The Flat Earth Society
Flat Earth Discussion Boards => Flat Earth Theory => Topic started by: Davis86 on March 18, 2019, 06:37:19 AM
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Hello FE-Community,
I've been suspicious for quite a while and lately I stumbled on the FE theory and it caught my interest. I've already read most topics of the wiki, but there is a point where I need your help.
In the model of sunset it is described, that after the sun rays travel through a certain amount of air it stops being visible. Based on this explanation I conclude that the sun has some sort of circle on the map, where it can be seen.
So far it makes sense to me, but feel free to correct me in case I got that wrong.
Now, with the orbit of the sun I would expect the time zones (based on sunrise/sunset) to be shaped like the edge of a circle, not straight.
This detail currently is in conflict with what I believe to be true. Again, I am very new to this community and I hope that some of you can help me understand this issue :)
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In the model of sunset it is described, that after the sun rays travel through a certain amount of air it stops being visible.
Also note in those models the stars are nearly always further away, possibly projected onto a dome, but for some reason the light from those travels longer distances through the same air.
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In the model of sunset it is described, that after the sun rays travel through a certain amount of air it stops being visible. Based on this explanation I conclude that the sun has some sort of circle on the map, where it can be seen.
So far it makes sense to me, but feel free to correct me in case I got that wrong.
It sounds, at least to me, like you got it right. (The vanishing point (https://wiki.tfes.org/The_Setting_of_the_Sun) is also discussed extensively.)
Now, with the orbit of the sun I would expect the time zones (based on sunrise/sunset) to be shaped like the edge of a circle, not straight.
This detail currently is in conflict with what I believe to be true. Again, I am very new to this community and I hope that some of you can help me understand this issue :)
Honestly, and excuse my confusion, but you'll have to explain this in further detail. I'm not very familiar with time zones, and I'm having trouble understanding your point.
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At night, I can see the stars over the entire sky. If the sun is still up there on the dome, why can't I see it? If the sun is still up there, why do I not see the beam shining down in the distance reflected of the dust in the atmosphere, like a spotlight beam? Why does whatever is blocking my vision of sunlight and sun block my vision of stars? How can the dome be filled with stars while the sun is Timestill up there and I see stars right through it, or it isn't up there?
Time zones would be pie shaped on a polar projection map.
FEs do not understand perspective and vanishing point. The words "vanishing point" holds great promise for FE explanations, but it is a artistic technique for making 3d objects look right in a 2d image. Google it.
As for limiting the distance you can see, everyone can see stars over the entire dome everywhere. This means you can see from one edge of the dome to the other. If you can see stars everywhere, you could see the sun everywhere.
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Well, what if the sun isn’t actually round and the bright round thing in the sky is just the brightest part. Could something then funnel the light into straight lines, creating a rectangle of day and thus, the time zones we see today.
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Well, what if the sun isn’t actually round and the bright round thing in the sky is just the brightest part. Could something then funnel the light into straight lines, creating a rectangle of day and thus, the time zones we see today.
Thank you for the suggestion,
I thought about it. If the sun was a spotlight coming from the dome (I think you mean that? Otherwise please clarify) then what is your view on sunrise/sunset? Because I can't use one explanation in the first topic and another on the second. The explanation has to work for both.
So for any future replies, please address both aspects of time zone shape and sunrise/sunset if you post a different explanation.
As for the replies that rather start a new conversation and do not contribute to the discussion: Please address the issue I posted.
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Hello FE-Community,
I've been suspicious for quite a while and lately I stumbled on the FE theory and it caught my interest. I've already read most topics of the wiki, but there is a point where I need your help.
In the model of sunset it is described, that after the sun rays travel through a certain amount of air it stops being visible. Based on this explanation I conclude that the sun has some sort of circle on the map, where it can be seen.
So far it makes sense to me, but feel free to correct me in case I got that wrong.
Now, with the orbit of the sun I would expect the time zones (based on sunrise/sunset) to be shaped like the edge of a circle, not straight.
This detail currently is in conflict with what I believe to be true. Again, I am very new to this community and I hope that some of you can help me understand this issue :)
Hi Davies,
This is a bit of an odd question to me. It’s kind of like asking why we use a decimal system. The answer is: to make things easy for us.
The time zones are perfect straight lines, not because the sun marks the exact time everywhere along the boundaries, but because it makes sense to approximate them with straight lines (rather than showing the curvature at the ends). Otherwise, folks due south of you would soon be in a different time zone, without the sun having a radically different angle than originally.
In other words, the time zones are a simplification for humans. Just look on a globe at the time zones in French Polynesia. To make it easier some of them zig-zag back and forth to include/exclude islands near the border. You don’t really think the sunlight zigzags like that do you? So why would you think the sun makes perfectly straight lines?
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I know that the time zones are just convenience. I mean the actual time of sunrise and sunset. To give an example:
Bratislava (in Europe) is about the same longitude as Bangui (Central Africa). But the difference in latitude is 44°, Bangui is near the equator. Also important to note is that neither city is on a mountain. Still, they are only 7 minutes apart on sunrise and sunset. I currently can't comprehend why that is.
Also, I agree that agencies (especially NASA) can make up stories about science and space travel. But it seems hard to me to lie about time of sunrise, since everyone can see that with their own eyes.
