Tom Bishop:
Unfortunately, we do not have a reliable space agency to tell us what is in space.
Some people deny that the U.S. Apollo moon landings ever occurred. Instead, they consider the landings part of a grand conspiracy to deceive the Soviets during the space race of the 1960s. This bizarre claim quotes a few details out of context, while hiding mounds of contrary evidence. Its supporters are guilty of the confusion and deception that they ascribe to others.https://answersingenesis.org/astronomy/far-out-claims-about-astronomy/ (https://answersingenesis.org/astronomy/far-out-claims-about-astronomy/)
QuoteTom Bishop:
Unfortunately, we do not have a reliable space agency to tell us what is in space.
Actually we do, Tom. Tell you what. If you or another FE believer will come visit my university (I’m in the Midwest), I’ll give you $100 (but only one of you, please) on the sole condition that you talk with at least one of the following friends and coworkers about FET and your views on NASA and allow me to witness the conversation (I’m withholding their names because I don’t want to put them at risk for harassment):
(1) An astronaut-scientist who flew on one of the Space Shuttle missions, and who was very active in the Apollo program before that. For example, he was the astronaut on the ground who developed the instructions for constructing lithium hydroxide canisters for the Apollo 13 mission (the near-disaster), used to scrub CO2 from the air in the spacecraft.
(2) My boss, who designed the first space-borne radar system used on Skylab and who chaired a committee tasked with redesigning systems that had been used in the Mars Polar Lander (which crashed on the planet) for use in the Phoenix Mars Lander, which landed in a Martian polar region in 2008 and completed its mission successfully. Among other projects, he is currently working on NISAR, a joint satellite research project of NASA and the Indian Space Research Organisation, with a launch scheduled for December 2019.
(3) My other boss, the director of the lab where I work and a longtime friend. He is the current president of the IEEE Geoscience and Remote Sensing Society, the international organization of scientists and engineers who are working in this field, so he is very familiar with what is going on in this area. Much of remote sensing involves satellites.
(4) Another scientist and a graduate student, both currently doing research and design in satellite remote sensing, and who would probably kick in another $100 just to talk to a real flat-earther.
(5) Any of the hundreds of other people within a block of my office who are working on space-related research and design.
Just send me an email if you’d like to take me up on the offer. I’d like to encourage flat-earth believers to get up out of the armchairs where they are spinning their conspiracy theories, go see some space-related research first-hand, and meet some of the people who are doing it, or who have been there and back, and I’d love to listen to the ensuing conversations.
As a lagniappe, here is what AnswersInGenesis.org, the most influential Young-Earth Creationist website, has to say about moon landing hoaxers:QuoteSome people deny that the U.S. Apollo moon landings ever occurred. Instead, they consider the landings part of a grand conspiracy to deceive the Soviets during the space race of the 1960s. This bizarre claim quotes a few details out of context, while hiding mounds of contrary evidence. Its supporters are guilty of the confusion and deception that they ascribe to others.https://answersingenesis.org/astronomy/far-out-claims-about-astronomy/ (https://answersingenesis.org/astronomy/far-out-claims-about-astronomy/)
and
https://answersingenesis.org/astronomy/moon/did-we-really-land-moon/ (https://answersingenesis.org/astronomy/moon/did-we-really-land-moon/)
My hat's off to the FE conspiracy theorizers. You have to get up pretty early in the morning to out-nutter Answers in Genesis.
The only one who would be in on it is the astronaut. The other people researching things like better radar systems could be performing legitimate research for military uses beyond their clearance level. NASA attracts the best and the brightest, and the military has constantly fought Congress to keep NASA alive to research technologies for its uses.
Over the years the military has used NASA as a resource to research hardened electronics, radio technologies, extremely strong light weight metals, robotics, jet engines... NASA has never been about honest science. It was fathered by the military-industrial complex as a show to the world that the US could put ICBMs into orbit and bomb foreign nations at the push of a button.
I became aware of NASA being a complete and total fraud when I was still a ball-earther and believed FE was nothing more than a psy-op meant to fool people. I was a top-notch astronomy student in school and a voracious reader of hard-science books. Heh, I still have my 3 volumes of the Feynman Lectures on Physics.
As it happens, nearly all of the well-known flat-earth "proponents" are indeed fraudulent. I can't think of a single FE YouTuber who is not a shill (not to mention a Satanist) with an unstated mission to discredit the idea. This they do by putting forth nonsense "proofs" relating to crepuscular rays and similarly deliberate strawmen.
But back to NASA and the rest of the space agencies (that we commoners are meant to believe are different entities, just as we are meant to believe our governments are controlled by different entities... it's all part of maintaining a divide-and-conquer Hegelian dialectic) - they reveal themselves as frauds in their hoaxy astronaut videos all the time. The onboard the ISS videos are surely the worst offenders. Though, much like a magician's show, if you don't know to look for deception (and what sort of deception to look for), they can appear convincing. If anyone has a favorite ISS video that they can't figure out how it could be fake, please post it and so I can help point out things wrong with it if we are to assume it is actually real footage onboard a contraption in orbit.
And I assume the perpetrators of this conspiracy are not human?A strange assumption, and one that is not indicated by the facts at all.
Because I have certainly not seen any indications that humans can cooperate on such a scale for a long timeframe without internal fighting.What makes you think you would be privy to their infighting?
Because I have certainly not seen any indications that humans can cooperate on such a scale for a long timeframe without internal fighting.What makes you think you would be privy to their infighting?
What makes you think you would be privy to their infighting?
