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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: President Joe Biden
« Reply #520 on: December 18, 2021, 07:03:01 PM »
Actually Biden has repeatedly said that the masses getting vaccinated will end covid.

Your suggestion that the vaccines don't work to provide immunity but may provide a decrease in hospitalizations is irrelevant to Biden being continuously incorrect.
« Last Edit: December 18, 2021, 07:37:55 PM by Tom Bishop »

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Offline Rama Set

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Re: President Joe Biden
« Reply #521 on: December 18, 2021, 07:47:43 PM »
Actually Biden has repeatedly said that the masses getting vaccinated will end covid.

Your suggestion that the vaccines don't work to provide immunity but may provide a decrease in hospitalizations is irrelevant to Biden being continuously incorrect.

Knowing your track record of cherry picking quotes Id like to see a source. I’d imagine he would have said it was a part of the strategy, not the only element.
Th*rk is the worst person on this website.

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Offline stack

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Re: President Joe Biden
« Reply #522 on: December 18, 2021, 07:50:58 PM »
Actually Biden has repeatedly said that the masses getting vaccinated will end covid.

Your point that the vaccines don't work to provide immunity but may provide a decrease in hospitalizations is irrelevant to Biden being continuously incorrect.

US fully vaxxed as of today is 61%. So-called "herd immunity" is somewhere well north of 75% vaxxed. In other words, the "masses" haven't been vaxxed yet. So yeah, the message is get vaxxed. Where's the mystery?

Transmissibility:
Vaccinated people with breakthrough COVID infections had lower viral loads

UCLA study of 12,000 health workers found infected individuals who were unvaccinated shed more viral particles

Vaccinated health care workers who experienced breakthrough COVID-19 infections during the winter of 2020–21 had lower viral loads than their similarly infected but unvaccinated co-workers, according to a new UCLA study.
“These findings should be reassuring for the general public because lower amounts of virus might translate to decreased transmissibility,” Adamson said. “This is another benefit of the vaccines and yet another reason to get vaccinated against COVID-19.”


Cases/Deaths:

Recent data from Minnesota:





Obviously fully vaxxed is preferable.,

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: President Joe Biden
« Reply #523 on: December 18, 2021, 10:18:17 PM »
Actually Biden has repeatedly said that the masses getting vaccinated will end covid.

Your suggestion that the vaccines don't work to provide immunity but may provide a decrease in hospitalizations is irrelevant to Biden being continuously incorrect.

Knowing your track record of cherry picking quotes Id like to see a source. I’d imagine he would have said it was a part of the strategy, not the only element.

He repeatedly says that getting the masses vaccinated will end Covid.

Here is a statement from Dec 3 - https://hannity.com/media-room/going-global-biden-says-america-must-vaccinate-the-world-to-end-covid-in-the-usa/

    President Biden addressed the nation Thursday on new threats posed by COVID’s Omicron-Variant; saying the US must vaccinate the world to ultimately end the Coronavirus pandemic.

    “As we’ve seen with COVID-19 and the delta variant, and now with omicron variant, all that emerged elsewhere. It all came from somewhere else. In order to beat this pandemic, we need to go to where it came from in the rest of the world. We also need to vaccinate the rest of the world.”

Here he is claiming that the vaccine provides immunity:


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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: President Joe Biden
« Reply #524 on: December 18, 2021, 10:33:04 PM »
Obviously fully vaxxed is preferable.,

It is possible that your source is massaging the data on vaccinated vs unvaccinated deaths. Other reports indicate that the vaccinated are at greater risk of death.

See this article from New York Times reporter Alex Berenson:

https://alexberenson.substack.com/p/vaccinated-english-adults-under-60

Quote
The brown line represents weekly deaths from all causes of vaccinated people aged 10-59, per 100,000 people.

The blue line represents weekly deaths from all causes of unvaccinated people per 100,000 in the same age range.



I have checked the underlying dataset myself and this graph is correct. Vaccinated people under 60 are twice as likely to die as unvaccinated people. And overall deaths in Britain are running well above normal.

I don’t know how to explain this other than vaccine-caused mortality.

