[Pete Svarrior]

That seems like an unfair comparison. Hmm, unless. Did Boris Johnson publicly fan the flames of civil unrest prior to your hypothetical visit?

I'd argue that he did. Without veering too far from the topic of another person with fantastic yellow hair, BoJo is pretty well known for his ethnically insensitive comments. My favourite one was when he said women in burqas look like mailboxes.

Nonetheless, people are responsible for their own actions first and foremost. Secondly, if I wanted to get back at BoJo, I still wouldn't be setting fire to Tumeni's house. He's largely an unrelated party in this, so that would be dumb.

Let's be clear about this: if Tumeni's house turns out to be on fire in the near future (which is of course very unlikely) it has nothing to do with me disliking BoJo.

[Roundy]

That seems like an unfair comparison. Hmm, unless. Did Boris Johnson publicly fan the flames of civil unrest prior to your hypothetical visit?

I'd argue that he did. Without veering too far from the topic of another person with fantastic yellow hair, BoJo is pretty well known for his ethnically insensitive comments. My favourite one was when he said women in burqas look like mailboxes.

Nonetheless, people are responsible for their own actions first and foremost. Secondly, if I wanted to get back at BoJo, I still wouldn't be setting fire to Tumeni's house. He's largely an unrelated party in this, so that would be dumb.

Let's be clear about this: if Tumeni's house turns out to be on fire in the near future (which is of course very unlikely) it has nothing to do with me disliking BoJo.

Of course people are responsible for their own actions "first and foremost". That doesn't give our leaders carte blanche to do or say anything they want. They still need to be held accountable for what they do and say and the effect it might have. During difficult times we look to our leaders to help get us through. If those leaders are arguably only making things worse, you don't think they deserve any responsibility for that at all?

I don't think it's unreasonable for anyone to suggest that Trump deserves blame for what's happening right now. No, it doesn't mean the actions of the rioters are justified. But that doesn't mean that if Trump had perhaps tried to heal our country's wounds, rather than continuing to divide us into his camp or terrorists (this isn't even much of an exaggeration), maybe the rioting and looting wouldn't have been so bad. That's all I'm saying and I'm pretty sure it was what Tumeni was trying to get across too.

So, yes, if ol' Boris was throwing gasoline on the fire of racial injustice, and your burning Tumeni's house down was an expression of frustration over that situation, I would say Boris deserves some of the blame. It doesn't mean you're off the hook though so don't go getting any ideas.

[timterroo]

That seems like an unfair comparison. Hmm, unless. Did Boris Johnson publicly fan the flames of civil unrest prior to your hypothetical visit?

I'd argue that he did. Without veering too far from the topic of another person with fantastic yellow hair, BoJo is pretty well known for his ethnically insensitive comments. My favourite one was when he said women in burqas look like mailboxes.

Nonetheless, people are responsible for their own actions first and foremost. Secondly, if I wanted to get back at BoJo, I still wouldn't be setting fire to Tumeni's house. He's largely an unrelated party in this, so that would be dumb.

Let's be clear about this: if Tumeni's house turns out to be on fire in the near future (which is of course very unlikely) it has nothing to do with me disliking BoJo.

Of course people are responsible for their own actions "first and foremost". That doesn't give our leaders carte blanche to do or say anything they want. They still need to be held accountable for what they do and say and the effect it might have. During difficult times we look to our leaders to help get us through. If those leaders are arguably only making things worse, you don't think they deserve any responsibility for that at all?

I don't think it's unreasonable for anyone to suggest that Trump deserves blame for what's happening right now. No, it doesn't mean the actions of the rioters are justified. But that doesn't mean that if Trump had perhaps tried to heal our country's wounds, rather than continuing to divide us into his camp or terrorists (this isn't even much of an exaggeration), maybe the rioting and looting wouldn't have been so bad. That's all I'm saying and I'm pretty sure it was what Tumeni was trying to get across too.

So, yes, if ol' Boris was throwing gasoline on the fire of racial injustice, and your burning Tumeni's house down was an expression of frustration over that situation, I would say Boris deserves some of the blame. It doesn't mean you're off the hook though so don't go getting any ideas.

Trump doesn't deserve blame for what's happening right now - the only thing you can blame on Trump is his complete lack of compassion and willingness to unite the people, and instead actively divides the people. He's not even trying to hide it anymore...