Because I have certainly not seen any indications that humans can cooperate on such a scale for a long timeframe without internal fighting.What makes you think you would be privy to their infighting?
I think the implication is that infighting would result in the conspirators no longer cooperating, and from there to outright conflict among them, in which case the whole conspiracy thing would fall apart. And THAT, we would see. If suddenly The Conspiracy was no longer acting in unison to deceive us all about the shape of the world.
So what? What is the relevance?Because I have certainly not seen any indications that humans can cooperate on such a scale for a long timeframe without internal fighting.What makes you think you would be privy to their infighting?
I think the implication is that infighting would result in the conspirators no longer cooperating, and from there to outright conflict among them, in which case the whole conspiracy thing would fall apart. And THAT, we would see. If suddenly The Conspiracy was no longer acting in unison to deceive us all about the shape of the world.
A lot of the technologies are subject to military classification. And the military does a very good job of keeping military secrets, secret. You would have a hard time finding classified military secrets online.
So what? What is the relevance?
The military does a very good job of keeping plans to their advanced weaponry off the internet, for example. An organization able to keep a secret is not unheard of.
The military does a very good job of keeping plans to their advanced weaponry off the internet, for example. An organization able to keep a secret is not unheard of.
Sure, but the claim wasn't that the secret couldn't be kept. The claim was that the amount of foresight and cooperation required would be super-human. Keeping some technical designs secret for a limited time (until the method becomes common knowledge) is not the same as secretly running the entirety of civilisation.
How are they "secretly running the entirety of civilization"?
How are they "secretly running the entirety of civilization"?
Look at Setec's post again. He claims a conspiracy across all world governments (and Youtubers).
You mean this? "But back to NASA and the rest of the space agencies (that we commoners are meant to believe are different entities, just as we are meant to believe our governments are controlled by different entities... it's all part of maintaining a divide-and-conquer Hegelian dialectic) - they reveal themselves as frauds in their hoaxy astronaut videos all the time."
I don't see an issue with that statmente. Check out the Chinese space walk:
The claim was that the amount of foresight and cooperation required would be super-human.No, it might seem super-human to you, just as acrobats, mathematicians, and magicians might seem super-human to you.
The claim was that the amount of foresight and cooperation required would be super-human.No, it might seem super-human to you, just as acrobats, mathematicians, and magicians might seem super-human to you.
They aren't, they just know things you don't and possess skills that you lack.
If you know anything about the Chinese government it is not at all surprising they would fake this to make themselves look good. And just because one crooked and dishonest government made a fake space video doesn't mean all of them do. China just sucks and wanted to play with the big boys.How are they "secretly running the entirety of civilization"?
Look at Setec's post again. He claims a conspiracy across all world governments (and Youtubers).
You mean this? "But back to NASA and the rest of the space agencies (that we commoners are meant to believe are different entities, just as we are meant to believe our governments are controlled by different entities... it's all part of maintaining a divide-and-conquer Hegelian dialectic) - they reveal themselves as frauds in their hoaxy astronaut videos all the time."
I don't see an issue with that statmente. Check out the Chinese space walk:
We know how acrobats and magicians do what they do"The Turk" fooled people for over a hundred years. The Fatima illusion (aka "miracle of the sun") also continues to beguile people. As do space agency rocket launches, whose setup is not unlike Copperfield's vanishing of the Statue of Liberty.
What no one has explained is how a conspiracy with the size and scope of the alleged NASA conspiracy could plausibly be carried out. The Apollo program began over 50 years ago, and tens of thousands of people have been connected with NASA in one way or another as employees, contractors, family members of the above, etc.Do you think they give all information to all people along with a pamphlet to take home to the fam? Does the guy working the popcorn stand in the theater also know how all the performing magician's tricks are done?
All that would mean is that bits and pieces would have leaked out until enough was gathered that you could see the whole picture. We know from history that it is just impossible for something that big to remain completely secret.We know how acrobats and magicians do what they do"The Turk" fooled people for over a hundred years. The Fatima illusion (aka "miracle of the sun") also continues to beguile people. As do space agency rocket launches, whose setup is not unlike Copperfield's vanishing of the Statue of Liberty.QuoteWhat no one has explained is how a conspiracy with the size and scope of the alleged NASA conspiracy could plausibly be carried out. The Apollo program began over 50 years ago, and tens of thousands of people have been connected with NASA in one way or another as employees, contractors, family members of the above, etc.Do you think they give all information to all people along with a pamphlet to take home to the fam? Does the guy working the popcorn stand in the theater also know how all the performing magician's tricks are done?
One thing you seem to be completely unaware of is the compartmentalized nature of information, and how certain secrets are treated as the "holy of holies" which only a select few will ever be allowed to see the workings of.
No, it might seem super-human to you, just as acrobats, mathematicians, and magicians might seem super-human to you.
They aren't, they just know things you don't and possess skills that you lack.
"The Turk" fooled people for over a hundred years. The Fatima illusion (aka "miracle of the sun") also continues to beguile people. As do space agency rocket launches, whose setup is not unlike Copperfield's vanishing of the Statue of Liberty.
Do you think they give all information to all people along with a pamphlet to take home to the fam? Does the guy working the popcorn stand in the theater also know how all the performing magician's tricks are done?
One thing you seem to be completely unaware of is the compartmentalized nature of information, and how certain secrets are treated as the "holy of holies" which only a select few will ever be allowed to see the workings of.
It is a statement of fact. Or do you claim to be a Chinese acrobat mathematician conjuror?No, it might seem super-human to you, just as acrobats, mathematicians, and magicians might seem super-human to you.
