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Offline nickrulercreator

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There is an error in your wiki made by Tom
« on: January 02, 2018, 05:29:46 PM »
I have noticed an error in your wiki on this page: https://wiki.tfes.org/Apollo_Moonbuggy_Problems#Unpacked_Moonbuggy made by Tom Bishop

You claim that the LRV seems to be still packaged in the LM, yet there are tracks in the surface from the rover (photo AS17-140-21370). This is simply untrue. The LRV was taken out when this photo was taken. In the photo before (AS17-140-21369), the LRV is clearly seen: https://www.hq.nasa.gov/alsj/a17/AS17-140-21369HR.jpg

In fact, in many photos taken before 21370, the LRV can be seen, in 21368: https://www.hq.nasa.gov/alsj/a17/AS17-140-21368HR.jpg, 21367: https://www.hq.nasa.gov/alsj/a17/AS17-140-21367HR.jpg

Probably the biggest contender that this photo was not taken before the LRV was deployed, is that this photo, along with the others linked here, was taken during the 3rd EVA. The LRV was deployed in the first. There are numerous magazines from the first and second EVAs that show this.

Lastly, and this has been added on as an edit, is that Tom has the completely wrong compartment. He is claiming that the compartment left of the ladder (if facing the ladder) is the one holding the LRV. It would seem this way, with the big boxy thing sticking out of it, but that is not true. That is the MESA or the Modular Equipment Stowage Assembly. It held scientific equipment. The LRV was actually kept in the compartment just to the right of the ladder. This can be seen in the diagrams of the descent stage: http://www.collectspace.com//review/mikej/lm-descent.jpg, in a simulation: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NBNhUNROV5U, in the testing of the unfolding on earth: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ObEjEEfnBj8, and, most importantly, in original videos from Apollo 15's unpacking: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rHF5EcdLxQo. It appears to me that Tom has mixed up the compartment that the LRV is held in. This mistake should be corrected by deleting the section entirely, as there is no problem that Tom claims.

I suspect some lying is being done by the flat-earthers or not enough research was done.
« Last Edit: January 04, 2018, 03:34:18 AM by nickrulercreator »
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Offline nickrulercreator

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Re: There is an error in your wiki made by Tom
« Reply #1 on: January 03, 2018, 01:44:55 AM »
44 views and no replies, and the wiki hasn't been fixed. Is anyone there?
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Offline Boots

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Re: There is an error in your wiki made by Tom
« Reply #2 on: January 03, 2018, 02:15:38 AM »
Crickets is all you're likely to hear. These are extremely smart and busy people. Do you think they have time for silly stuff like making sure their wiki's correct?
“There are some ideas so absurd that only an intellectual could believe them.” - George Orwell

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Offline junker

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Re: There is an error in your wiki made by Tom
« Reply #3 on: January 03, 2018, 02:37:32 AM »
44 views and no replies, and the wiki hasn't been fixed. Is anyone there?
Please don't spam just to point out no one has responded in a timeframe acceptable to you (in this case ~8 hours). Warned.


Crickets is all you're likely to hear. These are extremely smart and busy people. Do you think they have time for silly stuff like making sure their wiki's correct?
1) Not many people are actively editing the wiki. If it is a valid concern, someone will get around to it.

2) Refrain from low-content posting in the upper fora. Warned.

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Offline Boots

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Re: There is an error in your wiki made by Tom
« Reply #4 on: January 03, 2018, 04:05:39 AM »
Crickets is all you're likely to hear. These are extremely smart and busy people. Do you think they have time for silly stuff like making sure their wiki's correct?
1) Not many people are actively editing the wiki. If it is a valid concern, someone will get around to it.

2) Refrain from low-content posting in the upper fora. Warned.

Ok. But buddy asked a question, I thought I gave him an honest answer. Which part of my answer wasn't true?
“There are some ideas so absurd that only an intellectual could believe them.” - George Orwell

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Re: There is an error in your wiki made by Tom
« Reply #5 on: January 03, 2018, 04:55:44 AM »
Crickets is all you're likely to hear. These are extremely smart and busy people. Do you think they have time for silly stuff like making sure their wiki's correct?
1) Not many people are actively editing the wiki. If it is a valid concern, someone will get around to it.

2) Refrain from low-content posting in the upper fora. Warned.

