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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Aliens!
« Reply #40 on: June 29, 2023, 09:30:41 AM »
Marco Rubio is not at all a reliable source and is almost certainly lying. My bet is that he's trying to distract from Trump's ongoing legal drama, although it's possible that he just sees this as an opportunity to pander to conspiracy theorists.

Do you have any evidence that Senator Rubio is lying about the official activities of the Senate Intelligence Committee in his capacity as the Vice Chairman of that organization?

You can dress him up with his official titles all you want, but at the end of the day Rubio is still a cynical, dishonest politician aligned with a deeply cynical, dishonest, and fundamentally anti-democratic political faction that have made it clear that their only real goal is to secure as much power as they can for themselves and their ideological allies for as long as possible and by any means necessary. There's no reason to assume that their priorities have radically shifted simply because an unusual subject has come under discussion.

To answer the question more directly, like I said earlier, extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. Instead, all we have here is an implausible and unlikely story, one that sounds more like the clichés of science fiction than real life. That by itself is enough to reasonably conclude that the person telling the story is almost certainly lying. It might be believable if it were told by someone with a strong reputation for honesty, which leads us right to the fact that it was Rubio who told this story, a politician who sees truth and lies only as a means to an end of securing power. Besides, he has nothing to lose by lying. Even if ironclad proof that he was lying came out right now, it wouldn't matter. Republican voters would mostly ignore it, and the few who did take note of it would praise Rubio for "owning the libs" or whatever.

A congressional committee claiming the existence of government whistleblowers on the existence of aliens is also extraordinary, and meets the need for extraordinary evidence that the whistleblowers exist. Your reaction is to deny the evidence and call senate officials liars because if you had to accept it you couldn't explain it.

Politicians might sometimes be selective of the truth, or adopt an alternative interpretation to an event, but rarely do they blatantly lie in the way you're alleging. The Senate Intelligence Committee claiming the existence of whistleblowers is a form of evidence, while your yelling about liars is not evidence at all.

Politico clearly characterizes the situation as multiple senators wanting the public to see the UFO information:

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/06/23/senators-ufo-government-reports-336021



Politico also champions Marco Rubio as a leader of the Senate Intelligence Committee who is directing the executive branch to collect the information:



So his official role is to collect this information to present to the public, yet your position is that he did so and is now lying about what was found.

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Online Lord Dave

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Re: Aliens!
« Reply #41 on: June 29, 2023, 09:31:14 AM »
Remember folks: UFOs include experimental planes that are unidentified.
If you are going to DebOOonK an expert then you have to at least provide a source with credentials of equal or greater relevance. Even then, it merely shows that some experts disagree with each other.

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Aliens!
« Reply #42 on: June 29, 2023, 09:42:44 AM »
They aren't talking about sightings anymore. Now they are talking about the government having possession of craft of non-human origin.

https://www.newsnationnow.com/banfield/rubio-recent-ufo-whistleblower-isnt-the-only-one/




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Offline AATW

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Re: Aliens!
« Reply #43 on: June 29, 2023, 09:59:16 AM »
Quote
Whistleblower David Grusch, who admits he hasn’t seen the supposedly in-hand detritus of unidentified anomalous phenomena (UAP), the official rechristening of UFOs. Nor does he have any firsthand evidence of them; he says he is repeating what other, as-yet-unnamed, people told him

https://www.bu.edu/articles/2023/ex-intelligence-official-us-government-ufo/

Well that's super-compelling.

 :D
Tom: "Claiming incredulity is a pretty bad argument. Calling it "insane" or "ridiculous" is not a good argument at all."

TFES Wiki Occam's Razor page, by Tom: "What's the simplest explanation; that NASA has successfully designed and invented never before seen rocket technologies from scratch which can accelerate 100 tons of matter to an escape velocity of 7 miles per second"

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Aliens!
« Reply #44 on: June 29, 2023, 10:30:30 AM »
Actually he claims that he does have evidence, and that he provided it to investigators.

https://www.newsnationnow.com/space/military-whistleblowe-us-ufo-retrieval-program/

Quote
“I thought it was totally nuts and I thought at first I was being deceived, it was a ruse,” Grusch told Coulthart. “People started to confide in me. Approach me. I have plenty of senior, former, intelligence officers that came to me, many of which I knew almost my whole career, that confided in me that they were part of a program.”

Grusch said those officials named the program, which he had never heard of before.

“They told me, based on their oral testimony, and they provided me documents and other proof, that there was in fact a program that the UAP Task Force was not read into,” he said.

