Re: The Great NASA Conspiracy
« Reply #20 on: May 01, 2016, 04:30:06 PM »
The claim was that the amount of foresight and cooperation required would be super-human.
No, it might seem super-human to you, just as acrobats, mathematicians, and magicians might seem super-human to you.
They aren't, they just know things you don't and possess skills that you lack.

We know how acrobats and magicians do what they do, or at least we know that it's within human capabilities. What no one has explained is how a conspiracy with the size and scope of the alleged NASA conspiracy could plausibly be carried out. The Apollo program began over 50 years ago, and tens of thousands of people have been connected with NASA in one way or another as employees, contractors, family members of the above, etc. There have been no whistleblowers, deathbed confessions, drunken admissions, people selling their tell-alls to tabloids, people finding Jesus and deciding to confess the truth, or other indications of a conspiracy. I've invited the conspiracy theorists to visit my university to meet some people who have had close, direct dealings with NASA for decades (including a former astronaut), to get a taste of reality, offering $100 as an incentive. I think my money is safe.
« Last Edit: May 01, 2016, 04:44:06 PM by Roundabout »

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Offline Captain Magpie

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Re: The Great NASA Conspiracy
« Reply #21 on: May 01, 2016, 05:50:11 PM »
How are they "secretly running the entirety of civilization"?

Look at Setec's post again. He claims a conspiracy across all world governments (and Youtubers).

You mean this? "But back to NASA and the rest of the space agencies (that we commoners are meant to believe are different entities, just as we are meant to believe our governments are controlled by different entities... it's all part of maintaining a divide-and-conquer Hegelian dialectic) - they reveal themselves as frauds in their hoaxy astronaut videos all the time."

I don't see an issue with that statmente. Check out the Chinese space walk:


If you know anything about the Chinese government it is not at all surprising they would fake this to make themselves look good. And just because one crooked and dishonest government made a fake space video doesn't mean all of them do. China just sucks and wanted to play with the big boys.

Setec Astronomy

Re: The Great NASA Conspiracy
« Reply #22 on: May 01, 2016, 06:48:47 PM »
We know how acrobats and magicians do what they do
"The Turk" fooled people for over a hundred years. The Fatima illusion (aka "miracle of the sun") also continues to beguile people. As do space agency rocket launches, whose setup is not unlike Copperfield's vanishing of the Statue of Liberty.

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What no one has explained is how a conspiracy with the size and scope of the alleged NASA conspiracy could plausibly be carried out. The Apollo program began over 50 years ago, and tens of thousands of people have been connected with NASA in one way or another as employees, contractors, family members of the above, etc.
Do you think they give all information to all people along with a pamphlet to take home to the fam? Does the guy working the popcorn stand in the theater also know how all the performing magician's tricks are done?

One thing you seem to be completely unaware of is the compartmentalized nature of information, and how certain secrets are treated as the "holy of holies" which only a select few will ever be allowed to see the workings of.

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Offline Captain Magpie

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Re: The Great NASA Conspiracy
« Reply #23 on: May 01, 2016, 06:57:29 PM »
We know how acrobats and magicians do what they do
"The Turk" fooled people for over a hundred years. The Fatima illusion (aka "miracle of the sun") also continues to beguile people. As do space agency rocket launches, whose setup is not unlike Copperfield's vanishing of the Statue of Liberty.

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What no one has explained is how a conspiracy with the size and scope of the alleged NASA conspiracy could plausibly be carried out. The Apollo program began over 50 years ago, and tens of thousands of people have been connected with NASA in one way or another as employees, contractors, family members of the above, etc.
Do you think they give all information to all people along with a pamphlet to take home to the fam? Does the guy working the popcorn stand in the theater also know how all the performing magician's tricks are done?

One thing you seem to be completely unaware of is the compartmentalized nature of information, and how certain secrets are treated as the "holy of holies" which only a select few will ever be allowed to see the workings of.
All that would mean is that bits and pieces would have leaked out until enough was gathered that you could see the whole picture. We know from history that it is just impossible for something that big to remain completely secret.

Re: The Great NASA Conspiracy
« Reply #24 on: May 01, 2016, 07:25:14 PM »
No, it might seem super-human to you, just as acrobats, mathematicians, and magicians might seem super-human to you.
They aren't, they just know things you don't and possess skills that you lack.

I can't tell if this is supposed to be a veiled insult. Anyways, just telling me "no you're wrong" isn't terribly likely to convince me.

