[Scroogie]

Lessee now - as I recall Loran used LF (Low Frequency) signals in the 100 to 200 khz range. GPS uses UHF (Ultra high frequency) signals in the 1,000 MHZ range. The likelihood of a receiver designed for one receiving (or rather passing) signals broadcast by the other is right down there at zero.

In terms of their frequencies the two are as alike as are pogo sticks and butterscotch.

[OrigamiBoy]

Lessee now - as I recall Loran used LF (Low Frequency) signals in the 100 to 200 khz range. GPS uses UHF (Ultra high frequency) signals in the 1,000 MHZ range. The likelihood of a receiver designed for one receiving (or rather passing) signals broadcast by the other is right down there at zero.

In terms of their frequencies the two are as alike as are pogo sticks and butterscotch.

Yes, receivers are designed for a specific purpose. If they were not so precise, they would pick up signals from things they don't care about, and it would cause major electrical noise.

[Buran]

Bishop Tom, your eLORAN theory is nice, but it does not explain satellite phones. These phones communicate with large satellites, orbiting around 20000 miles above the earth, and provide reception pretty much everywhere, even the north and south poles. One of the satellites that manage calls on these phones is called Iridium(you can do some research on it if you would like). These phones are commonly used when cell towers are knocked out and work perfectly as described. eLORAN has nothing to do with satellite phones so it cannot be used as an excuse.

The topic was about GPS, not satellite phones.

You aren't going to get anywhere with this debate since it's such a technical area.

I think a better question for those pushing the eLORAN system is

    1. What was the system being used prior to the eLORAN system, and
    2. Why would they make up the need for satellites when a land based system would be available? I'm looking at private companies here since land based infrastructure is much cheeper than orbital sats.

[OrigamiBoy]

Bishop Tom, your eLORAN theory is nice, but it does not explain satellite phones. These phones communicate with large satellites, orbiting around 20000 miles above the earth, and provide reception pretty much everywhere, even the north and south poles. One of the satellites that manage calls on these phones is called Iridium(you can do some research on it if you would like). These phones are commonly used when cell towers are knocked out and work perfectly as described. eLORAN has nothing to do with satellite phones so it cannot be used as an excuse.

The topic was about GPS, not satellite phones.

You aren't going to get anywhere with this debate since it's such a technical area.

I think a better question for those pushing the eLORAN system is

    1. What was the system being used prior to the eLORAN system, and
    2. Why would they make up the need for satellites when a land based system would be available? I'm looking at private companies here since land based infrastructure is much cheeper than orbital sats.

If you read the dates, that was posted months ago, and it has separated off into many different threads.

[Macarios]

What frequencies uses eLORAN?
How those radio waves propagate?

What frequencies uses GPS?
How those radio waves propagate?

[OrigamiBoy]

LORAN uses 3-8 MEGA-hz, and GPS uses 1.2 to 1.5 GIGA-hz

these are way too different to be cross-compatible.

Here is the data sheet for the IC I used:
https://cdn-shop.adafruit.com/datasheets/GlobalTop-FGPMMOPA6H-Datasheet-V0A.pdf

in all 37 pages it does not mention loran once.

[OrigamiBoy]

Also, check this out, this is really cool:
https://www.ntia.doc.gov/files/ntia/publications/2003-allochrt.pdf

These are most the American frequencies nicely organized. I don't want to get to off topic, but as you can see there are tons of different frequencies dedicated to satellites. Why would they go through the trouble making up tons of satellites, and dedicating frequencies to them when the common day person would never even look at charts like this. If it was faked, It must of taking tons of effort to make up, create documentation, and organize all these fake satellites. Who's getting paid to do this? Why has absolutely no one official come out and said that the government is pulling an elaborate prank on everyone? Why would they go through the trouble doing daily broadcasts from the ISS, it must be extremely expansive to fund all that. If I was faking the round earth, I'd probably not spend thousands of dollars every day to fake an ISS broadcast.

Sorry if this is off topic, It may need a thread of its own.

[Buran]

My apologies. I didn't look at the dates. I had actually looked thru this thread right after I started my own about GPS lol.

I thought some more about this argument, and I don't think Tom was saying that it is absolutely eLORAN that is responsible for GPS, just that there is a way for GPS to work without satellites.

[inquisitive]

My apologies. I didn't look at the dates. I had actually looked thru this thread right after I started my own about GPS lol.

I thought some more about this argument, and I don't think Tom was saying that it is absolutely eLORAN that is responsible for GPS, just that there is a way for GPS to work without satellites.

Tom has not described an alternative system in any detail though.

[OrigamiBoy]

My apologies. I didn't look at the dates. I had actually looked thru this thread right after I started my own about GPS lol.

I thought some more about this argument, and I don't think Tom was saying that it is absolutely eLORAN that is responsible for GPS, just that there is a way for GPS to work without satellites.

Tom has not described an alternative system in any detail though.

We have already killed tom's eloran argument, I'm just waiting for him or someone else to bring up another point for us to debunk

[Buran]

My apologies. I didn't look at the dates. I had actually looked thru this thread right after I started my own about GPS lol.

I thought some more about this argument, and I don't think Tom was saying that it is absolutely eLORAN that is responsible for GPS, just that there is a way for GPS to work without satellites.

Tom has not described an alternative system in any detail though.

We have already killed tom's eloran argument, I'm just waiting for him or someone else to bring up another point for us to debunk

I look at it as a thought exercise on what is possible, not an absolute.  It is intriguing to think of possible alternatives.  I had never really thought about how GPS works and how effective satellites are at locating stuff until talking on this forum.  I have learned now just how necessary they are.

[Macarios]

My apologies. I didn't look at the dates. I had actually looked thru this thread right after I started my own about GPS lol.

I thought some more about this argument, and I don't think Tom was saying that it is absolutely eLORAN that is responsible for GPS, just that there is a way for GPS to work without satellites.

1.2 - 1.5 GHz are propagating in straight lines, like light.
Those frequencies don't reflect from ionosphere either.
They need line of sight.
Forcing those frequencies to work from ground at great distances would force assumption that those distances are straight, with one quirk:
if they are straight, light would also travel the same paths, and we see it doesn't.
Tom's statement that light travels in straight lines would be compromised.