They aren't, they just know things you don't and possess skills that you lack.
I can't tell if this is supposed to be a veiled insult.
Anyways, just telling me "no you're wrong" isn't terribly likely to convince me.If that's what you gleaned from it, I suggest working on reading comprehension.
What they demonstrate is someone with secret knowledge can deceive the world. They can fool emperors, the elect, and the hoi polloi. With the right patter and misdirection, magic tricks from a CrackerJack box can fool scientists."The Turk" fooled people for over a hundred years. The Fatima illusion (aka "miracle of the sun") also continues to beguile people. As do space agency rocket launches, whose setup is not unlike Copperfield's vanishing of the Statue of Liberty.
So a hoax machine (which only fooled people for 50 years) is analogous to a worldwide conspiracy? An unexplained phenomenon is? How do these things demonstrate the cooperation and foresight necessary to secretly rule the world?
But your conspiracy needs to actively rule the world, not just stay in hiding. To do that it needs to influence a lot of decisions, all of which is a potential source if evidence.I don't think you understand how hierarchies work. Once you get to the levels of nation-state politicians (who are all actors playing parts anyway), the hierarchies become completely hidden from public. These people are in it up to their necks, and none of them are likely to ever sacrifice themselves, their families, as well as their heirs just to try to tell people who will not believe them anyway and who don't even question the symbolism staring them in the face on dollar bills.
But that is the point - bits and pieces have "leaked out", or rather bits and pieces are noticebly fraudulent.One thing you seem to be completely unaware of is the compartmentalized nature of information, and how certain secrets are treated as the "holy of holies" which only a select few will ever be allowed to see the workings of.All that would mean is that bits and pieces would have leaked out until enough was gathered that you could see the whole picture. We know from history that it is just impossible for something that big to remain completely secret.
One thing you seem to be completely unaware of is the compartmentalized nature of information, and how certain secrets are treated as the "holy of holies" which only a select few will ever be allowed to see the workings of.
Who bribed/paid Copernicus, Tycho Brahe, Galileo, Eratosthenes, Ptolemy, Keppler, Newton, Halley, Aristarchus, Aristotle, Hubble and Einstein (who died in 1955) ... who all supported the spherical earth theoryHow many Popes have there been. Do you think their number and the longevity of their ideas means it's true? (I certainly don't)
Now try to convince me that this world wide conspiracy has been going on for 2500 years !!Your mind is quite closed so I doubt you could become convinced of anything you had not previously decided is true.
I wouldn't quite call it a leak if the only place that information gets disseminated to is an obscure website that no one really visits, and of those that do, most don't take seriously. I'm talking we would have something in larger circles with a clear whistleblowers and some documented evidence. Snowden is the most common name known about our spying issues here but he was far from the first NSA whistleblower.But that is the point - bits and pieces have "leaked out", or rather bits and pieces are noticebly fraudulent.One thing you seem to be completely unaware of is the compartmentalized nature of information, and how certain secrets are treated as the "holy of holies" which only a select few will ever be allowed to see the workings of.All that would mean is that bits and pieces would have leaked out until enough was gathered that you could see the whole picture. We know from history that it is just impossible for something that big to remain completely secret.
If you watch the majority of the "onboard the ISS" videos with a critical eye, you'll notice there is something severely wrong with the way the astronauts move and change direction as though inertia was not a factor in their movement. Even in free-fall weightlessness a 80kg person still has 80kg of mass. Moving, turning, slowing, stopping would all take considerable exertion, yet the astronauts do it with without effort. Makes no sense in the context of a truly weightless environment, but makes lots of sense if they are simply in a green-screen room suspended by harnesses with most of the motion occuring with the camera and post-production editing instead of the (actor) actually reorienting himself.
The public at large unfortunately does not have an intuitive grasp of momentum and how it works, so feeble special effects is all it takes to fool them. Most of the time they don't even bother to use the simulated weightlessness of a "vomit comet". Composite video is far easier and has the added bonus of being able to have long sequences without edits, whereas the vomit comets only get around 30 seconds or so of time for weightless acrobatics.
I wouldn't quite call it a leak if the only place that information gets disseminated to is an obscure website that no one really visits, and of those that do, most don't take seriously.I have no idea what website you're referring to. All you have to do is watch the videos put out by NASA and other space agencies and you can see for yourself the astronauts momentum when moving about is practically non-existent. You just have to look at it with your own eyes and use your brain.
Also, you do realize that weightlessness means just that right?Do you realize that weghtlessness is not masslessness? Do you even know what mass and momentum are? I guess you can be counted among the dimwitted hoi poilloi with no grasp of the concept of inertia.
Or you are just grasping at straws. If I can move my body without much effort here, then why would it suddenly become harder if weight was removed from the equation?I wouldn't quite call it a leak if the only place that information gets disseminated to is an obscure website that no one really visits, and of those that do, most don't take seriously.I have no idea what website you're referring to. All you have to do is watch the videos put out by NASA and other space agencies and you can see for yourself the astronauts momentum when moving about is practically non-existent. You just have to look at it with your own eyes and use your brain.QuoteAlso, you do realize that weightlessness means just that right?Do you realize that weghtlessness is not masslessness? Do you even know what mass and momentum are? I guess you can be counted among the dimwitted hoi poilloi with no grasp of the concept of inertia.
