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Offline rabinoz

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ROFLMAO! It amuses me so that they are "composites" while we have highly advanced telescopes like the "Hubble" and gigapixel cameras while all NASA can get are stupid photoshop composites -- WITH MIND YOU TENS OF BILLIONS of taxpayers money-- while they try to explain EVERYTHING suspicious away with technical nerdy shit, and all you Round Earthers are buying every bit of it.
When I first read this I didn't really hit me what idiotic stuff you come out with.
The altitude of the Hubble is about 559 km and the Earth's diameter is about 12,742 km.
Now the "the Wide Field Channel on the Advanced Camera for Surveys on the Hubble Space Telescope has a field of view of 10 sq. arc-minutes" (from Wikipedia).

The Hubble Telescope would be completely useless for taking photos of the Earth, and only someone with absolutely no knowledge of such things could ever even consider it.
Or maybe just someone who starts typing garbage before engaging brain?

A non-composite photo of the earth needs to be taken with a very wide angle lens (fisheye and don't we just love them!) or from a long distance away, say from a geostationary satellite like this:


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Offline rabinoz

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I have been wondering what on earth all this composite photo stuff had to with the OP?

Then I realised that you found that the question
"So apparently, the flat earth model for this flight path does not add up as well as the globe one. Can anyone elaborate as to why?"
only had one logical answer The Flat Earth model is simply flat wrong.

So you had to take another tack to discredit the Globe Earth!

But, the Globe does not need satellite photos to prove it. The measurements taken by surveyors over the past few centuries (apart from lots of other bits and pieces) prove that the earth does not fit on a flat surface.
For one thing the circumference of the earth at say 30° south of the equator is quite a lot less than the circumference of the earth at the equator.
Try fitting that with in the North Polar Equidistant Azimuthal map.
Also explains these Southern Hemisphere flights.

Debunked by the fact that it DOESNT even make a mark on the moon, along with many other technical faults.  You guys do not even believe your eyes and are blinded by your indoctrination in school.
You're making it seem like we haven't explained it a billion times already, duh we probably did it just 100 million times.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moon_landing_conspiracy_theories#Mechanical_issues

Of all the explanation we give to the Moon landing conspiracists' claim, i've never seen any of them refute our explanation.

That entire wikipedia article is written as apologetic propoganda. Nothing more, nothing less. I read it and was astounded by the obvious bias and lack of any factual evidence to back up the refutations.

If something as obviously faked as the moon landing is impossible to make you guys even consider a possibility, than it really is a waste of time discussing flat earths and other stuff with your little av club's worth of posters.

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Offline BlueMoon

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Debunked by the fact that it DOESNT even make a mark on the moon, along with many other technical faults.  You guys do not even believe your eyes and are blinded by your indoctrination in school.
You're making it seem like we haven't explained it a billion times already, duh we probably did it just 100 million times.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moon_landing_conspiracy_theories#Mechanical_issues

Of all the explanation we give to the Moon landing conspiracists' claim, i've never seen any of them refute our explanation.

That entire wikipedia article is written as apologetic propoganda. Nothing more, nothing less. I read it and was astounded by the obvious bias and lack of any factual evidence to back up the refutations.

If something as obviously faked as the moon landing is impossible to make you guys even consider a possibility, than it really is a waste of time discussing flat earths and other stuff with your little av club's worth of posters.
No, the Wikipedia explanations are valid and factual.  You only feel like they're biased against you because they prove you wrong. 


The blast crater has been analyzed before, along with any other "evidence" you think you have. 
Aerospace Engineering Student
NASA Enthusiast
Round Earth Advocate
More qualified to speak for NASA than you are to speak against them

That entire wikipedia article is written as apologetic propoganda. Nothing more, nothing less. I read it and was astounded by the obvious bias and lack of any factual evidence to back up the refutations.

What do you mean no factual evidence? The explanation for the lack of a crater includes the actual technical and physical explanation with numbers on the force of thrust. The assumption that there should be a crater has no factual evidence to back it up either. Why would the standard to refute something be higher than the standard to claim it in the first place? If anything, refuting a claim should be easier, not harder.

Is there any factual evidence at all for a "moon hoax"? Not just calling the official story into question, but actual positive evidence (documents, witness accounts, technical documents, calculations) directly supporting a conspiracy?

