Offline Love

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Re: Friendly Debate
« Reply #20 on: April 25, 2016, 12:21:38 PM »
Ok, I am a relatively firm believer that the Earth is round, though I would be interested if somebody could explain to me their point of view. I have a few questions I would like to ask: Where is the proof that the Earth is flat? How would a flat Earth actually work? What causes gravity in FET? What proof do you have that RET is wrong?

I am new to this.   I do not know what to believe.   A few weeks ago I would have scoffed at the notion that the Earth was just as described in science books.   However, our leaders care for us but only in the same sense as a farmer cares for his livestock; the lord of the manor doesn't really respect what the peasants think.  A man is driven by his appetites and guided by what he believes.  If you can control what a man or woman believes then you can control their actions and command their loyalty which translates to political power.  I don't trust people in power and I think todays scientists are shysters.  I do not know who or what to believe.

Neither do I understand the mentality of people who will argue with people they claim are either dishonest or crazy.  Liars are to be ignored and fools are to be humored.... unless you are an internet debunker!  If that is the case then you argue with the fool or engage the liar in debate.  All for the purpose of spreading mendacious propaganda as I see it.  I have yet to meet an internet debunker that comes off as anything more than a dilettante.   Why should I believe them?  I would be more persuaded that they actually believed what they were saying if their attitude was one of indifference.  But, they seem to have passion which makes me wonder?

Offline Love

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Re: Friendly Debate
« Reply #21 on: April 25, 2016, 12:26:46 PM »
"A few weeks ago I would have scoffed at the notion that the Earth was just as described in science books. "  I meant to say 'wasn't".   mea culpa

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Offline Pete Svarrior

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Re: Friendly Debate
« Reply #22 on: April 25, 2016, 12:41:39 PM »
An interesting observation. The mentality of some of our more... passionate "debunkers" has always intrigued me.
Read the FAQ before asking your question - chances are we already addressed it.
Follow the Flat Earth Society on Twitter and Facebook!

P.S.  All of us illiterate folks understood this the first time.

Offline Love

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Re: Friendly Debate
« Reply #23 on: April 25, 2016, 12:59:31 PM »
An interesting observation. The mentality of some of our more... passionate "debunkers" has always intrigued me.

I think lawyers are smarter than scientists.  I base this on the fact that lawyers more than any of the rest of us know how to use language.  Lawyers run things and scientists are servants.  Lawyers understand that, in terms of human affairs, the truth is illusive; what people can be convinced of is more important than what is actually true.  Science very easily can slip into sophistry and it can be hard to tell the difference sometimes.


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Offline BlueMoon

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Re: Friendly Debate
« Reply #24 on: April 25, 2016, 02:30:49 PM »
An interesting observation. The mentality of some of our more... passionate "debunkers" has always intrigued me.

I think lawyers are smarter than scientists.  I base this on the fact that lawyers more than any of the rest of us know how to use language.  Lawyers run things and scientists are servants.  Lawyers understand that, in terms of human affairs, the truth is illusive; what people can be convinced of is more important than what is actually true.  Science very easily can slip into sophistry and it can be hard to tell the difference sometimes.
The truth is elusive; the facts are not.  It's a fact that the earth is round, whether or not the people on this site choose to realize that. 


Lawyers know the law, but they manipulate it and use it to manipulate others for the benefit of their clients and themselves.  On the other hand, scientists are seeking to discover more about the world.  Engineers use the work from scientists to create innovative machines and systems.  I'm here because I won't stand to see hardworking scientists and engineers slurred and accused of lying by people with no knowledge of physics, science, math, or logic. 
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Offline Love

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Re: Friendly Debate
« Reply #25 on: April 25, 2016, 03:47:10 PM »
 "I'm here because I won't stand to see hardworking scientists and engineers slurred and accused of lying by people with no knowledge of physics, science, math, or logic.  "  I doubt it.  What are you afraid will happen if you just stopped posting on sites like this?    Do you think the only thing between enlightenment and a new dark ages is you?  Indifference would be a stronger statement supporting your viewpoint than your biased rhetoric.  By the way those, "hardworking scientists and engineers" have no qualms what so ever making weapons of mass destruction for crazy despots.   What Oppenheimer and that crew did was worse than giving a disturbed child a loaded gun.   

Offline Love

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Re: Friendly Debate
« Reply #26 on: April 25, 2016, 03:54:41 PM »
"The truth is elusive; the facts are not."  Not a true statement.   Evidence is not always trustworthy as it can be misinterpreted or manufactured.   The facts are often in question.   Which is why we have lawyers and courts and which is why lawyers have the great power they have.  Scientists don't have power.   They are cheap and always subservient.  Kaiku, Tyson, Nye, Dawkins, Hawking, et al amount to being hucksters.

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Offline BlueMoon

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Re: Friendly Debate
« Reply #27 on: April 25, 2016, 04:10:55 PM »
"The truth is elusive; the facts are not."  Not a true statement.   Evidence is not always trustworthy as it can be misinterpreted or manufactured.   The facts are often in question.   Which is why we have lawyers and courts and which is why lawyers have the great power they have.  Scientists don't have power.   They are cheap and always subservient.  Kaiku, Tyson, Nye, Dawkins, Hawking, et al amount to being hucksters.


