41

Flat Earth Community / Re: Convex Earth Documentary

« on: March 27, 2018, 06:26:32 PM »

Gullible AND disingenuous in one package.

Still supporting this guy and ignoring all the evidence that runs contrary to what you already thought Tom?

This is really silly and your inability to simply admit to being wrong is actually starting to get a bit weird.

Our friend Urandir claims an extraterrestrial entity known as Bilu visits him and gives him his powers and insights. Bilu has come to him for years. Recently Bilu came to him and told him about the shape of the earth ( I wonder if Bilu used the words 'research flat earth bro').

These are Urandirs claims, no-one else's.

It doesn't sound much different than my local preacher who believes that he was spoken to by angels.

He says that he was inspired by Uri Geller, who bent forks on television and attributed the effect to positive thinking.

Yes, Uri Geller is another person who Randi seeks to debunk.
He claims to do things using "the power of the mind" when actually he is a TV magician.
The only difference between Uri Geller and this bloke and Randi is that Randi admits he is a magician, Geller pretends to be able to do these things because he has "powers".

If David Copperfield wasn't a stage magician and claimed to have "powers" you'd probably believe he could really fly...

Randi claimed for many years that what he was doing was "magic". His former career was a professional magician, remember?

Let's all just go join Scientology why don't we... If I'm going to pick a recently made up pile of BS to believe it may as well be one that's celebrity endorsed.

42

Flat Earth Community / Re: Convex Earth Documentary

« on: March 27, 2018, 06:00:36 AM »

Gullible AND disingenuous in one package.

Still supporting this guy and ignoring all the evidence that runs contrary to what you already thought Tom?

This is really silly and your inability to simply admit to being wrong is actually starting to get a bit weird.

Our friend Urandir claims an extraterrestrial entity known as Bilu visits him and gives him his powers and insights. Bilu has come to him for years. Recently Bilu came to him and told him about the shape of the earth ( I wonder if Bilu used the words 'research flat earth bro').

These are Urandirs claims, no-one else's.


https://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?depth=1&hl=en&nv=1&rurl=translate.google.com&sl=auto&sp=nmt4&tl=en&u=http://www.urandirfernandes.com.br/bilu-o-et-brasileiro/bilu-explica-o-formato-da-terra&xid=17259,15700022,15700105,15700124,15700126,15700149,15700168,15700173,15700186,15700201&usg=ALkJrhhrYOwNKmdZMWEmDWAhyfD5ZLU3wA

https://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?depth=1&hl=en&nv=1&rurl=translate.google.com&sl=auto&sp=nmt4&tl=en&u=http://www.urandirufo.com.br/categoria/bilu-o-et-brasileiro&xid=17259,15700022,15700105,15700124,15700126,15700149,15700168,15700173,15700186,15700201&usg=ALkJrhhdpLqzVkZdcFQ-hsTDnr4Tn7EFcw

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=754554607895186&substory_index=0&id=191762544174398

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=10201476980519423&id=191762544174398

43

Flat Earth Community / Re: Convex Earth Documentary

« on: March 26, 2018, 06:56:58 PM »

Heaven forbid anyone thinks I'm calling the co-founder of your merry band of 'scientists' a liar :

https://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?depth=1&hl=en&nv=1&rurl=translate.google.com&sl=auto&sp=nmt4&tl=en&u=https://www.ufo.com.br/artigos/urandir-fernandes-de-oliveira-do-charlatanismo-ao-estelionato/&xid=17259,15700022,15700105,15700124,15700126,15700149,15700168,15700173,15700186,15700201&usg=ALkJrhjzut3Zfxpyo0Ew6GU1d-mffsf8Zg

I'm sure you have a perfectly reasonable explanation for this. It is translated after all... And from a UFO site... But you don't mind that as we already know.

http://rense.com/general32/abac.htm

And who knows who wrote this... Obviously round earthers conspiring to make this poor chap appear to be lying scum.

If these allegations are true, then it does discredit this Brazilian guy. A history of lies and chicanery impeaches his work on any honest investigation.

However, since the claims and allegations seem only to come from a rival UFO organization, with which he had some kind of ongoing feud, I will withhold judgement on his character until I can find something further to corroborate their claims.

http://en.ufobr.com.br/urandir/controversy-about-the-prison-urandir-hes-innocent

Here we present evidence that shows the innocence of Urandir Fernandes de Oliveira, and his arrest in Porto Alegre. For those unaware Urandir suffers persecution by an offensive line of a Brazilian UFO, which spares no efforts to discredit Urandir. One of the issues that most concern are allegations that undue harassment of irregular sales of land to farm his property in Mato Grosso do Sul Below, a document issued by the Public Prosecutor of RS on September 11, 2000, issued two days after the unfair Urandir arrest in 2000, proving that there was nothing illegal in Urandir activity. Even with this, Brazilian ufologists still made and make further charges against Urandir and insistent, using this fact without showing the evidence that we bring here

Sorry Tom, but there are multiple reports on various sites of his shady dealings.