No, the Wikipedia explanations are valid and factual.  You only feel like they're biased against you because they prove you wrong. 


The blast crater has been analyzed before, along with any other "evidence" you think you have.

Do you really think I give a fuck if I'm proven wrong by a bunch of fanboys on the internet? Do you think I want to be right? What do I have to gain from being lied to by my own government? You have a lot more to lose if you're wrong, because the entire sci-fi fantasy world you and websites like the one you linked have committed their insignificant lives to would collapse.


Quote from: Ecthelion
Is there any factual evidence at all for a "moon hoax"? Not just calling the official story into question, but actual positive evidence (documents, witness accounts, technical documents, calculations) directly supporting a conspiracy?
Sure, if you actually would look you'd find plenty. That's your prerogative, not mine. But if you're so thoroughly brain washed you can't even see the obvious bias of that wikipedia article then I don't see you getting anywhere with your research.

Anyway, once everyone is gone, except you lot of rocket scientist psychology/philosophy majors, I hope you are satisfied that you've been able to successfully stifle any kind of progress and have managed to avoid having an actual honest conversation. Then you can high five each other for having silenced any dissenting opinion that doesn't confirm what you already believe to be true.

Have fun with that, or if you want to jump to that point, feel free to take your conversations to the hundreds of space travel, nerdy, nasa enthusiasts forums where your fragile need to believe can be safe with the flock of conformists that surround you.

No, the Wikipedia explanations are valid and factual.  You only feel like they're biased against you because they prove you wrong. 


The blast crater has been analyzed before, along with any other "evidence" you think you have.

Do you really think I give a fuck if I'm proven wrong by a bunch of fanboys on the internet? Do you think I want to be right? What do I have to gain from being lied to by my own government? You have a lot more to lose if you're wrong, because the entire sci-fi fantasy world you and websites like the one you linked have committed their insignificant lives to would collapse.


Quote from: Ecthelion
Is there any factual evidence at all for a "moon hoax"? Not just calling the official story into question, but actual positive evidence (documents, witness accounts, technical documents, calculations) directly supporting a conspiracy?
Sure, if you actually would look you'd find plenty. That's your prerogative, not mine. But if you're so thoroughly brain washed you can't even see the obvious bias of that wikipedia article then I don't see you getting anywhere with your research.

Anyway, once everyone is gone, except you lot of rocket scientist psychology/philosophy majors, I hope you are satisfied that you've been able to successfully stifle any kind of progress and have managed to avoid having an actual honest conversation. Then you can high five each other for having silenced any dissenting opinion that doesn't confirm what you already believe to be true.

Have fun with that, or if you want to jump to that point, feel free to take your conversations to the hundreds of space travel, nerdy, nasa enthusiasts forums where your fragile need to believe can be safe with the flock of conformists that surround you.

Conformists? Oh, you're so special and unique, the envy I feel.

It's funny being told that we're standing in the way of progress by a religious man. Even more so that this individual just happens to be a creationist, a religion clinging to whatever little hope there might be left for a God to exist, by adjusting all the fundamentals of said religion for it to be remotely digestible in this global information society.

I actually kind of feel sorry for you, it's obvious that you invest a lot of time and thought into participating here all for nothing on a foundation of bogus. So much for free thinking.
Ignored by Intikam since 2016.

Sure, if you actually would look you'd find plenty. That's your prerogative, not mine. But if you're so thoroughly brain washed you can't even see the obvious bias of that wikipedia article then I don't see you getting anywhere with your research.

But you're not going to tell me. Isn't that a game that children play?

Anyway, once everyone is gone, except you lot of rocket scientist psychology/philosophy majors, I hope you are satisfied that you've been able to successfully stifle any kind of progress and have managed to avoid having an actual honest conversation. Then you can high five each other for having silenced any dissenting opinion that doesn't confirm what you already believe to be true.

Have fun with that, or if you want to jump to that point, feel free to take your conversations to the hundreds of space travel, nerdy, nasa enthusiasts forums where your fragile need to believe can be safe with the flock of conformists that surround you.

I find it interesting that asking questions and trying to explain things means one is a conformists and of feeble mind, while evading questions and not deigning to engage with the poor ignorant fools makes one a strong, free thinker. Why is it that it's the conformists who are actively arguing, explaining and above all questioning what they are being told when it would be so easy to just appeal to authority? Why is it that the people styling themselves "free thinkers" ignore questions, don't explain their model and consider arguing for their theories beneath their dignity? It really is a weird world where the indoctrinated sheeple are doing most of the questioning, arguing and explaining.