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I know that the time zones are just convenience. I mean the actual time of sunrise and sunset. To give an example:
Bratislava (in Europe) is about the same longitude as Bangui (Central Africa). But the difference in latitude is 44°, Bangui is near the equator. Also important to note is that neither city is on a mountain. Still, they are only 7 minutes apart on sunrise and sunset. I currently can't comprehend why that is.
Also, I agree that agencies (especially NASA) can make up stories about science and space travel. But it seems hard to me to lie about time of sunrise, since everyone can see that with their own eyes.
How do you know this? I find it hard to believe that you are witnessing a 7 minute difference with your own eyes.
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I know that the time zones are just convenience. I mean the actual time of sunrise and sunset. To give an example:
Bratislava (in Europe) is about the same longitude as Bangui (Central Africa). But the difference in latitude is 44°, Bangui is near the equator. Also important to note is that neither city is on a mountain. Still, they are only 7 minutes apart on sunrise and sunset. I currently can't comprehend why that is.
Also, I agree that agencies (especially NASA) can make up stories about science and space travel. But it seems hard to me to lie about time of sunrise, since everyone can see that with their own eyes.
How do you know this? I find it hard to believe that you are witnessing a 7 minute difference with your own eyes.
It is true that I can't confirm it alone, but people living in the respective regions can. And for the claim, that the website gives different times depending on your position, I just called a friend overseas and he sees the exact same. I just meant that confirming/debunking these values is very easy as I just did that for myself. Also, I know that I can trust my friend on this.
Curvature for example is very hard to check with your own eyes because it requires a huge setup. Checking when the sun rises is easy. When I heard about FE I questioned basically everything from the ground on and 95% make sense to me. Believing in a system that does not make 100% sense to me is hard, although it's better than GE... I still wonder how time zones fit in the puzzle ???
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I would disagree that measuring curvature requires a huge set up.
You are confusing time zones with actual time. Your friend looks at his watch and it agrees with the time zone he is in. Obviously.
Two people 5 meters apart on either side of a boundary disagree by an hour. Do you think the Sun reflects this difference. Like I said, it is a convention.
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Again, when I talk about time zones in this thread, I refer to areas with the same moment of sunrise and sunset, not the human convention. And I asked my friend what values he saw on timeanddate.com, where I got my values for the Bangui/Bratislava example...
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Again, when I talk about time zones in this thread, I refer to areas with the same moment of sunrise and sunset, not the human convention. And I asked my friend what values he saw on timeanddate.com, where I got my values for the Bangui/Bratislava example...
Huh, interesting. Well, when I talk to my friend who lives in Alaska, he goes for over 24 hours with no sunrise. Despite being in a time zone. So what’s your point?
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Hello FE-Community,
I've been suspicious for quite a while and lately I stumbled on the FE theory and it caught my interest. I've already read most topics of the wiki, but there is a point where I need your help.
In the model of sunset it is described, that after the sun rays travel through a certain amount of air it stops being visible. Based on this explanation I conclude that the sun has some sort of circle on the map, where it can be seen.
So far it makes sense to me, but feel free to correct me in case I got that wrong.
Now, with the orbit of the sun I would expect the time zones (based on sunrise/sunset) to be shaped like the edge of a circle, not straight.
This detail currently is in conflict with what I believe to be true. Again, I am very new to this community and I hope that some of you can help me understand this issue :)
You are talking about a very specific flat earth model in which the earth is shaped like a flat disk.
Here is a different model of the earth, in which the earth is represented as a flat plane. This map is widely accepted by people who believe the earth is round. The time zones shown on this map should do much better to match your personal time zone observations.
https://www.timeanddate.com/time/map/
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Hello FE-Community,
I've been suspicious for quite a while and lately I stumbled on the FE theory and it caught my interest. I've already read most topics of the wiki, but there is a point where I need your help.
In the model of sunset it is described, that after the sun rays travel through a certain amount of air it stops being visible. Based on this explanation I conclude that the sun has some sort of circle on the map, where it can be seen.
So far it makes sense to me, but feel free to correct me in case I got that wrong.
Now, with the orbit of the sun I would expect the time zones (based on sunrise/sunset) to be shaped like the edge of a circle, not straight.
This detail currently is in conflict with what I believe to be true. Again, I am very new to this community and I hope that some of you can help me understand this issue :)
You are talking about a very specific flat earth model in which the earth is shaped like a flat disk.
Here is a different model of the earth, in which the earth is represented as a flat plane. This map is widely accepted by people who believe the earth is round. The time zones shown on this map should do much better to match your personal time zone observations.
https://www.timeanddate.com/time/map/
Sorry, I already flew across the pacific ocean, also I don't see how that map would be any better...
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Hello FE-Community,
I've been suspicious for quite a while and lately I stumbled on the FE theory and it caught my interest. I've already read most topics of the wiki, but there is a point where I need your help.
In the model of sunset it is described, that after the sun rays travel through a certain amount of air it stops being visible. Based on this explanation I conclude that the sun has some sort of circle on the map, where it can be seen.
So far it makes sense to me, but feel free to correct me in case I got that wrong.
Now, with the orbit of the sun I would expect the time zones (based on sunrise/sunset) to be shaped like the edge of a circle, not straight.
This detail currently is in conflict with what I believe to be true. Again, I am very new to this community and I hope that some of you can help me understand this issue :)
You are talking about a very specific flat earth model in which the earth is shaped like a flat disk.
Here is a different model of the earth, in which the earth is represented as a flat plane. This map is widely accepted by people who believe the earth is round. The time zones shown on this map should do much better to match your personal time zone observations.
https://www.timeanddate.com/time/map/
Sorry, I already flew across the pacific ocean, also I don't see how that map would be any better...