[Roundy]

Trump doesn't deserve blame for what's happening right now - the only thing you can blame on Trump is his complete lack of compassion and willingness to unite the people, and instead actively divides the people. He's not even trying to hide it anymore...

So you agree that Trump is working to divide us at a time when it's important that we be united, but you don't think that his doing so is having any further negative effect on the rioting whatsoever?

It's a reasonable opinion, I guess, but I disagree. I think that at a sensitive time right now, if our leaders refuse to properly lead, then things getting worse can only be a foregone conclusion.

[timterroo]

Trump doesn't deserve blame for what's happening right now - the only thing you can blame on Trump is his complete lack of compassion and willingness to unite the people, and instead actively divides the people. He's not even trying to hide it anymore...

So you agree that Trump is working to divide us at a time when it's important that we be united, but you don't think that his doing so is having any further negative effect on the rioting whatsoever?

It's a reasonable opinion, I guess, but I disagree. I think that at a sensitive time right now, if our leaders refuse to properly lead, then things getting worse can only be a foregone conclusion.

I don't think it's having as much impact as you think - I'm not going to rule it out, as I've said, Trump is being deliberately divisive - he gets pleasure out of seeing people hate one another, it's scary and demented.

What I'm really trying to say is that a lot of the hate and violence that is coming out now is not to be blamed on Trump. It has been there for decades. Us white, privileged people have been made to think racism was snuffed out with the civil rights movement, and the 13th amendment, but the truth is slavery and racism was reformed into something else, but it was still slavery and racism.

Trump promotes it, touts it, lives and breathes it. Every day that goes on, he looks more and more like Hitler reincarnated. The American Stalin. A confederate, and a bigot. For all of these reasons, Trump is at fault for the result of anyone who buys into that, but I'm afraid most people who follow him were always there to follow him. Trump has not changed anyone's mind, he's just further confirmed and publicized the corruption and hatred that was already there.

When I say Trump isn't to blame, what I mean is that he hasn't created a 'secret army' of nazis right under our noses, the 'secret army' has always been there.

[Lord Dave]

The only blame you have is giving hate groups the empowerment to be public and open about it.  To do something more than just complain in chat rooms.

[timterroo]

The only blame you have is giving hate groups the empowerment to be public and open about it.  To do something more than just complain in chat rooms.

Surely you mean Trump, not me? I speak out against hate and violence. I don't empower hate groups to be public and open either - that is happening whether I complain about it here or not.

[Roundy]

Trump doesn't deserve blame for what's happening right now - the only thing you can blame on Trump is his complete lack of compassion and willingness to unite the people, and instead actively divides the people. He's not even trying to hide it anymore...

So you agree that Trump is working to divide us at a time when it's important that we be united, but you don't think that his doing so is having any further negative effect on the rioting whatsoever?

It's a reasonable opinion, I guess, but I disagree. I think that at a sensitive time right now, if our leaders refuse to properly lead, then things getting worse can only be a foregone conclusion.

I don't think it's having as much impact as you think - I'm not going to rule it out, as I've said, Trump is being deliberately divisive - he gets pleasure out of seeing people hate one another, it's scary and demented.

What I'm really trying to say is that a lot of the hate and violence that is coming out now is not to be blamed on Trump. It has been there for decades. Us white, privileged people have been made to think racism was snuffed out with the civil rights movement, and the 13th amendment, but the truth is slavery and racism was reformed into something else, but it was still slavery and racism.

Trump promotes it, touts it, lives and breathes it. Every day that goes on, he looks more and more like Hitler reincarnated. The American Stalin. A confederate, and a bigot. For all of these reasons, Trump is at fault for the result of anyone who buys into that, but I'm afraid most people who follow him were always there to follow him. Trump has not changed anyone's mind, he's just further confirmed and publicized the corruption and hatred that was already there.

When I say Trump isn't to blame, what I mean is that he hasn't created a 'secret army' of nazis right under our noses, the 'secret army' has always been there.

I mean of course. Trump didn't invent systemic racism, I think we all understand that. I still think his complete unwillingness to show empathy for what the people are protesting and his lack of effort to be conciliatory can only have exacerbated things.

