*

Offline Tom Bishop

  • Zetetic Council Member
  • **
  • Posts: 9104
  • Flat Earth Believer
    • View Profile
Re: Coronavirus Vaccine and You
« Reply #1120 on: October 17, 2021, 12:14:07 AM »
The lawyer says that they violated federal law by not releasing it right here:

https://aaronsiri.substack.com/p/scientists-sue-the-fda-for-data-it

Why has the FDA, weeks after the filing of a federal lawsuit, still not agreed to timely release this data?  Why does the FDA persist in delaying its release when even federal law states that, once licensed, the “data and information in the biological product file [for the licensed vaccine] are immediately available for public disclosure.

Where did the FDA claim that they were not in violation of the law on this matter?

What's the definition of immediate?

*

Offline stack

  • *
  • Posts: 2403
    • View Profile
Re: Coronavirus Vaccine and You
« Reply #1121 on: October 17, 2021, 12:30:35 AM »
The lawyer says that they violated federal law by not releasing it right here:

https://aaronsiri.substack.com/p/scientists-sue-the-fda-for-data-it

Why has the FDA, weeks after the filing of a federal lawsuit, still not agreed to timely release this data?  Why does the FDA persist in delaying its release when even federal law states that, once licensed, the “data and information in the biological product file [for the licensed vaccine] are immediately available for public disclosure.

Where did the FDA claim that they were not in violation of the law on this matter?

What's the definition of immediate?

And the lawyer for the FDA says, "I have determined that your request for expedited processing does not meet the criteria under the FOIA. You have not demonstrated a compelling need that involves an imminent threat to the life or physical safety of an individual. Neither have you demonstrated that there exists an urgency to inform the public concerning actual or alleged Federal Government activity. Therefore, I am denying your request for expedited processing."

This above taken from your affidavit.

So one lawyer says "they violated federal law by not releasing it", and the FDA lawyer(s) say bollocks to that.

So what's your point? Why does your lawyer have more credibility in your eyes as opposed to the FDA lawyer(s)? And in answering that question, who are you to answer it? Are you a lawyer? Are you expert in FDA laws and regulations? Why are you interpreting one way or the other in this case? What expertise do you bring to the table?

*

Offline Tom Bishop

  • Zetetic Council Member
  • **
  • Posts: 9104
  • Flat Earth Believer
    • View Profile
Re: Coronavirus Vaccine and You
« Reply #1122 on: October 17, 2021, 12:39:06 AM »
Incorrect. That's talking about the FIOA request which said that the request was urgent. The FDA acknowledged that they had the information, but claimed it wasn't urgent.

This is not a claim that they didn't violate the specific law referenced. This is separate issue entirely. There is a federal law that states that it must be immediately available upon licensing. It is referenced in the lawsuit as well. Is there a specific response to this law by the FDA?

No, there is not. You are unable to even find a denial on this matter.

*

Offline stack

  • *
  • Posts: 2403
    • View Profile
Re: Coronavirus Vaccine and You
« Reply #1123 on: October 17, 2021, 01:03:00 AM »
Incorrect. That's talking about the FIOA request which said that the request was urgent. The FDA acknowledged that they had the information, but claimed it wasn't urgent.

They determined that whatever the request was, was not urgent. Regardless of whether they had "information" or not. Just that a request was not deemed to be actionable.
It's your interpretation that they have stuff they are "withholding" from you. Just because you ask for something doesn't mean you will get it in the timeframe you asked for it. Are you a lawyer, an expert? Is your interpretation founded on your expertise in the matter?

Again, one lawyer says they should get X. Another lawyer says not in your timeframe. Who is right? Which lawyer? Are you equipped to say who is right?

This is not a claim that they didn't violate the specific law referenced. This is separate issue entirely. There is a federal law that states that it must be immediately available upon licensing. It is referenced in the lawsuit as well. Is there a specific response to this law by the FDA?

No, there is not. You are unable to even find a denial on this matter.

Did you look into the link I sent you regarding FDA Regulations? And how there are caveats regarding disseminating their findings? Subsequent to "immediately available upon licensing." There's a whole bunch of stuff around proprietary info, disclosures, etc. Again, you cherry pick one line in a regulatory document and leave out a whole host of context around it.

As evidenced by all of your other efforts to assert affidavits as proof of something, you're batting about .000%.

*

Offline Tom Bishop

  • Zetetic Council Member
  • **
  • Posts: 9104
  • Flat Earth Believer
    • View Profile
Re: Coronavirus Vaccine and You
« Reply #1124 on: October 17, 2021, 04:55:27 PM »
Quote from: stack
Again, one lawyer says they should get X. Another lawyer says not in your timeframe. Who is right? Which lawyer? Are you equipped to say who is right?

