What is the speed of Sun in FET?
« on: March 11, 2016, 07:36:37 PM »
Knowing that value we can easely verify very important thing. At the time of sunset we would launch a balloon and could see if we can observe the Sun longer.

p.s. Sorry for my English.

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Offline Pongo

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Re: What is the speed of Sun in FET?
« Reply #1 on: March 11, 2016, 07:45:06 PM »
Doesn't both flat-earth and round-earth theory both say that you would expect to see the sun longer from a high vantage point?

Re: What is the speed of Sun in FET?
« Reply #2 on: March 11, 2016, 07:52:39 PM »
Doesn't both flat-earth and round-earth theory both say that you would expect to see the sun longer from a high vantage point?

Well, really. I guess amount of time would differ, but those would be are very complicate calculations. I was expecting an easy answer. Thank you for makeing my brain work better.

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Re: What is the speed of Sun in FET?
« Reply #3 on: March 11, 2016, 10:17:12 PM »
It varies. You can work it out for any day of the year. It travels from the tropic of cancer to Capricorn. Work out the latitude. How far that latitude is around on a flat earth and divide by 24 hours.

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Offline rabinoz

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Re: What is the speed of Sun in FET?
« Reply #4 on: March 12, 2016, 12:11:31 AM »
It varies. You can work it out for any day of the year. It travels from the tropic of cancer to Capricorn. Work out the latitude. How far that latitude is around on a flat earth and divide by 24 hours.
You say "it varies". What is the mechanism for this variation?
Also how does the sun's intensity also change to allow the much larger area of the southern hemisphere (3 times the area of the northern hemisphere!) to get the same energy (actually a little more) in its summer as the northern hemisphere gets (in its summer).

No, I have not seen "the Wiki" explain this.

Re: What is the speed of Sun in FET?
« Reply #5 on: March 13, 2016, 06:02:06 AM »
It varies. You can work it out for any day of the year. It travels from the tropic of cancer to Capricorn. Work out the latitude. How far that latitude is around on a flat earth and divide by 24 hours.
You say "it varies". What is the mechanism for this variation?
Also how does the sun's intensity also change to allow the much larger area of the southern hemisphere (3 times the area of the northern hemisphere!) to get the same energy (actually a little more) in its summer as the northern hemisphere gets (in its summer).

No, I have not seen "the Wiki" explain this.

What is the mechanism that allows that to happen in heliocentric theory?

Offline UnionsOfSolarSystemPlanet

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Re: What is the speed of Sun in FET?
« Reply #6 on: March 13, 2016, 11:04:47 AM »
It varies. You can work it out for any day of the year. It travels from the tropic of cancer to Capricorn. Work out the latitude. How far that latitude is around on a flat earth and divide by 24 hours.
You say "it varies". What is the mechanism for this variation?
Also how does the sun's intensity also change to allow the much larger area of the southern hemisphere (3 times the area of the northern hemisphere!) to get the same energy (actually a little more) in its summer as the northern hemisphere gets (in its summer).

No, I have not seen "the Wiki" explain this.

What is the mechanism that allows that to happen in heliocentric theory?

Perihelion and aphelion, don't you ever consider looking at both models equally?
The Earth's orbit is not circular, it varies from 147.1 million km at January to 152.1 million km at July
Proof: Sun appears larger and move faster relative to background star in January than at July, reports also shows that the Earth receive more energy from the Sun at January than July.
The size of the Solar system if the Moon were only 1 pixel:
http://joshworth.com/dev/pixelspace/pixelspace_solarsystem.html

Re: What is the speed of Sun in FET?
« Reply #7 on: March 13, 2016, 03:01:18 PM »
It varies. You can work it out for any day of the year. It travels from the tropic of cancer to Capricorn. Work out the latitude. How far that latitude is around on a flat earth and divide by 24 hours.
You say "it varies". What is the mechanism for this variation?
Also how does the sun's intensity also change to allow the much larger area of the southern hemisphere (3 times the area of the northern hemisphere!) to get the same energy (actually a little more) in its summer as the northern hemisphere gets (in its summer).

No, I have not seen "the Wiki" explain this.