Your one article announcing his innocents and persecution is a news site run by Urandir media, his own site.

44

Flat Earth Community / Re: Convex Earth Documentary

« on: March 26, 2018, 12:09:08 PM »

The guy appears to be a convicted con man, but apparently to an FE'er that's still more trustworthy than some round earth shill getting paid to popularize science 🙄

Yet we are the ones that need to research the facts.

45

Flat Earth Community / Re: Convex Earth Documentary

« on: March 26, 2018, 11:30:41 AM »

I like the way you are changing their own wording in an attempt to make it sound less like utter nonsense.

You missed out ancient time traveling astronauts though. Or are you just going to say you couldn't find that one?

A lot of people think that the ancients were depicting UFOs in their artwork. Speculating on such is not a "lie".

I'm not calling him a liar, I am pointing out that he likely mentally ill. People who hallucinate are not lying, their reality is valid to them. They are, however, not RELIABLE to tell us the true nature of things.

The news article I posted on page one says that all of the experiments had participation of engineers and professionals at different institutes. Are you expecting us to believe that he spread his "hallucinations" to other people too?

From their convex Earth docu they said they launched atmospheric probes with: "iridium tracking HD cameras with gravitational lenses and infrared and ultraviolet filters." So yeah...this is basically just a bunch of mumbo-jumbo. Let's start with iridium. It is a rare heavy metal that exist almost exclusive in the crust. There is some in the atmosphere, mostly deposited by meteorites. It is in tiny amounts and not something you can track with an HD camera. I guess you could say they are tracking iridium satellites, but that doesn't make sense/doesn't fit with a FE/not what they said. Second, gravitational lenses? Sounds like they heard about relativistic lensing and didn't realize it was an effect of gravity and not something you can put on your camera.

So are they lying or just idiots?

You do realize that there are some translation errors in this, right? We will have to see more about this before picking out a word and trying to determine its context.

Heaven forbid anyone thinks I'm calling the co-founder of your merry band of 'scientists' a liar :

https://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?depth=1&hl=en&nv=1&rurl=translate.google.com&sl=auto&sp=nmt4&tl=en&u=https://www.ufo.com.br/artigos/urandir-fernandes-de-oliveira-do-charlatanismo-ao-estelionato/&xid=17259,15700022,15700105,15700124,15700126,15700149,15700168,15700173,15700186,15700201&usg=ALkJrhjzut3Zfxpyo0Ew6GU1d-mffsf8Zg

I'm sure you have a perfectly reasonable explanation for this. It is translated after all... And from a UFO site... But you don't mind that as we already know.

http://rense.com/general32/abac.htm

And who knows who wrote this... Obviously round earthers conspiring to make this poor chap appear to be lying scum.

46

Flat Earth Community / Re: Convex Earth Documentary

« on: March 25, 2018, 07:36:28 PM »

I like the way you are changing their own wording in an attempt to make it sound less like utter nonsense.

You missed out ancient time traveling astronauts though. Or are you just going to say you couldn't find that one?

A lot of people think that the ancients were depicting UFOs in their artwork. Speculating on such is not a "lie".

I'm not calling him a liar, I am pointing out that he likely mentally ill. People who hallucinate are not lying, their reality is valid to them. They are, however, not RELIABLE to tell us the true nature of things.

The news article I posted on page one says that all of the experiments had participation of engineers and professionals at different institutes. Are you expecting us to believe that he spread his "hallucinations" to other people too?

From their convex Earth docu they said they launched atmospheric probes with: "iridium tracking HD cameras with gravitational lenses and infrared and ultraviolet filters." So yeah...this is basically just a bunch of mumbo-jumbo. Let's start with iridium. It is a rare heavy metal that exist almost exclusive in the crust. There is some in the atmosphere, mostly deposited by meteorites. It is in tiny amounts and not something you can track with an HD camera. I guess you could say they are tracking iridium satellites, but that doesn't make sense/doesn't fit with a FE/not what they said. Second, gravitational lenses? Sounds like they heard about relativistic lensing and didn't realize it was an effect of gravity and not something you can put on your camera.

