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Offline beardo

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Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
« Reply #820 on: August 08, 2014, 08:27:11 AM »
They weren't short and stocky drunkards though.
The Mastery.

Saddam Hussein

Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
« Reply #821 on: August 08, 2014, 11:41:09 AM »
Yes, they're colloquially referred to as dwarves, but the same games point out the fact that the name is a misnomer ascribed to them by ignorant humans who are going by your logic - "They live underground and make machines, therefore dwarves."  They're another variant of mer, same as the Altmer or Dunmer.

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Offline Particle Person

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Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
« Reply #822 on: August 08, 2014, 12:35:04 PM »
Rushy, putting the words "zany and different" in sarcastic quotation marks is not an argument. Can you provide us with an example of a setting that you think is truly unique, and could be described as zany and different without the quotes?
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Online Rushy

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Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
« Reply #823 on: August 08, 2014, 06:30:36 PM »
Yes, they're colloquially referred to as dwarves, but the same games point out the fact that the name is a misnomer ascribed to them by ignorant humans who are going by your logic - "They live underground and make machines, therefore dwarves."  They're another variant of mer, same as the Altmer or Dunmer.

Giving dwarves a different name is not going to magically make them not dwarves. In fact, the TvTropes listing said "these may be under different names, but still count as generic fantasy." If anything, TES simply made them a bit taller, and that's debatable, since some texts reference them as "large children with beards." No matter how hard you want it to be, an underground steampunk race of golden armored, bearded men cannot be considered anything but straight Tolkien photocopying.

Rushy, putting the words "zany and different" in sarcastic quotation marks is not an argument. Can you provide us with an example of a setting that you think is truly unique, and could be described as zany and different without the quotes?

Oh, you must have forgotten about our earlier engagement (or purposely buried the memory of you slinking away from it). There is no such thing as a truly unique setting. Anything a human mind create is based on something that already existed. This is why Saddam's argument that Oblivion is bland and generic, but that Morrowind somehow isn't, is blatantly false. They're both generic fantasy games. In fact, Oblivion is more unique in that its combat system is closer to a FPS than Morrowind's obvious D&D ripoff.


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Offline Particle Person

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Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
« Reply #824 on: August 08, 2014, 07:04:56 PM »
Rushy, putting the words "zany and different" in sarcastic quotation marks is not an argument. Can you provide us with an example of a setting that you think is truly unique, and could be described as zany and different without the quotes?

Oh, you must have forgotten about our earlier engagement (or purposely buried the memory of you slinking away from it). There is no such thing as a truly unique setting. Anything a human mind create is based on something that already existed. This is why Saddam's argument that Oblivion is bland and generic, but that Morrowind somehow isn't, is blatantly false. They're both generic fantasy games. In fact, Oblivion is more unique in that its combat system is closer to a FPS than Morrowind's obvious D&D ripoff.

I accept your autistic definition of the word unique, but it isn't relative to the discussion. We're talking about relative uniqueness, which you seem to understand when you say "Oblivion is more unique". First, you say that uniqueness doesn't real, therefore Morrowind and Oblivion are equally generic. Rock solid logic thus far. Next, you say that Oblivion is actually more unique because of its combat system. That seems like a contradiction.
Your mom is when your mom and you arent your mom.

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Online Rushy

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Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
« Reply #825 on: August 08, 2014, 07:22:15 PM »
Rushy, putting the words "zany and different" in sarcastic quotation marks is not an argument. Can you provide us with an example of a setting that you think is truly unique, and could be described as zany and different without the quotes?

Oh, you must have forgotten about our earlier engagement (or purposely buried the memory of you slinking away from it). There is no such thing as a truly unique setting. Anything a human mind create is based on something that already existed. This is why Saddam's argument that Oblivion is bland and generic, but that Morrowind somehow isn't, is blatantly false. They're both generic fantasy games. In fact, Oblivion is more unique in that its combat system is closer to a FPS than Morrowind's obvious D&D ripoff.

I accept your autistic definition of the word unique, but it isn't relative to the discussion. We're talking about relative uniqueness, which you seem to understand when you say "Oblivion is more unique". First, you say that uniqueness doesn't real, therefore Morrowind and Oblivion are equally generic. Rock solid logic thus far. Next, you say that Oblivion is actually more unique because of its combat system. That seems like a contradiction.