Ok. But buddy asked a question, I thought I gave him an honest answer. Which part of my answer wasn't true?

Last warning. Brief vacation next.

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Offline nickrulercreator

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Re: There is an error in your wiki made by Tom
« Reply #6 on: January 03, 2018, 05:16:51 AM »
44 views and no replies, and the wiki hasn't been fixed. Is anyone there?
Please don't spam just to point out no one has responded in a timeframe acceptable to you (in this case ~8 hours). Warned.

Now, hold on, how was I spamming? I agree with Boots in that I was just asking a question. I thought flat-earthers liked the "truth" and wanted to ensure that it is well spread. I pointed out a flaw, and when I was clearly ignored, or just not bothered with, I asked if this matter was going to be taken seriously and/or corrected. I feel like me pointing out an error to you is beneficial as it helps to ensure that TFES (which I disagree with) contains high-quality content.
This end should point toward the ground if you want to go to space. If it starts pointing toward space you are having a bad problem and you will not go to space today.

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Re: There is an error in your wiki made by Tom
« Reply #7 on: January 03, 2018, 05:33:29 AM »
44 views and no replies, and the wiki hasn't been fixed. Is anyone there?
Please don't spam just to point out no one has responded in a timeframe acceptable to you (in this case ~8 hours). Warned.

Now, hold on, how was I spamming? I agree with Boots in that I was just asking a question. I thought flat-earthers liked the "truth" and wanted to ensure that it is well spread. I pointed out a flaw, and when I was clearly ignored, or just not bothered with, I asked if this matter was going to be taken seriously and/or corrected. I feel like me pointing out an error to you is beneficial as it helps to ensure that TFES (which I disagree with) contains high-quality content.

Bumping a thread hours after it is created to add nothing but a complaint about no one responding is spam. If you have an issue with moderation, take it to S&C as this is not the place to argue moderation.

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: There is an error in your wiki made by Tom
« Reply #8 on: January 03, 2018, 05:47:45 PM »
I have noticed an error in your wiki on this page: https://wiki.tfes.org/Apollo_Moonbuggy_Problems#Unpacked_Moonbuggy made by Tom Bishop

You claim that the LRV seems to be still packaged in the LM, yet there are tracks in the surface from the rover (photo AS17-140-21370). This is simply untrue. The LRV was taken out when this photo was taken. In the photo before (AS17-140-21369), the LRV is clearly seen: https://www.hq.nasa.gov/alsj/a17/AS17-140-21369HR.jpg

In fact, in many photos taken before 21370, the LRV can be seen, in 21368: https://www.hq.nasa.gov/alsj/a17/AS17-140-21368HR.jpg, 21367: https://www.hq.nasa.gov/alsj/a17/AS17-140-21367HR.jpg

Probably the biggest contender that this photo was not taken before the LRV was deployed, is that this photo, along with the others linked here, was taken during the 3rd EVA. The LRV was deployed in the first. There are numerous magazines from the first and second EVAs that show this.

I suspect some lying is being done by the flat-earthers, or not enough research was done. :o

In the original image on the Wiki page we see that there has been a rover making tracks next to the packed rover. The fact that you were able to find pictures of the deployed rover that come before pictures of a packed rover only furthers the argument in the Wiki and does nothing to contradict it.

You have done nothing except better showcase the continuity errors for us. So what are we supposed to explain?
« Last Edit: January 03, 2018, 09:15:42 PM by Tom Bishop »

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Re: There is an error in your wiki made by Tom
« Reply #9 on: January 03, 2018, 08:03:25 PM »
Wait, so your argument boils down to the assumption that a photo with a lower number was chronologically taken before the one with a higher number.

Other than "the space man said so", do you have any reason to believe that this is the case?
Read the FAQ before asking your question - chances are we already addressed it.
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Offline nickrulercreator

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Re: There is an error in your wiki made by Tom
« Reply #10 on: January 03, 2018, 09:30:09 PM »
I have noticed an error in your wiki on this page: https://wiki.tfes.org/Apollo_Moonbuggy_Problems#Unpacked_Moonbuggy made by Tom Bishop

You claim that the LRV seems to be still packaged in the LM, yet there are tracks in the surface from the rover (photo AS17-140-21370). This is simply untrue. The LRV was taken out when this photo was taken. In the photo before (AS17-140-21369), the LRV is clearly seen: https://www.hq.nasa.gov/alsj/a17/AS17-140-21369HR.jpg

In fact, in many photos taken before 21370, the LRV can be seen, in 21368: https://www.hq.nasa.gov/alsj/a17/AS17-140-21368HR.jpg, 21367: https://www.hq.nasa.gov/alsj/a17/AS17-140-21367HR.jpg

Probably the biggest contender that this photo was not taken before the LRV was deployed, is that this photo, along with the others linked here, was taken during the 3rd EVA. The LRV was deployed in the first. There are numerous magazines from the first and second EVAs that show this.