So are they lying or just idiots?

You do realize that there are some translation errors in this, right? We will have to see more about this before picking out a word and trying to determine its context.

I love it Tom, I'm genuinely unsure whether or not your responses are parody now.

Ancient time traveling astronauts... Amazing.

47

Flat Earth Community / Re: Convex Earth Documentary

« on: March 23, 2018, 02:20:25 PM »

I generally did believe NASA and Co to be telling the truth. But when I saw some of the bubbles in space videos and sneaker prints on the moon pictures, then I didn't believe NASA as much.

Who's in the category of "and Co"?  The other space agencies? Anyone else?

I'm still very curious about this. How does Tom determine who to listen to? Why listen to this Brazilian guy, for example, instead of deGrasse Tyson? Is the Japanese space agency trustworthy, but NASA and SpaceX aren't?

He has a very thought out method for determining who to listen to, it's a method known as confirmation bias. If someone says something he already thinks, they must be trustworthy.

It's a method we all have, but most of us are silly and try to suppress it.

Its a matter of honesty vs dishonesty. In order to discredit this Brazilian guy, you will need to produce evidence of him lying, like evidence has been produced against NASA.

So Tom, thank you for showing your hand, for finally giving me solid evidence that you are neither particularly rational nor scientific in your beliefs.

Because its sooo rational to trust the word of an organization which has produced fake content over the word of an organization which has not.

Because its sooo rational to discredit someone and brand them a LIAR because of an odd experience they had as a child.

THAT is irrational. Do you guys even listen to yourselves?

I'm sorry Tom, but I will not debate fantasy.

Time traveling ancient astronaughts, ancient Egyptian artifacts that realign human cells, teleportation devices and ancient Bolivian flutes that can manipulate human brainwaves are fantasy.

This is deeply silly stuff and, again, I'm surprised your need to avoid admitting to an error in judgement is pushing you to associate Zeteticism and FE with them.

All musical instruments "manipulate brainwaves". Quantum teleportation does exist. Certain vibrations and resonances do affect cell cultures.

If you actually have anything that shows them to be LIARS let us know.

I like the way you are changing their own wording in an attempt to make it sound less like utter nonsense.

You missed out ancient time traveling astronauts though. Or are you just going to say you couldn't find that one?

48

Flat Earth Community / Re: Convex Earth Documentary

« on: March 23, 2018, 02:09:09 PM »

I generally did believe NASA and Co to be telling the truth. But when I saw some of the bubbles in space videos and sneaker prints on the moon pictures, then I didn't believe NASA as much.

Who's in the category of "and Co"?  The other space agencies? Anyone else?

I'm still very curious about this. How does Tom determine who to listen to? Why listen to this Brazilian guy, for example, instead of deGrasse Tyson? Is the Japanese space agency trustworthy, but NASA and SpaceX aren't?

He has a very thought out method for determining who to listen to, it's a method known as confirmation bias. If someone says something he already thinks, they must be trustworthy.

It's a method we all have, but most of us are silly and try to suppress it.

Its a matter of honesty vs dishonesty. In order to discredit this Brazilian guy, you will need to produce evidence of him lying, like evidence has been produced against NASA.

So Tom, thank you for showing your hand, for finally giving me solid evidence that you are neither particularly rational nor scientific in your beliefs.

Because its sooo rational to trust the word of an organization which has produced fake content over the word of an organization which has not.

Because its sooo rational to discredit someone and brand them a LIAR because of an odd experience they had as a child.

THAT is irrational. Do you guys even listen to yourselves?

I'm sorry Tom, but I will not debate fantasy.

Time traveling ancient astronaughts, ancient Egyptian artifacts that realign human cells, teleportation devices and ancient Bolivian flutes that can manipulate human brainwaves are fantasy.

This is deeply silly stuff and, again, I'm surprised your need to avoid admitting to an error in judgement is pushing you to associate Zeteticism and FE with them.

49

Flat Earth Community / Re: Convex Earth Documentary

« on: March 23, 2018, 09:57:27 AM »

He has a very thought out method for determining who to listen to, it's a method known as confirmation bias. If someone says something he already thinks, they must be trustworthy.

Pretty much summed up in this Wiki page:

https://wiki.tfes.org/Place_of_the_Conspiracy_in_FET

P1) If personally unverifiable evidence contradicts an obvious truth then the evidence is fabricated

P2) The Flat Earth is an obvious truth

So even though P2 is not backed up by any evidence, just declared to be true, they can dismiss the tsunami of evidence showing it to be wrong.
So there has been no actual response to Elon Musk's launch, no evidence that it was faked, for example.
But if the earth is flat and space travel must therefore be faked (not quite sure how those two things are connected, even if the earth were flat surely we could still develop the technology to leave it, but given that all space travel shows a globe earth it's declared to be fake) so the launch must have been faked somehow.

