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Offline OrigamiBoy

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GPS?
« on: December 05, 2017, 06:00:05 PM »
Hey, I am an electronics enthusiast and have recently gone on a cruise in the Carribean, I brought along with me my homemade GPS inside of an Altoids Tin (Something like this: ). When I was on the cruise, there were no cell towers anywhere and I got reading very quickly (Like within 5s). Please note: When I am in my apartment (I live in NY) It takes around 30s to get a reading. Even if there was a cell unit on the cruise(There was not, I did not get any cell reception) don't you think I would get faster readings in NY where there are cell towers all around? GPS module used: https://www.adafruit.com/product/746.

PS: Don't try to lecture me on how GPS modules work, I know the ins and outs of them like my own house.
Also: Try to only give me scientific evidence, nothing like: "They probably have a secret cell unit on the ship just for this purpose" or "THE GPS UNIT IS FAKE"

Good Luck debunking this! :)
« Last Edit: December 05, 2017, 07:02:19 PM by OrigamiBoy »
These are very desperate people - trying SO hard to maintain this one theory that they are prepared to shut their minds to the hundreds of crazy things they have to say to defend it.

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Offline OrigamiBoy

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Re: GPS?
« Reply #1 on: December 06, 2017, 06:42:59 PM »
The captain himself said there was no way of getting a cell reception on the cruise, I asked.
These are very desperate people - trying SO hard to maintain this one theory that they are prepared to shut their minds to the hundreds of crazy things they have to say to defend it.

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: GPS?
« Reply #2 on: December 06, 2017, 06:47:12 PM »
Look up the LORAN system. This is one example of non-satellite navigation at sea, and is a system that is already deployed world wide. The latest version of LORAN, in fact, is intercompatible with GPS.

Offline RJDO

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Re: GPS?
« Reply #3 on: December 06, 2017, 06:55:05 PM »
Look up the LORAN system. This is one example of non-satellite navigation at sea, and is a system that is already deployed world wide. The latest version of LORAN, in fact, is intercompatible with GPS.

How does LORAN work when 200 miles of the coast?

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Offline OrigamiBoy

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Re: GPS?
« Reply #4 on: December 06, 2017, 07:00:06 PM »
ok LORAN, but the module is a GPS module, not a LORAN receiver  ::)
Please research the module I used, its data number is gtpa013.

The 37 page data sheet for it does not mention LORAN once.
« Last Edit: December 06, 2017, 07:05:09 PM by OrigamiBoy »
These are very desperate people - trying SO hard to maintain this one theory that they are prepared to shut their minds to the hundreds of crazy things they have to say to defend it.

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: GPS?
« Reply #5 on: December 06, 2017, 07:05:05 PM »
ok LORAN, but the module is a GPS module, not a LORAN receiver  ::)

The last version of LORAN, eLORAN, claims to be interoperable with GPS.

http://www.insidegnss.com/node/1571

Quote
Among the IAT’s key findings: “eLoran is the only cost-effective backup for national needs; it is completely interoperable with and independent of GPS, with different propagation and failure mechanisms, plus significantly superior robustness to radio frequency interference and jamming.”
« Last Edit: December 06, 2017, 07:20:26 PM by Tom Bishop »

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Offline OrigamiBoy

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Re: GPS?
« Reply #6 on: December 06, 2017, 07:10:15 PM »
These are very desperate people - trying SO hard to maintain this one theory that they are prepared to shut their minds to the hundreds of crazy things they have to say to defend it.

Offline RJDO

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Re: GPS?
« Reply #7 on: December 06, 2017, 07:10:45 PM »
ok LORAN, but the module is a GPS module, not a LORAN receiver  ::)

The last version of LORAN, eLORAN, claims to be interoperable with GPS.

http://www.insidegnss.com/node/1571

Quote
Among the IAT’s key findings: “eLoran is the only cost-effective backup for national needs; it is completely interoperable with and independent of GPS, with different propagation and failure mechanisms, plus significantly superior robustness to radio frequency interference and jamming.”

So much wrong here. Even the link is horrible. It does NOT explain how LORAN works. If I didn't know better, you are just saying words that hold absolutely no meaning. LORAN does not describe why he would get a GPS signal.

Offline RJDO

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Re: GPS?
« Reply #8 on: December 06, 2017, 07:14:32 PM »
Pretty sad it was shut down :/

http://www.cnn.com/2010/TECH/02/08/loran.navigation.shutdown/index.html

It was, but look at dGPS. It is what Tom is trying to prove with LORAN, but failing to describe. Heck, I will give him the benefit, and say he meant eDLORAN, but even then, it doesn't help why you get a GPS signal.

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Offline OrigamiBoy

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Re: GPS?
« Reply #9 on: December 06, 2017, 07:25:50 PM »
I doubt tom bishop will reply to this, he always "forgets about" threads when he is stumped
These are very desperate people - trying SO hard to maintain this one theory that they are prepared to shut their minds to the hundreds of crazy things they have to say to defend it.

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: GPS?
« Reply #10 on: December 06, 2017, 07:28:55 PM »
Pretty sad it was shut down :/

http://www.cnn.com/2010/TECH/02/08/loran.navigation.shutdown/index.html

It says that LORAN-C was shut down. Presumably they upgraded.

The article I linked in my last post says that the officially stated purpose of eLORAN is to be used as a "backup" for GPS.