"The Turk" fooled people for over a hundred years. The Fatima illusion (aka "miracle of the sun") also continues to beguile people. As do space agency rocket launches, whose setup is not unlike Copperfield's vanishing of the Statue of Liberty.

So a hoax machine (which only fooled people for 50 years) is analogous to a worldwide conspiracy? An unexplained phenomenon is? How do these things demonstrate the cooperation and foresight necessary to secretly rule the world?

By the way, why would anyone possibly want to secretly rule the world? It seems to me that ruling a country would be sufficient for any ego.


Do you think they give all information to all people along with a pamphlet to take home to the fam? Does the guy working the popcorn stand in the theater also know how all the performing magician's tricks are done?

One thing you seem to be completely unaware of is the compartmentalized nature of information, and how certain secrets are treated as the "holy of holies" which only a select few will ever be allowed to see the workings of.

Compartmentalization works for keeping secrets. But your conspiracy needs to actively rule the world, not just stay in hiding. To do that it needs to influence a lot of decisions, all of which is a potential source if evidence.

Setec Astronomy

Re: The Great NASA Conspiracy
« Reply #25 on: May 01, 2016, 10:04:33 PM »
No, it might seem super-human to you, just as acrobats, mathematicians, and magicians might seem super-human to you.
They aren't, they just know things you don't and possess skills that you lack.

I can't tell if this is supposed to be a veiled insult.
It is a statement of fact. Or do you claim to be a Chinese acrobat mathematician conjuror?

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Anyways, just telling me "no you're wrong" isn't terribly likely to convince me.
If that's what you gleaned from it, I suggest working on reading comprehension.

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"The Turk" fooled people for over a hundred years. The Fatima illusion (aka "miracle of the sun") also continues to beguile people. As do space agency rocket launches, whose setup is not unlike Copperfield's vanishing of the Statue of Liberty.

So a hoax machine (which only fooled people for 50 years) is analogous to a worldwide conspiracy? An unexplained phenomenon is? How do these things demonstrate the cooperation and foresight necessary to secretly rule the world?
What they demonstrate is someone with secret knowledge can deceive the world. They can fool emperors, the elect, and the hoi polloi. With the right patter and misdirection, magic tricks from a CrackerJack box can fool scientists.

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But your conspiracy needs to actively rule the world, not just stay in hiding. To do that it needs to influence a lot of decisions, all of which is a potential source if evidence.
I don't think you understand how hierarchies work. Once you get to the levels of nation-state politicians (who are all actors playing parts anyway), the hierarchies become completely hidden from public.  These people are in it up to their necks, and none of them are likely to ever sacrifice themselves, their families, as well as their heirs just to try to tell people who will not believe them anyway and who don't even question the symbolism staring them in the face on dollar bills.

Setec Astronomy

Re: The Great NASA Conspiracy
« Reply #26 on: May 02, 2016, 03:05:53 AM »
One thing you seem to be completely unaware of is the compartmentalized nature of information, and how certain secrets are treated as the "holy of holies" which only a select few will ever be allowed to see the workings of.
All that would mean is that bits and pieces would have leaked out until enough was gathered that you could see the whole picture. We know from history that it is just impossible for something that big to remain completely secret.
But that is the point - bits and pieces have "leaked out", or rather bits and pieces are noticebly fraudulent.

If you watch the majority of the "onboard the ISS" videos with a critical eye, you'll notice there is something severely wrong with the way the astronauts move and change direction as though inertia was not a factor in their movement. Even in free-fall weightlessness a 80kg person still has 80kg of mass. Moving, turning, slowing, stopping would all take considerable exertion, yet the astronauts do it with without effort. Makes no sense in the context of a truly weightless environment, but makes lots of sense if they are simply in a green-screen room suspended by harnesses with most of the motion occuring with the camera and post-production editing instead of the (actor) actually reorienting himself.

The public at large unfortunately does not have an intuitive grasp of momentum and how it works, so feeble special effects is all it takes to fool them. Most of the time they don't even bother to use the simulated weightlessness of a "vomit comet". Composite video is far easier and has the added bonus of being able to have long sequences without edits, whereas the vomit comets only get around 30 seconds or so of time for weightless acrobatics.

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Offline Venus

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Re: The Great NASA Conspiracy
« Reply #27 on: May 02, 2016, 03:43:49 AM »
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One thing you seem to be completely unaware of is the compartmentalized nature of information, and how certain secrets are treated as the "holy of holies" which only a select few will ever be allowed to see the workings of.