Grusch alleges the U.S. government has recovered non-human craft for decades. He recently filed a whistle-blower complaint, stating he gave what he referred to as classified “proof” to Congress and the Intelligence Community Inspector General.

NewsNation has confirmed Grusch’s credentials and resume, but has not seen or verified the alleged proof he said he provided to investigators. Grusch said he can’t show NewsNation the evidence for national security reasons.

Your article must mean that he responsibly provided his evidence to Congress, but not to the media, because he does claim to have evidence.

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Offline AATW

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Re: Aliens!
« Reply #45 on: June 29, 2023, 10:43:12 AM »
Actually he claims that he does have evidence, and that he provided it to investigators.
OK. So are you on team globe now then? I'm struggling to see how alien life would be possible in your model.

My issue with this, with my very much globe hat on, is that if there is alien life out there it's almost certainly too far away to contact us, much less meet us.
If Einstein is right about the speed of light being a universal speed limit then given the nearest star is 4 light years away it seems vanishingly unlikely that any life out there would be close enough to visit in any reasonable timescale. As far as we know warp drives are very much in the realm of science fiction. But obviously it would be arrogant to assume we know everything.

It is interesting though that since the advent of smart phones, where now everyone effectively has a camera on them at all times, there hasn't been an explosion in clear photos of bigfoot, the Lock Ness Monster and UFOs.

In brief, I'm pretty sceptical about all this, but it would be kinda exciting (and a bit terrifying) if these claims are true.
Tom: "Claiming incredulity is a pretty bad argument. Calling it "insane" or "ridiculous" is not a good argument at all."

TFES Wiki Occam's Razor page, by Tom: "What's the simplest explanation; that NASA has successfully designed and invented never before seen rocket technologies from scratch which can accelerate 100 tons of matter to an escape velocity of 7 miles per second"

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Aliens!
« Reply #46 on: June 29, 2023, 11:01:33 AM »
I think these whistleblowers are real people and will likely make more claims in the Congressional hearings on this. But no, I have doubts that there are really aliens myself.

I suspect that all of this is more likely to be part of a government scam to try to unite the world against a common threat and enact a one world government like Wernher Von Braun predicted, and like what figures like Ronald Reagan and Bill Clinton have suggested.



In this interview Bill Clinton seems to have some prepared statements and interrupts the host to invite us to think about how great it would be if we were threatened by aliens. Bill Clinton suggests that it would be just great and that it is perhaps the "only way" the world can come together. The whole world could unite together as one to fight against the aliens and be at peace with each other.

Ronald Reagan made similar statements about how good being threatened by aliens would be for the world. This seems to follow the game plan that Wherner Von Braun warned about.

These remarks about how good being threatened by aliens would be for the world are obviously loony and is a transparent attempt at directed opinion, since we don't know that we could do much to fight aliens, and it is absurd to publicly fantasize about world peace and world unification in a potential alien invasion scenario.
« Last Edit: June 30, 2023, 04:07:36 PM by Tom Bishop »

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Offline honk

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Re: Aliens!
« Reply #47 on: June 29, 2023, 05:19:02 PM »
Marco Rubio is not at all a reliable source and is almost certainly lying. My bet is that he's trying to distract from Trump's ongoing legal drama, although it's possible that he just sees this as an opportunity to pander to conspiracy theorists.

Do you have any evidence that Senator Rubio is lying about the official activities of the Senate Intelligence Committee in his capacity as the Vice Chairman of that organization?

You can dress him up with his official titles all you want, but at the end of the day Rubio is still a cynical, dishonest politician aligned with a deeply cynical, dishonest, and fundamentally anti-democratic political faction that have made it clear that their only real goal is to secure as much power as they can for themselves and their ideological allies for as long as possible and by any means necessary. There's no reason to assume that their priorities have radically shifted simply because an unusual subject has come under discussion.

To answer the question more directly, like I said earlier, extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. Instead, all we have here is an implausible and unlikely story, one that sounds more like the clichés of science fiction than real life. That by itself is enough to reasonably conclude that the person telling the story is almost certainly lying. It might be believable if it were told by someone with a strong reputation for honesty, which leads us right to the fact that it was Rubio who told this story, a politician who sees truth and lies only as a means to an end of securing power. Besides, he has nothing to lose by lying. Even if ironclad proof that he was lying came out right now, it wouldn't matter. Republican voters would mostly ignore it, and the few who did take note of it would praise Rubio for "owning the libs" or whatever.