So Exactly how accurate was Biruni ?From Al-Biruni's Classic Experiment (http://hubpages.com/education/How-to-Determin-the-Radius-of-the-Earth-Al-Birunis-Classic-Experiment)
With his formula Biruni arrived at the value of the circumference of the earth within 200 miles of the actual value of 24,902 miles, that is less then 1% of error. Biruni's stated radius of 6335.725 km is also very close to the original value.
If you know anything about the Chinese government it is not at all surprising they would fake this to make themselves look good. And just because one crooked and dishonest government made a fake space video doesn't mean all of them do. China just sucks and wanted to play with the big boys.
By the way, why would anyone possibly want to secretly rule the world? It seems to me that ruling a country would be sufficient for any ego.
If I can move my body without much effort here, then why would it suddenly become harder if weight was removed from the equation?If you want to move in weightlessness, you have to grab hold of something and pull your (60, 70, 80) kilogram mass. If you want to change the direction you're moving, you have to grab something to slow you down - and if you grab something with your hands, you have to hold hard because your entire mass (head, torso, legs) is also moving with momentum.
You have to admit, history says that this isn't probable, but is plausible.The public never heard anything about the Manhattan Project until after WW2. Scientists censored themselves and publications that had anything to do with atomic power (who knows - if they hadn't censored discussion it might have been known the whole thing was also a psy-op - on the public!)
I will always wonder, why? Every conspiracy has a why.
Why fake the moon landing? To fool the Russians into thinking we had better tech.
Why would 9/11 be an inside job? To give the US a reason to invade the Middle East.
The is always a reason to the cover-ups (and often the most realistic part of any crackpot theory). I can never fathom why NASA would cover up the truth, or in the more unlikely scenario, multiple countries are working hand in hand to hide the truth. What is there to gain in hiding it, what is there to lose if the whistle is blown? If its a global conspiracy everyone is in on, it clearly isn't political, or about resources. It definitely isn't for keeping peace (home or abroad). And the further this conspiracy goes back, the more possible reasons begin to make less sense. Entire cultures have come and gone, cities leveled and empires fallen. It is very implausible for this group to have maintained power over everyone for so long without having something inhuman (themselves or technology) in their possession.
Actually we do, Tom. Tell you what. If you or another FE believer will come visit my university (I’m in the Midwest), I’ll give you $100 (but only one of you, please) on the sole condition that you talk with at least one of the following friends and coworkers about FET and your views on NASA and allow me to witness the conversation (I’m withholding their names because I don’t want to put them at risk for harassment):
I can never fathom why NASA would cover up the truth,You think it's realistic to expect NASA to say "actually folks, our world is flat and there's no outer space. At a certain altitude we encounter what seems to be the underside of a giant dome of smooth impenetrable sapphire and we can't get past it or through it to get anywhere near the moon, planets, stars or anything other heavenly bodies. Everything we've all been led to believe about our world is a total lie and we know next to nothing about what this place actually is or our reason is for being here. But hey - look at Kim Kardasian's ass!"
So throughout history there is:Yes.
NASA and every other space agency
AstronomersNot all of them - only the ones who make specific claims about things they have not actually witnessed (seeing stellar parallax, surfaces of other planets etc.)
Pilots and ship crewsOnly some pilots and navigators. Plenty don't think through the operations of their instruments, inertial guidance in particular, to realize the bigger picture - and those who do can often be satiated with words like "schuler tuning" (much like a skeptic of Star Trek transporters will accept "Heisenberg compensators" as a plausible Macguffin).
CartographersDepends on the specific cartographer and their claim. Most, once again, accept the status quo and never even have to think about the bigger picture when constructing maps of small areas.
Geodetic surveyorsOnly the ones who specifically put forth the claim that they have observed curvature. Most give it no thought at all and make no mention of it.
Almost everyone involved in the Earth sciencesNope, most of them are dupes as far as the ball-earth goes. They simply believe, like most others, that what they were taught about the earth as a whole is true.
Amateur radio operatorsNope, only the ones who say they've bounced radio waves off the moon. Though plenty will believe it and repeat the lie.
Satellite TV installersNope, all they do is point the dish at a spot in the sky. They are blissfully unaware that the signal is ionospheric reflection of a ground-based emission tower. Anyone can figure this out though just by observing the angle dishes are aimed on houses near the equator (use Google Map Street View of places like Quito, Ecuador and hunt around for views where you can see satellite dishes on houses and you'll see exactly what I mean)
Amateur astronomersOnly the ones who fake observations - and they are not "amateur" they are sold-out liars putting out false data.
StuffYou do realize that if our world was flat, it'd be more beleivable that NASA would've been honest about it upon its discovery? Anything else would mean NASA and other space agencies would've been founded solely to hold up the hoax.
You do realize that if our world was flat, it'd be more beleivable that NASA would've been honest about it upon its discovery?Why on earth would you expect an agency of a hierarchical structure (government) literally designed to rule over you with the threat of violence or imprisonment to have any interest in informing you of the truth?
I doubt whether or not I think my planet is round really effects my complacency in any way.
Also telling us the truth when the truth isn't a danger to their rule or our daily life is an unneccesary complication they could do without. A complication they would do without.
Unless, you are willing to admit knowing the Earth is flat has given you serious issues with authority, and/or has made you an exceedingly aggressive individual. And this anomoly must be common among the majority of FE-ers (which it isn't. Credit where its due you guys seem to actually be calmer on average then us). So complancency isn't it unless the aforementioned requirements are met (or something more ridiculous like seeing our lizard overlords for who they really are. :D).
So once again the question stands without even a somewhat probable excuse for why.
