Rama Set

Re: Trump
« Reply #7120 on: November 22, 2020, 08:12:24 PM »
It was written before Election Day, so there is plenty of information now available that wasn’t then.

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Offline stack

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Re: Trump
« Reply #7121 on: November 22, 2020, 08:16:47 PM »
Where's the whole Sydney Powell "Dominion/Smartmatic Venzualen Socialist 6 Million Fraudulent Switched Votes" thing right now?

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Offline AATW

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Re: Trump
« Reply #7122 on: November 22, 2020, 08:33:15 PM »
It was written before Election Day, so there is plenty of information now available that wasn’t then.
Sure. But I think for Trump to get any real traction in clinging to power he’d have to either have good evidence of widespread fraud - if he has that he’s hiding it well - or he’d have to have had a much closer election result.
As it is the result was clear enough that he can have as big a tantrum as he likes, not enough people are buying it. Some of his more deluded supporters will and that is of concern, but I don’t think anyone in a position of power is fooled.
Tom: "Claiming incredulity is a pretty bad argument. Calling it "insane" or "ridiculous" is not a good argument at all."

TFES Wiki Occam's Razor page, by Tom: "What's the simplest explanation; that NASA has successfully designed and invented never before seen rocket technologies from scratch which can accelerate 100 tons of matter to an escape velocity of 7 miles per second"

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Trump
« Reply #7123 on: November 22, 2020, 09:24:41 PM »
'Trump it looooosing.'

These cases mentioned are either not even by the Trump campaign, or are small early ones which try to get the state on a technicality or law. The 'dismissed cases' were doing things like questioning state law or state actions and were expected to be appealed to the Supreme Court to determine what is meant by a meaningful observation of counting by election observers, as what happened recently in PA. In this linked PA case it's a good thing that the state continues to deny and censor and dismiss so that the case can get through the process to the Supreme Court in a timely manner, so that they can decide the matter as final arbitrator. We learn about this process of what happens when you disagree with the state and how the process goes to the US Supreme Court in US Civics.

Also, look into how long discovery takes. The main fraud case hasn't even been filed, but will likely be filed in the near future (and may be expedited by SCOTUS if they think it needs to).

Nov 21st - Sidney Powell: 'Biblical' Lawsuit Coming, Accuses Ga. Gov. Kemp of Deal With Dominion - https://www.newsmax.com/newsmax-tv/sidney-powell-campaign-lawyer-dominion/2020/11/21/id/998181/

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Offline AATW

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Re: Trump
« Reply #7124 on: November 22, 2020, 09:26:17 PM »
Newsmax. Heh, that’s where all the Fox News fans scurried off to when even Fox wasn’t delusional enough to buy into Trump’s bullshit.

This is what you sound like

Tom: "Claiming incredulity is a pretty bad argument. Calling it "insane" or "ridiculous" is not a good argument at all."

TFES Wiki Occam's Razor page, by Tom: "What's the simplest explanation; that NASA has successfully designed and invented never before seen rocket technologies from scratch which can accelerate 100 tons of matter to an escape velocity of 7 miles per second"

Rama Set

Re: Trump
« Reply #7125 on: November 22, 2020, 09:31:57 PM »
'Trump it looooosing.'

Yes.

Quote
These cases mentioned are either not even by the Trump campaign, or are small early ones which try to get the state on a technicality or law. The 'dismissed cases' were doing things like questioning state law or state actions and were expected to be appealed to the Supreme Court to determine what is meant by a meaningful observation of counting by election observers, as what happened recently in PA. In this linked PA case it's a good thing that the state continues to deny and censor and dismiss so that the case can get through the process to the Supreme Court in a timely manner, so that they can decide the matter as final arbitrator. We learn about this process of what happens when you disagree with the state and how the process goes to the Supreme Court in US Civics.

Who cares if they are by the Trump campaign or not? No evidence of voter fraud or meaningful irregularities have been put forth by anyone; not Trump’s team, not independent investigators, not regulatory bodies. All we have is evidence to the contrary. The variances that the Wayne County canvassing board dealt with recently were smaller than the primaries. The most recent case dismissed in PA was Trump’s and was dismissed with very harsh words from the judge on how woefully inadequate their case was to nullify a single vote nevermind the 7M votes that was absurdly asked for.

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Also, look into how long discovery takes. The main fraud case hasn't even been filed, but will likely be filed in the near future (and may be expedited by SCOTUS).

