#### Max_Almond

##### Suggested changes to 'Horizon is always at eye level' in the Wiki
« on: May 22, 2018, 09:27:15 PM »
At the minute, the Wiki states:

Quote
"A fact of basic perspective is that the line of the horizon is always at eye level with the observer. This will help us understand how viewing distance works, in addition to the sinking ship effect.

Have you ever noticed that as you climb a mountain the line of the horizon seems to rise with you? This is because the vanishing point is always at eye level with the observer. This is a very basic property of perspective. From a plane or a mountain, however high you ascend - the horizon will rise to your eye level. The next time you climb in altitude study the horizon closely and observe as it rises with your eye level. The horizon will continue to rise with altitude, at eye level with the observer, until there is no more land to see."

However, that's not quite right.

Can I suggest changing it to:

Quote
"A basic fact of perspective is that the vanishing point is always at eye level with the observer. This will help us understand how viewing distance works.

Have you ever noticed that as you climb a mountain the line of the horizon seems to rise with you? It doesn't, but it seems that way because your eyes are naturally drawn to the horizon - there being little else to focus on - and because your brain is unable to detect minute changes in angle. This is a very basic aspect of human biology.

From an airplane or a mountain, however high you ascend, the horizon will always appear to rise to your eye level. But if you measure it, you will see that the horizon is actually somewhat below your eye level - about 3 degrees below, for example, from an airplane at 35,000 feet."
« Last Edit: May 22, 2018, 11:15:55 PM by Max_Almond »

#### Bobby Shafto

• 1390
##### Re: Suggested changes to 'Horizon is always at eye level' in the Wiki
« Reply #1 on: May 22, 2018, 09:51:33 PM »
That edit would contradict Earth is Not a Globe and require reworking of several flat earth arguments. For FE, the plane of the horizon must coincide with the vanishing plane of perspective. It’s a foundational tenet.

#### Pete Svarrior

• e
• Planar Moderator
• 15990
• (◕˽ ◕ ✿)
##### Re: Suggested changes to 'Horizon is always at eye level' in the Wiki
« Reply #2 on: May 22, 2018, 11:10:59 PM »
This is an interesting suggestion, but I can't help but notice the intentional introduction of bias. Perhaps if you propose a more neutral change, I'll consider it seriously? As it stands, you're asking me to include RE hand-waving in a FE wiki. I might be an idiot, but I'm not *that* incompetent.

If we are not speculating then we must assume

#### Max_Almond

##### Re: Suggested changes to 'Horizon is always at eye level' in the Wiki
« Reply #3 on: May 22, 2018, 11:39:41 PM »
Thanks Pete: I shall have a go at producing one that's both factual and inoffensive to the flat earth model.

Cheers.

#### Bobby Shafto

• 1390
##### Re: Suggested changes to 'Horizon is always at eye level' in the Wiki
« Reply #4 on: May 23, 2018, 12:18:13 AM »
Thanks Pete: I shall have a go at producing one that's both factual and inoffensive to the flat earth model.

Cheers.

You really can't write around it since the horizon-at-eye-level is a fundamental claim and a bone of contention.

It's true that a convention in the art world, to convey 3D depth on a 2D medium, the general rule is to place the horizon line at the height of the drawing's perspective. Of course, that's just a convention for horizontal views at typical observer heights. You wouldn't do that if drawing an upward view of skyscrapers or a downward view looking into a well.

There are an infinite number of vanishing planes one could choose to create a perspective representation of depth. The horizon is just one possibility. The question is will that horizon line coincide with the plane of a view looking perpendicular to plumb? The EnaG/FE standard premise is yes. And it's upon that elementary principle that the rationale for horizon phenomena is based. The convex earth explanation for horizon phenomenon is different, completely; and the horizon cannot always be at eye level if the earth's surface is convex.

The claim being falsified doesn't necessarily kill flat earth. It would just need to work out a different explanation for the horizon. But the horizon always remaining at eye level is a killer for a convex surface. Can't happen.

I'm not sure how a rewrite of the wiki could be accomplished without drastically altering several other explanations.

#### edby

• 1214
##### Re: Suggested changes to 'Horizon is always at eye level' in the Wiki
« Reply #5 on: May 23, 2018, 06:58:56 AM »
From an airplane or a mountain, however high you ascend, the horizon will always appear to rise to your eye level. But if you measure it, you will see that the horizon is actually somewhat below your eye level - about 3 degrees below, for example, from an airplane at 35,000 feet."
Could you clarify the meaning of ‘below’ here? I assume it means that the angle between a line from the horizon to the eye, and a line pointing ‘downwards’, is less than 90 degrees?
Also a definition of ‘downwards’ in the wiki would help. We can’t say ‘direction of gravity’ because FE denies gravity. Or does it? How about ‘the direction in which things fall’ or something like that.

 I just noticed 'perpendicular to plumb', which is good definition assuming you understand 'perpendicular' and 'plumb'.

This is an interesting suggestion, but I can't help but notice the intentional introduction of bias. Perhaps if you propose a more neutral change, I'll consider it seriously? As it stands, you're asking me to include RE hand-waving in a FE wiki. I might be an idiot, but I'm not *that* incompetent.

How about: "From an airplane or a mountain, however high you ascend, the horizon will always appear to rise to your eye level. Proponents of the globe earth claim that the horizon is actually somewhat below your eye level, supposedly about 3 degrees from an airplane at 35,000 feet, however this is false".
« Last Edit: May 23, 2018, 07:26:04 AM by edby »