What is the mechanism that allows that to happen in heliocentric theory?

Perihelion and aphelion, don't you ever consider looking at both models equally?
The Earth's orbit is not circular, it varies from 147.1 million km at January to 152.1 million km at July
Proof: Sun appears larger and move faster relative to background star in January than at July, reports also shows that the Earth receive more energy from the Sun at January than July.

Why? Elliptical orbit? Why is it elliptical? Because it has to be?

What about summer and winter? Because the Earth is tilted one way half the year, and another way the other half?

Why? Because it has to be? What is the mechanism that shifts the tilt of our entire, massive planet, predictably, year after year?

The sun receives more energy in January, then July? Not from what I have noticed. Of course I'm not entirely qualified considering I've lived in the northern hemisphere my whole life. As I'm sure 90% of people born in, stay in the southern hemisphere their whole lives.

Offline UnionsOfSolarSystemPlanet

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Re: What is the speed of Sun in FET?
« Reply #8 on: March 13, 2016, 04:55:58 PM »
Why? Elliptical orbit? Why is it elliptical? Because it has to be?

What about summer and winter? Because the Earth is tilted one way half the year, and another way the other half?

Why? Because it has to be? What is the mechanism that shifts the tilt of our entire, massive planet, predictably, year after year?

The sun receives more energy in January, then July? Not from what I have noticed. Of course I'm not entirely qualified considering I've lived in the northern hemisphere my whole life. As I'm sure 90% of people born in, stay in the southern hemisphere their whole lives.

Orbits are elliptical, just as how pendulum works it's conservation of momentum. Judging from your response i don't think i can explain it simple enough for you to understand it.

The tilt isn't moving (a lot) every year, it's the Earth that's revolving around the Sun, seen from the star Polaris, the North pole will constantly seem to be pointing at it while the Earth moves around the Sun.
Or i could paint you 2 different image regarding of Earth's tilt when i have the time so you might understand.

This here shows what the Earth's orbit look like from sideways if the ecliptic was a straight line:

Note: Left winter, right summer

This here shows what the Earth's orbit look like from sideways if the equator was a straight line:


Both would produce the same effect of seasons, but it would have different coordinates system. Simple enough for you to understand?
« Last Edit: March 13, 2016, 05:36:38 PM by UnionsOfSolarSystemPlanet »
The size of the Solar system if the Moon were only 1 pixel:
http://joshworth.com/dev/pixelspace/pixelspace_solarsystem.html

Re: What is the speed of Sun in FET?
« Reply #9 on: March 14, 2016, 06:56:03 PM »
Why? Elliptical orbit? Why is it elliptical? Because it has to be?

What about summer and winter? Because the Earth is tilted one way half the year, and another way the other half?

Why? Because it has to be? What is the mechanism that shifts the tilt of our entire, massive planet, predictably, year after year?

The sun receives more energy in January, then July? Not from what I have noticed. Of course I'm not entirely qualified considering I've lived in the northern hemisphere my whole life. As I'm sure 90% of people born in, stay in the southern hemisphere their whole lives.

Orbits are elliptical, just as how pendulum works it's conservation of momentum. Judging from your response i don't think i can explain it simple enough for you to understand it.

The tilt isn't moving (a lot) every year, it's the Earth that's revolving around the Sun, seen from the star Polaris, the North pole will constantly seem to be pointing at it while the Earth moves around the Sun.
Or i could paint you 2 different image regarding of Earth's tilt when i have the time so you might understand.

This here shows what the Earth's orbit look like from sideways if the ecliptic was a straight line:

Note: Left winter, right summer

This here shows what the Earth's orbit look like from sideways if the equator was a straight line:


Both would produce the same effect of seasons, but it would have different coordinates system. Simple enough for you to understand?

But why is it tilted? Because it has to be?

There seems to be this narrative that I don't understand what you are saying, which is very condescending and no way to have a conversation.

Anyone familiar with law, would see the evidence for rotating, orbiting, tilted earth, and call it circumstantial evidence.

Just to be clear, our galaxy is also orbiting "somewhere" in the universe as well? Right? So during all this elliptical orbiting upon orbiting upon orbiting, the stars, even the ones outside of our galaxy remain pretty much fixed to an observer on Earth, correct? That doesn't just seem odd to you?