The FDA didn't address the law in question. They was responding to the expedited FOIA request, arguing that it didn't need to be an urgent request, which is a separate matter about the nature of that FOIA request and not whether the FDA violated the law in August when the vaccine was licensed.

Quote from: stack
Did you look into the link I sent you regarding FDA Regulations? And how there are caveats regarding disseminating their findings? Subsequent to "immediately available upon licensing." There's a whole bunch of stuff around proprietary info, disclosures, etc. Again, you cherry pick one line in a regulatory document and leave out a whole host of context around it.

Incorrect. I did not point out the line in the regulatory document. The lawyer did. The lawyer is an expert at the law and you are not.

You believe that there may be regulatory hoops which allows the government to withhold the safety data for the products it licenses from the public. You are not a lawyer, however. You have no source for this information and must refer to yourself as the source, and admit that it is based on "I have no idea". On the other hand we have a lawyer who has studied the law for many years and can give his expert opinion on what it means. Why should we think that you are an equally qualified source which must be given equal weight?

Here we have another instance of you absurdly trying to use unqualified individuals to contradict qualified individuals.
« Last Edit: October 17, 2021, 06:30:19 PM by Tom Bishop »

*

Offline Rama Set

  • *
  • Posts: 8705
  • Round and round...
    • View Profile
Re: Coronavirus Vaccine and You
« Reply #1125 on: October 17, 2021, 05:24:31 PM »
The FDA is not withholding anything. The FOIA request is in process.
Th*rk is the worst person on this website.

*

Offline Tom Bishop

  • Zetetic Council Member
  • **
  • Posts: 9104
  • Flat Earth Believer
    • View Profile
Re: Coronavirus Vaccine and You
« Reply #1126 on: October 17, 2021, 05:44:03 PM »
Look up the definition of public disclosure.

The lawyer said:

https://aaronsiri.substack.com/p/scientists-sue-the-fda-for-data-it

Why has the FDA, weeks after the filing of a federal lawsuit, still not agreed to timely release this data?  Why does the FDA persist in delaying its release when even federal law states that, once licensed, the “data and information in the biological product file [for the licensed vaccine] are immediately available for public disclosure.

Definition for public disclosure:

https://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/dictionary/english/public-disclosure



Look up the definition for immediately:

https://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/dictionary/english/immediately

« Last Edit: October 17, 2021, 05:50:57 PM by Tom Bishop »

*

Offline stack

  • *
  • Posts: 2403
    • View Profile
Re: Coronavirus Vaccine and You
« Reply #1127 on: October 17, 2021, 06:07:12 PM »
Law definitions of 'immediately'

immediately
adv. 1) at once. 2) in orders of the court or in contracts it means "as soon as can be done" without excuse.

Immediately (law)
Courts have used immediately to mean "Promptly, with expedition, with reasonable haste consistent with fair business activity." 46 Am J1st Sales § 163.
Courts, looking at the substance of contracts and statutes, have, during the last two centuries, repeatedly declared that the word "immediately," although in strictness it excludes all meantimes, yet to make good the deeds and intents of the parties, it shall be construed "such convenient time as is reasonably requisite for doing the thing." Anno: 16 ALR 609.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immediately_(law)

Re: Coronavirus Vaccine and You
« Reply #1128 on: October 17, 2021, 07:11:39 PM »
Holy shit.
It’s genuinely incredible how much pointless debate Tom can spin out of the slightest semantic subtlety.
It’s baffling that people continue to engage with it.

It’s clear this request is being dealt with.
It’s equally clear that the only dispute is whether it’s a request they should expedite. That’s about it.
"On a very clear and chilly day it is possible to see Lighthouse Beach from Lovers Point and vice versa...Upon looking into the telescope I can see children running in and out of the water, splashing and playing. I can see people sun bathing at the shore
- An excerpt from the account of the Bishop Experiment. My emphasis

*

Offline Tom Bishop

  • Zetetic Council Member
  • **
  • Posts: 9104
  • Flat Earth Believer
    • View Profile
Re: Coronavirus Vaccine and You
« Reply #1129 on: October 17, 2021, 07:21:45 PM »
Holy shit.
It’s genuinely incredible how much pointless debate Tom can spin out of the slightest semantic subtlety.
It’s baffling that people continue to engage with it.

