[MeMyselfAndI]

I’m looking to have a discussion with a flat earther about their hypothesis. I believe I’ve come up with a few points that disprove the earth being flat and want to see what they have to say.
Just to be clear: I would like to talk to someone who will actually read my argument, respond with reasonable logic, and not turn this into a shouting match.

[Round Eyes]

I’m looking to have a discussion with a flat earther about their hypothesis. I believe I’ve come up with a few points that disprove the earth being flat and want to see what they have to say.
Just to be clear: I would like to talk to someone who will actually read my argument, respond with reasonable logic, and not turn this into a shouting match.

i will give it a go, i dont shout, and i consider both points of view.  shoot away

[MeMyselfAndI]

I’m looking to have a discussion with a flat earther about their hypothesis. I believe I’ve come up with a few points that disprove the earth being flat and want to see what they have to say.
Just to be clear: I would like to talk to someone who will actually read my argument, respond with reasonable logic, and not turn this into a shouting match.

i will give it a go, i dont shout, and i consider both points of view.  shoot away

Ok, so I’ve heard Flat Earther’s claim that in a round Earth, planes should have to keep pointing their noses down to avoid flying into space.
So, in a flat Earth, why don’t planes circumnavigating the Earth have to keep turning North in order to avoid flying South past Antarctica and over the edge?

[Pete Svarrior]

Ok, so I’ve heard Flat Earther’s claim that in a round Earth, planes should have to keep pointing their noses down to avoid flying into space.

I think someone may have been trying to pull your leg. Flat Earthers tend to understand the Round Earth model better than that.

[MeMyselfAndI]

Ok, so I’ve heard Flat Earther’s claim that in a round Earth, planes should have to keep pointing their noses down to avoid flying into space.

I think someone may have been trying to pull your leg. Flat Earthers tend to understand the Round Earth model better than that.

Either way, can you answer the second part of the question?

[Pete Svarrior]

Either way, can you answer the second part of the question?

Define "turning". If you're using a compass to, say, keep your course due East, there will be no need for you to deviate from "due East" at any point in time.

[MeMyselfAndI]

Either way, can you answer the second part of the question?

Define "turning". If you're using a compass to, say, keep your course due East, there will be no need for you to deviate from "due East" at any point in time.

Yes, but wouldn’t a pilot notice that the compass was repeatedly ending up South of East and they repeatedly had to turn North as they made a wide circle around the North pole. Traveling East, they would end up having to turn left much more than right and the reverse for heading West.

[MeMyselfAndI]

Seeing as my first question hasn’t been followed up on and it’s been about two days, I’m going to move on to my second question.

An observer at the equator looks east. Along that same line of latitude is a tall building. The observer sees it directly East of him. However, on a flat Earth, the building, due to how the Earth curves around the North Pole, would appear slightly north of east. How can this be explained?

If you’re having trouble getting what I’m trying to say, I can draw a diagram for you.

[rabinoz]

I’m looking to have a discussion with a flat earther about their hypothesis. I believe I’ve come up with a few points that disprove the earth being flat and want to see what they have to say.
Just to be clear: I would like to talk to someone who will actually read my argument, respond with reasonable logic, and not turn this into a shouting match.

i will give it a go, i dont shout, and i consider both points of view.  shoot away

Ok, so I’ve heard Flat Earther’s claim that in a round Earth, planes should have to keep pointing their noses down to avoid flying into space.

Flat Earth believers on this site are knowledgeable enough to realise the truth behind that claim. This video by a high business jet pilot might be a little surprise:

Do aircraft change attitude to follow the curvature of the Earth?

But many Flat Earthers, outside this place, continue to use that argument, see Philip Stallings is a Reformed Christian Apologist, The Biblical Flat Earth: The "Plane" Truth.

A big problem you will find is that while those on this site have a fairly unified flat earth "model", there are numerous different flat earth interpretations outside here.

[lookatmooninUKthenAUS]

A big problem you will find is that while those on this site have a fairly unified flat earth "model", there are numerous different flat earth interpretations outside here.

Now 'unified' is a fairly kind designation. Fewer claims are made but then the trade off is this raises all sorts of unanswered questions.

Overall the problem for any theory is how to gain consensus. Science uses data that is checked and rechecked and finally cross referenced with different data sets. This creates a narrowing of allowed conditions which finally produces a well defined, well refined theory, and, in the ultimate case, the theory becomes a law or a 'fact'. It can take decades or in the case of our understanding of the motion of our solar system, many hundreds of years.

In FE land a new phenomena can crop up almost instantly. Because there doesn't need to be any data behind it, any Tom (haha), Dick or Harry can invoke their pet theory, and voila, instant answer! Celestial gravitation seems to be a good example of this. It does exist on the FE wiki, but nowhere else it would seem. And yet, FE's invoke this as if it has weight or credibility in a serious debate. In such a way the FE theory simply multiplies and becomes MORE complex as time goes on. This is more a sort of chaos theory than a FE theory. It pays no heed to the real scientific method and is completely illogical.