The basic data is available here, download the Excel file and see table 4:

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/deaths/datasets/deathsbyvaccinationstatusengland

Medicaltrend.org claims that deaths in Taiwan exceed deaths from Covid-19:

https://medicaltrend.org/2021/10/10/taiwan-death-from-covid-19-vaccination-exceeds-death-from-covid-19/

« Last Edit: December 19, 2021, 04:52:36 AM by Tom Bishop »

Re: President Joe Biden
« Reply #525 on: December 18, 2021, 11:24:35 PM »
you present a plot of all-cause mortality over a 50-year age difference over some time period. the young end of that group is least likely to be vaccinated, and least likely to die of any cause. the old end of the group is most likely to be vaccinated, and most likely to die of any cause.

see if you can connect the rest of the dots on your own. (hint: population-level statistics do not track individual outcomes)
I have visited from prestigious research institutions of the highest caliber, to which only our administrator holds with confidence.

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Offline Rama Set

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Re: President Joe Biden
« Reply #526 on: December 19, 2021, 12:50:39 AM »
Actually Biden has repeatedly said that the masses getting vaccinated will end covid.

Your suggestion that the vaccines don't work to provide immunity but may provide a decrease in hospitalizations is irrelevant to Biden being continuously incorrect.

Knowing your track record of cherry picking quotes Id like to see a source. I’d imagine he would have said it was a part of the strategy, not the only element.

He repeatedly says that getting the masses vaccinated will end Covid.

Here is a statement from Dec 3 - https://hannity.com/media-room/going-global-biden-says-america-must-vaccinate-the-world-to-end-covid-in-the-usa/

    President Biden addressed the nation Thursday on new threats posed by COVID’s Omicron-Variant; saying the US must vaccinate the world to ultimately end the Coronavirus pandemic.

    “As we’ve seen with COVID-19 and the delta variant, and now with omicron variant, all that emerged elsewhere. It all came from somewhere else. In order to beat this pandemic, we need to go to where it came from in the rest of the world. We also need to vaccinate the rest of the world.”

Here he is claiming that the vaccine provides immunity:



So he didn’t say vaccination alone will end the pandemic. That’s what I thought.
Th*rk is the worst person on this website.

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: President Joe Biden
« Reply #527 on: December 19, 2021, 01:25:04 AM »
you present a plot of all-cause mortality over a 50-year age difference over some time period. the young end of that group is least likely to be vaccinated, and least likely to die of any cause. the old end of the group is most likely to be vaccinated, and most likely to die of any cause.

see if you can connect the rest of the dots on your own. (hint: population-level statistics do not track individual outcomes)

Yes, there are flaws in the data related to age, but that is likely done on purpose by the organization to obscure data.

British mathematician Norman Fenton analyzed the ONS data and came to the conclusion that the data being released is inconclusive on whether the vaccine is beneficial or not, suggests manipulation, and has segments in his analysis showing that if the data on the older age groups are corrected it can suggest that the vaccine is harmful.



    @14:55
    "and that brings us on to this latest ons report so because this report is on deaths by vaccination status this should give us the necessary all-cause mortality comparisons between the vaccinated and the other vaccinated and hence enable us to determine whether the benefits of the vaccine outweigh the risks now previous versions of this report didn't provide the relevant age categorized data and that made it essentially impossible to draw any firm conclusions but as a result of our own freedom of information request and direct discussions with the authors of the report listed here the ons included some age categorized data in this latest version but the problem is that the age categorizations were 80 plus, 70-79, 60 to 69, and 10 to 59, and that younger age categorization was far too coarse"

The Office for National Statistics originally did not provide age categorized data at all to the public. The age data they did end up releasing, as result of a freedom of information request and prodding, shows a wide age group of 10-59, followed by 60-69, 70-79, and 80 plus. This is the available data. The inaccuracy of the first group is the purposely released data by the government.