I suspect some lying is being done by the flat-earthers, or not enough research was done. :o

In the original im image on the Wiki page we see that there has been a rover there next to the packed rover, based on the tracks in the dirt. The fact that you were able to find pictures of the deployed rover that come before pictures of a packed rover only furthers the argument in the Wiki and does nothing to contradict it.

You have done nothing except better showcase the continuity errors for us. So what are we supposed to explain?

Except that the rover wasn't packed? You have the wrong compartment, Tom. If facing the ladder of the LM, the rover was packed to the right section of it. This can be seen in diagrams of the design: http://www.collectspace.com//review/mikej/lm-descent.jpg, in a simulation: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NBNhUNROV5U, in the testing of the unfolding on earth: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ObEjEEfnBj8, and, most importantly, in original videos from Apollo 15's unpacking:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rHF5EcdLxQo

Don't try to fool me, the thing you're claiming to be the packed rover is NOT the rover, it is the Modular Equipment Stowage Assembly, or MESA: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apollo_Lunar_Module#Descent_stage. This was packed to the LEFT of the ladder, in a package. When opened, the package is unfurlled. It can be closed again, though.

So, again, you're wrong. You're making claims without knowledge in the actual design of the LM. The rover was not in the front-left compartment, which you claim it to be, it was in the front-right.
« Last Edit: January 03, 2018, 09:46:12 PM by nickrulercreator »
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Re: There is an error in your wiki made by Tom
« Reply #11 on: January 03, 2018, 09:33:02 PM »
Wait, so your argument boils down to the assumption that a photo with a lower number was chronologically taken before the one with a higher number.

Other than "the space man said so", do you have any reason to believe that this is the case?

Oh boy conspiracehhh.

No, my argument is based down to Tom being wrong. First, we know that this image was taken in EVA 3, and the rover was unpacked in EVA 1. Second, we know that, even if other photos were taken after this one that is labeled as before, they were still taken within a few seconds of each other. Just look at the photos. If that isn't enough evidence that Tom (or you) is wrong, check out my most recent reply (the one to Tom). The claim of Tom is that the rover is packed into the compartment left of the ladder when in reality, that is the MESA, and the rover was packed to the right of the ladder. It doesn't matter the order of the photos, there's still other evidence.
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Re: There is an error in your wiki made by Tom
« Reply #12 on: January 03, 2018, 10:53:39 PM »
Oh boy conspiracehhh.
If you don't have anything to say, please don't say anything. Unless you're in CN. Say as much as you want there.

No, my argument is based down to Tom being wrong.
I see. Well, my counter-argument is "no, you're wrong!!!!1!"

What you're saying is that Tom's interpretation of the situation contradicts NASA's official account. I simply can't figure out why you think this wasn't obvious, or needed voicing.
Read the FAQ before asking your question - chances are we already addressed it.
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Offline nickrulercreator

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Re: There is an error in your wiki made by Tom
« Reply #13 on: January 03, 2018, 11:29:47 PM »
Oh boy conspiracehhh.
If you don't have anything to say, please don't say anything. Unless you're in CN. Say as much as you want there.

I will not say anything if I don't have anything to say, but it seems like you're not adding much to this thread either.

No, my argument is based down to Tom being wrong.
I see. Well, my counter-argument is "no, you're wrong!!!!1!"

What you're saying is that Tom's interpretation of the situation contradicts NASA's official account. I simply can't figure out why you think this wasn't obvious, or needed voicing.

You claim I am wrong in my argument. Where? How? What's your evidence? Note: I am not claiming we landed on the moon (though that is my opinion, it is unimportant to the concerns of this thread), I'm simply pointing out an error made by Tom and showed him how it was wrong. Why am I wrong?

