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Offline stack

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Revolution
« on: October 11, 2018, 11:16:43 PM »
Ronj got me thinking about it. If there really was a benefit to FET, then it would revolutionize the world as we know it. Albeit, lot’s of industry would fight tooth and nail against it. But at a minimum, if FET could take on navigation, shipping, transit, movement of any sort the world would be inexplicably altered to such an extent that the first, second, third and beyond to do so would profit beyond their wildest imaginations. Why nothing?

Consider Silicon Valley, the supreme worldwide order for ‘disruption’ to what is given. Why no startups disrupting commerce with FET ‘short-cuts’? Why no anti-SpaceX, "we can do it cheaper without the necessity for ‘satellites’ launching rockets"? Why nothing?

If FET had promise, endeavoring enterprises would build a profit on its backbone, it’s their nature, yet there is literally nothing.

FET defies the pure and simple logic of a money-maker. Sad that that’s what it comes down to. But in the absence of FET being a profit center it seems that, at a minimum, RET seems more fitting to how the world functions and how it functions well, better than anything FET has to offer.

Curiosity File

Re: Revolution
« Reply #1 on: October 11, 2018, 11:32:00 PM »
I've thought the same thing since the first days I heard such an idea existed.
The first person/s that proved the earth was flat would be instant multi billionaires.
The nature of humans beings wanting to be rich, people with a lot of money would have already been out looking for that hard physical proof and seized that opportunity to exploit that. I'm sure there have been many people investigating that very possibility to no end. Just think how the cruise ship industry would flourish. Come jump on the boat and take cruise the the edge of the Earth.   

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Offline stack

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Re: Revolution
« Reply #2 on: October 12, 2018, 12:29:11 AM »
It kind of comes down to a “show me the money” argument. If FET offered anything in the way of monetary expansion, it would have been or would be exploited. Aside from clicks and ‘subs’ on youtube, I have yet to see where FET would make our lives more beneficial, lucrative. A super ‘meta' argument, but not without merit - As to date, a flat earth does not provide the worlds pinions and gears of any better movement than what we already have in RET. It doesn’t make FET wrong, just less optimized and there's a reason for that.

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Revolution
« Reply #3 on: October 12, 2018, 04:47:05 AM »
AM Radio

Unlike FM Radio which is more affected and limited by the atmosphere, AM Radio can propagate further than than the curvature of the earth should allow.

Profit: Tens of Billions of Dollars Annually

Stratellite Industry

A number of companies offer cheaper versions of satellite services in the form of high altitude dirigibles.

Profit: Tens of Millions Annually

Radar Companies

Several companies, mostly government contractors, offer products allowing one to bounce radar signals off of bodies that are beyond the horizon.

Profit: Tens of Millions

Troposcatter Communications Companies

Several companies offer technologies that broadcast a signal against the upper atmosphere, which can communicate with a far away receiver that is pointed at that spot in the sky.

Profit: Unknown Millions

Missile Systems

Many government contractors are building missiles that are, according to various documents and testimonials, built to operate with the assumption of a Flat Earth.

Profit: Untold Billions

Fighter Jets

Many government contractors are, according to various military documents and testimonials, creating jets which are built to operate with the assumption of a Flat Earth.

Profit: Untold Billions

NOAA Hurricane Early Warning System

NOAA is now using predictive models which do not require the Coriolis Effect for the better prediction of hurricanes and tropical cyclones.

Profit: Possibly Human Lives

Re: Revolution
« Reply #4 on: October 12, 2018, 05:00:58 AM »
AM Radio

Unlike FM Radio which is more affected and limited by the atmosphere, AM Radio can propagate further than than the curvature of the earth should allow.

Profit: Tens of Billions of Dollars Annually

Stratellite Industry

A number of companies offer cheaper versions of satellite services in the form of high altitude dirigibles.

Profit: Tens of Millions Annually

Radar Companies

Several companies, mostly government contractors, offer products allowing one to bounce radar signals off of bodies that are beyond the horizon.

Profit: Tens of Millions

Troposcatter Communications Companies

Several companies offer technologies that broadcast a signal against the upper atmosphere, which can communicate with a far away receiver that is pointed at that spot in the sky.

Profit: Unknown Millions

Missile Systems

Many government contractors are building missiles that are, according to various documents and testimonials, built to operate with the assumption of a Flat Earth.

Profit: Untold Billions

Fighter Jets

Many government contractors are, according to various military documents and testimonials, creating jets which are built to operate with the assumption of a Flat Earth.

Profit: Untold Billions

NOAA Hurricane Early Warning System

NOAA is now using predictive models which do not require the Coriolis Effect for the better prediction of hurricanes and tropical cyclones.