Subservient to whom?  In general, the only thing they're "subservient" to is knowledge, i.e. increasing our understanding of the universe.  If you're anti-science, you're pro-ignorance. 
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Offline Love

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Re: Friendly Debate
« Reply #28 on: April 25, 2016, 05:11:54 PM »


"Subservient to whom?  In general, the only thing they're "subservient" to is knowledge, i.e. increasing our understanding of the universe.  If you're anti-science, you're pro-ignorance. "


They are subservient to whoever signs their paychecks.   Your statement is a lot of emotional garbage and not well thought at all.  There is more to life than science.  In fact people can be happy, healthy and live long lives without it.   Lawyers Rule!  Scientists are just intellectual grunts.

Re: Friendly Debate
« Reply #29 on: April 25, 2016, 05:27:09 PM »
I think lawyers are smarter than scientists.  I base this on the fact that lawyers more than any of the rest of us know how to use language.  Lawyers run things and scientists are servants. 

I believe in God and I go to church (Methodist) regularly and read my Bible.

"For who is greater, the one who is at the table or the one who serves? Is it not the one who is at the table? But I am among you as one who serves" -- Luke 22:27

Seems a bit hypocritical to insult scientists for being servants. There are plenty of professions that have fewer people in positions of power than lawyers. Are doctors stupid too? Artists? Athletes? Mathematicians? Pastors?

Re: Friendly Debate
« Reply #30 on: April 26, 2016, 02:49:35 AM »
By the way those, "hardworking scientists and engineers" have no qualms what so ever making weapons of mass destruction for crazy despots. 

I have been away from here for a short time and I come back to that?? You can thank mutual destruction for saving millions of lives. Sure there are bad seeds everywhere....but that statement is rediculous.

Go hug a puppy.

For the record I love puppies

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Offline Rounder

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Re: Friendly Debate
« Reply #31 on: April 26, 2016, 03:51:12 AM »
They are subservient to whoever signs their paychecks....Lawyers Rule!  Scientists are just intellectual grunts.

Are you under the impression that lawyers don't draw paychecks?  Do you think Big Oil, Big Pharma, or Big (fill in your bad guy of choice) have all their lawyers working for the love of the cause?
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Offline Love

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Re: Friendly Debate
« Reply #32 on: April 26, 2016, 12:31:48 PM »
They are subservient to whoever signs their paychecks....Lawyers Rule!  Scientists are just intellectual grunts.

Are you under the impression that lawyers don't draw paychecks?  Do you think Big Oil, Big Pharma, or Big (fill in your bad guy of choice) have all their lawyers working for the love of the cause?

Of course they draw paychecks.   They (the smart ones) draw paychecks for running things because they are leaders and they have balls unlike scientists.  Not every king, president, sovereign is a lawyer but they all have batteries of lawyers as lawyers are necessary in keeping order.   Science needs order in order to function.

Having said that:  I conclude that lawyers are smarter than the rest of us.  Lawyers understand how to use the language better than the rest of us.  Lawyers also understand that what is true is often elusive and that what you can convince people of is more important than what is true at least in regard to human affairs.  Do I trust lawyers?  No , I don't.   Men are born liars.   I can't trust you and I don't expect you to trust me.   Sometimes I can't trust myself.

 I don't trust any authority.   I don't accept as true anything I can't prove to myself firsthand.

Offline Love

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Re: Friendly Debate
« Reply #33 on: April 26, 2016, 12:49:38 PM »
I don't understand why debunkers come here to argue with flat earth people.   Consider:  case 1) flat earth adherents are either hoaxers, dim or lunatic fringe.   I glean from threads like these that this is the case.   If anyone can think of another case I would be happy to hear it.

Case 1:  flat earth adherents are hoaxers.    If you argue with them you are only giving them the attention they want and you aren't really advancing your viewpoint.   Therefore you are stupid.

Case 2:  flat earthers are dim.    If you engage them in an argument it means you are picking on a poor wretch and that makes you a cruel bully.  And, again, you are being stupid if you think you are advancing your viewpoint.

Case 3: flat earthers are lunatics.    If you engage them in and argument it means you are cruel.   And again that is stupid.

I can't believe that some of you actually believe you are on a noble quest to defend science because 'science is the best hope for mankind'.  Delusions of grandeur!  A sign of emotional/mental problems.  Indifference to the flat earth argument would be more convincing than your sophistic arguments.  If it's lunatic fringe why not feel sorry for the poor wretches?  How can they threaten scientific advancement.

Unless something is scaring you your behavior makes no sense.  The only answer I can come up with are you guys are either cruel or stupid.

Offline Love

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Re: Friendly Debate
« Reply #34 on: April 26, 2016, 12:51:28 PM »
What Oppenheimer and crew did was akin to giving a disturbed child a loaded gun only on a much larger scale.  I heard Oppenheimer died a depressed and broken man.  That's what he gets for being a military toady.