First off the time zones that you flew across are predicted by this map are they no?
Second off this map predicts that if you start in the united states in California and fly west you will arrive in Asia. Does this at all match what you experienced on your flight?
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Yes that matched my experience... But you told me it is a flat plane, so I can't just teleport from the left side of the map to the right. The map predicts that because it is a 2D representation of the GE world view. Sometimes I wonder what you are trying to tell me :-\
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Yes that matched my experience... But you told me it is a flat plane, so I can't just teleport from the left side of the map to the right. The map predicts that because it is a 2D representation of the GE world view. Sometimes I wonder what you are trying to tell me :-\
One thing that you will have to understand is that there are many models which depict the earth as a "flat" surface. There are pros and cons to all the different models.
The earth modeled as a circular disk with the north pole in the middle has a very hard time with things like time zones, flight times/distances, driving times/distances, shipping times/distances, time zones and some aspects of lunar cycles.
The earth can also be modeled as a interactive repeating plane. (much like a sphere could be considered a flat plane that curves in upon itself) Notice how i'm not linking you www.flatearthmodels.com I'm linking to you known and verified maps of the earth used by hundreds of thousands of people every day.
https://www.mapquest.com/
https://maps.yahoo.com/
http://suncalc.net
These models do much better with things like time zones, flight times/distances, driving times/distances, shipping times/distances, and time zones
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Yes that matched my experience... But you told me it is a flat plane, so I can't just teleport from the left side of the map to the right. The map predicts that because it is a 2D representation of the GE world view. Sometimes I wonder what you are trying to tell me :-\
One thing that you will have to understand is that there are many models which depict the earth as a "flat" surface. There are pros and cons to all the different models.
The earth modeled as a circular disk with the north pole in the middle has a very hard time with things like time zones, flight times/distances, driving times/distances, shipping times/distances, time zones and some aspects of lunar cycles.
The earth can also be modeled as a interactive repeating plane. (much like a sphere could be considered a flat plane that curves in upon itself) Notice how i'm not linking you www.flatearthmodels.com I'm linking to you known and verified maps of the earth used by hundreds of thousands of people every day.
https://www.mapquest.com/
https://maps.yahoo.com/
http://suncalc.net
These models do much better with things like time zones, flight times/distances, driving times/distances, shipping times/distances, and time zones
The problem with the infinite repeating model is the repeating part. Are there multiples of the same continent, country, city? Multiple repeating versions of me? I never could wrap my head around this model.
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The problem with the infinite repeating model is the repeating part. Are there multiples of the same continent, country, city? Multiple repeating versions of me? I never could wrap my head around this model.
In the repeating flat plane model: you started on the west coast of America and travel west. You cross the pacific ocean then hit Asia. You cross Asia into Europe. You leave the shores of Europe to cross the Atlantic ocean and hit the east coast of America. Cross America and you are back to the west coast of America. Is this the same West coast of America that you started at or a different one? You could repeat this trip an infinite number of times. Are there an infinite number of western america coastlines to depart from and arrive to?
In the round earth model: you started on the west coast of America and travel west. You cross the pacific ocean then hit Asia. You cross Asia into Europe. You leave the shores of Europe to cross the Atlantic ocean and hit the east coast of America. Cross America and you are back to the west coast of America. Is this the same West coast of America that you started at or a different one? You could repeat this trip an infinite number of times. Are there an infinite number of western america coastlines to depart from and arrive to?
Do you notice how they are literally the EXACT same? If you believe the earth is round how could this model be in any way confusing to you?
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The problem with the infinite repeating model is the repeating part. Are there multiples of the same continent, country, city? Multiple repeating versions of me? I never could wrap my head around this model.
In the repeating flat plane model: you started on the west coast of America and travel west. You cross the pacific ocean then hit Asia. You cross Asia into Europe. You leave the shores of Europe to cross the Atlantic ocean and hit the east coast of America. Cross America and you are back to the west coast of America. Is this the same West coast of America that you started at or a different one? You could repeat this trip an infinite number of times. Are there an infinite number of western america coastlines to depart from and arrive to?
In the round earth model: you started on the west coast of America and travel west. You cross the pacific ocean then hit Asia. You cross Asia into Europe. You leave the shores of Europe to cross the Atlantic ocean and hit the east coast of America. Cross America and you are back to the west coast of America. Is this the same West coast of America that you started at or a different one? You could repeat this trip an infinite number of times. Are there an infinite number of western america coastlines to depart from and arrive to?
Do you notice how they are literally the EXACT same? If you believe the earth is round how could this model be in any way confusing to you?
I may not be synaptically firing on all cylinders here, but I'll give it a go. They are not literally the exact same because of the operative word of 'repeating'. On a globe there is one San Francisco where I started my journey. On an infinite repeating plane there are an infinite number of San Franciscos. How many SF's do you count on the repeating plane versus the globe below:
(https://i.imgur.com/9xfaYxa.jpg?1)
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I may not be synaptically firing on all cylinders here, but I'll give it a go. They are not literally the exact same because of the operative word of 'repeating'. On a globe there is one San Francisco where I started my journey. On an infinite repeating plane there are an infinite number of San Franciscos. How many SF's do you count on the repeating plane versus the globe below:
(https://i.imgur.com/9xfaYxa.jpg?1)
The western travel pattern of west coast > pacific ocean > asia >europe > Atlantic ocean > east coast > west coast > pacific ocean > asia >europe > Atlantic ocean > east coast > west coast > pacific ocean > asia >europe > Atlantic ocean > east coast > west coast > pacific ocean > asia >europe > Atlantic ocean > east coast can go on forever. In the globe model I would call this an infinitely repeating pattern. In the flat model i would call this an infinitely repeating pattern. I changed some wording to remove the word repeating. Maybe this will make it more clear.