A congressional committee claiming the existence of government whistleblowers on the existence of aliens is also extraordinary, and meets the need for extraordinary evidence that the whistleblowers exist. Your reaction is to deny the evidence and call senate officials liars because if you had to accept it you couldn't explain it.

Politicians might sometimes be selective of the truth, or adopt an alternative interpretation to an event, but rarely do they blatantly lie in the way you're alleging. The Senate Intelligence Committee claiming the existence of whistleblowers is a form of evidence, while your yelling about liars is not evidence at all.

Politico clearly characterizes the situation as multiple senators wanting the public to see the UFO information:

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/06/23/senators-ufo-government-reports-336021



Politico also champions Marco Rubio as a leader of the Senate Intelligence Committee who is directing the executive branch to collect the information:



So his official role is to collect this information to present to the public, yet your position is that he did so and is now lying about what was found.

All you're doing is using a lot of words to try and characterize Rubio's comments as actually being from the Senate or the committee as a whole. And yes, Politico does seem to be doing the same thing. I think it's pretty sloppy journalism, as anybody can read the article and see that the facts contradict that narrative. Neither the Senate nor the committee made these explosive claims about secret coverups of alien visitations. Only one very dishonest man with a strong motive to lie and a history of pandering to conspiracy theorists did.
« Last Edit: June 30, 2023, 06:14:18 AM by honk »
ur retartet but u donut even no it and i walnut tell u y

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Offline Dr Van Nostrand

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Re: Aliens!
« Reply #48 on: June 30, 2023, 01:02:48 AM »
Politicians calling for the investigation of UFOs and release of UFO evidence are simply click-baiting the conspiracy redneck constituency. They know there's no secret alien autopsy but it sells really well. It works even if aliens aren't real.
Round Earther patiently looking for a better deal...

If the world is flat, it means that I have been deceived by a global, multi-generational conspiracy spending trillions of dollars over hundreds of years.
If the world is round, it means that you’re just an idiot who believes stupid crap on the internet.

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Aliens!
« Reply #49 on: July 05, 2023, 08:32:05 AM »
Marco Rubio randomly and opportunistically lying just doesn't make sense. It isn't only David Grusch and Maco Rubio claiming this. Ross Coulthart was the News Nation reporter who initially interviewed Grusch and says that other people have come forward to him, and that the Inspector General of the intelligence community had referred Grusch story to Congress because there are other people making the same claims in depositions.



    @3:00

    News Nation: And you say since David gruff came forward, the people thst have since came forward to you, you are saying that they are making the exact same claims?

    Coulthart: Absolutely.

    Coulthart: And more importantly just to emphasize this, the Inspector General of the intelligence community has already desposed, he has taken information from some of these people, which is why he found Mr. Grusch's allegations credible and urgent and referred them to the Congress.
« Last Edit: July 05, 2023, 08:42:55 AM by Tom Bishop »

Offline Action80

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Re: Aliens!
« Reply #50 on: July 05, 2023, 10:27:51 AM »
Actually he claims that he does have evidence, and that he provided it to investigators.
OK. So are you on team globe now then? I'm struggling to see how alien life would be possible in your model.

My issue with this, with my very much globe hat on, is that if there is alien life out there it's almost certainly too far away to contact us, much less meet us.
If Einstein is right about the speed of light being a universal speed limit then given the nearest star is 4 light years away it seems vanishingly unlikely that any life out there would be close enough to visit in any reasonable timescale. As far as we know warp drives are very much in the realm of science fiction. But obviously it would be arrogant to assume we know everything.

It is interesting though that since the advent of smart phones, where now everyone effectively has a camera on them at all times, there hasn't been an explosion in clear photos of bigfoot, the Lock Ness Monster and UFOs.

In brief, I'm pretty sceptical about all this, but it would be kinda exciting (and a bit terrifying) if these claims are true.
You do not need to be on a "team globe" to believe in what should properly be described as extradimensional (not extraterrestrial) beings.

You are spot on with the lack of "Explosive" evidence, given the technology of today...solidifies the OMB syndrome...
To be honest I am getting pretty bored of this place.

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Offline Rushy

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Re: Aliens!
« Reply #51 on: July 06, 2023, 01:17:40 PM »
https://www.reddit.com/r/aliens/comments/14rp7w9/from_the_late_2000s_to_the_mid2010s_i_worked_as_a/

Probably fake but a fun write-up. Did you know birds have a unidirectional respiratory system? I learned that today from this post. So, even if it is mostly fiction, it does seem to have some pretty neat biology facts in it.