I'm not saying Tom's interpretation contradicts NASA, I'm simply stating he made a mistake and confused one section of the LM with another. Thus, he should correct his error. I don't believe Tom has a deliberately different view against NASA in this case (though he does in general), I'm stating he just used wrong information. This is obvious, as I pointed out, and I decided it required voicing because it was an error that needed to be fixed. I don't understand why I am receiving ridicule and backlash for pointing out a technical error in your prized wiki made by Tom, and, thus, helping you flat earthers to fix it.

Tom's claim matches no records and contradicts the facts. He made an error. I pointed this error out. I showed why it's wrong and provided significant evidence. He thought the left-hand side was the LM compartment when it was the right-hand side. I'm trying to be friendly here.

Edit: this is my 42nd post and it will be dubbed as the answer to life, the universe, and everything.
« Last Edit: January 04, 2018, 03:46:06 AM by nickrulercreator »
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Offline TomInAustin

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Re: There is an error in your wiki made by Tom
« Reply #14 on: January 05, 2018, 04:49:31 PM »
I have noticed an error in your wiki on this page: https://wiki.tfes.org/Apollo_Moonbuggy_Problems#Unpacked_Moonbuggy made by Tom Bishop

You claim that the LRV seems to be still packaged in the LM, yet there are tracks in the surface from the rover (photo AS17-140-21370). This is simply untrue. The LRV was taken out when this photo was taken. In the photo before (AS17-140-21369), the LRV is clearly seen: https://www.hq.nasa.gov/alsj/a17/AS17-140-21369HR.jpg

In fact, in many photos taken before 21370, the LRV can be seen, in 21368: https://www.hq.nasa.gov/alsj/a17/AS17-140-21368HR.jpg, 21367: https://www.hq.nasa.gov/alsj/a17/AS17-140-21367HR.jpg

Probably the biggest contender that this photo was not taken before the LRV was deployed, is that this photo, along with the others linked here, was taken during the 3rd EVA. The LRV was deployed in the first. There are numerous magazines from the first and second EVAs that show this.

Lastly, and this has been added on as an edit, is that Tom has the completely wrong compartment. He is claiming that the compartment left of the ladder (if facing the ladder) is the one holding the LRV. It would seem this way, with the big boxy thing sticking out of it, but that is not true. That is the MESA or the Modular Equipment Stowage Assembly. It held scientific equipment. The LRV was actually kept in the compartment just to the right of the ladder. This can be seen in the diagrams of the descent stage: http://www.collectspace.com//review/mikej/lm-descent.jpg, in a simulation: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NBNhUNROV5U, in the testing of the unfolding on earth: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ObEjEEfnBj8, and, most importantly, in original videos from Apollo 15's unpacking: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rHF5EcdLxQo. It appears to me that Tom has mixed up the compartment that the LRV is held in. This mistake should be corrected by deleting the section entirely, as there is no problem that Tom claims.

I suspect some lying is being done by the flat-earthers or not enough research was done.


Here is a video confirming the location of the rover on the LEM.  To the right of the ladder looking at the LEM.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ShauSWcTC4




Do you have a citation for this sweeping generalisation?

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Offline nickrulercreator

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Re: There is an error in your wiki made by Tom
« Reply #15 on: January 05, 2018, 09:08:45 PM »
I have noticed an error in your wiki on this page: https://wiki.tfes.org/Apollo_Moonbuggy_Problems#Unpacked_Moonbuggy made by Tom Bishop

You claim that the LRV seems to be still packaged in the LM, yet there are tracks in the surface from the rover (photo AS17-140-21370). This is simply untrue. The LRV was taken out when this photo was taken. In the photo before (AS17-140-21369), the LRV is clearly seen: https://www.hq.nasa.gov/alsj/a17/AS17-140-21369HR.jpg

In fact, in many photos taken before 21370, the LRV can be seen, in 21368: https://www.hq.nasa.gov/alsj/a17/AS17-140-21368HR.jpg, 21367: https://www.hq.nasa.gov/alsj/a17/AS17-140-21367HR.jpg

Probably the biggest contender that this photo was not taken before the LRV was deployed, is that this photo, along with the others linked here, was taken during the 3rd EVA. The LRV was deployed in the first. There are numerous magazines from the first and second EVAs that show this.