In the western travel infinite pattern flat earth model: you started on the west coast of America and travel west. You cross the pacific ocean then hit Asia. You cross Asia into Europe. You leave the shores of Europe to cross the Atlantic ocean and hit the east coast of America. Cross America and you are back to the west coast of America.
In the western travel infinite pattern round earth model: you started on the west coast of America and travel west. You cross the pacific ocean then hit Asia. You cross Asia into Europe. You leave the shores of Europe to cross the Atlantic ocean and hit the east coast of America. Cross America and you are back to the west coast of America.
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I may not be synaptically firing on all cylinders here, but I'll give it a go. They are not literally the exact same because of the operative word of 'repeating'. On a globe there is one San Francisco where I started my journey. On an infinite repeating plane there are an infinite number of San Franciscos. How many SF's do you count on the repeating plane versus the globe below:
The western travel pattern of west coast > pacific ocean > asia >europe > Atlantic ocean > east coast > west coast > pacific ocean > asia >europe > Atlantic ocean > east coast > west coast > pacific ocean > asia >europe > Atlantic ocean > east coast > west coast > pacific ocean > asia >europe > Atlantic ocean > east coast can go on forever. In the globe model I would call this an infinitely repeating pattern. In the flat model i would call this an infinitely repeating pattern. I changed some wording to remove the word repeating. Maybe this will make it more clear.
In the western travel infinite pattern flat earth model: you started on the west coast of America and travel west. You cross the pacific ocean then hit Asia. You cross Asia into Europe. You leave the shores of Europe to cross the Atlantic ocean and hit the east coast of America. Cross America and you are back to the west coast of America.
In the western travel infinite pattern round earth model: you started on the west coast of America and travel west. You cross the pacific ocean then hit Asia. You cross Asia into Europe. You leave the shores of Europe to cross the Atlantic ocean and hit the east coast of America. Cross America and you are back to the west coast of America.
Alright, Iam, but now I feel even more daft.
In the globe model, there is no 'pattern'. Each port of call, departure, destination, is a single point. A to B. I guess my question is, does your model "Pac Man"? And if not, can you diagram it out? Or, I'll do it for you if we can agree on what you're trying to convey.
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Alright, Iam, but now I feel even more daft.
In the globe model, there is no 'pattern'. Each port of call, departure, destination, is a single point. A to B. I guess my question is, does your model "Pac Man"? And if not, can you diagram it out? Or, I'll do it for you if we can agree on what you're trying to convey.
i looked up the definition of the word pattern. I found this definition. If you don't like the word pattern then I will replace it.
"A regular and intelligible form or sequence discernible in the way in which something happens or is done."
A regular and intelligible sequence of destinations when traveling west on the globe earth:
west coast > pacific ocean > asia >europe > Atlantic ocean > east coast > west coast
A regular and intelligible sequence of destinations when traveling west on this flat earth model earth:
west coast > pacific ocean > asia >europe > Atlantic ocean > east coast > west coast
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Alright, Iam, but now I feel even more daft.
In the globe model, there is no 'pattern'. Each port of call, departure, destination, is a single point. A to B. I guess my question is, does your model "Pac Man"? And if not, can you diagram it out? Or, I'll do it for you if we can agree on what you're trying to convey.
i looked up the definition of the word pattern. I found this definition. If you don't like the word pattern then I will replace it.
"A regular and intelligible form or sequence discernible in the way in which something happens or is done."
A regular and intelligible sequence of destinations when traveling west on the globe earth:
west coast > pacific ocean > asia >europe > Atlantic ocean > east coast > west coast
A regular and intelligible sequence of destinations when traveling west on this flat earth model earth:
west coast > pacific ocean > asia >europe > Atlantic ocean > east coast > west coast
Let me lay it out another way. Your FE model, west coast > pacific ocean > asia >europe > Atlantic ocean > east coast > west coast takes you from A to B in the picture below. There is 2 of everything in the image. Two San Franciscos, for example, A where I started and B where I landed. Two distinct points on the flat plane thousands of miles apart yet they are the one and only San Francisco. How can there be two?
On a globe you head west and circle around the ball and land back where you started, A to A, as it were. Only one San Francisco on the globe.
What am I missing?
(https://i.imgur.com/95b2kQQ.jpg?1)
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Ok, a map with infinite parallel versions of the world where the exact same things happen would theoretically make the flight across the pacific possible. How convenient...
But it still doesn't help to explain the time of sunrise all over the world the way it is.
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The problem with the infinite repeating model is the repeating part. Are there multiples of the same continent, country, city? Multiple repeating versions of me? I never could wrap my head around this model.
In the repeating flat plane model: you started on the west coast of America and travel west. You cross the pacific ocean then hit Asia. You cross Asia into Europe. You leave the shores of Europe to cross the Atlantic ocean and hit the east coast of America. Cross America and you are back to the west coast of America. Is this the same West coast of America that you started at or a different one? You could repeat this trip an infinite number of times. Are there an infinite number of western america coastlines to depart from and arrive to?