Satellite dish alignment can easily be measured by you to prove your theory. They have to be very accurately aligned and each transponder has a tighly defined coverage area. For reception of a particular transponder you should be able to show the transmitter location to prove the use of ionospheric reflection.So throughout history there is:Yes.
NASA and every other space agencyQuoteAstronomersNot all of them - only the ones who make specific claims about things they have not actually witnessed (seeing stellar parallax, surfaces of other planets etc.)QuotePilots and ship crewsOnly some pilots and navigators. Plenty don't think through the operations of their instruments, inertial guidance in particular, to realize the bigger picture - and those who do can often be satiated with words like "schuler tuning" (much like a skeptic of Star Trek transporters will accept "Heisenberg compensators" as a plausible Macguffin).QuoteCartographersDepends on the specific cartographer and their claim. Most, once again, accept the status quo and never even have to think about the bigger picture when constructing maps of small areas.QuoteGeodetic surveyorsOnly the ones who specifically put forth the claim that they have observed curvature. Most give it no thought at all and make no mention of it.QuoteAlmost everyone involved in the Earth sciencesNope, most of them are dupes as far as the ball-earth goes. They simply believe, like most others, that what they were taught about the earth as a whole is true.QuoteAmateur radio operatorsNope, only the ones who say they've bounced radio waves off the moon. Though plenty will believe it and repeat the lie.QuoteSatellite TV installersNope, all they do is point the dish at a spot in the sky. They are blissfully unaware that the signal is ionospheric reflection of a ground-based emission tower. Anyone can figure this out though just by observing the angle dishes are aimed on houses near the equator (use Google Map Street View of places like Quito, Ecuador and hunt around for views where you can see satellite dishes on houses and you'll see exactly what I mean)QuoteAmateur astronomersOnly the ones who fake observations - and they are not "amateur" they are sold-out liars putting out false data.
Satellite dish alignment can easily be measured by you to prove your theory. They have to be very accurately aligned and each transponder has a tighly defined coverage area. For reception of a particular transponder you should be able to show the transmitter location to prove the use of ionospheric reflection.
Maybe they're just entirely too entangled in the web of lies at this point? Maybe the Apollo missions were faked under the assumption that the earth was a sphere and they never could really confirm or deny this prior to the missions? I'd say the reason why they can't recant at this point is that they are entirely in too deep and have already spent trillions of our dollars on space exploration.
Just a possibility as to why.
Satellite dish alignment can easily be measured by you to prove your theory. They have to be very accurately aligned and each transponder has a tighly defined coverage area. For reception of a particular transponder you should be able to show the transmitter location to prove the use of ionospheric reflection.
Or you could just look at where dishes are aligned for residences at or near the equator. Since a geosynchronous satellite would necessarily be directly above the equator, their dishes should all be aimed at near 90 degrees straight up.
Maybe they're just entirely too entangled in the web of lies at this point? Maybe the Apollo missions were faked under the assumption that the earth was a sphere and they never could really confirm or deny this prior to the missions? I'd say the reason why they can't recant at this point is that they are entirely in too deep and have already spent trillions of our dollars on space exploration.
Just a possibility as to why.
Eh, in RE you don't even have to reach low orbit to see the curvature of the Earth. Its unlikely given the accepted facts of RE that it would've taken the moon mission's failure to discover it.
But I could still see it as a plausible, albeit unlikely scenario.
Maybe they're just entirely too entangled in the web of lies at this point? Maybe the Apollo missions were faked under the assumption that the earth was a sphere and they never could really confirm or deny this prior to the missions? I'd say the reason why they can't recant at this point is that they are entirely in too deep and have already spent trillions of our dollars on space exploration.
Just a possibility as to why.
Eh, in RE you don't even have to reach low orbit to see the curvature of the Earth. Its unlikely given the accepted facts of RE that it would've taken the moon mission's failure to discover it.
But I could still see it as a plausible, albeit unlikely scenario.
Whats drawn me to this whole thing in the first place is the fact that almost all phenomena that points to the earth being a sphere can be explained in other ways. I don't believe it has been proven beyond a reasonable doubt that the earth is the sphere were told.
That curvature we see from up really high could very well be the terminator line of where the sun would have its radius of shine.
QuoteAstronomersNot all of them - only the ones who make specific claims about things they have not actually witnessed (seeing stellar parallax, surfaces of other planets etc.)QuotePilots and ship crewsOnly some pilots and navigators. Plenty don't think through the operations of their instruments, inertial guidance in particular, to realize the bigger picture - and those who do can often be satiated with words like "schuler tuning" (much like a skeptic of Star Trek transporters will accept "Heisenberg compensators" as a plausible Macguffin).QuoteCartographersDepends on the specific cartographer and their claim. Most, once again, accept the status quo and never even have to think about the bigger picture when constructing maps of small areas.QuoteGeodetic surveyorsOnly the ones who specifically put forth the claim that they have observed curvature. Most give it no thought at all and make no mention of it.QuoteAlmost everyone involved in the Earth sciencesNope, most of them are dupes as far as the ball-earth goes. They simply believe, like most others, that what they were taught about the earth as a whole is true.QuoteAmateur radio operatorsNope, only the ones who say they've bounced radio waves off the moon. Though plenty will believe it and repeat the lie.QuoteSatellite TV installersNope, all they do is point the dish at a spot in the sky. They are blissfully unaware that the signal is ionospheric reflection of a ground-based emission tower. Anyone can figure this out though just by observing the angle dishes are aimed on houses near the equator (use Google Map Street View of places like Quito, Ecuador and hunt around for views where you can see satellite dishes on houses and you'll see exactly what I mean)QuoteAmateur astronomersOnly the ones who fake observations - and they are not "amateur" they are sold-out liars putting out false data.
