[Roundy]

this is honestly becoming a little sad at this point

I know, the straws that are being grasped. They truly have nothing substantial to hit her with so they keep trying all this nonsense.

[Action80]

The Preamble.

[AATW]

Trump unsurprisingly lying again, this time about that boxer in the Olympics



She is NOT someone who transitioned. She was assigned female at birth and has been brought up as a female.
Now, it does seem possible that she may be genetically male and has some condition which led to her being incorrectly assigned female at birth, there is certainly some doubt about whether she should be competing with females. But its a lie to say that she was a "good male boxer" and has transitioned.

I'll just wait for Tom to come and defend this latest bullshit.

[Lord Dave]

Trump unsurprisingly lying again, this time about that boxer in the Olympics



She is NOT someone who transitioned. She was assigned female at birth and has been brought up as a female.
Now, it does seem possible that she may be genetically male and has some condition which led to her being incorrectly assigned female at birth, there is certainly some doubt about whether she should be competing with females. But its a lie to say that she was a "good male boxer" and has transitioned.

I'll just wait for Tom to come and defend this latest bullshit.

I thought they were trans?  They aren't?

[honk]

Transitioning isn't even legal in Algeria, so of course she isn't trans. There are pictures of her as a young girl with her family, too. Anyway, who the Olympics allow to compete is obviously outside of the president's jurisdiction, so it makes no sense for Trump to be even ranting about this to begin with. He has no interest in or knowledge of actual political issues; all he has is culture war nonsense.

[Rushy]

The Preamble.

Can you point out which part, exactly?

I think it's somewhat funny that you might seriously believe people who just got done warring on the government would then go on to write a document that says "rights only apply to people the government approves to have rights".

I certainly hope there isn't a silly solution to this argument, like supreme court precedents showing the bill of rights applies to any human being in the United States or something like that.

[AATW]

I thought they were trans?  They aren't?

They aren't.

https://edition.cnn.com/2024/08/02/sport/who-is-imane-khelif-olympic-boxer-intl/index.html

[garygreen]

Now, it does seem possible that she may be genetically male and has some condition which led to her being incorrectly assigned female at birth, there is certainly some doubt about whether she should be competing with females.

fyi there is literally no evidence at all that she's anything other than biologically female besides "some russian guy said she's totally a man" after she defeated a russian boxer one time.

[AATW]

Now, it does seem possible that she may be genetically male and has some condition which led to her being incorrectly assigned female at birth, there is certainly some doubt about whether she should be competing with females.

fyi there is literally no evidence at all that she's anything other than biologically female besides "some russian guy said she's totally a man" after she defeated a russian boxer one time.

This is all clear as mud. There was some press conference today which seems to have cleared up precisely nothing.

https://www.bbc.com/sport/olympics/articles/cq5dd2lz8y8o.amp

What is clear though is she was born female, raised female and has competed as a female against other females for years without incident.

She has not “transitioned”. She is not and has never been a “good male boxer”. Trump either lied or, more likely, saw some bullshit online, didn’t bother checking any of it and just parroted it because it plays well with his audience. Which is ironic given how he rails against “fake news”.

[Tom Bishop]

I'm more concerned about the ignorance of biology here than anything about this fight. You lie to yourself about how race works, and biology too. In this case you similarly appear to think that people can choose their own biology.

Trump is correct that the person transitioned by calling themselves female. The primary key to sexuality is genetics, not genitalia.  If you have XY chromosomes then you are biologically male. If you have XY chromosomes and are born with female genitalia, then you are a biological male born with a physiological mutation. If your parents dress you as a stereotypical female as a child due to that, that makes them mistaken.

Considering that this person knew that they had XY chromosomes, and proceeded to represent themselves as female, they therefore transitioned to their preferred social construct gender.

For your argument to work, you would have to argue that genitalia matters more than the primary genetic distinction between male and female that is inherent in all cells with chromosomes, which is laughable, to say the least.

[garygreen]

i mean if you wanna simply take some dude's word for it that she totally has XY chromosomes, then sure, hold that belief. that's the level of skepticism we've all come to expect from you at this point anyway.