When the FE theory runs aground, as it did with memyselfandI's first question on the 29th, we hear silence. In any good theory the explanation of any context should be at your fingertips. It might not always be easy to explain but in the case of the RE they generally are. All the geometric, stellar and magnetic observations layer up perfectly and agree with all the data we have collected (and we have!) You will find videos claiming otherwise but they all, ALWAYS have misunderstood the very basic Physics behind the phenomena being discussed.

[MeMyselfAndI]

Can someone answer my questions?

[iamcpc]

So, in a flat Earth, why don’t planes circumnavigating the Earth have to keep turning North in order to avoid flying South past Antarctica and over the edge?

Planes that are circumnavigating the earth start off heading clockwise and continue heading clockwise until they have traveled in a circle arriving back where they originally landed. All aviation equipment is calibrated to handle 4 directions. Toward the center, away from the center, clockwise, and counterclockwise. On a round earth they are called north, south, east, and west.

[Dr David Thork]

Seeing as my first question hasn’t been followed up on and it’s been about two days, I’m going to move on to my second question.

An observer at the equator looks east. Along that same line of latitude is a tall building. The observer sees it directly East of him. However, on a flat Earth, the building, due to how the Earth curves around the North Pole, would appear slightly north of east. How can this be explained?

If you’re having trouble getting what I’m trying to say, I can draw a diagram for you.

You'll be stunned to learn you aren't the first person to ever notice this and draw it to our attention.

I'm going to use your first question to answer your second.

You have noticed that the other flat earth places claim aircraft would change altitude. And of course they wouldn't. But if they flew east, you also have to appreciate that East is NOT a straight line on a round earth. Otherwise as those flat earthers note, you'd just carry on straight into space. East is a curve around the earth.

On a flat earth we have the same thing. East is NOT a straight line. In fact the dictionary definition of East is

east
noun
a cardinal point of the compass, 90° to the right of north.

And if north is the point in the centre of a disc, then you travel in a circle around north in order to always be at 90 degrees from it.

In Flat Earth Theory, this can be confusing, because as you note, you can have a building North East of you and travel directly East to get to it.

The reality is, things that appear are East of you aren't actually East of you. ... remember its the same problem on a round earth unless you can burrow through it. But to avoid confusion, flat earthers have a more advanced co-ordinate system than their lazy round earth brethren. We actually have 6 cardinal points ... because we include turnwise and widdershins. So you now see something North East of you, and travel Widdershins to get to it. Magnetic compasses use North of course, and if you follow one East, the more precise term is you follow it widdershins ... in a circle, East is just the instantaneous direction that would have a round earther jut out into space.

I made a compass just for you. I hope you feel appreciated.

[rabinoz]

So, in a flat Earth, why don’t planes circumnavigating the Earth have to keep turning North in order to avoid flying South past Antarctica and over the edge?

Planes that are circumnavigating the earth start off heading clockwise and continue heading clockwise until they have traveled in a circle arriving back where they originally landed. All aviation equipment is calibrated to handle 4 directions. Toward the center, away from the center, clockwise, and counterclockwise. On a round earth they are called north, south, east, and west.

What about circumnavigation from north to south down to the South Pole, north to the North Pole then south to the point of departure.

Rather than clutter this thread with possibly inappropriate material, there is more in Flat Earth Community, Circumnavigation of the earth via both the South Pole and North Pole

[MeMyselfAndI]

Seeing as my first question hasn’t been followed up on and it’s been about two days, I’m going to move on to my second question.

An observer at the equator looks east. Along that same line of latitude is a tall building. The observer sees it directly East of him. However, on a flat Earth, the building, due to how the Earth curves around the North Pole, would appear slightly north of east. How can this be explained?

If you’re having trouble getting what I’m trying to say, I can draw a diagram for you.

You'll be stunned to learn you aren't the first person to ever notice this and draw it to our attention.

I'm going to use your first question to answer your second.

You have noticed that the other flat earth places claim aircraft would change altitude. And of course they wouldn't. But if they flew east, you also have to appreciate that East is NOT a straight line on a round earth. Otherwise as those flat earthers note, you'd just carry on straight into space. East is a curve around the earth.

On a flat earth we have the same thing. East is NOT a straight line. In fact the dictionary definition of East is

east
noun
a cardinal point of the compass, 90° to the right of north.

And if north is the point in the centre of a disc, then you travel in a circle around north in order to always be at 90 degrees from it.

In Flat Earth Theory, this can be confusing, because as you note, you can have a building North East of you and travel directly East to get to it.

The reality is, things that appear are East of you aren't actually East of you. ... remember its the same problem on a round earth unless you can burrow through it. But to avoid confusion, flat earthers have a more advanced co-ordinate system than their lazy round earth brethren. We actually have 6 cardinal points ... because we include turnwise and widdershins. So you now see something North East of you, and travel Widdershins to get to it. Magnetic compasses use North of course, and if you follow one East, the more precise term is you follow it widdershins ... in a circle, East is just the instantaneous direction that would have a round earther jut out into space.