It’s clear this request is being dealt with.
It’s equally clear that the only dispute is whether it’s a request they should expedite. That’s about it.

The lawyer says that federal law states that it should have become immediately available when it was licensed. Are you a lawyer? Please answer with only a yes or no.

Re: Coronavirus Vaccine and You
« Reply #1130 on: October 17, 2021, 07:50:10 PM »
The lawyer says that federal law states that it should have become immediately available when it was licensed.
And stack has provided the legal definition of what that means.
And a different lawyer - who is also a lawyer - is saying that there is no need to expedite this request. It’s interesting how selectively you regard people’s qualifications as significant depending on whether they say something which fits your agenda.

Quote
Are you a lawyer? Please answer with only a yes or no.

No.

Are you?
"On a very clear and chilly day it is possible to see Lighthouse Beach from Lovers Point and vice versa...Upon looking into the telescope I can see children running in and out of the water, splashing and playing. I can see people sun bathing at the shore
- An excerpt from the account of the Bishop Experiment. My emphasis

*

Offline Tom Bishop

  • Zetetic Council Member
  • **
  • Posts: 9104
  • Flat Earth Believer
    • View Profile
Re: Coronavirus Vaccine and You
« Reply #1131 on: October 17, 2021, 09:34:43 PM »
The lawyer says that federal law states that it should have become immediately available when it was licensed.
And stack has provided the legal definition of what that means.
And a different lawyer - who is also a lawyer - is saying that there is no need to expedite this request. It’s interesting how selectively you regard people’s qualifications as significant depending on whether they say something which fits your agenda.

That's talking about the FOIA request for the information. According to FOIA a FOIA request can be expedited if there is urgency. The FDA disagreed that the FOIA request for the information was urgent, but said nothing about whether they broke the law by not making the information available for public disclosure at the time the vaccine was licensed in August.

Quote from: AllAroundTheWorld
Quote from: Tom Bishop
Are you a lawyer? Please answer with only a yes or no.
No.

Are you?

The lawyer who made the lawsuit is a lawyer. The lawyer says that federal law states that it should have become immediately available when it was licensed.

https://aaronsiri.substack.com/p/scientists-sue-the-fda-for-data-it

Why has the FDA, weeks after the filing of a federal lawsuit, still not agreed to timely release this data?  Why does the FDA persist in delaying its release when even federal law states that, once licensed, the “data and information in the biological product file [for the licensed vaccine] are immediately available for public disclosure.”
« Last Edit: October 17, 2021, 10:08:09 PM by Tom Bishop »

*

Offline stack

  • *
  • Posts: 2403
    • View Profile
Re: Coronavirus Vaccine and You
« Reply #1132 on: October 17, 2021, 10:59:36 PM »

Why has the FDA, weeks after the filing of a federal lawsuit, still not agreed to timely release this data?  Why does the FDA persist in delaying its release when even federal law states that, once licensed, the “data and information in the biological product file [for the licensed vaccine] are immediately available for public disclosure.”

Sure looks like the law definition of ‘immediately’ as referenced above has been applied by the FDA. In essence the Fed law you reference reads like this:

“data and information in the biological product file are available for public disclosure at such convenient time as is reasonably requisite for doing the thing.”

Or perhaps:

“data and information in the biological product file are available as soon as can be done for public disclosure.”

*

Offline Tom Bishop

  • Zetetic Council Member
  • **
  • Posts: 9104
  • Flat Earth Believer
    • View Profile
Re: Coronavirus Vaccine and You
« Reply #1133 on: October 18, 2021, 01:55:27 AM »
Five lawyers who think that a two week delay is not "immediately":

https://www.avvo.com/legal-answers/is-there-a-legal-definition-of--immediately---2018777.html











« Last Edit: October 18, 2021, 02:11:41 AM by Tom Bishop »

*

Offline Rama Set

  • *
  • Posts: 8705
  • Round and round...
    • View Profile
Re: Coronavirus Vaccine and You
« Reply #1134 on: October 18, 2021, 02:03:11 AM »
It would be great if you could stick to the topic and not refer to people providing payment.
Th*rk is the worst person on this website.