[timterroo]

Trump doesn't deserve blame for what's happening right now - the only thing you can blame on Trump is his complete lack of compassion and willingness to unite the people, and instead actively divides the people. He's not even trying to hide it anymore...

So you agree that Trump is working to divide us at a time when it's important that we be united, but you don't think that his doing so is having any further negative effect on the rioting whatsoever?

It's a reasonable opinion, I guess, but I disagree. I think that at a sensitive time right now, if our leaders refuse to properly lead, then things getting worse can only be a foregone conclusion.

I don't think it's having as much impact as you think - I'm not going to rule it out, as I've said, Trump is being deliberately divisive - he gets pleasure out of seeing people hate one another, it's scary and demented.

What I'm really trying to say is that a lot of the hate and violence that is coming out now is not to be blamed on Trump. It has been there for decades. Us white, privileged people have been made to think racism was snuffed out with the civil rights movement, and the 13th amendment, but the truth is slavery and racism was reformed into something else, but it was still slavery and racism.

Trump promotes it, touts it, lives and breathes it. Every day that goes on, he looks more and more like Hitler reincarnated. The American Stalin. A confederate, and a bigot. For all of these reasons, Trump is at fault for the result of anyone who buys into that, but I'm afraid most people who follow him were always there to follow him. Trump has not changed anyone's mind, he's just further confirmed and publicized the corruption and hatred that was already there.

When I say Trump isn't to blame, what I mean is that he hasn't created a 'secret army' of nazis right under our noses, the 'secret army' has always been there.

I mean of course. Trump didn't invent systemic racism, I think we all understand that. I still think his complete unwillingness to show empathy for what the people are protesting and his lack of effort to be conciliatory can only have exacerbated things.

It certainly doesn't help, and I can agree that he has made it more acceptable to be publicly and blatantly racist.

Edit:

My issue with putting the blame on Trump is that it ignores the decades of systemic racism, and I feel that now, more than ever, it needs to be talked about. We (society) keep pushing it under a rug, perhaps wishing someone else will take care of it, but it isn't going away. Then you have riots like this, like what has happened over and over and over again... eventually we all have to accept some responsibility for it.

[Lord Dave]

The only blame you have is giving hate groups the empowerment to be public and open about it.  To do something more than just complain in chat rooms.

Surely you mean Trump, not me? I speak out against hate and violence. I don't empower hate groups to be public and open either - that is happening whether I complain about it here or not.

Yeah, sorry.  I mean the only thing you can blame Trump for.

[Roundy]

When I say Trump isn't to blame, what I mean is that he hasn't created a 'secret army' of nazis right under My issue with putting the blame on Trump is that it ignores the decades of systemic racism, and I feel that now, more than ever, it needs to be talked about. We (society) keep pushing it under a rug, perhaps wishing someone else will take care of it, but it isn't going away. Then you have riots like this, like what has happened over and over and over again... eventually we all have to accept some responsibility for it.

I get it, but still.

All around the country you have people speaking in solidarity with the protesters. Community leaders, government leaders, celebrities. A lot of attention has been brought to this issue. I don't think anybody is really missing the point of the protests, or the reason there's been rioting, and indeed this month of all should probably remind some of us of the kind of extreme lack of disregard for human dignity that leads to rioting like this, and the fact that it can have lasting, positive benefits.

People are fed up over an issue that long predated Trump. I get it. I suspect everybody gets it, except maybe some people who are inherently part of the problem.

So given all that, does it not piss you off that the most influential leader in the country, the person most in a position to speak to and console those who feel wronged by this, if not necessarily to really do anything about it, is essentially taking the side of those being protested against? That he has offered literally no positive message about the protesters themselves (remember, many of the Charlottesville protesters were "very fine people"), some of whom he has smeared? That he speaks the kind of rhetoric that only emboldens the police to behave the way they do?

I fully understand why people are protesting. But I'll be damned if I'm gonna let Trump off the hook for the chaos he's contributing to.

[timterroo]

When I say Trump isn't to blame, what I mean is that he hasn't created a 'secret army' of nazis right under My issue with putting the blame on Trump is that it ignores the decades of systemic racism, and I feel that now, more than ever, it needs to be talked about. We (society) keep pushing it under a rug, perhaps wishing someone else will take care of it, but it isn't going away. Then you have riots like this, like what has happened over and over and over again... eventually we all have to accept some responsibility for it.