Lastly, and this has been added on as an edit, is that Tom has the completely wrong compartment. He is claiming that the compartment left of the ladder (if facing the ladder) is the one holding the LRV. It would seem this way, with the big boxy thing sticking out of it, but that is not true. That is the MESA or the Modular Equipment Stowage Assembly. It held scientific equipment. The LRV was actually kept in the compartment just to the right of the ladder. This can be seen in the diagrams of the descent stage: http://www.collectspace.com//review/mikej/lm-descent.jpg, in a simulation: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NBNhUNROV5U, in the testing of the unfolding on earth: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ObEjEEfnBj8, and, most importantly, in original videos from Apollo 15's unpacking: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rHF5EcdLxQo. It appears to me that Tom has mixed up the compartment that the LRV is held in. This mistake should be corrected by deleting the section entirely, as there is no problem that Tom claims.

I suspect some lying is being done by the flat-earthers or not enough research was done.


Here is a video confirming the location of the rover on the LEM.  To the right of the ladder looking at the LEM.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ShauSWcTC4


Yep, this is the video I referenced earlier. It shows that Tom Bishop was wrong, and should address this matter. Would he need anymore proof? Is it better to just PM him instead?
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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: There is an error in your wiki made by Tom
« Reply #16 on: January 06, 2018, 12:26:24 AM »
It is fine to bring these things up here in threads. The first argument you made was that there are pictures of the unpacked Rover before the packed rover. This argument was bad because the point of the section in the Wiki is that there are continuity errors.

Your second argument was that the package was not the Rover at all, and the rover-looking package was likely something else. This is a more valid argument, and I agree with it. I agree that the Wiki should be corrected.

Thank you.

Edit: I have now edited that portion out. Any further comments are welcome.
« Last Edit: January 06, 2018, 02:31:18 AM by Tom Bishop »

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Offline nickrulercreator

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Re: There is an error in your wiki made by Tom
« Reply #17 on: January 11, 2018, 01:57:41 PM »
It is fine to bring these things up here in threads. The first argument you made was that there are pictures of the unpacked Rover before the packed rover. This argument was bad because the point of the section in the Wiki is that there are continuity errors.

Your second argument was that the package was not the Rover at all, and the rover-looking package was likely something else. This is a more valid argument, and I agree with it. I agree that the Wiki should be corrected.

Thank you.

Edit: I have now edited that portion out. Any further comments are welcome.

wow, thank you, Tom. Glad to help out. I'll go back and see if there's any more errors that could be corrected.

Edit: Ok, I think I found something: https://wiki.tfes.org/A_Close_Look_at_the_Lunar_Lander

While this isn't exactly wrong, it isn't right. For starters, no real evidence is given to suggest that the lander was faked, or couldn't work, etc. The entire argument is "look at it, it doesn't SEEM right, which means it can't be right. right?"

Well, I would like to argue this. That, isn't the actual part of the LM that held the people. YES, it is on the ascent module, but inside the LM is a rather solid, strong aluminum frame: http://www.hq.nasa.gov/office/pao/History/alsj/misc/apmisc-LM-noID-06.jpg and: http://www.hq.nasa.gov/office/pao/History/alsj/misc/apmisc-LM-noID-11.jpg and: http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=6785.0;attach=18404;image and: https://qph.ec.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-1db85cf4b2cd44e5e0e4d4eaf864bd79-c and: https://history.msfc.nasa.gov/saturn_apollo/photos/images/apollo17_GRIN-000640.jpg

Quite like the command module, the LM that you see is just its outside covering. The CM inside its cover, when stripped down, looks like this: https://www.hq.nasa.gov/office/pao/History/SP-4009/images/1-158b.gif and: https://www.hq.nasa.gov/pao/History/SP-4205/images/c095b.jpg and then this: https://www.hq.nasa.gov/pao/History/SP-4205/images/c095b.jpg and then this: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f9/View_of_Spacecraft_012_Command_Module_during_installation_of_heat_shield_%28small_image%29.jpg and finally this: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d9/Seattle_Apollo_command_module.jpg and this: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c0/Apollo_CSM_lunar_orbit.jpg

Essentially, you're ignoring the framing of the LM. The outer covering was the layers of mylar foil used for heat and thermal control, as well as partial micrometeorite shielding. This isn't exactly the most scientific, or reliable argument, for flat earthers. I'm not saying this has to be taken down, but it isn't exactly necessary.