First look up how geodetic surveys are done, the history, how long it has been going on and the vast amount of these surveys that were done. You will notice that some of the errors they were discovering with maps were the result of curvature. In the beginning for shorter distances there was now need to account for curvature.
So either the vast majority of geodetic surveyors throughout history did not understand how their job was done or they are/were part of the conspiracy.
A relatively simple job like satellite TV installation would likely result in more then one person figuring out something is up. The dishes need to be pointed in a certain direction for a certain satellite. That direction changes from location to location.
As for the Earth sciences they use models from various fields to make predictions. Errors in those predictions would resonate throughout all the sciences.
Here is an example of looking for an error of 3mm or less for a prediction that used models for plate tectonics, GPS error, Earth tide, tidal loading, gravity. All based on the Earth being a spheroid.
https://blogs.ncl.ac.uk/geodesy/2015/08/14/two-papers-on-ocean-tide-loading/
So we have a prediction being 3 mm off for a part of the world. That prediction was made by using various different models from different fields and was only off by no more than 3 mm for a certain area.
It also shows scientist do not just accept things and will not investigate something.
As I stated before either the majority of people with careers in the Earth sciences and astronomy are part of the conspiracy or the errors that would resonate through many different fields of study go unnoticed or investigated.
That curvature we see from up really high could very well be the terminator line of where the sun would have its radius of shine.
Yes, they give you plausible deniability so people can continue believing in orbiting satellites. What's surely odd is all satellite tv dishes point off at an angle less than 60 degrees from horizontal. And the angle they point at indicates the satellite must be above a part of the globe nearly 1/4 the circumference away.Satellite dish alignment can easily be measured by you to prove your theory. They have to be very accurately aligned and each transponder has a tighly defined coverage area. For reception of a particular transponder you should be able to show the transmitter location to prove the use of ionospheric reflection.
Or you could just look at where dishes are aligned for residences at or near the equator. Since a geosynchronous satellite would necessarily be directly above the equator, their dishes should all be aimed at near 90 degrees straight up.
You were so close with that one, but you overlooked something. While, yes, geosynchronous satellites are usually positioned above the equator, that doesn't mean that it's directly above any given city. It could be anywhere east or west of that city, it just has to be on the equator. If you look at the compass on google StreetMaps, you can see that they are all pointing magnetic east.
EDIT: Here is a place that is a couple hundred miles north east of where most cable satellites are positioned.Did you notice those are Mesh dishes - which is not used for satellite tv but some sort other C-band radio function. Could be anything from HAM / troposcatter or who knows what else. Parabolic antennas were being used long before it was ever said we had satellites in orbit.
https://www.google.com/maps/@2.7995709,-60.7763506,3a,15y,312.94h,90.14t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1ssrlXH5t2LPKGoUWBVwdhYA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656
Just so happens that they are "almost 90 degrees", I calculate them to be 80 degrees above the horizontal.
Clarification on my saying "anyone who believes tje wiki as factual reference blah blah" that isn't intended to insult all the FE-ers out there. Its just that the wiki should seem ridiculous to anyone sane, no matter what shape you think the planet is.The TFES wiki is indeed full of total nonsense. I wouldn't fall for the guise that TFES is actually serious about the flat earth if I were you.
It is worth noting also, in response to the satellite dish question, those dishes are aimed higher than they might appear to be. The horn is offset, so the aim isn't along the low angle seen between the dish and the hornIt's actually a cosecant squared antennae and the parabola is deformed to bend incoming rays like this:
(http://www.satsig.net/22-deg-offset.gif)
It all makes sense. Fact. Satellites work.It is worth noting also, in response to the satellite dish question, those dishes are aimed higher than they might appear to be. The horn is offset, so the aim isn't along the low angle seen between the dish and the hornIt's actually a cosecant squared antennae and the parabola is deformed to bend incoming rays like this:
(http://www.satsig.net/22-deg-offset.gif)
(http://s32.postimg.org/6rba7uvad/antenna.png)
Quite a shame that they've added yet another level of disinfo to the satellite mythos. But there it is.
Yes, they give you plausible deniability so people can continue believing in orbiting satellites. What's surely odd is all satellite tv dishes point off at an angle less than 60 degrees from horizontal. And the angle they point at indicates the satellite must be above a part of the globe nearly 1/4 the circumference away.Satellite dish alignment can easily be measured by you to prove your theory. They have to be very accurately aligned and each transponder has a tighly defined coverage area. For reception of a particular transponder you should be able to show the transmitter location to prove the use of ionospheric reflection.
Or you could just look at where dishes are aligned for residences at or near the equator. Since a geosynchronous satellite would necessarily be directly above the equator, their dishes should all be aimed at near 90 degrees straight up.
You were so close with that one, but you overlooked something. While, yes, geosynchronous satellites are usually positioned above the equator, that doesn't mean that it's directly above any given city. It could be anywhere east or west of that city, it just has to be on the equator. If you look at the compass on google StreetMaps, you can see that they are all pointing magnetic east.