In the round earth model: you started on the west coast of America and travel west. You cross the pacific ocean then hit Asia. You cross Asia into Europe. You leave the shores of Europe to cross the Atlantic ocean and hit the east coast of America. Cross America and you are back to the west coast of America. Is this the same West coast of America that you started at or a different one? You could repeat this trip an infinite number of times. Are there an infinite number of western america coastlines to depart from and arrive to?
Do you notice how they are literally the EXACT same? If you believe the earth is round how could this model be in any way confusing to you?
Hold up, is your repeating flat plane model just pacman? I am very confused, if it's a flat plane, then how do you keep on going west or east and end up at your original location? You have to turn around at some point. Are you implying there's infinite versions of the continents or something? Is it some kind of mobius strip thing? Please draw a picture, your comparison is really confusing.
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Let me lay it out another way. Your FE model, west coast > pacific ocean > asia >europe > Atlantic ocean > east coast > west coast takes you from A to B in the picture below. There is 2 of everything in the image. Two San Franciscos, for example, A where I started and B where I landed. Two distinct points on the flat plane thousands of miles apart yet they are the one and only San Francisco. How can there be two?
On a globe you head west and circle around the ball and land back where you started, A to A, as it were. Only one San Francisco on the globe.
What am I missing?
(https://i.imgur.com/95b2kQQ.jpg?1)
There are not two west coasts on earth. But if you travel the planet you can come across regular and intelligible sequences of destinations which can repeat an infinite number of times depending on what direction you travel.
There are two west coasts on this regular and intelligible sequence of destinations when traveling west on a globe earth.
west coast > pacific ocean > asia >europe > Atlantic ocean > east coast > west coast
Even though the west coast appears twice on this regular and intelligible sequence of destinations when traveling west there is only one west coast.
There are two west coasts on this regular and intelligible sequence of destinations when traveling west on this flat earth model.
west coast > pacific ocean > asia >europe > Atlantic ocean > east coast > west coast
Even though the west coast appears twice on this regular and intelligible sequence of destinations when traveling west there is only one west coast.
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Let me lay it out another way. Your FE model, west coast > pacific ocean > asia >europe > Atlantic ocean > east coast > west coast takes you from A to B in the picture below. There is 2 of everything in the image. Two San Franciscos, for example, A where I started and B where I landed. Two distinct points on the flat plane thousands of miles apart yet they are the one and only San Francisco. How can there be two?
On a globe you head west and circle around the ball and land back where you started, A to A, as it were. Only one San Francisco on the globe.
What am I missing?
(https://i.imgur.com/95b2kQQ.jpg?1)
There are not two west coasts on earth. But if you travel the planet you can come across regular and intelligible sequences of destinations which can repeat an infinite number of times depending on what direction you travel.
There are two west coasts on this regular and intelligible sequence of destinations when traveling west on a globe earth.
west coast > pacific ocean > asia >europe > Atlantic ocean > east coast > west coast
Even though the west coast appears twice on this regular and intelligible sequence of destinations when traveling west there is only one west coast.
There are two west coasts on this regular and intelligible sequence of destinations when traveling west on this flat earth model.
west coast > pacific ocean > asia >europe > Atlantic ocean > east coast > west coast
Even though the west coast appears twice on this regular and intelligible sequence of destinations when traveling west there is only one west coast.
There is only 1 west coast on a globe. 1 of everything. On the image I provided of your plane there are 2 west coasts, two of everything. You're not making any sense with words - Can you render a diagram of what you're talking about?
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Can you render a diagram of what you're talking about?
I feel like you are an intelligent person. I feel like you know how to use mapquest or yahoo maps. These maps represent an infinite series of regular and intelligible sequence of destinations when traveling west. These maps are used and understood very well by literally millions and millions of people each year. I have diagrammed, in detail for you, the regular and intelligible sequence of destinations when traveling wes
screenshots taken directly from www.mapquest.com of the regular and intelligible sequence of destinations when traveling west on this mapquest model which renders the earth as a flat plane: United states > pacific ocean > asia >europe > Atlantic ocean > united states
1. Starting at the United States heading west you reach the pacific ocean
The blue arrow below represents heading west from the west coast and arriving into the pacific ocean.
(https://i.imgur.com/tdjUZEK.jpg)
2. Continuing west from the pacific ocean you reach Asia
The blue arrow represents heading west from the pacific ocean and arriving in Asia
(https://i.imgur.com/gqehUpo.jpg)
3. Going west from Asia puts you in Europe
The blue arrow represents heading west from Asia and arriving in Europe
(https://i.imgur.com/dWhFJEW.jpg)
3. Going west from Europe puts you in the Atlantic Ocean
The blue arrow represents heading west from Europe and arriving in the Atlantic Ocean
(https://i.imgur.com/GGHwM2h.jpg)
4. Going west from the Atlantic Ocean puts you back in America
The blue arrow represents heading west from the Atlantic Ocean and arriving in the United States
(https://i.imgur.com/Wl1hfTT.jpg)
Does this mean that there are infinite United States? No it does not.
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Can you render a diagram of what you're talking about?