[Tom Bishop]

i mean if you wanna simply take some dude's word for it that she totally has XY chromosomes, then sure, hold that belief. that's the level of skepticism we've all come to expect from you at this point anyway.

I don't think that World Championship organizations are disqualifying people based on "some dude's word". The laboratories were accredited, and the chromosome test repeatedly failed to pass the genetic material as a XX chromosome. That means that she is not genetically female. The chromosomes didn't match against XX and she was disqualified from the world championship.

The "inconclusive" part is that it didn't specifically match against XY either, but the failure against XX was enough to disqualify her. The test told her that she was not a biological female, as we fundamentally define it.

Maybe she has an entirely new genetic sexuality, but that still doesn't make her an XX female, and the argument still applies that she is not one biologically.

[garygreen]

the chromosome test repeatedly failed to pass the genetic material as a XX chromosome.

according to some dude. holler at me if he ever provides any documentation besides "this totally really happened for real, i promise!"

[Action80]

{"We the people of the United States..."}

[AATW]

Maybe she has an entirely new genetic sexuality, but that still doesn't make her an XX female, and the argument still applies that she is not one biologically.

That is possibly true but has not been confirmed. There is a lot of confusion about this. What there is no confusion about is she has never considered herself or been considered male. She was assigned female at birth, brought up as a female and competed as a female.

Trump is correct that the person transitioned by calling themselves female.

This is a lie. Trump is lying. You are lying. You are either trolling or once again trying to win the Olympic Mental Gymnastics by distorting reality until you can reconcile it with your cult leader's lies. Either way it's embarrassing. She did not "call herself" female. She was born apparently female, has always considered herself and been considered female. She has never competed as a male. Trump saying she was a "good male boxer" is simply untrue. Saying she has transitioned is simply untrue. If you don't know what the word "transitioned" means then don't use it.

Considering that this person knew that they had XY chromosomes

She didn't. And it's far from clear whether this is even true. It has been claimed but the results of that test have not been released.

Let me tell you what has actually happened here. There has been a lot of disinformation about this case. Trump has seen some of it, it feeds into his own bigotry and that of his cult following. So instead of bothering to actually check the facts he just regurgitates a load of lies. Which, again, is ironic given how much he pretends to care about "fake news".
And his cult following lap it up and rather than dealing with the cognitive dissonance of admitting to themselves that their cult leader repeatedly lies to them they try and bend reality itself to fit what Trump says.

[Lord Dave]

Also, as was said here, this boxer is from Alergia, which bans transgenders.  So how, Tom, would she transition and be in the Olympics if she's from a country that bans it?

[Tom Bishop]

She was banned from a world championship because she was not a woman, via repeated xx chromosome tests. She knew that she was not a woman, yet continued to call herself one. Therefore she socially transitioned into something that was not her biological sex.

You could possibly say that she transitioned unknowingly prior to the test if you want, but after the testing she transitioned knowingly. The main point is that if you are not a biological woman and call yourself one, it is a transition from your biological sex, as the terms are used.

It doesn't matter what her parents told her what her biological sex was when she was a child. Nor does it matter what she thought she was as a child. They were wrong. Those people dont decide biological sex. All that matters is what the biological testing shows.

Breaking Algerian law to the blind eye of prosecutors is also not the best argument. Prosecutors generally have too much on their plate to go around prosecuting everyone.

[Roundy]

She was banned from a world championship because she was not a woman, via repeated xx chromosome tests. She knew that she was not a woman, yet continued to call herself one. Therefore she socially transitioned into something that was not her biological sex.

Jesus, does it hurt being such an idiot?

[AATW]

She was banned from a world championship because she was not a woman, via repeated xx chromosome tests.

That has been claimed, but not verified in any way.
The test results have not been released and during a chaotic press conference yesterday, intended to clear things up, the claim was repeated but no evidence was provided.

She knew that she was not a woman, yet continued to call herself one.

This is a lie.
Continuing to lie about something doesn't make it true.

You are lying, but on reflection I don't think Trump is. He just doesn't know or care what is true. He saw some disinformation about this which pandered to his bigotry and he knew would play well with his bigoted cult. So he parroted it and his cult members lapped it up and continue to even when presented with the actual facts.

[Lord Dave]

Tom loves fakes news, it seems.  And Alternative Facts.