You don’t mean discovery. Discovery happens after a complaint is filed. God speed, Sydney Powell. Your biblical Kraken is surely mighty.

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Trump
« Reply #7126 on: November 22, 2020, 09:43:35 PM »
Newsmax. Heh, that’s where all the Fox News fans scurried off to when even Fox wasn’t delusional enough to buy into Trump’s bullshit.

This is what you sound like

You're just posting memes. In previous important cases against a State it has not been uncommon for the State to try to dismiss it in various ways, until it gets to the US Supreme Court, which ultimately rules against the State.

An analogy:

- You are a child and disagree with something Father says
- Father makes you go through a long process with him until you can bring in Mother

When really, it is Mother who is the arbitrator, and the most important judge you need to convince to show that Father is wrong. 

In this light, the court cases haven't even started yet. The only case which went to the US Supreme Court so far has ruled in Trump's favor.

So someone could say:

Trump: 1
Dems: 0

You don’t mean discovery. Discovery happens after a complaint is filed. God speed, Sydney Powell. Your biblical Kraken is surely mighty.

What makes you think they haven't filed a complaint to get discovery underway for the lawsuit?

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No evidence of voter fraud or meaningful irregularities have been put forth by anyone; not Trump’s team, not independent investigators, not regulatory bodies. All we have is evidence to the contrary.

Plenty of evidence is claimed to exist, and will be put forward in the fraud case. You have recently seen press conferences and interviews by Powell and Giuliani describing it, so it is incorrect to say that no evidence exists.
« Last Edit: November 22, 2020, 10:16:40 PM by Tom Bishop »

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Offline stack

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Re: Trump
« Reply #7127 on: November 22, 2020, 09:53:58 PM »
I can't wait for the show to begin. Here's what we have to look forward to from NewsMax:

Among the most explosive claims alluded to by Powell were:

- Joe Biden votes being "weighted" at 1.25 times and President Donald Trump votes being parsed at 3/4.
- Algorithms that gave Democrats 35,000 extra votes.
- Modifications made to voting machines after statutory cutoff dates for changes.
- Past election victories, including Hillary Clinton's primary victory over Sen. Bernie Sanders, I-Vt., being forced decided by Dominion Voting Systems.
- Alleged pay-for-play kick backs to public officials, potentially even Georgia GOP Gov. Kemp for a late grant to use Dominion Voting Systems.

I mean Sydney is on FIRE!
"Georgia is probably going to be the first state I'm gonna blow up," Powell said rhetorically with her pending lawsuits alleging massive voter fraud.

She is going to blow some shit up. An entire State no less. I bet you she is going to blow up like the Falconer and the Survivor Contestant did with their terabytes of treasonous Obama administration evidence.   

Who needs Netflix to entertain us during covid lockdowns when we have all of this?


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Offline AATW

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Re: Trump
« Reply #7128 on: November 22, 2020, 10:08:54 PM »
Plenty of evidence is claimed to exist
Bolded the part which might be the slight weakness here.
Because the only people claiming that are Trump’s team. The evidence seems to be a combination of baseless conspiracy theories and affidavits from people who don’t understand how elections work.
Then there’s people like the USPS dude - he was held up as this great whistleblower. The reality was he was just some bloke who half heard an out of context conversation and said that his “mind might have made up the rest”.

I posted a meme because that is what you’re sounding like. And I’ll ask again, if the Supreme Court tell Trump to get lost too then will you accept the result? You seem to think the evidence is good. You’ve said they rule in fact. So if they rule against Trump then Biden won fair and square, right?
Tom: "Claiming incredulity is a pretty bad argument. Calling it "insane" or "ridiculous" is not a good argument at all."

TFES Wiki Occam's Razor page, by Tom: "What's the simplest explanation; that NASA has successfully designed and invented never before seen rocket technologies from scratch which can accelerate 100 tons of matter to an escape velocity of 7 miles per second"

Rama Set

Re: Trump
« Reply #7129 on: November 22, 2020, 10:11:35 PM »
Newsmax. Heh, that’s where all the Fox News fans scurried off to when even Fox wasn’t delusional enough to buy into Trump’s bullshit.

This is what you sound like

You're just posting memes. You are not a US Citizen and have never taken a US Civics course. In important cases against a State it is not uncommon for the State to try to dismiss it in various ways, until it gets to the US Supreme Court, which ultimately rules against the State.

- You are a child and disagree with something Father says
- Daddy makes you go through a long process until you can bring in Mother

When really, it's Mother who is the arbitrator, and the most important judge you need to convince. 