*

Offline stack

  • *
  • Posts: 2403
    • View Profile
Re: Coronavirus Vaccine and You
« Reply #1135 on: October 18, 2021, 05:35:52 AM »
Five lawyers who think that a two week delay is not "immediately":

https://www.avvo.com/legal-answers/is-there-a-legal-definition-of--immediately---2018777.html

Instead of going with your ambulance chasers, a bankruptcy lawyer, and a divorce lawyer, I'll go with actual case law:

So just in terms of dictionary definitions, immediately looks very much like promptly. And this similarity becomes more pronounced when you look at the caselaw, which indicates that just like promptly, immediately is subject to a reasonableness standard. Here are some representative cases:

- Dwoskin v. Rollins, Inc., 634 F.2d 285, 294 (5th Cir. 1981) (stating that “several Georgia cases arising in a variety of contexts suggest that immediate delivery means performance with reasonable diligence concerning the circumstances”).
- East Texas Medical Center Regional Healthcare System v. Lexington Insurance Co., No. 6:04‑CV‑165, 2007 U.S. Dist. LEXIS 50613, at *19 n.10 (E.D. Tex. July 12, 2007) (“Texas courts interpret ‘as soon as practicable’ and ‘immediately’ to mean ‘within a reasonable time under the circumstances.'”).
- Briggs Ave, LLC v. Ins. Corp. of Hanover, 05 Civ. 4212, 2006 U.S. Dist. LEXIS 34854, at *14 N.3 (S.D.N.Y. May 30, 2006) (“In any event, there is little or no functional difference between terms like ‘immediately’ or ‘as soon as practicable’; whatever language a policy uses to limit the time for notice, the touchstone is always the same, reasonableness under the circumstances.”).
- Martinez v. Dist. 1199J Nat’l Union of Hosp. & Health Care Employees, 280 F. Supp. 2d 342, 353 (D.N.J. 2003) (“The Court finds that ‘immediately prior’ means that a reasonable amount of time would pass between eligibility for health coverage with the Fund and the start of unemployment.”).
- Sunshine Textile Services, Inc. v. American Employers’ Insurance Company, No. 4:CV-95-0699, 1997 U.S. Dist. LEXIS 22904, at *7 (M.D. Pa. May 12,1997) (“The requirement of notice ‘as soon as practicable’ or ‘immediately’ both prescribe notice within a reasonable amount of time under the circumstances after learning of the occurrence, taking into account the exercise of due diligence.”).

*

Offline Tom Bishop

  • Zetetic Council Member
  • **
  • Posts: 9104
  • Flat Earth Believer
    • View Profile
Re: Coronavirus Vaccine and You
« Reply #1136 on: October 18, 2021, 06:29:18 AM »
Actually, all those people went to law school and deal in the law and know what immediately means.

Even the website you copy and pasted that from says that immediately means expeditious.

https://www.adamsdrafting.com/promptly-and-immediately/



The author ends the article by recommending to use immediately when there is a real sense of urgency:



If there is a real sense of urgency, according to that author, you should use "immediately" in contracts.

In the above Service Provider example a "reasonable amount of time" for that action may be just the amount of time it takes to suspend the account of the User, or to perform the action demanded, and does not signify any delay or lessening of urgency.
« Last Edit: October 18, 2021, 06:53:18 AM by Tom Bishop »

*

Offline stack

  • *
  • Posts: 2403
    • View Profile
Re: Coronavirus Vaccine and You
« Reply #1137 on: October 18, 2021, 06:59:51 AM »
In the case of your five lawyers talking about the immediacy of landlord payment (a far cry from federal law regarding drug/vaccine regulatory disclosure turnarounds) kind of gave vague answers. I mean 2 weeks was not immediate enough to pay a landlord. What about one week? One day? One hour?

And So what regarding urgency? A real sense of urgency is defined as….? And defined by whom?
The FDA can define their sense of “urgency”. And they can cite case law as to “the reasonableness of the circumstances.”

Perhaps looking at the timelines of other approved drugs/vaccines by the FDA would give a sense as to what their normal turnaround is. Aka, what is their normal reasonableness of circumstances?

*

Offline Rushy

  • Planar Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 7543
    • View Profile
Re: Coronavirus Vaccine and You
« Reply #1138 on: October 19, 2021, 12:05:40 AM »
I had to get the vaccine. The clock is ticking. I can feel the devil trying to grab my soul.

*

Offline J-Man

  • *
  • Posts: 944
    • View Profile
Re: Coronavirus Vaccine and You
« Reply #1139 on: October 19, 2021, 01:18:14 AM »
I had to get the vaccine. The clock is ticking. I can feel the devil trying to grab my soul.

Drink blood it might kill the trans-humanism life in you now. Congrats !
https://rumble.com/vnpgtf-dr.-carrie-madej-why-is-rna-modifying-transhumanism-nano-technology-inside-.html
What kind of person would devote endless hours posting scientific facts trying to correct the few retards who believe in the FE? I slay shitty little demons.