I feel like you are an intelligent person. I feel like you know how to use mapquest or yahoo maps. These maps represent an infinite series of regular and intelligible sequence of destinations when traveling west. These maps are used and understood very well by literally millions and millions of people each year. I have diagrammed, in detail for you, the regular and intelligible sequence of destinations when traveling wes
screenshots taken directly from www.mapquest.com of the regular and intelligible sequence of destinations when traveling west on this mapquest model which renders the earth as a flat plane: United states > pacific ocean > asia >europe > Atlantic ocean > united states
1. Starting at the United States heading west you reach the pacific ocean
The blue arrow below represents heading west from the west coast and arriving into the pacific ocean.
(https://i.imgur.com/tdjUZEK.jpg)
2. Continuing west from the pacific ocean you reach Asia
The blue arrow represents heading west from the pacific ocean and arriving in Asia
(https://i.imgur.com/gqehUpo.jpg)
3. Going west from Asia puts you in Europe
The blue arrow represents heading west from Asia and arriving in Europe
(https://i.imgur.com/dWhFJEW.jpg)
3. Going west from Europe puts you in the Atlantic Ocean
The blue arrow represents heading west from Europe and arriving in the Atlantic Ocean
(https://i.imgur.com/GGHwM2h.jpg)
4. Going west from the Atlantic Ocean puts you back in America
The blue arrow represents heading west from the Atlantic Ocean and arriving in the United States
(https://i.imgur.com/Wl1hfTT.jpg)
Does this mean that there are infinite United States? No it does not.
Thanks for diagramming. Using MapQuest as well, do you believe the below adequately represents the journey west from SF and returning back to SF on your infinite flat plane?
(https://i.imgur.com/jAOBMPc.jpg?1)
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Thanks for diagramming. Using MapQuest as well, do you believe the below adequately represents the journey west from SF and returning back to SF on your infinite flat plane?
(https://i.imgur.com/jAOBMPc.jpg?1)
No. I don't believe that is correct.That diagram shows more than one Africa, Asia, Australia etc. I believe there is only one of each of the continents with a regular and intelligible sequence of destinations when traveling in a straight line in any particular direction which will repeat an infinite number of times as long as you continue to travel in that direction.
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Thanks for diagramming. Using MapQuest as well, do you believe the below adequately represents the journey west from SF and returning back to SF on your infinite flat plane?
(https://i.imgur.com/jAOBMPc.jpg?1)
No. I don't believe that is correct.That diagram shows more than one Africa, Asia, Australia etc. I believe there is only one of each of the continents with a regular and intelligible sequence of destinations when traveling in a straight line in any particular direction which will repeat an infinite number of times as long as you continue to travel in that direction.
How exactly does that work? Is there some magic portal at a certain longitude or something? It's rather confusing, you travel one direction on a flat plane without turning around, and then suddenly you're on the other side of said plane.
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Ok, a map with infinite parallel versions of the world where the exact same things happen would theoretically make the flight across the pacific possible. How convenient...
But it still doesn't help to explain the time of sunrise all over the world the way it is.
Yes it does. Check out this website:
Notice how i'm not linking you to a website like www.flat_earth_time_zones.com.
I'm sending you a link to a respectable website using a time zone map widely accepted as accurate by MILLIONS and MILLIONS of people.
https://www.timeanddate.com/time/map/
Notice how the earth is depicted as a flat plane?
Notice how the time zones on the left of the map also exist on the right of the map?
Notice how the time zones on the right of the map also exist on the left of the map?
This concept makes sense to MILLIONS and MILLIONS of people worldwide who would all agree this is an accurate time zone map.
How exactly does that work? Is there some magic portal at a certain longitude or something? It's rather confusing, you travel one direction on a flat plane without turning around, and then suddenly you're on the other side of said plane.
here is a regular and intelligible sequence of destinations when traveling west on a globe earth.
west coast > pacific ocean > asia >europe > Atlantic ocean > east coast > west coast
here is a regular and intelligible sequence of destinations when traveling west on this flat earth model.
west coast > pacific ocean > asia >europe > Atlantic ocean > east coast > west coast
How is one way super easy to understand and another way unimaginable? They are literally the exact same. You go far enough in one direction in a straight line in both models and you wind up where you started.
I'm not sending you links to www.magic_portal_flatearth_map.com. I'm sending you links to many websites with maps of the earth accepted by MILLIONS and MILLIONS of people as accurate. They all function roughly the same way.
maps.yahoo.com
https://www.mapquest.com/
suncalc.net
https://www.timeanddate.com/time/map/
https://www.openstreetmap.org/
https://www.bing.com/maps
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So using time and date, I think the question some of us has is/are (see attached time and date map):
- Starting at the blue circle (SF), flying due west, on the flat map, you go off the image on the left.
- How is it that me and my plane all of a sudden, appear on the far right edge of the map image?
- How did I, on the the flat map, poof, disappear off the left edge and then reappear way over on the right edge?
(https://i.imgur.com/vMAPQa3.jpg?1)
Lastly, is there anything else in the world that functions the way you are describing that we can look at as sort of a guide?
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@iamcpc
You can't just say that it makes sense because the map says so. It has to fit into the concept of your world. And illumination by the sun is different for a plane compared to a globe. You cannot say "It makes sense because I say it makes sense.", you need to analyse whether it makes sense...
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- Starting at the blue circle (SF), flying due west, on the flat map, you go off the image on the left.
I've already demonstrated the path of travel when going west from the west coast of the united states many times on thread. read this post:
I have diagrammed, in detail, what happens when you travel west from the west coast of the united states and travel west until you arrive back at your destination:
https://forum.tfes.org/index.php?topic=14046.msg187564#msg187564
Lastly, is there anything else in the world that functions the way you are describing that we can look at as sort of a guide?