In this light, the court cases haven't even started yet. The only case which went to the Supreme Court so far has ruled in Trump's favor.

So it's really:

Trump: 1
Dems: 0

Lol no. Multiple suits have been dismissed with prejudice or withdrawn by the plaintiffs. Those aren’t coming back in a higher court.

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You don’t mean discovery. Discovery happens after a complaint is filed. God speed, Sydney Powell. Your biblical Kraken is surely mighty.

What makes you think they haven't filed a complaint to get discovery underway for the lawsuit?

The lack of evidence of a complaint. Complaints are a matter of public record and every move by the Trump campaign is heavily scrutinized.

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Trump
« Reply #7130 on: November 22, 2020, 10:23:21 PM »
Lol no. Multiple suits have been dismissed with prejudice or withdrawn by the plaintiffs. Those aren’t coming back in a higher court.

Dismissed with prejudice is a good thing for Trump. The recent PA case was "dismissed with prejudice". That means it can be appealed to a higher court.

https://www.gilmanbedigian.com/can-a-case-be-re-opened-in-maryland

"A case dismissed with prejudice is considered a final judgment and can be appealed to a higher court."

If it was dismissed without prejudice then it couldn't be appealed and Trump would have to amend it in the current court, costing time.

So, incorrect. Dismissed with prejudice means that it can be appealed. Trump's campaign says that they intend to do so on that PA case, and thank Obama's state judge for giving them what they needed.

The lack of evidence of a complaint. Complaints are a matter of public record and every move by the Trump campaign is heavily scrutinized.

Nope. A complaint can be sealed. Many complaints are sealed for various reasons. Doxxing and harassment of witnesses for example.

https://casetext.com/case/under-seal-v-under-seal-11

Quote
[A] sealed complaint leaves the public unaware that a claim has been leveled and that state power has been invoked—and public resources spent—in an effort to resolve the dispute. These considerations indicate that public access to the complaint and other pleadings has a "significant positive role," in the functioning of the judicial process.

There is also such a thing as pre-complaint discovery as well.

https://casetext.com/regulation/pennsylvania-code-rules-and-regulations/title-231-rules-of-civil-procedure/part-i-general/chapter-4000-depositions-and-discovery/rule-40038-pre-complaint-discovery

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231 Pa. Code § 4003.8

Current through Register Vol. 50, No. 45, November 7, 2020

Rule 4003.8 - Pre-Complaint Discovery

(a) A plaintiff may obtain pre-complaint discovery where the information sought is material and necessary to the filing of the complaint and the discovery will not cause unreasonable annoyance, embarrassment, oppression, burden or expense to any person or party.

(b) Upon a motion for protective order or other objection to a plaintiff's pre-complaint discovery, the court may require the plaintiff to state with particularity how the discovery will materially advance the preparation of the complaint. In deciding the motion or other objection, the court shall weigh the importance of the discovery request against the burdens imposed on any person or party from whom the discovery is sought.
« Last Edit: November 22, 2020, 10:44:59 PM by Tom Bishop »

Rama Set

Re: Trump
« Reply #7131 on: November 22, 2020, 11:19:44 PM »
Lol no. Multiple suits have been dismissed with prejudice or withdrawn by the plaintiffs. Those aren’t coming back in a higher court.

Dismissed with prejudice is a good thing for Trump. The recent PA case was "dismissed with prejudice". That means it can be appealed to a higher court.

https://www.gilmanbedigian.com/can-a-case-be-re-opened-in-maryland

"A case dismissed with prejudice is considered a final judgment and can be appealed to a higher court."

You can appeal the dismissal if the dismissal was involuntary.

Quote
If it was dismissed without prejudice then it couldn't be appealed and Trump would have to amend it in the current court, costing time.

This is incorrect. In this case, there is really nothing to appeal.  You are free to refile the suit.

Quote
Trump's campaign says that they intend to do so on that PA case, and thank Obama's state judge for giving them what they needed.

I literally don't care what Giuliani says in a press conference.  He has demonstrated a willingness to massively misrepresent his claims to the press.

Quote
Nope. A complaint can be sealed. Many complaints are sealed for various reasons. Doxxing and harassment of witnesses for example.

https://casetext.com/case/under-seal-v-under-seal-11

Quote
[A] sealed complaint leaves the public unaware that a claim has been leveled and that state power has been invoked—and public resources spent—in an effort to resolve the dispute. These considerations indicate that public access to the complaint and other pleadings has a "significant positive role," in the functioning of the judicial process.