When the data from the later age groups are similarly plotted it does suggest that the vaccine is beneficial and results in fewer deaths. However, Dr. Fenton ends up concluding at the end that when the data is corrected it shows that the vaccine is deadly and harmful shortly after taking it and after that there is no significant benefit:



    @24:15
    "so here's the non-covid mortality rate for the 70 to 79 age group and what you can see here is in the steady state the non-covid mortality rate is on average 40 higher in the unvaccinated when it should be the same or low so we can take information like that and compare it with historical life table mortality data to estimate the level of misclassification and when we apply those estimates to the data we get these adjusted plots and in this case the only unexplained observation now is this increased non-covid mortality in the vaccinated shortly after vaccination"

He concludes:



Other topics in the video:



    @09:11
    "the infection rate amongst the vaccinated is higher than the infection rate amongst the unvaccinated when you plot that you can see very clearly here that the vaccinated have a higher infection rate than the unvaccinated for each of the age groups from 30 onwards which seems to indicate that the vaccine has negative effectiveness"

Discussing a Pfizer study:



    @12:00
    "so what we're interested in is comparing all cause mortality and we'd expect to see this kind of scenario if the vaccine is effective problem is that we already know even from the Pfizer study although the numbers are very small that there isn't great evidence for benefits of vaccine in terms of or cause mortality so if you look at the number of deaths in the vaccine arm as opposed to the placebo arm it turned out that there are 21 deaths after six months in the vaccine arm compared to only 15 in the placebo arm which isn't of course statistically significant but nevertheless it's not what you would expect to hope to see if the vaccine was as effective as claimed and if covid was as dangerous as claimed"
« Last Edit: December 19, 2021, 02:17:15 AM by Tom Bishop »

Offline Action80

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Re: President Joe Biden
« Reply #528 on: December 19, 2021, 04:53:59 PM »


Obviously fully vaxxed is preferable.,
Since you cannot provide a firm definition,  all of your post is irrelevant.
It's so hard to have faith in humanity when they do shit like this.

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Offline stack

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Re: President Joe Biden
« Reply #529 on: December 19, 2021, 05:15:13 PM »


Obviously fully vaxxed is preferable.,
Since you cannot provide a firm definition,  all of your post is irrelevant.

Firm definition(s) are in the article. Read before posting.

Offline Action80

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Re: President Joe Biden
« Reply #530 on: December 19, 2021, 05:30:38 PM »


Obviously fully vaxxed is preferable.,
Since you cannot provide a firm definition,  all of your post is irrelevant.

Firm definition(s) are in the article. Read before posting.
I have been reading.  You have not.

Fully vaccinated definition is as changeable as your diaper you wear.
It's so hard to have faith in humanity when they do shit like this.

"I hate the police so I'm gonna burn a Walgreen's!"

Offline Action80

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Re: President Joe Biden
« Reply #531 on: December 19, 2021, 05:34:34 PM »
The bottom line:

Everyone will catch this "virus."

The people needing hospital treatment and/or dying from this "virus" are due to die in a short time anyway, due to the actual cause of their death, either just being old or the comorbidity causing their death.
It's so hard to have faith in humanity when they do shit like this.

"I hate the police so I'm gonna burn a Walgreen's!"

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Offline Rama Set

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Re: President Joe Biden
« Reply #532 on: December 19, 2021, 05:51:29 PM »
The bottom line:

Everyone will catch this "virus."

The people needing hospital treatment and/or dying from this "virus" are due to die in a short time anyway, due to the actual cause of their death, either just being old or the comorbidity causing their death.

Even if all of that were true, so what?
Th*rk is the worst person on this website.

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Offline stack

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Re: President Joe Biden
« Reply #533 on: December 19, 2021, 06:34:47 PM »
The bottom line:

Everyone will catch this "virus."

The people needing hospital treatment and/or dying from this "virus" are due to die in a short time anyway, due to the actual cause of their death, either just being old or the comorbidity causing their death.

Specifically define a "short time".

Causes of death and comorbidities in hospitalized patients with COVID-19

"We found that septic shock and multi organ failure was the most common immediate cause of death, often due to suppurative pulmonary infection....Several comorbidities, such as hypertension, ischemic heart disease, and obesity were present in the vast majority of patients. Our findings reveal that causes of death were directly related to COVID-19 in the majority of decedents, while they appear not to be an immediate result of preexisting health conditions and comorbidities."

So people without Covid yet with some comorbidities would die of Septic shock and multi organ failure in a "short time anyway"? I'm surprised people en masse aren't falling over dead left, right, and center even in non-pandemic times.

Re: President Joe Biden
« Reply #534 on: December 19, 2021, 07:45:18 PM »
Does Action80 ever get tired of being wrong? I've yet to see him be correct on anything. I get he's a troll but even still, c'mon.....