Yes. Well known, well used, verified accurate maps of the earth used by millions and millions of people each year
maps.yahoo.com
https://www.mapquest.com/
suncalc.net
https://www.timeanddate.com/time/map/
https://www.openstreetmap.org/
https://www.bing.com/maps
You can't just say that it makes sense because the map says so. It has to fit into the concept of your world. And illumination by the sun is different for a plane compared to a globe. You cannot say "It makes sense because I say it makes sense.", you need to analyse whether it makes sense...
I really don't know how to respond to this. I guess the best responses I can think of are "I agree" or "OK"
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- Starting at the blue circle (SF), flying due west, on the flat map, you go off the image on the left.
I've already demonstrated the path of travel when going west from the west coast of the united states many times on thread. read this post:
I have diagrammed, in detail, what happens when you travel west from the west coast of the united states and travel west until you arrive back at your destination:
https://forum.tfes.org/index.php?topic=14046.msg187564#msg187564
Lastly, is there anything else in the world that functions the way you are describing that we can look at as sort of a guide?
Yes. Well known, well used, verified accurate maps of the earth used by millions and millions of people each year
maps.yahoo.com
https://www.mapquest.com/
suncalc.net
https://www.timeanddate.com/time/map/
https://www.openstreetmap.org/
https://www.bing.com/maps
You can't just say that it makes sense because the map says so. It has to fit into the concept of your world. And illumination by the sun is different for a plane compared to a globe. You cannot say "It makes sense because I say it makes sense.", you need to analyse whether it makes sense...
I really don't know how to respond to this. I guess the best responses I can think of are "I agree" or "OK"
Thanks for repeating what you have already said, extremely helpful. All of us here already know the method of travel, what we want to know is how it's possible on a flat plane with only one set of continents without turning around. Stack presented you with a map with copies of the continents and you said that wasn't it, so what is it? Also, about your demonstration, have you ever thought about fucking zooming out? Maybe if you did that you would have seen that you moved to a copy of the continent in your demo. That's how those online maps do it, zoom out on yahoo maps for example, you'll get the same thing. Yet you continue incessantly saying that there is a flat plane with only the continents and no copies, so then what happens in the real world when on the online map you cross from into a copy of the continents?
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If we add in electromagnetic acceleration bending light, the space/time density conversation, we could possibly be travelling in the manner that he refers and we just don't know it.
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Thanks for repeating what you have already said, extremely helpful. All of us here already know the method of travel, what we want to know is how it's possible on a flat plane with only one set of continents without turning around. Stack presented you with a map with copies of the continents and you said that wasn't it, so what is it?
This map only has one set of continents:
https://www.bing.com/maps Demonstrates this.
1. Zoom all the way out.
2. Center your map on the United States. (the center of the map will indicate where you are at on your path to the west)
3. Move the map to the west using your mouse or by swiping.
4. Because the center indicates where you are you never reach the edge.
Also, about your demonstration, have you ever thought about fucking zooming out? Maybe if you did that you would have seen that you moved to a copy of the continent in your demo.
What is the difference between zooming out and fucking zooming out? I'm going to assume they are both the same and the "fucking" was just a waste of your time and energy typing it and a waste of my time and energy reading it.
Zoom out here:
https://www.bing.com/maps
I don't see a copy of the continents
so then what happens in the real world when on the online map you cross from into a copy of the continents?
https://www.bing.com/maps does not have copies of the continents.
If we add in electromagnetic acceleration bending light, the space/time density conversation, we could possibly be travelling in the manner that he refers and we just don't know it.
this regular and intelligible sequence of destinations when traveling west. This happens regardless of electromagnetic acceleration, refracted light, or any sort of space/time density conversion. It happens for those that believe the earth is flat. It happens for those that believe the earth is round. It happens for those that believe the earth is fake and we are living in the matrix.
west coast > pacific ocean > asia >europe > Atlantic ocean > east coast > west coast
Again i'm not sending you a link to some obscure websites. I'm sending you links to accurate maps of the earth used and developed by used by hundreds of millions of people by billion dollar corporations.
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Thanks for repeating what you have already said, extremely helpful. All of us here already know the method of travel, what we want to know is how it's possible on a flat plane with only one set of continents without turning around. Stack presented you with a map with copies of the continents and you said that wasn't it, so what is it?
This map only has one set of continents:
https://www.bing.com/maps Demonstrates this.
1. Zoom all the way out.
2. Center your map on the United States. (the center of the map will indicate where you are at on your path to the west)
3. Move the map to the west using your mouse or by swiping.
4. Because the center indicates where you are you never reach the edge.
Also, about your demonstration, have you ever thought about fucking zooming out? Maybe if you did that you would have seen that you moved to a copy of the continent in your demo.
What is the difference between zooming out and fucking zooming out? I'm going to assume they are both the same and the "fucking" was just a waste of your time and energy typing it and a waste of my time and energy reading it.
Zoom out here:
https://www.bing.com/maps
I don't see a copy of the continents
so then what happens in the real world when on the online map you cross from into a copy of the continents?
https://www.bing.com/maps does not have copies of the continents.