Bit of a hail mary there, Bom.  But hey, its all you have.

Quote
There is also such a thing as pre-complaint discovery as well.

https://casetext.com/regulation/pennsylvania-code-rules-and-regulations/title-231-rules-of-civil-procedure/part-i-general/chapter-4000-depositions-and-discovery/rule-40038-pre-complaint-discovery

Quote
231 Pa. Code § 4003.8

Current through Register Vol. 50, No. 45, November 7, 2020

Rule 4003.8 - Pre-Complaint Discovery

(a) A plaintiff may obtain pre-complaint discovery where the information sought is material and necessary to the filing of the complaint and the discovery will not cause unreasonable annoyance, embarrassment, oppression, burden or expense to any person or party.

(b) Upon a motion for protective order or other objection to a plaintiff's pre-complaint discovery, the court may require the plaintiff to state with particularity how the discovery will materially advance the preparation of the complaint. In deciding the motion or other objection, the court shall weigh the importance of the discovery request against the burdens imposed on any person or party from whom the discovery is sought.
Riiiight.

Anyone want to hazzard a guess why the Trump legal team wants to distance themselves from Syndey Powell at this time?



On November 14th Trump said she was part of the team.
« Last Edit: November 22, 2020, 11:31:30 PM by Rama Set »

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Offline stack

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Re: Trump
« Reply #7132 on: November 23, 2020, 01:23:48 AM »
Lol no. Multiple suits have been dismissed with prejudice or withdrawn by the plaintiffs. Those aren’t coming back in a higher court.

Dismissed with prejudice is a good thing for Trump. The recent PA case was "dismissed with prejudice". That means it can be appealed to a higher court.

https://www.gilmanbedigian.com/can-a-case-be-re-opened-in-maryland

"A case dismissed with prejudice is considered a final judgment and can be appealed to a higher court."

You can appeal the dismissal if the dismissal was involuntary.

Quote
If it was dismissed without prejudice then it couldn't be appealed and Trump would have to amend it in the current court, costing time.

This is incorrect. In this case, there is really nothing to appeal.  You are free to refile the suit.

Quote
Trump's campaign says that they intend to do so on that PA case, and thank Obama's state judge for giving them what they needed.

I literally don't care what Giuliani says in a press conference.  He has demonstrated a willingness to massively misrepresent his claims to the press.

Quote
Nope. A complaint can be sealed. Many complaints are sealed for various reasons. Doxxing and harassment of witnesses for example.

https://casetext.com/case/under-seal-v-under-seal-11

Quote
[A] sealed complaint leaves the public unaware that a claim has been leveled and that state power has been invoked—and public resources spent—in an effort to resolve the dispute. These considerations indicate that public access to the complaint and other pleadings has a "significant positive role," in the functioning of the judicial process.

Bit of a hail mary there, Bom.  But hey, its all you have.

Quote
There is also such a thing as pre-complaint discovery as well.

https://casetext.com/regulation/pennsylvania-code-rules-and-regulations/title-231-rules-of-civil-procedure/part-i-general/chapter-4000-depositions-and-discovery/rule-40038-pre-complaint-discovery

Quote
231 Pa. Code § 4003.8

Current through Register Vol. 50, No. 45, November 7, 2020

Rule 4003.8 - Pre-Complaint Discovery

(a) A plaintiff may obtain pre-complaint discovery where the information sought is material and necessary to the filing of the complaint and the discovery will not cause unreasonable annoyance, embarrassment, oppression, burden or expense to any person or party.

(b) Upon a motion for protective order or other objection to a plaintiff's pre-complaint discovery, the court may require the plaintiff to state with particularity how the discovery will materially advance the preparation of the complaint. In deciding the motion or other objection, the court shall weigh the importance of the discovery request against the burdens imposed on any person or party from whom the discovery is sought.
Riiiight.

Anyone want to hazzard a guess why the Trump legal team wants to distance themselves from Syndey Powell at this time?



On November 14th Trump said she was part of the team.

Ahhh, crap, Jenna and Rudy just totally took the wind out of my entertainment sails with that announcement. More of the same:

(Reuters) - U.S. President Donald Trump's election campaign on Sunday distanced itself from Sidney Powell, a lawyer who claimed at a news conference last week that electronic voting systems had switched millions of ballots to President-elect Joe Biden.