Note the difference between the terms "truly unique" and "unique." Think of it as "perfection," where you can get closer, but never really there. Are you done playing word games now?

Offline Blanko

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Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
« Reply #826 on: August 08, 2014, 07:38:09 PM »
In fact, Oblivion is more unique in that its combat system is closer to a FPS than Morrowind's obvious D&D ripoff.

How is that more unique

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Online Rushy

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Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
« Reply #827 on: August 08, 2014, 07:40:42 PM »
In fact, Oblivion is more unique in that its combat system is closer to a FPS than Morrowind's obvious D&D ripoff.

How is that more unique

Many fantasy games maintain a dice-roll or turn based mechanic.

Offline Blanko

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Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
« Reply #828 on: August 08, 2014, 08:00:35 PM »
Yes, but Morrowind also has the same "FPS" mechanics as Oblivion does

I'd think that a combination of FPS and dice rolls is more unique than plain FPS

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Offline Particle Person

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Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
« Reply #829 on: August 08, 2014, 08:11:35 PM »
I thought we were talking about setting, not game mechanics. Combat is shitty in every ES game. Rushy, can you give us an example of a fictional setting that is relatively unique?
Your mom is when your mom and you arent your mom.

Ghost of V

Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
« Reply #830 on: August 08, 2014, 08:19:01 PM »
Alex, do you agree that combat in Morrowind is shitty?

I think Oblivion improved on the combat mechanics, making it more suitable for the overall feel of the ES series since it is easily way more forgiveable than Morrowind's dice rolls. This in turn helps promote adventuring (which I feel is the main focus of the games), especially early on since you don't die all the time because of misses. It's a lot less discouraging.

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Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
« Reply #831 on: August 08, 2014, 08:25:47 PM »
Alex, do you agree that combat in Morrowind is shitty?

Yes. I don't mind that the chance to hit is based on dice rolls, but the mechanics of pure melee or ranged combat just aren't that interesting. They're merely functional.
Your mom is when your mom and you arent your mom.

Offline Blanko

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Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
« Reply #832 on: August 08, 2014, 08:27:35 PM »
Nothing wrong with an effective casual filter :^)

Ghost of V

Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
« Reply #833 on: August 08, 2014, 08:44:25 PM »
Nothing wrong with an effective casual filter :^)
There's a difference between "casual filters" and making the game more accessible.

Offline Blanko

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Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
« Reply #834 on: August 08, 2014, 09:00:30 PM »
Accessibility doesn't mean removing game mechanics, though. In any case, Oblivion might be more "accessible", but it's certainly not better thought out - it's probably one of the few cases in which character progression makes you relatively weaker instead of stronger.

Ghost of V

Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
« Reply #835 on: August 08, 2014, 09:01:01 PM »
Accessibility doesn't mean removing game mechanics, though. In any case, Oblivion might be more "accessible", but it's certainly not better thought out - it's probably one of the few cases in which character progression makes you relatively weaker instead of stronger.

Perhaps, but that doesn't have much to do with combat mechanics.

Personally, I like the fact that the higher level I am the stronger the enemies are. That makes sense to me. Slaying a dremora lord in one hit would be immersion-breaking.
« Last Edit: August 08, 2014, 09:07:42 PM by Vauxhall »

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Online Rushy

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Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
« Reply #836 on: August 08, 2014, 10:07:51 PM »
Yes, but Morrowind also has the same "FPS" mechanics as Oblivion does

No, it doesn't. When I shoot a bow in Oblivion or Skyrim, the game doesn't dice-roll whether the arrow hit or not. Either you aimed well enough to hit your target or you didn't. Skill level only affects damage, not hit or miss.

I'd think that a combination of FPS and dice rolls is more unique than plain FPS

I didn't know we were talking about things that are uniquely bad about Morrowind.

I thought we were talking about setting, not game mechanics. Combat is shitty in every ES game. Rushy, can you give us an example of a fictional setting that is relatively unique?

Are you just going to ask the same question until the answer is different? I might as well be trying to discuss Morrowind with a graffiti'd brick wall.





Offline Blanko

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Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
« Reply #837 on: August 08, 2014, 10:10:30 PM »
welp

Not doing this shit

Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
« Reply #838 on: August 08, 2014, 10:43:08 PM »

Offline Blanko

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Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
« Reply #839 on: August 08, 2014, 10:47:58 PM »