Bill Clinton couldn't keep a blow job a secret, Nixon couldn't keep a break-in secret, even with vain attempts to cover it up !!
How could NASA's "secrets" still be secret??

Oh and why was the earth considered to be round by every astronomer since the time of Eratosthenes in Ancient Greece ??

Who bribed/paid Copernicus, Tycho Brahe, Galileo, Eratosthenes, Ptolemy, Keppler,  Newton, Halley, Aristarchus, Aristotle, Hubble and Einstein (who died in 1955) ... who all supported the spherical earth theory but who all died before NASA was formed in 1958...

Now try to convince me that this world wide conspiracy has been going on for 2500 years !!
« Last Edit: May 15, 2016, 02:01:38 PM by Venus »
Because I live on the 'bottom' of a spinning spherical earth ...
*I cannot see Polaris, but I can see the Southern Cross
*When I look at the stars they appear to rotate clockwise, not anti-clockwise
*I see the moon 'upside down'
I've travelled to the Northern Hemisphere numerous times ... and seen how different the stars and the moon are 'up' there!
Come on down and check it out FE believers... !!

Setec Astronomy

Re: The Great NASA Conspiracy
« Reply #28 on: May 02, 2016, 04:13:46 AM »
Who bribed/paid Copernicus, Tycho Brahe, Galileo, Eratosthenes, Ptolemy, Keppler,  Newton, Halley, Aristarchus, Aristotle, Hubble and Einstein (who died in 1955) ... who all supported the spherical earth theory
How many Popes have there been. Do you think their number and the longevity of their ideas means it's true? (I certainly don't)

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Now try to convince me that this world wide conspiracy has been going on for 2500 years !!
Your mind is quite closed so I doubt you could become convinced of anything you had not previously decided is true.

But I will say this - if you want to remove a people's belief in a personal creator and get them to focus on strictly materialistic matters that will benefit kings and merchants - convincing them that their whole world is an insignificant speck in a universe filled with other such worlds is a very effective method for achieving this.
« Last Edit: May 02, 2016, 04:15:21 AM by Setec Astronomy »

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Offline Captain Magpie

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Re: The Great NASA Conspiracy
« Reply #29 on: May 02, 2016, 07:21:48 PM »
One thing you seem to be completely unaware of is the compartmentalized nature of information, and how certain secrets are treated as the "holy of holies" which only a select few will ever be allowed to see the workings of.
All that would mean is that bits and pieces would have leaked out until enough was gathered that you could see the whole picture. We know from history that it is just impossible for something that big to remain completely secret.
But that is the point - bits and pieces have "leaked out", or rather bits and pieces are noticebly fraudulent.

If you watch the majority of the "onboard the ISS" videos with a critical eye, you'll notice there is something severely wrong with the way the astronauts move and change direction as though inertia was not a factor in their movement. Even in free-fall weightlessness a 80kg person still has 80kg of mass. Moving, turning, slowing, stopping would all take considerable exertion, yet the astronauts do it with without effort. Makes no sense in the context of a truly weightless environment, but makes lots of sense if they are simply in a green-screen room suspended by harnesses with most of the motion occuring with the camera and post-production editing instead of the (actor) actually reorienting himself.

The public at large unfortunately does not have an intuitive grasp of momentum and how it works, so feeble special effects is all it takes to fool them. Most of the time they don't even bother to use the simulated weightlessness of a "vomit comet". Composite video is far easier and has the added bonus of being able to have long sequences without edits, whereas the vomit comets only get around 30 seconds or so of time for weightless acrobatics.
I wouldn't quite call it a leak if the only place that information gets disseminated to is an obscure website that no one really visits, and of those that do, most don't take seriously. I'm talking we would have something in larger circles with a clear whistleblowers and some documented evidence. Snowden is the most common name known about our spying issues here but he was far from the first NSA whistleblower.

Also, you do realize that weightlessness means just that right? It would take as much effort to move there as it does for you move a feather here so it looks like fundamental understanding is flawed so you see issues where none exist. If anything, if they were faking it I would expect to see more force needed, like say, if you were pushing through water and not in space. With no one being in any kind of scuba gear then I would wonder how they would only appearing to be weightless for so long. Video editing can do a lot for sure, but it can only do so much.