LOOK
Piura, Peru
Here's one at -5 degrees south of the equator that is pointing nearly horizontal!
https://www.google.com/maps/@-5.1609302,-80.655418,3a,35.5y,294.86h,84.51t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s7NexUd5IifEuOVb5ZYhQ_Q!2e0!7i13312!8i6656
Another: https://www.google.com/maps/@-5.1612217,-80.6560581,3a,75y,193.78h,78.16t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1svSn0F5QUV7F28hcGnLN_aA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656
And two more: https://www.google.com/maps/@-5.1601944,-80.6565193,3a,40y,136.04h,84.88t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sbktmsKHcIQXoTYG-zz0FXQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656
What location could such a satellite possibly be 42,000 kilometers above for dishes at this angle to be aiming at it? Africa?
Now the east coast of South America:
https://www.google.com/maps/@-1.3512533,-48.4667752,3a,25.6y,24.66h,106.92t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sV9epkXfNJZhdjJ_cDGPWTQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656
Dish points west, but at such a low angle - it must be aimed at a satellite above the middle of the Pacific Ocean!
Go ahead and work out where these "geosynchronous satellites" must be located, given the angle the dishes are aimed. It makes zero sense.QuoteEDIT: Here is a place that is a couple hundred miles north east of where most cable satellites are positioned.Did you notice those are Mesh dishes - which is not used for satellite tv but some sort other C-band radio function. Could be anything from HAM / troposcatter or who knows what else. Parabolic antennas were being used long before it was ever said we had satellites in orbit.
https://www.google.com/maps/@2.7995709,-60.7763506,3a,15y,312.94h,90.14t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1ssrlXH5t2LPKGoUWBVwdhYA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656
Just so happens that they are "almost 90 degrees", I calculate them to be 80 degrees above the horizontal.
However if you rotate that view clockwise you'll see next to another of the mesh dishes there is an actual satellite TV dish - and it is pointed about 55 degrees from horizontal.
https://www.google.com/maps/@2.7995709,-60.7763506,3a,15y,340.45h,88.67t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1ssrlXH5t2LPKGoUWBVwdhYA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656
Coincidence?
Quote
One thing you seem to be completely unaware of is the compartmentalized nature of information, and how certain secrets are treated as the "holy of holies" which only a select few will ever be allowed to see the workings of.
This perfectly explains why various projects get canceled. We are told it is for budgetary reasons (primarily) or that the project is no longer needed but in reality it all comes down to one person working within the scope of one compartment needing information or knowledge from another compartment. Since breaching the compartment walls would bring the whole thing down to its knees, those in charge take the option of complete shutdown as the best option available.
Thank you so much for bringing this enlightenment to so many.
I can never fathom why NASA would cover up the truth,You think it's realistic to expect NASA to say "actually folks, our world is flat and there's no outer space. At a certain altitude we encounter what seems to be the underside of a giant dome of smooth impenetrable sapphire and we can't get past it or through it to get anywhere near the moon, planets, stars or anything other heavenly bodies. Everything we've all been led to believe about our world is a total lie and we know next to nothing about what this place actually is or our reason is for being here. But hey - look at Kim Kardasian's ass!"
Keeping you in the complacent belief that you live on a tiny insignificant speck of a spinning ball within a vast universe populated with untold trillions of similar places means you are unlikely to worry about much of anything other than your own pursuit of pleasure and (false) knowledge. Keep buying iPhones and VR goggles. Keep whacking off to porn. Go ahead and get off on putting things in your ass. Get drunk and crazy. But most of all, keep buying shit and believe souls are a hoax.
Why on earth would you expect an agency of a hierarchical structure (government) literally designed to rule over you with the threat of violence or imprisonment to have any interest in informing you of the truth?
They will tell you things that, if you believe them, will tend to keep you a complacent citizen whose efforts will benefit them.
Do the owners of the race tracks try to tell the greyhounds that the thing zipping around the track is just a scrap of fur and not a real rabbit they can ever catch?
Quote
Whats drawn me to this whole thing in the first place is the fact that almost all phenomena that points to the earth being a sphere can be explained in other ways. I don't believe it has been proven beyond a rreasonable doubt that the earth is the sphere were told.
That curvature we see from up really high could very well be the terminator line of where the sun would have its radius of shine.
If it were the terminator line of the sun's shine the curvature would be concave, not convex.
What can the average person do or gain from being told of an unfathomably large cosmos?The average person can't do anything at all - other than be led to believe he and his world are an insignificant speck and the most personal power he can fathom is what he sees in the rulers of the world. Who else will he serve but them? He'll believe in things like "patriotism", revere the military, and would willingly kill and die for their commands.
What of the hierarchical structure of religion?
You are conflating a geostationary orbit (geosynchronous equatorial orbit) with a geosynchronous orbit.
GPS and various other communication satellites are arranged in a constellation formation around Earth to provide full (or as close to full as possible) coverage. Some may be in geostationary orbit but not all of them.
What can the average person do or gain from being told of an unfathomably large cosmos?The average person can't do anything at all - other than be led to believe he and his world are an insignificant speck and the most personal power he can fathom is what he sees in the rulers of the world. Who else will he serve but them? He'll believe in things like "patriotism", revere the military, and would willingly kill and die for their commands.
And again, as I pointed out before, the FE-ers are less aggressive, rude, etc than us RE guys on average. It almost seems like beleiving in a flat Earth makes you more complacent than beleiving in a round one.You are complacent towards your government masters and all the lies you are told, which you believe without question. Your signature suggests the mindset of a crazed jihadist willing to murder others ("mortal enemies") based on them not believing in the fairy tale you've accepted as true. In other words, you are perfectly mind-controlled and will do the bidding of your master, including hating others simply for their lack of belief. But doubt your master? Oh, you cannot even entertain such heresy!