Conformists? Oh, you're so special and unique, the envy I feel.

It's funny being told that we're standing in the way of progress by a religious man. Even more so that this individual just happens to be a creationist, a religion clinging to whatever little hope there might be left for a God to exist, by adjusting all the fundamentals of said religion for it to be remotely digestible in this global information society.

I actually kind of feel sorry for you, it's obvious that you invest a lot of time and thought into participating here all for nothing on a foundation of bogus. So much for free thinking.

Funny how you follow me around every thread I'm in to mention how I'm a creationist. Meanwhile, I know nothing about you, and I don't care to know anymore about you. But let me try to take a stab at who Andy is.

Based on your vehement denial of God, I'd venture to imagine that you grew up in a very religious family, in a very religious town. I guess the cool, rebellious thing for you to do was to deny it, to be the black sheep non-conformist of the family. You've staked your identity in being different in that regard. But here you are, believing in shit that is just as unproven as you believe God to be, you know, the big bang, the primordial ooze origin of life. Being an atheist is just so core to who you are you couldn't possibly fathom those hypothesis being entirely rooted in fantasy. It would devastate your worldview to accept the possibility of an intelligent creator, so you'd rather continue believing, against all logic and reason, in the incredibly, unbelievably, astronomical probabilities that life is the result of a cosmic accident.

Ecthelion, you aren't even worth the time to respond to. Your short time here has already shown me that you are just another egotistical asshole with an over-inflated sense of intelligence (you actually said you have a "theory of knowledge," lol) who really has no aversion to endless cycles of circle logic.

I take it you're referring to me as Andy? Based on your analysis, it's hard to tell.
Ignored by Intikam since 2016.

But no, not even close. And I don't like the way people have a need to put others in a box with a label. It's not that I'm the militant atheist you want me to be. There's a few religious world views I can actually see a few good things in. It's that creationism is SO fucking stupid, it's hard for me to grasp that seemingly intelligent, eloquent people like yourself actually choose to be creationists in the vast sea of spiritual options. To me, creationism is at the level of scientology and flying spaghetti monster, one of those even being a deliberate joke.
Ignored by Intikam since 2016.

But no, not even close. And I don't like the way people have a need to put others in a box with a label. It's not that I'm the militant atheist you want me to be. There's a few religious world views I can actually see a few good things in. It's that creationism is SO fucking stupid, it's hard for me to grasp that seemingly intelligent, eloquent people like yourself actually choose to be creationists in the vast sea of spiritual options. To me, creationism is at the level of scientology and flying spaghetti monster, one of those even being a deliberate joke.

To me that is very ironic, because you have continuously labeled me a creationist even when it isn't relevant to the topic at hand at all.

You have to understand, to me, accidental origin of life sounds just as stupid to me as you apparently believe creationism to be. Seemingly logical, realistic people somehow decide to suspend their disbelief when they chose the big bang and evolution against all logic and evidence.

And I really don't understand your implication that creationism is exclusive to any particular religion. As far as I know, the story of creation by an intelligent creator is pretty universal to them all. That being said, my world view is shaped by study of many different schools of belief. I'm not a Christian, a Catholic, a Buddhist or anything, I prefer to find the similarities intrinsic to them all, and make a rational differentiation between what is dogmatic and what is the beneficial message. My eclectic view isn't the result of ignorance, so using my belief in a creator as a way to slander my contributions in non-related topics as you have on many occasions has kind of rubbed me the wrong way. It's a tactic used by people who's only response to sound logic is to discredit the person behind it. Don't get me wrong, I have even stooped to insults as well, and even called people nerds on here, but only after much castigation. No one's perfect, religion teaches that it is a constant daily battle against your own egotistical nature to overcome your undesirable traits and become your higher self. Does science teach anyone about stuff like that?

Well,  science doesn't patent it. It's a part of being human, religion can take no credit for that.
Ignored by Intikam since 2016.

You have to understand, to me, accidental origin of life sounds just as stupid to me as you apparently believe creationism to be. Seemingly logical, realistic people somehow decide to suspend their disbelief when they chose the big bang and evolution against all logic and evidence.