EDIT 2:

I have spotted another in this page, at the bottom "floating moonbuggy" section: https://wiki.tfes.org/Apollo_Moonbuggy_Problems

While it may look like the buggy is floating, this isn't the case. In another photo of the same scene (AS15-86-11659): https://www.hq.nasa.gov/alsj/a15/AS15-86-11659HR.jpg it is clearly seen the front left wheel is on the rock that the photo is being taken from, causing the back left to be lifted as well

You also say that a photo taken of the rover off the ground may be evidence that it was lowered onto set. To this, I ask: why release these photos to the public? There are multiple photos of the rover off the ground. Why would NASA allow this to occur? Where's the shadow, or any evidence, of some crane lowering the rover?

Additionally, I've spotted another error. Same page, but "missing tracks" section.

While it is reasonable that some photos of missing tracks are suspicious, it doesn't mean hoax. In fact, it's easily answerable. The rover covers it's tracks sometimes. If moving slow, the dust propelled out the back of the wheels hits the back dust flap on the wheel frame, falling down behind the wheel. In fact, there's a photo showing this in action: https://www.metabunk.org/data/MetaMirrorCache/static.ddmcdn.com_gif_lunar_rover_11_130731.jpg look at very backs of each wheel. See the dust falling?

Also, there are a plethora of photos of the tracks as well, yet no evidence that it was lowered on a crane. And yes, it would be possible for the astronauts to cover SOME of the tracks. Not all, of course, but for many close to the rover, not in the far surrounding land. But, here are many photos of the tracks there:

https://www.hq.nasa.gov/alsj/a15/AS15-82-11055HR.jpg
https://www.hq.nasa.gov/alsj/a15/AS15-82-11060HR.jpg
https://www.hq.nasa.gov/alsj/a15/AS15-82-11063HR.jpg
https://www.hq.nasa.gov/alsj/a15/AS15-82-11069HR.jpg
https://www.hq.nasa.gov/alsj/a15/AS15-82-11091HR.jpg (for this one, notice how the tracks right behind the rover are covered, but the ones further back aren't? this could be evidence to the above arguments)
https://www.hq.nasa.gov/alsj/a15/AS15-82-11092HR.jpg
https://www.hq.nasa.gov/alsj/a15/AS15-82-11108HR.jpg (hard to see, but they're there)
https://www.hq.nasa.gov/alsj/a15/AS15-82-11120HR.jpg
https://www.hq.nasa.gov/alsj/a15/AS15-82-11169HR.jpg
https://www.hq.nasa.gov/alsj/a15/AS15-82-11170HR.jpg
https://www.hq.nasa.gov/alsj/a15/AS15-82-11195HR.jpg (wow!)
https://www.hq.nasa.gov/alsj/a15/AS15-85-11402HR.jpg
https://www.hq.nasa.gov/alsj/a15/AS15-85-11403HR.jpg
https://www.hq.nasa.gov/alsj/a15/AS15-85-11413HR.jpg
https://www.hq.nasa.gov/alsj/a15/AS15-85-11422HR.jpg
https://www.hq.nasa.gov/alsj/a15/AS15-85-11423HR.jpg
https://www.hq.nasa.gov/alsj/a15/AS15-85-11430HR.jpg
https://www.hq.nasa.gov/alsj/a15/AS15-85-11431HR.jpg
https://www.hq.nasa.gov/alsj/a15/AS15-85-11437HR.jpg
https://www.hq.nasa.gov/alsj/a15/AS15-85-11438HR.jpg
and there are many, many more. These are all from just Apollo 15, too. There's yet more from A15, and then 16 and 17. There'd be too many links for this thread if I was to post them all, but feel free to check the ALSJ if you'd like to see the rest.

EDIT 4:

Another one. The link is listed as "NASA sends Neil and Buzz around to give foreign heads of states fake moon rocks": https://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/offbeat/2009-08-27-moon-rock-museum_N.htm

This has been greatly debunked: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mHALUGcEEiQ and https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hGQhArtFqIM

Essentially, the moon rock was never actually claimed to be a rock, nor did it match any of the other samples given to the other countries on the tour. I suggest watching both videos, they're very informative.
This end should point toward the ground if you want to go to space. If it starts pointing toward space you are having a bad problem and you will not go to space today.

