dandy book detailing their beliefs and intents. It's like reading the fucking Mein Kampf and thinking "eh, no big deal." Not only are these people doing shit to your country, but they're also nice enough to provide you with an outline of what they're doing and why.

I don't mean to say Muslim's are literally Hitler, but still, the comparison is apt enough to warrant a questioning of Europe's politics and not taking belief systems more seriously. For a group of countries that so easily crush some people's beliefs, they are really slow to react on other's.

Of particular note is the fact that the EU has been working very hard on "tackling Islamophobia" over the recent years. They've been trying to get Muslims more engaged and integrated, hoping that they would co-exist with us in a reasonable manner. (See: http://fra.europa.eu/en/publication/2012/muslims-european-union-discrimination-and-islamophobia)

And, well, in general, this is the case. Most Muslims are ok people. The problem is that they bring certain undesirable elements along with them - be that extremists blowing shit up or fundamentalists telling us we should change some of our restaurants so that they don't serve pork. The EU wants them to integrate with our culture, but many Muslims want us to adapt instead.

It's really hard to force a culture to integrate when that culture has very specific guidelines as to what it can and can't do. Most other major religions ignore the majority of their religious guidelines and adhere to the government, a lot Muslims are really good at doing the opposite.

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Offline Pete Svarrior

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Re: Terrorist attack in Paris
« Reply #56 on: January 09, 2015, 05:41:30 AM »
It also happens to be the wealthy part of the continent. I don't think that is coincidental.
The region that doesn't have a large Islamic population is generally considered to be "xenophobic" and is overall ethnically uniform. It's probably a combination of both factors.

I still don't get it, though. No one gets pointed at for being a Nazi-phobic when they talk about Nazism and its negative impact on society, but at the same time Islamophobe is a real thing that you can be hit with. I mean, hell, they even have a handy dandy book detailing their beliefs and intents. It's like reading the fucking Mein Kampf and thinking "eh, no big deal." Not only are these people doing shit to your country, but they're also nice enough to provide you with an outline of what they're doing and why.
I absolutely agree. But, again, the problem lies with who makes the decisions. Consider, for example, that the hammer and sickle is illegal in Poland, as is the Nazi swastika. I can't just wear a t-shirt with one of those symbols in Poland (unless I have good reason to, e.g. it's part of a show about history or something). In fact, I almost got in trouble because I had a Red Army belt buckle on my possession once while travelling - I ended up being fine because the border guard didn't want to bother. Many other people/countries would consider that to be a silly violation of the freedom of expression.

We now largely have governments who put too much emphasis on diversity and equality. Sweden is trying to apply feminism to foreign policy, for fuck's sake. Slowly, but steadily, people are getting pissed off with the left. They look for alternatives. Eventually, the support will tip. I just hope it won't be for the likes of UKIP and Front National.

I don't mean to say Muslim's are literally Hitler, but still, the comparison is apt enough to warrant a questioning of Europe's politics and not taking belief systems more seriously. For a group of countries that so easily crush some people's beliefs, they are really slow to react on other's.
[...]

It's really hard to force a culture to integrate when that culture has very specific guidelines as to what it can and can't do. Most other major religions ignore the majority of their religious guidelines and adhere to the government, a lot Muslims are really good at doing the opposite.
Again, I agree completely. I'm not trying to defend the EU policy or argue for it. I think it's silly. I'm just trying to clarify what's happening and why.
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Re: Terrorist attack in Paris
« Reply #57 on: January 09, 2015, 06:04:06 AM »
On the notion of Sweden:

http://foreignpolicy.com/2014/12/05/can-vladimir-putin-be-intimidated-by-feminism-sweden/

What?  Okay, getting more women involved, that much I understand, but the rest of this is just...what?

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Offline Pete Svarrior

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Re: Terrorist attack in Paris
« Reply #58 on: January 09, 2015, 06:12:13 AM »
Yyyyyup.
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Re: Terrorist attack in Paris
« Reply #59 on: January 09, 2015, 03:59:13 PM »
It would be a great day to rob a bank in Paris.

Two hostage crisis at once. They couldn't muster a swat team or a helicopter for you right now if you went into your local Paris branch with a shotgun and demanded all the money.