What logic and what evidence? There is no evidence for an intelligent creator because logically, there cannot be. Science only finds explanations that involve the physical, a metaphysical being cannot be discovered by science. And the only logical argument against abiogenesis and evolution is that it's "too unlikely", that is to say the chances are too low. But statistical analysis like that depends on you knowing your sample size, and we don't. We have no idea how many tries it might have taken.

It's a bit like the doomsday argument: Statistically, it is most likely that we are somehow in the middle of all humans that will ever have lived. So, we should conclude that humans will go extinct after about twice the time they have already existed on earth. Statistically, it is infintessimaly unlikely that humans will go on surviving for millions of years, yet when looking at current technology that seems very possible. Everyone realizes the doomsday argument makes no sense, but statistically it is sound. It is like trying to find out the chances to win the lottery by only looking at people who have won the lottery.

Offline UnionsOfSolarSystemPlanet

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That entire wikipedia article is written as apologetic propoganda. Nothing more, nothing less. I read it and was astounded by the obvious bias and lack of any factual evidence to back up the refutations.

If something as obviously faked as the moon landing is impossible to make you guys even consider a possibility, than it really is a waste of time discussing flat earths and other stuff with your little av club's worth of posters.
You said you don't want to prove anything to any of us here, then don't try to undermine us by doing an ad hominem attack.

You have to understand, to me, accidental origin of life sounds just as stupid to me as you apparently believe creationism to be. Seemingly logical, realistic people somehow decide to suspend their disbelief when they chose the big bang and evolution against all logic and evidence.
Then tell me this, would it be logical to say God made the big bang and evolution to be all of this?
The size of the Solar system if the Moon were only 1 pixel:
http://joshworth.com/dev/pixelspace/pixelspace_solarsystem.html

That entire wikipedia article is written as apologetic propoganda. Nothing more, nothing less. I read it and was astounded by the obvious bias and lack of any factual evidence to back up the refutations.

If something as obviously faked as the moon landing is impossible to make you guys even consider a possibility, than it really is a waste of time discussing flat earths and other stuff with your little av club's worth of posters.
You said you don't want to prove anything to any of us here, then don't try to undermine us by doing an ad hominem attack.

You have to understand, to me, accidental origin of life sounds just as stupid to me as you apparently believe creationism to be. Seemingly logical, realistic people somehow decide to suspend their disbelief when they chose the big bang and evolution against all logic and evidence.
Then tell me this, would it be logical to say God made the big bang and evolution to be all of this?

Big bang doesn't and evolution still don't add up. How exactly life manifested and our world created is a mystery. But evolution as an origin of life and big bang as cosmogony is clearly not the answer. We could through sound science and evidence one day understand, but as of now we are practically in a dark age for reason and logic in our study of the universe. It is a monstrous structure built upon a flimsy, creaky foundation.

Offline UnionsOfSolarSystemPlanet

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Big bang doesn't and evolution still don't add up. How exactly life manifested and our world created is a mystery. But evolution as an origin of life and big bang as cosmogony is clearly not the answer. We could through sound science and evidence one day understand, but as of now we are practically in a dark age for reason and logic in our study of the universe. It is a monstrous structure built upon a flimsy, creaky foundation.
If i was a creationist that believe the big bang and evolution, i would say "Why would it makes sense? Our tiny human mind cannot comprehend the ways of God creating our world through the big bang and evolution."

Not going to correct what you said in scientific ways, you never try to refute it anyway, just doing insults, logical fallacies or ask more question.
The size of the Solar system if the Moon were only 1 pixel:
http://joshworth.com/dev/pixelspace/pixelspace_solarsystem.html

Big bang doesn't and evolution still don't add up. How exactly life manifested and our world created is a mystery. But evolution as an origin of life and big bang as cosmogony is clearly not the answer. We could through sound science and evidence one day understand, but as of now we are practically in a dark age for reason and logic in our study of the universe. It is a monstrous structure built upon a flimsy, creaky foundation.
If i was a creationist that believe the big bang and evolution, i would say "Why would it makes sense? Our tiny human mind cannot comprehend the ways of God creating our world through the big bang and evolution."

Not going to correct what you said in scientific ways, you never try to refute it anyway, just doing insults, logical fallacies or ask more question.