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Offline Jura-Glenlivet

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Re: Friendly Debate
« Reply #35 on: April 26, 2016, 03:55:40 PM »
  I heard Oppenheimer died a depressed and broken man.  That's what he gets for being a military toady.

Schadenfreude? Not very Love filled or christian.
Just to be clear, you are all terrific, but everything you say is exactly what a moron would say.

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Offline Rounder

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Re: Friendly Debate
« Reply #36 on: April 26, 2016, 04:04:12 PM »
I don't understand why debunkers come here to argue with flat earth people.

Case 1:  flat earth adherents are hoaxers.    If you argue with them you are only giving them the attention they want and you aren't really advancing your viewpoint.   Therefore you are stupid.

Case 2:  flat earthers are dim.    If you engage them in an argument it means you are picking on a poor wretch and that makes you a cruel bully.  And, again, you are being stupid if you think you are advancing your viewpoint.

Case 3: flat earthers are lunatics.    If you engage them in and argument it means you are cruel.   And again that is stupid.

Case 4: There are individual flat earthers who fit each of the cases above, and who fall on a spectrum between options as well.  I engage in discussion here NOT in the hopes of moving a true believer off his or her conviction, but in order to arm with knowledge those kids who come here after hearing the likes of Tila Tequila or B.o.B talking about flat earth.  I want to convince THEM that the flat earth side is wrong.  I know full well that an adult true-believer is beyond my reach, just as they know that I am beyond their reach.
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Offline Love

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Re: Friendly Debate
« Reply #37 on: April 26, 2016, 06:27:46 PM »
I don't understand why debunkers come here to argue with flat earth people.

Case 1:  flat earth adherents are hoaxers.    If you argue with them you are only giving them the attention they want and you aren't really advancing your viewpoint.   Therefore you are stupid.

Case 2:  flat earthers are dim.    If you engage them in an argument it means you are picking on a poor wretch and that makes you a cruel bully.  And, again, you are being stupid if you think you are advancing your viewpoint.

Case 3: flat earthers are lunatics.    If you engage them in and argument it means you are cruel.   And again that is stupid.

Case 4: There are individual flat earthers who fit each of the cases above, and who fall on a spectrum between options as well.  I engage in discussion here NOT in the hopes of moving a true believer off his or her conviction, but in order to arm with knowledge those kids who come here after hearing the likes of Tila Tequila or B.o.B talking about flat earth.  I want to convince THEM that the flat earth side is wrong.  I know full well that an adult true-believer is beyond my reach, just as they know that I am beyond their reach.
  So I am supposed to believe that you care about "the children"?  LOL ... What  Bullshit!    Leo Tolstoy pointed out that whenever people do messed up things they always do it for the good of others.  Are you serious!!! ??? 

" Hey all you children out there.  Don't fear.   Rounder is coming to save you from ignorance.  Because he/she/it loves you and wants the best for you.  Believe everything he says because he loves you and he is so smart!!"   LOL  Best internet laugh I have had in a while.  Good luck with the stupid children you are trying to save!  LOL

Offline Love

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Re: Friendly Debate
« Reply #38 on: April 26, 2016, 06:47:39 PM »
  I heard Oppenheimer died a depressed and broken man.  That's what he gets for being a military toady.

Schadenfreude? Not very Love filled or christian.

Oppenheimer  develops a devastating weapon used to kill 10's of thousands of non combatants and I am the bad guy?  You have a messed up sense of proportion.  I do not get pleasure from seeing other people in misery...even a dickhead like Oppenheimer; I wish he would have had a better life; should have stayed a clothing cutter, I guess.   Oppenheimer got cozy with pigs and then found out he couldn't wash the smell off.  He had no one to blame but himself.  For his own good he should have backed out.   They would have found someone else because brains are cheap, but at least he would have had an easier conscience to live with.

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Offline Jura-Glenlivet

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Re: Friendly Debate
« Reply #39 on: April 26, 2016, 09:44:51 PM »

Case 5;

I have a long standing interest in conspiracy theorists, my father believed in all sorts, we were descended from alien visitors, dark forces and shadow organisations, so I was bought up on Von Daniken and the belief that we would be invaded by Russia.
When one of my sons started sending me links about “chem trails “ and the holographic projection of the 9/11 planes I thought, O dear the nutcase gene had resurfaced.
During our subsequent discussions I mentioned “flat earthers” as a denigrating insult (I know I'm coming across here as the perfect parent but I'm not) and he pointed out that there was such a society. I was incredulous so I came to have a look, I lurked, read the wiki and a lot of posts and got hooked.

First and foremost amongst the outright bampots there are some very nice people here, from both sides of the debate.

Why do I stay and argue? Well I like arguing, it's fun, it makes you re-evaluate your beliefs, but rounder does have a point, I'm not sure that many of the founders truly believe all of this but there are a few lost souls that pass through here and altruist that I am, If I can arrest one of them from the slide to mental illness I can rest easy.
Just to be clear, you are all terrific, but everything you say is exactly what a moron would say.