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Offline nickrulercreator

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Re: There is an error in your wiki made by Tom
« Reply #18 on: January 11, 2018, 02:04:01 PM »
I have found a few more errors or discrepancies.

These are all under the "The Conspiracy Section": https://wiki.tfes.org/The_Conspiracy

First, the Cassini Mission Section. The second link, the one to the youtube video, has been compromised, because the video was removed from youtube.

As for the first link, the answer to your claims can be found at the bottom of the article. I'll quote it here:

Quote
The person responsible for the manipulation, Emily Lakdawalla, told a forum of excitable theorists that she made the changes because of the way Cassini takes photos.

"Cassini takes colour pictures by snapping three sequential photos through red, green, and blue filters," she said.

"In the time that separated the three frames, Dione moved, so if I did a simple color composite I would be able to make Titan look right, but not Dione; or Dione look right, but not Titan.

"So I aligned Dione, cut it out, and then aligned Titan, and then had to account for the missing bits of shadow where the bits of Dione had been in two of the three channels."

Next is the ISS section.

The second link of yours leads to a page with photos, claiming the earth's curve is not uniform. This is clearly due to the fisheye effect of the wide-angle lens. The curvature of the earth is simply being slightly changed by the effect near the edge of the frame.

The Third link's claim is easy to explain. It's called the dolly zoom effect: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dolly_zoom Essentially, the photo of the station showing the apparently very close earth behind it, was taken from a far distance away. The photographer wanted to keep the ISS large in the frame, so he/she zoomed in onto it. As a result, the field of view narrowed, cutting off much of the surrounding background, showing less of the earth. For the other photos, where it shows much of the earth from the same altitude, this is simply because the camera is zoomed out. If, say, you wanted to take another photo of the ISS, but you were close to it, you'd zoom out. This would open the field of view, causing the background to be more visible to the camera.

This end should point toward the ground if you want to go to space. If it starts pointing toward space you are having a bad problem and you will not go to space today.

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: There is an error in your wiki made by Tom
« Reply #19 on: January 15, 2018, 10:25:12 PM »
Edit: Ok, I think I found something: https://wiki.tfes.org/A_Close_Look_at_the_Lunar_Lander

While this isn't exactly wrong, it isn't right. For starters, no real evidence is given to suggest that the lander was faked, or couldn't work, etc. The entire argument is "look at it, it doesn't SEEM right, which means it can't be right. right?"

Well, I would like to argue this. That, isn't the actual part of the LM that held the people. YES, it is on the ascent module, but inside the LM is a rather solid, strong aluminum frame: http://www.hq.nasa.gov/office/pao/History/alsj/misc/apmisc-LM-noID-06.jpg and: http://www.hq.nasa.gov/office/pao/History/alsj/misc/apmisc-LM-noID-11.jpg and: http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=6785.0;attach=18404;image and: https://qph.ec.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-1db85cf4b2cd44e5e0e4d4eaf864bd79-c and: https://history.msfc.nasa.gov/saturn_apollo/photos/images/apollo17_GRIN-000640.jpg

Quite like the command module, the LM that you see is just its outside covering. The CM inside its cover, when stripped down, looks like this: https://www.hq.nasa.gov/office/pao/History/SP-4009/images/1-158b.gif and: https://www.hq.nasa.gov/pao/History/SP-4205/images/c095b.jpg and then this: https://www.hq.nasa.gov/pao/History/SP-4205/images/c095b.jpg and then this: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f9/View_of_Spacecraft_012_Command_Module_during_installation_of_heat_shield_%28small_image%29.jpg and finally this: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d9/Seattle_Apollo_command_module.jpg and this: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c0/Apollo_CSM_lunar_orbit.jpg

Essentially, you're ignoring the framing of the LM. The outer covering was the layers of mylar foil used for heat and thermal control, as well as partial micrometeorite shielding. This isn't exactly the most scientific, or reliable argument, for flat earthers. I'm not saying this has to be taken down, but it isn't exactly necessary.

Even if you think that there is a real space ship beneath it, the outer heat shielding is still an essential part of the lander. The fact that it appears so shoddily put together, and is affixed with tape, is a valid point. The outer white exterior insulation walls of the craft are not even properly fitted together. There are gaps all over the place.
« Last Edit: January 15, 2018, 10:26:47 PM by Tom Bishop »