If we add in electromagnetic acceleration bending light, the space/time density conversation, we could possibly be travelling in the manner that he refers and we just don't know it.
this regular and intelligible sequence of destinations when traveling west. This happens regardless of electromagnetic acceleration, refracted light, or any sort of space/time density conversion. It happens for those that believe the earth is flat. It happens for those that believe the earth is round. It happens for those that believe the earth is fake and we are living in the matrix.
west coast > pacific ocean > asia >europe > Atlantic ocean > east coast > west coast
Again i'm not sending you a link to some obscure websites. I'm sending you links to accurate maps of the earth used and developed by used by hundreds of millions of people by billion dollar corporations.
So you still refuse to tell us what happens in the real world when you reach one edge and magically appear on the other edge with one set of continents?
Looking at Bing maps, you can't even zoom out all the way, so how can you be sure there is only one set? Look at yahoo maps or mapquest and zoom out all the way, you can see multiple copies. They all basically do the same thing, infinite horizontal scrolling, when you scroll to the left and reach the edge of one tile of a set of continent, it moves on to the next tile, with a copy of the continents on it, all bing maps does is make sure you can't zoom out enough to see that happen. But maybe you can if you try some of the stuff in the links below (haven't tried it yet, but will later)
https://stackoverflow.com/questions/11051927/how-to-show-the-full-map-and-prevent-scrolling-in-bing-maps-api (https://stackoverflow.com/questions/11051927/how-to-show-the-full-map-and-prevent-scrolling-in-bing-maps-api)
https://stackoverflow.com/questions/19511637/how-to-disable-horizontal-infinite-scrolling-in-bing-map-control
(https://stackoverflow.com/questions/19511637/how-to-disable-horizontal-infinite-scrolling-in-bing-map-control)
https://social.msdn.microsoft.com/Forums/sqlserver/en-US/b8ff0bba-7d5c-456d-819d-0d4c9f961fd0/bingmaps-javascripthtml-how-to-disable-infinite-horizontal-scrolling?forum=bingmapswindows8 (https://social.msdn.microsoft.com/Forums/sqlserver/en-US/b8ff0bba-7d5c-456d-819d-0d4c9f961fd0/bingmaps-javascripthtml-how-to-disable-infinite-horizontal-scrolling?forum=bingmapswindows8)
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So you still refuse to tell us what happens in the real world when you reach one edge and magically appear on the other edge with one set of continents?
I have never refused. I have been trying diligently to explain this. I have explained traveling west many times in my responses. I'll explain it again. You don't reach an edge and magically appear on the other edge with one set of continents. Maybe it would help to think of traveling on an omnidirectional treadmill. If you walk far enough on a treadmill you arrive back at the same place you started. There is no magical teleportation edge. There is no infinite set of treadmills.
I made a demonstration here without hitting an edge:
https://forum.tfes.org/index.php?topic=14046.msg187564#msg187564
Looking at Bing maps, you can't even zoom out all the way, so how can you be sure there is only one set?
if i'm zoomed out all the way or not is a moot point. Bing maps at it's current zoom level demonstrates how you can travel west long enough and arrive back where you started without a magical edge and infinite sets of continents.
Look at yahoo maps or mapquest and zoom out all the way, you can see multiple copies. They all basically do the same thing, infinite horizontal scrolling, when you scroll to the left and reach the edge of one tile of a set of continent, it moves on to the next tile, with a copy of the continents on it,
i'm not talking about yahoo maps or mapquest.com right now. i'm talking about bing because it has a zoom level which is set to only display one set of continents to make it easier for people to understand.
all bing maps does is make sure you can't zoom out enough to see that happen. But maybe you can if you try some of the stuff in the links below (haven't tried it yet, but will later)
if i'm zoomed out all the way or not is a moot point. Bing maps at it's current zoom level demonstrates how you can travel west long enough and arrive back where you started without a magical edge and infinite sets of continents.
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So you still refuse to tell us what happens in the real world when you reach one edge and magically appear on the other edge with one set of continents?
Maybe it would help to think of traveling on an omnidirectional treadmill. If you walk far enough on a treadmill you arrive back at the same place you started. There is no magical teleportation edge. There is no infinite set of treadmills.
I'm stumped again. On the omnidirectional treadmill, I'm not 'traveling' anywhere. The earth below me is moving, I am not. As well, do we each have our own earth treadmill? Because what happens if you and I both jet from SF and you are going West and I am going East? How does that work?
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As well, do we each have our own earth treadmill?
I just used an omnidirectional treadmill as a concept.
when the position of a body with respect to its surroundings does not change with time it is said to be "at rest". When the position of a body with respect to it's surroundings does change with time then it is is said to be moving. Things like rest and motion are 100% relative to the situation, the object, and it's surroundings.
If you start walking/driving/flying west on earth your surroundings do change with time so I would say that you, relative to your surroundings, are in motion. Multiple people being in motion will all have different frame of references for motion.
Someone sitting on an airplane heading west is not moving relative to his immediate surroundings of the airplane but is moving relative to the surface of the earth. He has a direction of travel, relative to his starting location, of west.
Someone sitting on an airplane heading east is not moving relative to his immediate surroundings of the airplane but is moving relative to the surface of the earth.He has a direction of travel, relative to his starting location, of east.
Because what happens if you and I both jet from SF and you are going West and I am going East? How does that work?
I have outlined the path west here with blue arrows:
https://forum.tfes.org/index.php?topic=14046.msg187564#msg187564
I really don't want to take the time to make screenshots and draw red arrows going east. I can tell that you are intelligent and can imagine a similar scenario in which there are red arrows going east. One person follows the blue series of screenshots going west and another follows the red series of screenshots east.