How could you correct my opinion? I don't have any questions for you either. I honestly don't see you or anyone else here in particular as an authority, even if your ego leads you to believe otherwise.

There is no evidence for an intelligent creator because logically, there cannot be. Science only finds explanations that involve the physical, a metaphysical being cannot be discovered by science.

The scientific explanations exclude any kind of evolution theory.


'Robert Wesson (Beyond Natural Selection): "By Mayr's calculation, in a rapidly evolving line an organ may enlarge about 1 to 10 percent per million years, but organs of the whale-in-becoming must have grown ten times more rapidly over 10 million years. Perhaps 300 generations are required for a gene substitution. Moreover, mutations need to occur many times, even with considerable advantage, in order to have a good chance of becoming fixed.
Considering the length of whale generations, the rarity with which the needed mutations are likely to appear, and the multitude of mutations needed to convert a land mammal into a whale, it is easy to conclude that gradualist natural selection of random variations cannot account for this animal" (p. 52). Wesson’s book is a catalogue of biological improbabilities—-from bats' hypersophisticated echolocation system to the electric organs of fish—and of the gaping holes in the fossil record.

"By what devices the genes direct the formation of patterns of neurons that constitute innate behavioral patterns is entirely enigmatic. Yet not only do animals respond appropriately to manifold needs; they often do so in ways that would seem to require something like forethought" (p. 68). R. Wesson adds: "An instinct of any complexity, linking a sequence of perceptions and actions, must involve a very large number of connections within the brain or principal ganglia of the animal. If it is comparable to a computer program, it must have the equivalent of thousands of lines. In such a program, not merely would chance of improvement by accidental change be tiny at best. It is problematic how the program can be maintained without degradation over a long period despite the occurrence from time to time of errors by replication" (p. 81).


Antoine Tremolilre (La vie plus tetue que les etoiles): "We know that more than 90% of the changes affecting a letter in a word of the genetic message lead to disastrous results; proteins are no longer synthesized correctly, the message loses its entire meaning and this leads purely and simply to the cell’s death. Given that mutations are so frequently highly unfavourable, and even deadly, how can beneficial evolution be attained?" (p. 43).


M. Frank-Kamenetskii (Unraveling DNA): "It is clear, therefore, that you need a drastic refitting of the whole of your machine to make the car into a plane. The same is true for a protein. In trying to turn one enzyme into another, point mutations alone would not do the trick. What you need is a substantial change in the amino acid sequence. In this situation, rather than being helpful, selection is a major hindrance. One could think, for instance, that by consistently changing amino acids one by one, it will eventually prove possible to change the entire sequence substantially and thus the enzyme's spatial structure. These minor changes, however, are bound to result eventually in a situation in which the enzyme has ceased to perform its previous function but it has not yet begun its 'new duties.' It is at this point that it will be destroyed—together with the organism carrying it" (p. 76).

In the early 1980s, researchers discovered that certain RNA molecules, called "ribozymes,"
could cut themselves up and stick themselves back together again, acting as their own
catalysts. This led to the following speculation: If RNA is also an enzyme, it could perhaps
replicate itself without the help of proteins. Scientists went on to formulate the theory of the "RNA world," according to which the first organisms were RNA molecules that learned to synthesize proteins, facilitating their replication, and that surrounded themselves with lipids to form a cellular membrane; these RNA-based organisms then evolved into organisms with a genetic memory made of DNA, which is more stable chemically. However, this theory is not only irrefutable, it leaves many questions unsolved. Thus, to make RNA, one must have nucleotides, and for the moment, no one has ever seen nucleotides take shape by chance and line up to form RNA. As microbiologist JamesShapiro writes, the "experiments conducted up until now have shown no tendency for a plausible prebiotic soup to build bricks of RNA. One would have liked to discover ribozymes capable of doing so, but this has not been the case. And even if one were to discover any, this would still not resolve the fundamental question: where did the first RNA molecule come from?". He adds: "After ten years of relentless research, the most common and remarkable property of ribozymes has been found to be the capacity to demolish other molecules of nucleic acid. It is difficult to imagine a less adapted activity than that in a prebiotic soup where the first colony of RNA would have had to struggle to make their home".