It says as well in your article:

Quote
In late 2006, an Independent Assessment Team headed by Bradford Parkinson, known as the "father of GPS," unanimously recommended that an enhanced version of Loran, known as eLORAN, "be completed and retained as the national backup system for GPS," saying it had "critical safety of life, national and economic security, and quality of life applications."

Offline RJDO

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Re: GPS?
« Reply #11 on: December 06, 2017, 07:30:34 PM »
Pretty sad it was shut down :/

http://www.cnn.com/2010/TECH/02/08/loran.navigation.shutdown/index.html

It says that LORAN-C was shut down. Presumably they upgraded.

The article I linked in my last post says that the officially stated purpose of eLORAN is to be used as a "backup" for GPS.

It says as well in your article:

Quote
In late 2006, an Independent Assessment Team headed by Bradford Parkinson, known as the "father of GPS," unanimously recommended that an enhanced version of Loran, known as eLORAN, "be completed and retained as the national backup system for GPS," saying it had "critical safety of life, national and economic security, and quality of life applications."

Once again, this doesn't explain why he would get a GPS signal.

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Offline OrigamiBoy

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Re: GPS?
« Reply #12 on: December 06, 2017, 07:36:27 PM »
I got a GPS signal. not a LORAN signal... explain
These are very desperate people - trying SO hard to maintain this one theory that they are prepared to shut their minds to the hundreds of crazy things they have to say to defend it.

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: GPS?
« Reply #13 on: December 06, 2017, 07:37:15 PM »
Once again, this doesn't explain why he would get a GPS signal.

The US has 4 military bases in the Caribbeans and over 12 throughout the Gulf of Mexico area. Why wouldn't they deploy eLORAN there if it's supposed to be a backup for GPS?
« Last Edit: December 06, 2017, 07:40:12 PM by Tom Bishop »

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Offline OrigamiBoy

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Re: GPS?
« Reply #14 on: December 06, 2017, 07:38:36 PM »
IT WAS A GPS SIGNAL EXPLAIN PLEASE
These are very desperate people - trying SO hard to maintain this one theory that they are prepared to shut their minds to the hundreds of crazy things they have to say to defend it.

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: GPS?
« Reply #15 on: December 06, 2017, 07:40:40 PM »
ok LORAN, but the module is a GPS module, not a LORAN receiver  ::)

The last version of LORAN, eLORAN, claims to be interoperable with GPS.

http://www.insidegnss.com/node/1571

Quote
Among the IAT’s key findings: “eLoran is the only cost-effective backup for national needs; it is completely interoperable with and independent of GPS, with different propagation and failure mechanisms, plus significantly superior robustness to radio frequency interference and jamming.”

Offline Roger G

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Re: GPS?
« Reply #16 on: December 06, 2017, 07:41:57 PM »
The last country to actively develop any of the Loran systems was the UK and this service, eLoran was discontinued in December 2015. The system use stations transmitting pulsed low frequency waves which were fixed by the receiver and cross referenced with synchronised signals from other stations. Each wave only gave straight line information based on time taken  to receive the signal. The further the station the longer the time, so cross referencing the signals at the receiver would give a position. It was totally different from GPS, but eLoran used positioning information from both to give greater precision to the positioning accuracy. Loran generally could transmit up to 2500 miles under favourable conditions.

It would also be worth mentioning that the system also relied on the accuracy of the round earth based charting and co-ordinates system as does GPS and wouldn't work effectively with any known flat earth maps.

Roger


Offline RJDO

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Re: GPS?
« Reply #17 on: December 06, 2017, 07:53:43 PM »
The last country to actively develop any of the Loran systems was the UK and this service, eLoran was discontinued in December 2015. The system use stations transmitting pulsed low frequency waves which were fixed by the receiver and cross referenced with synchronised signals from other stations. Each wave only gave straight line information based on time taken  to receive the signal. The further the station the longer the time, so cross referencing the signals at the receiver would give a position. It was totally different from GPS, but eLoran used positioning information from both to give greater precision to the positioning accuracy. Loran generally could transmit up to 2500 miles under favourable conditions.

It would also be worth mentioning that the system also relied on the accuracy of the round earth based charting and co-ordinates system as does GPS and wouldn't work effectively with any known flat earth maps.

Roger

Better man than me....wasn't going to spell that out for him.

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Offline OrigamiBoy

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Re: GPS?
« Reply #18 on: December 06, 2017, 08:26:03 PM »
Bishop Tom, your eLORAN theory is nice, but it does not explain satellite phones. These phones communicate with large satellites, orbiting around 20000 miles above the earth, and provide reception pretty much everywhere, even the north and south poles. One of the satellites that manage calls on these phones is called Iridium(you can do some research on it if you would like). These phones are commonly used when cell towers are knocked out and work perfectly as described. eLORAN has nothing to do with satellite phones so it cannot be used as an excuse.
These are very desperate people - trying SO hard to maintain this one theory that they are prepared to shut their minds to the hundreds of crazy things they have to say to defend it.

Re: GPS?
« Reply #19 on: December 06, 2017, 09:35:49 PM »
Look up the LORAN system. This is one example of non-satellite navigation at sea, and is a system that is already deployed world wide. The latest version of LORAN, in fact, is intercompatible with GPS.
The existance of a does not prove the non-existance of b.