I made a compass just for you. I hope you feel appreciated.

Ok, I see what you’re saying. However, can you show an actual picture of a structure on the same line of latitude as the observer that appears to be more north than it really is.

[Curious Squirrel]

Seeing as my first question hasn’t been followed up on and it’s been about two days, I’m going to move on to my second question.

An observer at the equator looks east. Along that same line of latitude is a tall building. The observer sees it directly East of him. However, on a flat Earth, the building, due to how the Earth curves around the North Pole, would appear slightly north of east. How can this be explained?

If you’re having trouble getting what I’m trying to say, I can draw a diagram for you.

You'll be stunned to learn you aren't the first person to ever notice this and draw it to our attention.

I'm going to use your first question to answer your second.

You have noticed that the other flat earth places claim aircraft would change altitude. And of course they wouldn't. But if they flew east, you also have to appreciate that East is NOT a straight line on a round earth. Otherwise as those flat earthers note, you'd just carry on straight into space. East is a curve around the earth.

On a flat earth we have the same thing. East is NOT a straight line. In fact the dictionary definition of East is

east
noun
a cardinal point of the compass, 90° to the right of north.

And if north is the point in the centre of a disc, then you travel in a circle around north in order to always be at 90 degrees from it.

In Flat Earth Theory, this can be confusing, because as you note, you can have a building North East of you and travel directly East to get to it.

The reality is, things that appear are East of you aren't actually East of you. ... remember its the same problem on a round earth unless you can burrow through it. But to avoid confusion, flat earthers have a more advanced co-ordinate system than their lazy round earth brethren. We actually have 6 cardinal points ... because we include turnwise and widdershins. So you now see something North East of you, and travel Widdershins to get to it. Magnetic compasses use North of course, and if you follow one East, the more precise term is you follow it widdershins ... in a circle, East is just the instantaneous direction that would have a round earther jut out into space.

I made a compass just for you. I hope you feel appreciated.

Ok, I see what you’re saying. However, can you show an actual picture of a structure on the same line of latitude as the observer that appears to be more north than it really is.

Just a reminder, this effect will occur upon a globe Earth as well. The magnitude of the effect will of course vary with ones distance from the equator (as will which direction depending on which way you go off the equator) but as the RE Earth is a sphere, you will see things on the same line of latitude verge slightly to the N/S of a line tangent to that latitude in any location other than the equator. This effect is why the lines of longitude narrow into a single point on both the North and South poles. So showing an image of this would prove nothing without an exacting degree of accuracy (or if it 'bent' to the South in the Southern Hemisphere but even then sufficient accuracy would be required.)

[MeMyselfAndI]

Seeing as my first question hasn’t been followed up on and it’s been about two days, I’m going to move on to my second question.

An observer at the equator looks east. Along that same line of latitude is a tall building. The observer sees it directly East of him. However, on a flat Earth, the building, due to how the Earth curves around the North Pole, would appear slightly north of east. How can this be explained?

If you’re having trouble getting what I’m trying to say, I can draw a diagram for you.

You'll be stunned to learn you aren't the first person to ever notice this and draw it to our attention.

I'm going to use your first question to answer your second.

You have noticed that the other flat earth places claim aircraft would change altitude. And of course they wouldn't. But if they flew east, you also have to appreciate that East is NOT a straight line on a round earth. Otherwise as those flat earthers note, you'd just carry on straight into space. East is a curve around the earth.

On a flat earth we have the same thing. East is NOT a straight line. In fact the dictionary definition of East is

east
noun
a cardinal point of the compass, 90° to the right of north.

And if north is the point in the centre of a disc, then you travel in a circle around north in order to always be at 90 degrees from it.

In Flat Earth Theory, this can be confusing, because as you note, you can have a building North East of you and travel directly East to get to it.

The reality is, things that appear are East of you aren't actually East of you. ... remember its the same problem on a round earth unless you can burrow through it. But to avoid confusion, flat earthers have a more advanced co-ordinate system than their lazy round earth brethren. We actually have 6 cardinal points ... because we include turnwise and widdershins. So you now see something North East of you, and travel Widdershins to get to it. Magnetic compasses use North of course, and if you follow one East, the more precise term is you follow it widdershins ... in a circle, East is just the instantaneous direction that would have a round earther jut out into space.

I made a compass just for you. I hope you feel appreciated.

Ok, I see what you’re saying. However, can you show an actual picture of a structure on the same line of latitude as the observer that appears to be more north than it really is.

Just a reminder, this effect will occur upon a globe Earth as well. The magnitude of the effect will of course vary with ones distance from the equator (as will which direction depending on which way you go off the equator) but as the RE Earth is a sphere, you will see things on the same line of latitude verge slightly to the N/S of a line tangent to that latitude in any location other than the equator. This effect is why the lines of longitude narrow into a single point on both the North and South poles. So showing an image of this would prove nothing without an exacting degree of accuracy (or if it 'bent' to the South in the Southern Hemisphere but even then sufficient accuracy would be required.)

Yeah, I guess that could only be proven at the equator.