"Sidney Powell is practicing law on her own," Trump campaign lawyers Rudy Giuliani and Jenna Ellis said in a statement. "She is not a member of the Trump Legal Team."

Ouch, that's gonna leave a mark.

More dirt from WaPO:

"Two advisers to Trump, who spoke on the condition of anonymity to discuss private conversations, said that the president disliked the coverage Powell was receiving from Fox News host Tucker Carlson and others and that several allies had reached out to say she had gone too far. The advisers also said she fought with Giuliani and others in recent days.

“She was too crazy even for the president,” a campaign official said."

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2020/11/22/giuliani-releases-statement-distancing-trump-campaign-lawyer-sidney-powell/

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Offline J-Man

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Re: Trump
« Reply #7133 on: November 23, 2020, 01:28:57 AM »
BIDEN Admits defeat and DEMS CHEAT !!!

What kind of person would devote endless hours posting scientific facts trying to correct the few retards who believe in the FE? I slay shitty little demons.

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Trump
« Reply #7134 on: November 23, 2020, 01:35:52 AM »
Quote
Sydney Powell fired!

Nope. I would suggest not posting links to liberal news stories and speculation and anonymous sources from "campaign officials".

Sidney Powell was never working for Trump or taking money from him. She's not a lawyer on the record. The press release just clarified this separation to resolve conflict of interest claims.

Sidney Powell's partner:



Attorney Lin Wood, another Trump-affiliated attorney in a position like Powell:



General Flynn:

« Last Edit: November 23, 2020, 01:44:58 AM by Tom Bishop »

Rama Set

Re: Trump
« Reply #7135 on: November 23, 2020, 01:45:58 AM »
Quote
Sydney Powell fired!

Nope. I would suggest not posting links to liberal news stories and speculation and anonymous sources from "campaign officials".

Sidney Powell was never working for Trump. She's not a lawyer on the record. The press release just clarified this separation to resolve conflict of interest claims.

Sidney Powell's partner:



Attorney Lin Wood, another Trump-affiliated attorney in a position like Powell:



General Floyd:



Plenty of conservatives have apprehension too. You understand the confusion when Trump and Giuliani this week said Powell was part of the team. I suppose it was silly to believe words leaving Trump’s thumbs or mouth.

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Offline stack

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Re: Trump
« Reply #7136 on: November 23, 2020, 01:46:20 AM »
Quote
Sydney Powell fired!

Nope. I would suggest not posting links to liberal news stories and speculation and anonymous sources from "campaign officials".

Sidney Powell was never working for Trump. She's not a lawyer on the record. The press release just clarified this separation to resolve conflict of interest claims.

Sidney Powell's partner:



Attorney Lin Wood, another Trump-affiliated attorney in a position like Powell:



General Floyd:



What conflict of interest? Why would they have to make this distinction? Must of been something serious because they had to have known the statement would look like a "distancing".

And does it mean that any lawyer can get up on the Podium with Rudy, claim to be affiliated and talk about the charges they will bring on Trumps behalf? What does "affiliated" mean in this context?

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Offline crutonius

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Re: Trump
« Reply #7137 on: November 23, 2020, 01:50:08 AM »

Anyone want to hazzard a guess why the Trump legal team wants to distance themselves from Syndey Powell at this time?



On November 14th Trump said she was part of the team.

I would say that she does not carry herself with the same quiet dignity and air of respectability that Giuliani does.

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Offline J-Man

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Re: Trump
« Reply #7138 on: November 23, 2020, 02:02:21 AM »
IF U REALLY HAVE TO KNOW !!!

“KRAKEN” is a CIA Hacking Program.....Plausible deniability?

https://gellerreport.com/2020/11/kraken-is-a-cia-hacking-program.html/
What kind of person would devote endless hours posting scientific facts trying to correct the few retards who believe in the FE? I slay shitty little demons.

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Offline J-Man

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Re: Trump
« Reply #7139 on: November 23, 2020, 02:13:58 AM »
From watching some fringe news sites, she talked about many countries the voter records were going to, the RAIDS where machines and docs were in these countries were gotten by our "good guys". The punchline it appears to me will be biblical shake of CIA destroying the voting and deciding the outcomes in not only other countries but Merika.

She seems to be releasing top secret crap that has gone down for DECADES. We been played and screwed.

Now wear your masks and get your vaccines. You're all gonna die !
What kind of person would devote endless hours posting scientific facts trying to correct the few retards who believe in the FE? I slay shitty little demons.