Offline Action80

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Re: President Joe Biden
« Reply #535 on: December 19, 2021, 08:38:05 PM »
The bottom line:

Everyone will catch this "virus."

The people needing hospital treatment and/or dying from this "virus" are due to die in a short time anyway, due to the actual cause of their death, either just being old or the comorbidity causing their death.

Even if all of that were true, so what? I have no dispute with what was written, so I'll write , "so what," in a fashion evading forum rules.
FTFY
It's so hard to have faith in humanity when they do shit like this.

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Offline Action80

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Re: President Joe Biden
« Reply #536 on: December 19, 2021, 08:42:15 PM »
The bottom line:

Everyone will catch this "virus."

The people needing hospital treatment and/or dying from this "virus" are due to die in a short time anyway, due to the actual cause of their death, either just being old or the comorbidity causing their death.

Specifically define a "short time".

Causes of death and comorbidities in hospitalized patients with COVID-19

"We found that septic shock and multi organ failure was the most common immediate cause of death, often due to suppurative pulmonary infection....Several comorbidities, such as hypertension, ischemic heart disease, and obesity were present in the vast majority of patients. Our findings reveal that causes of death were directly related to COVID-19 in the majority of decedents, while they appear not to be an immediate result of preexisting health conditions and comorbidities."

So people without Covid yet with some comorbidities would die of Septic shock and multi organ failure in a "short time anyway"? I'm surprised people en masse aren't falling over dead left, right, and center even in non-pandemic times.
Wait, aren't you one of the voices crying out:

EXPLAIN THE EXCESS DEATHS!?!? (i.e., people dying en masse)

Seems you're trying to have it both ways.

You're trolling is once exposed as weak and ineffective.

Go lay down in the corner somewhere.
It's so hard to have faith in humanity when they do shit like this.

"I hate the police so I'm gonna burn a Walgreen's!"

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Offline stack

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Re: President Joe Biden
« Reply #537 on: December 19, 2021, 09:09:04 PM »
The bottom line:

Everyone will catch this "virus."

The people needing hospital treatment and/or dying from this "virus" are due to die in a short time anyway, due to the actual cause of their death, either just being old or the comorbidity causing their death.

Specifically define a "short time".

Causes of death and comorbidities in hospitalized patients with COVID-19

"We found that septic shock and multi organ failure was the most common immediate cause of death, often due to suppurative pulmonary infection....Several comorbidities, such as hypertension, ischemic heart disease, and obesity were present in the vast majority of patients. Our findings reveal that causes of death were directly related to COVID-19 in the majority of decedents, while they appear not to be an immediate result of preexisting health conditions and comorbidities."

So people without Covid yet with some comorbidities would die of Septic shock and multi organ failure in a "short time anyway"? I'm surprised people en masse aren't falling over dead left, right, and center even in non-pandemic times.
Wait, aren't you one of the voices crying out:

EXPLAIN THE EXCESS DEATHS!?!? (i.e., people dying en masse)

Seems you're trying to have it both ways.

You're trolling is once exposed as weak and ineffective.

Go lay down in the corner somewhere.

I don't even know what you're going on about or what connection you're trying to make. In any case, you're not making any sense.

You can't seem to define what a "short time" is whilst claiming anyone with a comorbidity is going to die soon anyways. A truly bizarre argument. Additionally, it appears people with covid and comorbidities (or not) seem to succumb to septic shock and multiple organ failure. I guess, according to you, since these folks are going to die soon anyway, what's all the bother about. Pretty heartless, even for you.

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Offline Rama Set

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Re: President Joe Biden
« Reply #538 on: December 19, 2021, 09:20:28 PM »
This is what confuses me. He seems to arguing that medicine is a waste of time, which seems particularly stupid.
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Offline Roundy

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Re: President Joe Biden
« Reply #539 on: December 19, 2021, 10:37:32 PM »
This is what confuses me. He seems to arguing that medicine is a waste of time, which seems particularly stupid.

Yeah, it's been his go-to argument against COVID regulations for a while now, people die anyway so why try to save them. Maybe being terminally ill has skewed his perspective or something.  :(
Dr. Frank is a physicist. He says it's impossible. So it's impossible.
My friends, please remember Tom said this the next time you fall into the trap of engaging him, and thank you. :)