Setec Astronomy

Re: The Great NASA Conspiracy
« Reply #30 on: May 02, 2016, 10:44:08 PM »
I wouldn't quite call it a leak if the only place that information gets disseminated to is an obscure website that no one really visits, and of those that do, most don't take seriously.
I have no idea what website you're referring to. All you have to do is watch the videos put out by NASA and other space agencies and you can see for yourself the astronauts momentum when moving about is practically non-existent. You just have to look at it with your own eyes and use your brain.

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Also, you do realize that weightlessness means just that right?
Do you realize that weghtlessness is not masslessness? Do you even know what mass and momentum are? I guess you can be counted among the dimwitted hoi poilloi with no grasp of the concept of inertia.
« Last Edit: May 02, 2016, 10:48:14 PM by Setec Astronomy »

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Offline Captain Magpie

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Re: The Great NASA Conspiracy
« Reply #31 on: May 02, 2016, 11:50:22 PM »
I wouldn't quite call it a leak if the only place that information gets disseminated to is an obscure website that no one really visits, and of those that do, most don't take seriously.
I have no idea what website you're referring to. All you have to do is watch the videos put out by NASA and other space agencies and you can see for yourself the astronauts momentum when moving about is practically non-existent. You just have to look at it with your own eyes and use your brain.

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Also, you do realize that weightlessness means just that right?
Do you realize that weghtlessness is not masslessness? Do you even know what mass and momentum are? I guess you can be counted among the dimwitted hoi poilloi with no grasp of the concept of inertia.
Or you are just grasping at straws. If I can move my body without much effort here, then why would it suddenly become harder if weight was removed from the equation?

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Offline rabinoz

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Re: The Great NASA Conspiracy
« Reply #32 on: May 03, 2016, 02:42:27 AM »
When and where did this great  ;D conspiracy  ;D start.

Must have been well before old Ptolemy's time and must have been in the Islamic world as well, where modern geodetic is said to have started!

An Islamic Astronomer/Mathematician/Geodetic Surveyor named Al-Biruni measured the circumference of the earth (guess HE thought it was a sphere!) quite accurately way back around 1,000 AD.
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So Exactly how accurate was Biruni ?
With his formula Biruni arrived at the value of the circumference of the earth within 200 miles of the actual value of 24,902 miles, that is less then 1% of error. Biruni's stated radius of 6335.725 km is also very close to the original value.
From Al-Biruni's Classic Experiment
So, who was this Al-Biruni? Look in Lost Islamic History, AL-BIRUNI: A MASTER OF SCHOLARSHIP. There are many other references: Muslim Heritage
  ::) :o ::)  Maybe NASA has infiltrated these Islamic websites as well.  :o ::) :o

And Al-Biruni was by no means the first Astronomy in the Medieval Islamic World.

I am referring to these simply because we so often forget that there were great Astronomers, Scientists and Mathematicians in other cultures and while in the so-caled "Dark Ages" in Western Europe there was much going on in the Middle East and India. And many of them simply accepted the earth as a Globe! Look where Algebra (an Arabic word), time and angle measurement originated!

Yes, you are about 950 years late blaming NASA!
Frankly the whole idea of a conspiracy to hide shape of the earth is nothing more that self-delusion - then blaming it on NASA is simply ludicrous.

Re: The Great NASA Conspiracy
« Reply #33 on: May 03, 2016, 03:08:59 AM »

If you know anything about the Chinese government it is not at all surprising they would fake this to make themselves look good. And just because one crooked and dishonest government made a fake space video doesn't mean all of them do. China just sucks and wanted to play with the big boys.

I have had extensive dealings with Chinese tech and I for one would never go into a death vacuum with that tech. I have had multiple failings from Chinese components, and even tried to revise some of the parts before chunking them. C rate materials and zero QC are the first things that come to mind.


By the way, why would anyone possibly want to secretly rule the world? It seems to me that ruling a country would be sufficient for any ego.


When you become obsessed and drunk on power...enough is never enough. The billionare wants to become a trillionare. The leader of a country wants the world...you get the point.
« Last Edit: May 03, 2016, 03:25:56 AM by babyhighspeed »

Setec Astronomy

Re: The Great NASA Conspiracy
« Reply #34 on: May 03, 2016, 03:23:35 AM »
If I can move my body without much effort here, then why would it suddenly become harder if weight was removed from the equation?
If you want to move in weightlessness, you have to grab hold of something and pull your (60, 70, 80) kilogram mass. If you want to change the direction you're moving, you have to grab something to slow you down - and if you grab something with your hands, you have to hold hard because your entire mass (head, torso, legs) is also moving with momentum.