It's easy to prove oneself right about anything if one dismisses all the evidence showing one is wrong.

It was always the attempted hijacking of the rational high ground by certain FE believers that really stuck in my throat.

So Tom, thank you for showing your hand, for finally giving me solid evidence that you are neither particularly rational nor scientific in your beliefs.

But even more than that, thanks for showing us that you will support and argue for even the most ludicrous of nonsense rather than admit to being wrong.

50

Flat Earth Community / Re: Convex Earth Documentary

« on: March 23, 2018, 07:25:34 AM »

I generally did believe NASA and Co to be telling the truth. But when I saw some of the bubbles in space videos and sneaker prints on the moon pictures, then I didn't believe NASA as much.

Who's in the category of "and Co"?  The other space agencies? Anyone else?

I'm still very curious about this. How does Tom determine who to listen to? Why listen to this Brazilian guy, for example, instead of deGrasse Tyson? Is the Japanese space agency trustworthy, but NASA and SpaceX aren't?

He has a very thought out method for determining who to listen to, it's a method known as confirmation bias. If someone says something he already thinks, they must be trustworthy.

It's a method we all have, but most of us are silly and try to suppress it.

51

Flat Earth Community / Re: Convex Earth Documentary

« on: March 22, 2018, 08:31:24 PM »

None of that sounds much different than what is seen on Ancient Aliens by The History Channel.

So? What do entertainment channels have to do with it?

The 'History' Channel is not offering itself up as a scientific research center.

More importantly you weren't defending the History Channel as being a legit source of scientific research a few posts back.

Anyway this is all good, I don't engage with obvious woo merchants, life's too short.

Bye!

52

Flat Earth Community / Re: Convex Earth Documentary

« on: March 22, 2018, 06:45:18 AM »

I don't see the word "aliens" on either of those pages.

I clicked on the documentary about ancient technologies and found a segment about flutes in Bolivia.

I clicked on the second link and it appears to be a bio of one of the founders, who was inspired to create the institution based on some odd experiences he had as a child where he saw some lights, experienced missing time, and a feeling that he was abducted. He explains that "one of the main goals of Dakila Research is to explain unknown phenomena that are often attributed to ufology".

Do you have something against an organization trying to explain mysterious phenomena that people in Brazil will often attribute to ufology?

Is there something bad about flutes in Bolivia?

Oh Tom, that's too funny. OK I admit the direct mentioning of the word aliens is not there. But don't try to cast these guys as rational and scientific (unless you just want to come across like a massive merchant of woo yourself).

From site:

''In the Association of Ufologists and Researchers of Brazil, Dakila Surveys, Alan leads a team of researchers whose aim is to map ancient and modern civilizations, archaeological sites, extraterrestrial interactions, supernatural events.And still researches in the area of ​​physical and mental well-being.''



Not to mention:


- Ancient Bolivian Flute in tune with human brainwaves.
- Ancient Egyptian alabaster jars that resonate a frequency that can 're-organise' human cells.
- The Mycenaean CD-Rom

And of course the ancient astronauts and time travelers:

https://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?depth=1&hl=en&nv=1&rurl=translate.google.com&sl=auto&sp=nmt4&tl=en&u=https://tvch.com.br/%3Fvideos%3Dtecnologias-na-antiguidade-astronautas-na-antiguidade&xid=17259,15700022,15700105,15700124,15700126,15700149,15700168,15700173,15700186,15700201&usg=ALkJrhjkU1VS46HCuKacAE-cYuJfIsBhJw


I can't wait to see what flim flam you come up with to divert attention from all this.

Or you could just admit you didn't research the organization very thoroughly because you were too carried away by your confirmation bias...

53

Flat Earth Community / Re: Convex Earth Documentary

« on: March 21, 2018, 10:37:08 PM »

Fascinating stuff. These guys are clearly on the cutting edge of science.


https://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?depth=1&hl=en&nv=1&rurl=translate.google.com&sl=auto&sp=nmt4&tl=en&u=http://dakila.com.br/urandir-fernandes-de-oliveira.html&xid=17259,15700022,15700105,15700124,15700126,15700149,15700168,15700173,15700186,15700201&usg=ALkJrhh-kR9GIc6tiW7kV5eWG5aLAjUnXw

54

Flat Earth Community / Re: Convex Earth Documentary

« on: March 21, 2018, 10:22:05 PM »

https://m.facebook.com/DakilaResearch/?locale2=en_GB

I particularly like the piece on ancient alien technology.