Profit: Possibly Human Lives
Details of stratellites please and explain how satellite tv works.

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Offline stack

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Re: Revolution
« Reply #5 on: October 12, 2018, 06:27:49 AM »
AM Radio

Unlike FM Radio which is more affected and limited by the atmosphere, AM Radio can propagate further than than the curvature of the earth should allow.

Profit: Tens of Billions of Dollars Annually

Hardly revolutionized by FET. Citation requested that AM radio can propagate further than a curved earth should allow.

Stratellite Industry

A number of companies offer cheaper versions of satellite services in the form of high altitude dirigibles.

Profit: Tens of Millions Annually

I couldn’t find a number of companies. I found one, Sanswire, and they have yet to put one into operation. Ironically, their proposed dirigible design uses GPS (satellites) to navigate.
So unless you can cite evidence, your "Profit: Tens of Millions Annually” is a false statement.

Radar Companies

Several companies, mostly government contractors, offer products allowing one to bounce radar signals off of bodies that are beyond the horizon.

Profit: Tens of Millions

Hardly revolutionized by FET. Works just as well on a round earth. And, presumably, on a flat earth they wouldn't need to bounce anything.

Troposcatter Communications Companies

Several companies offer technologies that broadcast a signal against the upper atmosphere, which can communicate with a far away receiver that is pointed at that spot in the sky.

Profit: Unknown Millions

Again, not flat earth centric. Works just as well on a round earth.

Missile Systems

Many government contractors are building missiles that are, according to various documents and testimonials, built to operate with the assumption of a Flat Earth.

Profit: Untold Billions

Untrue. Citation requested. As in the production of the many various documents and testimonials from "many government contractors".

Fighter Jets

Many government contractors are, according to various military documents and testimonials, creating jets which are built to operate with the assumption of a Flat Earth.

Profit: Untold Billions

Untrue. Citation requested. See above.

NOAA Hurricane Early Warning System

NOAA is now using predictive models which do not require the Coriolis Effect for the better prediction of hurricanes and tropical cyclones.

Profit: Possibly Human Lives

Baffled by this one. Did they recently stop requiring the Coriolis Effect? If so, when? And when did they previously start requiring it? Citation requested. 

Mysfit

Re: Revolution
« Reply #6 on: October 12, 2018, 01:16:58 PM »
Aside from clicks and ‘subs’ on youtube, I have yet to see where FET would make our lives more beneficial, lucrative.
A flat earth theory could help to unlock so many mysteries of the world and simplify the development of so much technology.
Bouncing signals off the sky could reach the other side of the world. A bit garbled, but that will just require ingenuity to fix (TV ain't so fuzzy these days). How far does AM radio go?

It is exciting, but I cannot seem to enthuse the flat folk. I'll keep at it.
I hear Baby Thork has an engineering degree, so he is prime placed to help.

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Offline RonJ

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Re: Revolution
« Reply #7 on: October 12, 2018, 02:40:06 PM »
A good place to start would be to produce an accurate flat earth chart.  We always used the United States WGS 84 and British Admiralty charts for navigation.  The WGS 84 charts are based upon the earth being a oblate spheroid.
The British charts are Mercator projection charts.  Those charts greatly distort the actual shape of the land masses on the earth.  Any course that we follow from China to the United States is always a curved one and we have to steer a different heading every day.  A good flat earth chart would have the shortest distance between any two points on the earth as a perfectly straight line.  Such a chart should be easier to produce as well.  The grid lines of latitude and longitude should be easy to produce on a flat plane.  The well known arctic and antarctic circles would also have to be accurately depicted.  It is well know by the Alaskan people that they are the home of the 'midnight sun'.  A simple trip to a place like Kotzebue, Alaska would confirm that the sun never sets and never rises there at certain times of the year.  Years ago my father and mother flew a small Cessna 182 from Iowa to Katzebue so  I know that it can be done.  Radio communications has changed a lot in the last 30 years as so many people use cell phones for communications.  Most TV reception is received either by cable or satellite dish.  However many companies still heavily depend on microwave communications to transmit data from point to point.  The antennas used are usually on top of tall, expensive, towers. Good line of site communications over long distances by microwaves should be possible with much shorter, and cheaper, towers.  I see a great business opportunity there as well.  If I were 50 years younger I would sure be tempted to investigate a golden opportunity like this.
You can lead flat earthers to the curve but you can't make them think!

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Revolution
« Reply #8 on: October 13, 2018, 05:01:31 AM »
Stack, everything I said is true.

Per stratellites, I was thinking more about Google's Project Loon and the government's stratellite and pseudolite projects.

https://loon.co/

"Loon is a network of stratospheric balloons designed to bring Internet connectivity to rural and remote communities worldwide."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loon_(company)

From the timeline we see that Loon has already signed contracts with several countries. While they do not release numbers, we can expect it to be in the millions.