So if I were to say that I sent a high altitude balloon 24km up, taking everything into account about the camera sensor, ruled out lens aberration, and snapped a picture of earth's curvature, I would either be a liar or in on the conspiracy?And again, as I pointed out before, the FE-ers are less aggressive, rude, etc than us RE guys on average. It almost seems like beleiving in a flat Earth makes you more complacent than beleiving in a round one.You are complacent towards your government masters and all the lies you are told, which you believe without question. Your signature suggests the mindset of a crazed jihadist willing to murder others ("mortal enemies") based on them not believing in the fairy tale you've accepted as true. In other words, you are perfectly mind-controlled and will do the bidding of your master, including hating others simply for their lack of belief. But doubt your master? Oh, you cannot even entertain such heresy!
So if I were to say that I sent a high altitude balloon 24km up, taking everything into account about the camera sensor, ruled out lens aberration, and snapped a picture of earth's curvature, I would either be a liar or in on the conspiracy?And again, as I pointed out before, the FE-ers are less aggressive, rude, etc than us RE guys on average. It almost seems like beleiving in a flat Earth makes you more complacent than beleiving in a round one.You are complacent towards your government masters and all the lies you are told, which you believe without question. Your signature suggests the mindset of a crazed jihadist willing to murder others ("mortal enemies") based on them not believing in the fairy tale you've accepted as true. In other words, you are perfectly mind-controlled and will do the bidding of your master, including hating others simply for their lack of belief. But doubt your master? Oh, you cannot even entertain such heresy!
Or, did "the government" hack my radio signal and replace my telemetry and image data, corrupting the checksum of each and every data packet I received in real-time?
You are complacent towards your government masters and all the lies you are told, which you believe without question. Your signature suggests the mindset of a crazed jihadist willing to murder others ("mortal enemies") based on them not believing in the fairy tale you've accepted as true. In other words, you are perfectly mind-controlled and will do the bidding of your master, including hating others simply for their lack of belief. But doubt your master? Oh, you cannot even entertain such heresy!
What does that even mean?So if I were to say that I sent a high altitude balloon 24km up, taking everything into account about the camera sensor, ruled out lens aberration, and snapped a picture of earth's curvature, I would either be a liar or in on the conspiracy?And again, as I pointed out before, the FE-ers are less aggressive, rude, etc than us RE guys on average. It almost seems like beleiving in a flat Earth makes you more complacent than beleiving in a round one.You are complacent towards your government masters and all the lies you are told, which you believe without question. Your signature suggests the mindset of a crazed jihadist willing to murder others ("mortal enemies") based on them not believing in the fairy tale you've accepted as true. In other words, you are perfectly mind-controlled and will do the bidding of your master, including hating others simply for their lack of belief. But doubt your master? Oh, you cannot even entertain such heresy!
Or, did "the government" hack my radio signal and replace my telemetry and image data, corrupting the checksum of each and every data packet I received in real-time?
Don't talk about it, be about it.
Here's a recent (Oct. 2015) hi-res image of the Earth from the moon, taken by the LRO:
https://www.nasa.gov/image-feature/goddard/lro-earthrise-2015
Here's how the image was made:
http://lroc.sese.asu.edu/posts/895
Question, are there lunar astronauts or was that just some kind of hypothetical scenario described in that article.Those are hpothetical future astronauts, as indicated by the use of the future tense in all the verbs referring to them. "lunar astronauts will see..." "what will farside explorers think with no Earth overhead?"
I honestly couldn't follow that odd ball explanation of how the picture was created, maybe that was the point.
Because I have certainly not seen any indications that humans can cooperate on such a scale for a long timeframe without internal fighting.What makes you think you would be privy to their infighting?
I think the implication is that infighting would result in the conspirators no longer cooperating, and from there to outright conflict among them, in which case the whole conspiracy thing would fall apart. And THAT, we would see. If suddenly The Conspiracy was no longer acting in unison to deceive us all about the shape of the world.
A lot of the technologies are subject to military classification. And the military does a very good job of keeping military secrets, secret. You would have a hard time finding classified military secrets online.
Who bribed/paid Copernicus, Tycho Brahe, Galileo, Eratosthenes, Ptolemy, Keppler, Newton, Halley, Aristarchus, Aristotle, Hubble and Einstein (who died in 1955) ... who all supported the spherical earth theoryHow many Popes have there been. Do you think their number and the longevity of their ideas means it's true? (I certainly don't)
Now try to convince me that this world wide conspiracy has been going on for 2500 years !!Your mind is quite closed so I doubt you could become convinced of anything you had not previously decided is true.
If all space agencies in the world were in on the conspiracy, you would think there would be at least one leak, like Edward Snowden. There hasn't. Flat Earth is one of the dumbest conspiracy theories in the world.
If all space agencies in the world were in on the conspiracy, you would think there would be at least one leak, like Edward Snowden. There hasn't. Flat Earth is one of the dumbest conspiracy theories in the world.
I registered on this site to ask this but you seem to have already said it. What of all the space agencies that aren't NASA? Why didn't the Russians try to call the USA out when they claimed to land on the moon?
If all space agencies in the world were in on the conspiracy, you would think there would be at least one leak, like Edward Snowden. There hasn't. Flat Earth is one of the dumbest conspiracy theories in the world.
I registered on this site to ask this but you seem to have already said it. What of all the space agencies that aren't NASA? Why didn't the Russians try to call the USA out when they claimed to land on the moon?
Russia and others actually did call NASA achievements fake during the start of the Cold War.
Russia and others actually did call NASA achievements fake during the start of the Cold War.