The contents of this famous soup are problematic. In 1952. Stanley Miller and Harold Urey
did an experiment that was to become famous; they bombarded a test tube containing water, hydrogen, ammonia, and methane with electricity, supposedly imitating the atmosphere of the primitive earth with its permanent lightning storms; after a week, they had produced 2 of the 20 amino acids that nature uses in the construction of proteins. This experiment was long cited as proof that life could emerge from an inorganic soup. However, in the 1980s, geologists realized that an atmosphere of methane and ammoniac would rapidly have been destroyed by sunlight and that our planet’s primitive atmosphere most probably contained nitrogen, carbon dioxide, water vapor, and traces of hydrogen. When one bombards the latter with electricity, one does not obtain biomolecules. So the prebiotic soup is increasingly considered to be a "myth".

Microbiologist James Shapiro writes: "In fact, there are no detailed Darwinian accounts for the evolution of any fundamental biochemical or cellular system, only a variety of wishful speculations. It is remarkable that Darwinism is accepted as a satisfactory explanation for such a vast subject—evolution—with so little rigorous examination of how well its basic theses work in illuminating specific instances of biological adaptation or diversity."

During the 1980s, it became possible to determine the exact sequence of amino acids in given proteins. This revealed a new level of complexity in living beings. A single nicotinic receptor, forming a highly specific lock coupled to an equally selective channel, is made of five
juxtaposed protein chains that contain a total of 2,500 amino acids lined up in the right order. Despite the improbability of the chance emergence of such a structure, even nematodes, which are among the most simple multicellular invertebrates, have nicotinic receptors.
Confronted by this kind of complexity, some researchers no longer content themselves with the usual explanation. Robert Wesson writes in his book Beyond natural selection: "No simple theory can cope with the enormous complexity revealed by modern genetics."
Other researchers have pointed out the improbability of the mechanism that is supposed to be the source of variation — namely, the accumulation of errors in the genetic text. It seems
obvious that "a message would quickly lose all meaning if its contents changed continuously in an anarchic fashion." How, then, could such a process lead to the prodigies of the natural
world, of which we are a part?


Another fundamental problem contradicts the theory of chance-driven natural selection.
According to the theory, species should evolve slowly and gradually, since evolution is caused by the accumulation and selection of random errors in the genetic text. However, the fossil record reveals a completely different scenario. J. Madeleine Nash writes in her review of recent research in paleontology: "Until about 600 million years ago, there were no organisms more complex than bacteria, multicelled algae and single-celled plankton.... Then, 543 million years ago, in the early Cambrian, within the span of no more than 10 million years, creatures with teeth and tentacles and claws and jaws materialized with the suddenness of apparitions. In a burst of creativity like nothing before or since, nature appears to have sketched out the blueprints for virtually the whole of the animal kingdom.
Since 1987, discoveries of major fossil beds in Greenland, in China, in Siberia, and now in Namibia have shown that the period of biological innovation occurred at virtually the same instant in geological time all around the world.
Throughout the fossil record, species seem to appear suddenly, fully formed and equipped with all sorts of specialized organs, then remain stable for millions of years. For instance, there is no intermediate form between the terrestrial ancestor of the whale and the first fossils of this marine mammal. Like their current descendants, the latter have nostrils situated atop their heads, a modified respiratory system, new organs like a dorsal fin, and nipples surrounded by a cap to keep out seawater and equipped with a pump for underwater suckling. The whale represents the rule, rather than the exception. According to biologist Ernst Mayr, an authority on the matter of evolution, there is "no clear evidence for any change of a species into a different genus or for the gradual origin of an evolutionary novelty."


In the middle of the 1990s, biologists sequenced the first complete genomes of free-living
organisms. So far, the smallest known bacterial genome contains 580,000 DNA letters. This
is an enormous amount of information, comparable to the contents of a small telephone
directory. When one considers that bacteria are the smallest units of life as we know it, it
becomes even more difficult to understand how the first bacterium could have taken form
spontaneously in a lifeless, chemical soup. How can a small telephone directory of information
emerge from random processes?
The genomes of more complex organisms are even more daunting in size. Baker’s yeast is a
unicellular organism that contains 12 million DNA letters; the genome of nematodes, which are rather simple multicellular organisms, contains 100 million DNA letters. Mouse genomes, like human genomes, contain approximately 3 billion DNA letters.'