Come now, is the cognitive bias really so strong that you're willing to look past the clear evidence that these guys are BS woo merchants?

Sad.

I did an alt-f find and the word "alien" doesn't appear on that page anywhere.

Just follow the link in this thread. It's there if you want to find it.

https://m.facebook.com/DakilaResearch/photos/a.161765254422655.1073741828.161764237756090/167020153897165/?type=3&source=48

But I guess your ok with the ancient Egyptian cell reorganizing technology at least.

I mean this is the kind of content I think FE should be thrown in with, I'm just surprised you'd want FE to be associate with that kind of thing.

55

Flat Earth Community / Re: Convex Earth Documentary

« on: March 21, 2018, 08:56:46 PM »

Or the vessels found in Egyptian pyramids that resonate in such a way as to reorganize the cells in the human body.

Some legit science going on there.

56

Flat Earth Community / Re: Convex Earth Documentary

« on: March 21, 2018, 08:54:33 PM »

https://m.facebook.com/DakilaResearch/?locale2=en_GB

I particularly like the piece on ancient alien technology.

Come now, is the cognitive bias really so strong that you're willing to look past the clear evidence that these guys are BS woo merchants?

Sad.

57

Flat Earth Investigations / Re: deGrasse Tyson cashing in on FET again.

« on: March 21, 2018, 09:43:07 AM »

You know what, forget it, you really aren't worth it.

58

Flat Earth Investigations / Re: deGrasse Tyson cashing in on FET again.

« on: March 21, 2018, 09:18:59 AM »

Erm, you do realize you made the claim there was a high number of high profile RE profiteers and offered up the fact that you would not back up the claim yourself?

Yes. We're too high-profile a site for me to give them the PageRank. I'm sorry if that upsets you.

Please don't try to make it look like I'm badgering you for info out of nowhere.

It was a much more general comment. Don't take things so personally, even if you do fit the description.

And I am happy to discuss, that's what I'm doing, just my angle on this particular discussion is that it's a distraction from the actual shape of the earth.

Is that ok with you?

Quite literally, no. Posting about how you don't like a certain subject is off-topic posting, which is not seen to kindly in the upper fora. Refer to the forum rules. If you find a topic uninteresting or distracting, simply don't engage with it. There's no reason to write an exposé about it.

What 'upsets me' is you making claims and using ridiculously flimsy excuses as to why you won't provide any evidence of your claims.

Why make the claim in the first place?

59

Flat Earth Investigations / Re: deGrasse Tyson cashing in on FET again.

« on: March 21, 2018, 08:47:51 AM »

And do you regard that as a bad thing?

Yes. (Sorry, I missed that message earlier)

This thread is a stupid distraction.

A distraction from what? You do realise that this is a discussion forum, right? There's no explicit objective, and no final boss that you desperately want to get to. Everything is optional and voluntary. If you do not wish to discuss the subject, no one's forcing you¹.

but refuse to provide any names with the laughable excuse that they do not wish to promote them!

Look, I'm not a fan of how SEO works, either. More to the point, what's your laughable excuse for not simply Googling them?

¹ - Unless you're an FE'er. In that case, expect people constantly asking why you're not interested in some discussions, and acting as if they were entitled to your attention.

And I am happy to discuss, that's what I'm doing, just my angle on this particular discussion is that it's a distraction from the actual shape of the earth.

Is that ok with you?

60

Flat Earth Investigations / Re: deGrasse Tyson cashing in on FET again.

« on: March 21, 2018, 08:45:38 AM »

This thread is a stupid distraction.

A distraction from what? You do realise that this is a discussion forum, right? There's no explicit objective, and no final boss that you desperately want to get to. Everything is optional and voluntary. If you do not wish to discuss the subject, no one's forcing you¹.

but refuse to provide any names with the laughable excuse that they do not wish to promote them!

Look, I'm not a fan of how SEO works, either. More to the point, what's your laughable excuse for not simply Googling them?

¹ - Unless you're an FE'er. In that case, expect people constantly asking why you're not interested in some discussions, and acting as if they were entitled to your attention.

Erm, you do realize you made the claim there was a high number of high profile RE profiteers and offered up the fact that you would not back up the claim yourself?

Please don't try to make it look like I'm badgering you for info out of nowhere.