People are fed up over an issue that long predated Trump. I get it. I suspect everybody gets it, except maybe some people who are inherently part of the problem.

I just don't know if that's true. I don't know that "everybody gets it".

[Rama Set]

When I say Trump isn't to blame, what I mean is that he hasn't created a 'secret army' of nazis right under My issue with putting the blame on Trump is that it ignores the decades of systemic racism, and I feel that now, more than ever, it needs to be talked about. We (society) keep pushing it under a rug, perhaps wishing someone else will take care of it, but it isn't going away. Then you have riots like this, like what has happened over and over and over again... eventually we all have to accept some responsibility for it.

People are fed up over an issue that long predated Trump. I get it. I suspect everybody gets it, except maybe some people who are inherently part of the problem.

I just don't know if that's true. I don't know that "everybody gets it".

For sure anyone capable of basic comprehension knows that the protests are ostensibly against systemic racism.  Whether or not everyone thinks its a valid position is another thing.

[Roundy]

When I say Trump isn't to blame, what I mean is that he hasn't created a 'secret army' of nazis right under My issue with putting the blame on Trump is that it ignores the decades of systemic racism, and I feel that now, more than ever, it needs to be talked about. We (society) keep pushing it under a rug, perhaps wishing someone else will take care of it, but it isn't going away. Then you have riots like this, like what has happened over and over and over again... eventually we all have to accept some responsibility for it.

People are fed up over an issue that long predated Trump. I get it. I suspect everybody gets it, except maybe some people who are inherently part of the problem.

I just don't know if that's true. I don't know that "everybody gets it".

For sure anyone capable of basic comprehension knows that the protests are ostensibly against systemic racism.

I have to agree with this. Anyone who doesn't understand what this is about hasn't been paying any attention at all, so putting some of the blame on Trump for what's happening won't have any effect on them anyway.

[Tom Bishop]

When your candidates suck so bad that you have to start a race riot to divert attention and raise funds.

[Roundy]

When your candidates suck so bad that you have to start a race riot to divert attention and raise funds.

Yeah, apparently that's how desperate Trump is. With the polling going the way it is can you blame him? 

Understandable as it is, I still think it's in bad taste.

[honk]

When your candidates suck so bad that you have to start a race riot to divert attention and raise funds.

https://www.mediamatters.org/fake-news/debunked-conspiracy-theory-about-black-lives-matter-actblue-and-democrats-can-be-traced

[Lord Dave]

When your candidates suck so bad that you have to start a race riot to divert attention and raise funds.

https://www.mediamatters.org/fake-news/debunked-conspiracy-theory-about-black-lives-matter-actblue-and-democrats-can-be-traced

Yeah.  This is like claiming all GoFundMe donations go to GoFundMe.com and not its recipient.

[Tom Bishop]

It says on BLM the donation page fine print that you are donating to an organization called ActBlue Charities.



It's pretty odd these organizations and donations are going through a left-leaning only 'payment processor' which acts as a major arm in funding the DNC. Their ToS is pretty sketchy:

https://secure.actblue.com/content/fineprint



What other payment processor will keep money that may be refused?

So even if the money is going to "Black Lives Matter", the BLM could simply "affirmatively refuse the contribution" and funnel it right back into ActBlue. ActBlue pays out as much as BLM organizers need to accomplish the mission, which is of course an insignificant fraction of the many millions they are getting internationally, and ActBlue distributes the rest to the "progressive" and leftist causes. BLM does not need ActBlue to do any of this. They could use any number of non-partisan agencies, or simply collect funds directly. But they are both part of the same scam and so they are naturally working together.

[Tumeni]

It says on BLM the donation page fine print that you are donating to an organization called ActBlue Charities.

SNIP

But they are both part of the same scam and so they are naturally working together.

I don't see the problem. 

Let's say we have an umbrella organisation, "Charities for the Blind". Under them are three separate charities;

1; Provision of assistance dogs
2; Provision of in-home assistance devices
3; Formation of a trading company which markets products made by the blind, and trains them to make them

I send a donation to the umbrella company, and mark it for 3. After I send it, 3 has to shut down its operation for some reason. The donation is then sent to 1, 2, or is allocated to help the umbrella company service 1 and 2.

I don't see a problem with this process. Why do you?