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Offline rabinoz

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There is no evidence for an intelligent creator because logically, there cannot be. Science only finds explanations that involve the physical, a metaphysical being cannot be discovered by science.
The scientific explanations exclude any kind of evolution theory.
'Robert Wesson (Beyond Natural Selection): "By Mayr's calculation, in a rapidly evolving line an organ may enlarge about 1 to 10 percent per million years, but organs of the whale-in-becoming must have grown ten times more rapidly over 10 million years. Perhaps 300 generations are required for a gene substitution. Moreover, mutations need to occur many times, even with considerable advantage, in order to have a good chance of becoming fixed.
Considering the length of whale generations, the rarity with which the needed mutations are likely to appear, and the multitude of mutations needed to convert a land mammal into a whale, it is easy to conclude that gradualist natural selection of random variations cannot account for this animal" (p. 52). Wesson’s book is a catalogue of biological improbabilities—-from bats' hypersophisticated echolocation system to the electric organs of fish—and of the gaping holes in the fossil record.
"By what devices the genes direct the formation of patterns of neurons that constitute innate behavioral patterns is entirely enigmatic. Yet not only do animals respond appropriately to manifold needs; they often do so in ways that would seem to require something like forethought" (p. 68). R. Wesson adds: "An instinct of any complexity, linking a sequence of perceptions and actions, must involve a very large number of connections within the brain or principal ganglia of the animal. If it is comparable to a computer program, it must have the equivalent of thousands of lines. In such a program, not merely would chance of improvement by accidental change be tiny at best. It is problematic how the program can be maintained without degradation over a long period despite the occurrence from time to time of errors by replication" (p. 81).
Antoine Tremolilre (La vie plus tetue que les etoiles): "We know that more than 90% of the changes affecting a letter in a word of the genetic message lead to disastrous results; proteins are no longer synthesized correctly, the message loses its entire meaning and this leads purely and simply to the cell’s death. Given that mutations are so frequently highly unfavourable, and even deadly, how can beneficial evolution be attained?" (p. 43).
M. Frank-Kamenetskii (Unraveling DNA): "It is clear, therefore, that you need a drastic refitting of the whole of your machine to make the car into a plane. The same is true for a protein. In trying to turn one enzyme into another, point mutations alone would not do the trick. What you need is a substantial change in the amino acid sequence. In this situation, rather than being helpful, selection is a major hindrance. One could think, for instance, that by consistently changing amino acids one by one, it will eventually prove possible to change the entire sequence substantially and thus the enzyme's spatial structure. These minor changes, however, are bound to result eventually in a situation in which the enzyme has ceased to perform its previous function but it has not yet begun its 'new duties.' It is at this point that it will be destroyed—together with the organism carrying it" (p. 76).
In the early 1980s, researchers discovered that certain RNA molecules, called "ribozymes,"
could cut themselves up and stick themselves back together again, acting as their own
catalysts. This led to the following speculation: If RNA is also an enzyme, it could perhaps
replicate itself without the help of proteins. Scientists went on to formulate the theory of the "RNA world," according to which the first organisms were RNA molecules that learned to synthesize proteins, facilitating their replication, and that surrounded themselves with lipids to form a cellular membrane; these RNA-based organisms then evolved into organisms with a genetic memory made of DNA, which is more stable chemically. However, this theory is not only irrefutable, it leaves many questions unsolved. Thus, to make RNA, one must have nucleotides, and for the moment, no one has ever seen nucleotides take shape by chance and line up to form RNA. As microbiologist JamesShapiro writes, the "experiments conducted up until now have shown no tendency for a plausible prebiotic soup to build bricks of RNA. One would have liked to discover ribozymes capable of doing so, but this has not been the case. And even if one were to discover any, this would still not resolve the fundamental question: where did the first RNA molecule come from?". He adds: "After ten years of relentless research, the most common and remarkable property of ribozymes has been found to be the capacity to demolish other molecules of nucleic acid. It is difficult to imagine a less adapted activity than that in a prebiotic soup where the first colony of RNA would have had to struggle to make their home".
The contents of this famous soup are problematic. In 1952. Stanley Miller and Harold Urey