An old equation that holds true is F = m*a
(force equals mass times acceleration)
« Last Edit: May 03, 2016, 03:27:57 AM by Setec Astronomy »

Re: The Great NASA Conspiracy
« Reply #35 on: May 03, 2016, 03:34:07 AM »
So it is proposed that compartmentalizing the info prevents any massive leaks? If their are leaks then the doors are shut and the head is cut off? Kind of like a ship if their is a breach in the hull, holds the water to a certain area, yet it doesn't sink the ship?

You have to admit, history says that this isn't probable, but is plausible.

Setec Astronomy

Re: The Great NASA Conspiracy
« Reply #36 on: May 03, 2016, 05:20:29 AM »
You have to admit, history says that this isn't probable, but is plausible.
The public never heard anything about the Manhattan Project until after WW2. Scientists censored themselves and publications that had anything to do with atomic power (who knows - if they hadn't censored discussion it might have been known the whole thing was also a psy-op - on the public!)

Re: The Great NASA Conspiracy
« Reply #37 on: May 03, 2016, 08:32:17 AM »
I will always wonder, why? Every conspiracy has a why.
Why fake the moon landing? To fool the Russians into thinking we had better tech.
Why would 9/11 be an inside job? To give the US a reason to invade the Middle East.

The is always a reason to the cover-ups (and often the most realistic part of any crackpot theory). I can never fathom why NASA would cover up the truth, or in the more unlikely scenario, multiple countries are working hand in hand to hide the truth. What is there to gain in hiding it, what is there to lose if the whistle is blown? If its a global conspiracy everyone is in on, it clearly isn't political, or about resources. It definitely isn't for keeping peace (home or abroad). And the further this conspiracy goes back, the more possible reasons begin to make less sense. Entire cultures have come and gone, cities leveled and empires fallen. It is very implausible for this group to have maintained power over everyone for so long without having something inhuman (themselves or technology) in their possession.

Occasional poster, frequent observer.
Round Earth.

RE is a complex theory of simple answers.
FE is a simple theory of complex answers.


Also ignoring intikam.

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Offline Woody

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Re: The Great NASA Conspiracy
« Reply #38 on: May 03, 2016, 10:53:46 AM »
I will always wonder, why? Every conspiracy has a why.
Why fake the moon landing? To fool the Russians into thinking we had better tech.
Why would 9/11 be an inside job? To give the US a reason to invade the Middle East.

The is always a reason to the cover-ups (and often the most realistic part of any crackpot theory). I can never fathom why NASA would cover up the truth, or in the more unlikely scenario, multiple countries are working hand in hand to hide the truth. What is there to gain in hiding it, what is there to lose if the whistle is blown? If its a global conspiracy everyone is in on, it clearly isn't political, or about resources. It definitely isn't for keeping peace (home or abroad). And the further this conspiracy goes back, the more possible reasons begin to make less sense. Entire cultures have come and gone, cities leveled and empires fallen. It is very implausible for this group to have maintained power over everyone for so long without having something inhuman (themselves or technology) in their possession.

This is what I do not understand about the RE conspiracy.  As conspiracies go, hiding the shape of the Earth really makes no sense.  Plus it has to have been going on for a rather long time well before NASA.

So throughout history there is:

NASA and every other space agency
Astronomers
Pilots and ship crews
Cartographers
Geodetic surveyors
Almost everyone involved in the Earth sciences
Amateur radio operators
Satellite TV installers
Amateur astronomers

That is all I can think of right now that at least some should have figured out some thing is wrong or keeping silent about it.

If they all are not in on it then somehow the error in assuming the Earth is not flat has not resulted in errors resonating through many fields.

İntikam

Re: The Great NASA Conspiracy
« Reply #39 on: May 03, 2016, 11:17:02 AM »
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Actually we do, Tom. Tell you what. If you or another FE believer will come visit my university (I’m in the Midwest), I’ll give you $100 (but only one of you, please) on the sole condition that you talk with at least one of the following friends and coworkers about FET and your views on NASA and allow me to witness the conversation (I’m withholding their names because I don’t want to put them at risk for harassment):


Don't believe him. He is a head hunter that taking $200 per FEB head.  ;D

He thinks himself awake.

I'm in middle east that everyday boms exploding you come here and accept live 3 days here i'll give you 500$s  ;D