Related Article: Google thinks its internet balloons could be a $10 billion business

WorldView is another company with existing contracts:

http://www.bbc.com/future/story/20180604-the-new-lighter-than-air-race-for-space

Quote
World View, based in Tucson, plan to use their balloons, known as Stratollites, not just as communications relays, but also as surveillance platforms. BBC Future visited their facility back in 2016.

“Applications are endless, from persistently monitoring forests to notifying first responders when a fire sparks, to watching remote parts of the ocean for maritime piracy, to real-time monitoring of crop health," says World View’s Angelica DeLuccia Morrissey.

Three years ago World View looked like a dream, but after a series of increasingly ambitious test flights, the company has government contracts and commercial customers.

Per the government's stratellite and pseudolite research, see this article:

http://www.scielo.br/scielo.php?script=sci_arttext&pid=S2175-91462016000300249

The government has likely already spent over a hundred million dollars on these technologies, and have successfully deployed them for special operations.
« Last Edit: October 13, 2018, 06:50:27 AM by Tom Bishop »

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Offline stack

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Re: Revolution
« Reply #9 on: October 13, 2018, 06:43:44 AM »
Stack, everything I said is true.

Per stratellites, I was thinking more about Google's Project Loon and the government's stratellite and pseudolite projects.

https://loon.co/

"Loon is a network of stratospheric balloons designed to bring Internet connectivity to rural and remote communities worldwide."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loon_(company)

From the timeline we see that Loon has already signed contracts with several countries. While they do not release numbers, we can expect it to be in the millions.

Related Article: Google thinks its internet balloons could be a $10 billion business

WorldView is another company with existing contracts:

http://www.bbc.com/future/story/20180604-the-new-lighter-than-air-race-for-space

Quote
World View, based in Tucson, plan to use their balloons, known as Stratollites, not just as communications relays, but also as surveillance platforms. BBC Future visited their facility back in 2016.

“Applications are endless, from persistently monitoring forests to notifying first responders when a fire sparks, to watching remote parts of the ocean for maritime piracy, to real-time monitoring of crop health," says World View’s Angelica DeLuccia Morrissey.

Three years ago World View looked like a dream, but after a series of increasingly ambitious test flights, the company has government contracts and commercial customers.

Per the government's stratellite and pseudolite research, see this article:

http://www.scielo.br/scielo.php?script=sci_arttext&pid=S2175-91462016000300249

The government has likely already spent over a hundred of million of dollars on these technologies, and have successfully deployed them for special operations.

Yes, there have been various HAPs programs for decades, but really none except for Project Loon have gotten anywhere.

But that's not the point. The point is none of this has anything to do with FET, nor RET, for that matter. Project Loon wasn't created b/c Google thinks "RET is a lie and there are no satellites b/c space travel doesn't exist". Loon is a way to more cheaply deliver internet access in areas underserved by satellite and ground based infrastructure. And make money doing it.

The larger point is that FET would absolutely revolutionize navigation, shipping, transportation, etc., but as it stands, I can't seem to find a single industry or technology that is predicated on FET and one that bests those industries or technologies that base at least a portion of their monetization on RET. Easy example, think fuel consumption in the airline industry.

Now that we got that squared away, how about all the other truths you mentioned?

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Offline RonJ

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Re: Revolution
« Reply #10 on: October 13, 2018, 08:58:19 PM »
No one mentioned the microwave link industry.  A lot of the internet goes intercity via microwave.  Microwave equipment manufacturers claim that you have to factor in the curvature of the earth (among other things) when designing a microwave link.  After all it is a line line of sight technology.  Maybe they are just trying to sell more equipment by claiming that you can only get a certain range between sites if you don't.  It's nice to sell 10 sets of equipment rather than 5 that might only be necessary for a flat earth installation.  You would still have to take natural obstructions into consideration on the flat earth like a tall building that could be in the path.  However, you wouldn't have to consider buying an additional 200 feet (or more) of expensive tower and feedline to overcome that pesky curvature of the earth problem that the sellers of the equipment claim will be needed. Even if you don't build your own tower, and just rent space, most tower owners charge more if you want a higher spot on their tower.  Think cheaper rent.  Could this be a great business opportunity for some young entrepreneur?  Think of the advantage he would have when submitting a competitive bid for a new link. Soon the cellular phone folks will be cranking up the new 5G technology and that should exponentially increase the amount of data flowing around the country. The new 'internet of things (IOT)' will greatly increase the dependency of the 'average Joe' on the internet.  If I were you, I would consider keeping this technology quiet and maybe even look into the patent possibilities.   
You can lead flat earthers to the curve but you can't make them think!