did an experiment that was to become famous; they bombarded a test tube containing water, hydrogen, ammonia, and methane with electricity, supposedly imitating the atmosphere of the primitive earth with its permanent lightning storms; after a week, they had produced 2 of the 20 amino acids that nature uses in the construction of proteins. This experiment was long cited as proof that life could emerge from an inorganic soup. However, in the 1980s, geologists realized that an atmosphere of methane and ammoniac would rapidly have been destroyed by sunlight and that our planet’s primitive atmosphere most probably contained nitrogen, carbon dioxide, water vapor, and traces of hydrogen. When one bombards the latter with electricity, one does not obtain biomolecules. So the prebiotic soup is increasingly considered to be a "myth".
Microbiologist James Shapiro writes: "In fact, there are no detailed Darwinian accounts for the evolution of any fundamental biochemical or cellular system, only a variety of wishful speculations. It is remarkable that Darwinism is accepted as a satisfactory explanation for such a vast subject—evolution—with so little rigorous examination of how well its basic theses work in illuminating specific instances of biological adaptation or diversity."
During the 1980s, it became possible to determine the exact sequence of amino acids in given proteins. This revealed a new level of complexity in living beings. A single nicotinic receptor, forming a highly specific lock coupled to an equally selective channel, is made of five
juxtaposed protein chains that contain a total of 2,500 amino acids lined up in the right order. Despite the improbability of the chance emergence of such a structure, even nematodes, which are among the most simple multicellular invertebrates, have nicotinic receptors.
Confronted by this kind of complexity, some researchers no longer content themselves with the usual explanation. Robert Wesson writes in his book Beyond natural selection: "No simple theory can cope with the enormous complexity revealed by modern genetics."
Other researchers have pointed out the improbability of the mechanism that is supposed to be the source of variation — namely, the accumulation of errors in the genetic text. It seems
obvious that "a message would quickly lose all meaning if its contents changed continuously in an anarchic fashion." How, then, could such a process lead to the prodigies of the natural
world, of which we are a part?
Another fundamental problem contradicts the theory of chance-driven natural selection.
According to the theory, species should evolve slowly and gradually, since evolution is caused by the accumulation and selection of random errors in the genetic text. However, the fossil record reveals a completely different scenario. J. Madeleine Nash writes in her review of recent research in paleontology: "Until about 600 million years ago, there were no organisms more complex than bacteria, multicelled algae and single-celled plankton.... Then, 543 million years ago, in the early Cambrian, within the span of no more than 10 million years, creatures with teeth and tentacles and claws and jaws materialized with the suddenness of apparitions. In a burst of creativity like nothing before or since, nature appears to have sketched out the blueprints for virtually the whole of the animal kingdom.
Since 1987, discoveries of major fossil beds in Greenland, in China, in Siberia, and now in Namibia have shown that the period of biological innovation occurred at virtually the same instant in geological time all around the world.
Throughout the fossil record, species seem to appear suddenly, fully formed and equipped with all sorts of specialized organs, then remain stable for millions of years. For instance, there is no intermediate form between the terrestrial ancestor of the whale and the first fossils of this marine mammal. Like their current descendants, the latter have nostrils situated atop their heads, a modified respiratory system, new organs like a dorsal fin, and nipples surrounded by a cap to keep out seawater and equipped with a pump for underwater suckling. The whale represents the rule, rather than the exception. According to biologist Ernst Mayr, an authority on the matter of evolution, there is "no clear evidence for any change of a species into a different genus or for the gradual origin of an evolutionary novelty."
In the middle of the 1990s, biologists sequenced the first complete genomes of free-living
organisms. So far, the smallest known bacterial genome contains 580,000 DNA letters. This
is an enormous amount of information, comparable to the contents of a small telephone
directory. When one considers that bacteria are the smallest units of life as we know it, it
becomes even more difficult to understand how the first bacterium could have taken form
spontaneously in a lifeless, chemical soup. How can a small telephone directory of information
emerge from random processes?
The genomes of more complex organisms are even more daunting in size. Baker’s yeast is a
unicellular organism that contains 12 million DNA letters; the genome of nematodes, which are rather simple multicellular organisms, contains 100 million DNA letters. Mouse genomes, like human genomes, contain approximately 3 billion DNA letters.'
What on earth has any of this treatise got to do with the topic: "My Flight Path Experiment Findings on the Flat VS Globe Earth. Explain Why?"
I just suppose you thought us poor ignorant people needed that information. Why don't you make a thread of you own. You could call it:
The Irrelevant Ramblings of Sandokhan!