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Offline Woody

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Re: What is the speed of Sun in FET?
« Reply #10 on: March 14, 2016, 07:32:52 PM »
Why? Elliptical orbit? Why is it elliptical? Because it has to be?

What about summer and winter? Because the Earth is tilted one way half the year, and another way the other half?

Why? Because it has to be? What is the mechanism that shifts the tilt of our entire, massive planet, predictably, year after year?

The sun receives more energy in January, then July? Not from what I have noticed. Of course I'm not entirely qualified considering I've lived in the northern hemisphere my whole life. As I'm sure 90% of people born in, stay in the southern hemisphere their whole lives.

Orbits are elliptical, just as how pendulum works it's conservation of momentum. Judging from your response i don't think i can explain it simple enough for you to understand it.

The tilt isn't moving (a lot) every year, it's the Earth that's revolving around the Sun, seen from the star Polaris, the North pole will constantly seem to be pointing at it while the Earth moves around the Sun.
Or i could paint you 2 different image regarding of Earth's tilt when i have the time so you might understand.

This here shows what the Earth's orbit look like from sideways if the ecliptic was a straight line:

Note: Left winter, right summer

This here shows what the Earth's orbit look like from sideways if the equator was a straight line:


Both would produce the same effect of seasons, but it would have different coordinates system. Simple enough for you to understand?

But why is it tilted? Because it has to be?

There seems to be this narrative that I don't understand what you are saying, which is very condescending and no way to have a conversation.

Anyone familiar with law, would see the evidence for rotating, orbiting, tilted earth, and call it circumstantial evidence.

Just to be clear, our galaxy is also orbiting "somewhere" in the universe as well? Right? So during all this elliptical orbiting upon orbiting upon orbiting, the stars, even the ones outside of our galaxy remain pretty much fixed to an observer on Earth, correct? That doesn't just seem odd to you?

I will touch on the last part of your post since it is the easiest.

Why if everything is not changing speed, orbits and so far away would they appear to move drastically?  Unfortunately you or I will not live long enough to see significant changes in the night sky.

If you really want to see for your self look up parallax and try it out for yourself.  You can also track Barnard's Star and keep notes on it's position in the sky. 

I had the same question awhile ago and wanting to learn why this happens. I first thought about what I can observe in my day to day life.  How things appear to me in different situations. Like observing other cars when I was driving.  How the position of those cars appear to change in relation to me. When they are going the same direction and speed, faster, slower, different directions.  I also thought about distance and how much harder it was to tell the difference if the relative position changed the further away something is away from me.

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Offline Jura-Glenlivet

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Re: What is the speed of Sun in FET?
« Reply #11 on: March 14, 2016, 10:42:28 PM »

Moths have this problem, millions of years of evolution with the moon the only steady light in the night sky meant they could fly straight after dark by keeping a fixed orientation to the moon, when they try to do this with a street light they inevitably end up circling round and bumping into it.
Just to be clear, you are all terrific, but everything you say is exactly what a moron would say.

Re: What is the speed of Sun in FET?
« Reply #12 on: March 15, 2016, 02:02:59 AM »
I know what parallax is. You didn't address my question at all, otherwise you would have abundant evidence for parallax happening between the stars in universe. If the entire universe is whirling, spinning, expanding faster and faster, objects getting more distant, then it seems all to perfect to me that we observe the same phenomena century after century in the night sky. Of course the excuse is that the stars are trillions of light years away, because yet again, they just have to be.

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Offline Woody

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Re: What is the speed of Sun in FET?
« Reply #13 on: March 15, 2016, 06:07:47 AM »
I know what parallax is. You didn't address my question at all, otherwise you would have abundant evidence for parallax happening between the stars in universe. If the entire universe is whirling, spinning, expanding faster and faster, objects getting more distant, then it seems all to perfect to me that we observe the same phenomena century after century in the night sky. Of course the excuse is that the stars are trillions of light years away, because yet again, they just have to be.

How did I not address your question?

Simple experiment.

Place something one inch away from your eye and move it slowly one inch.

Then go 50 feet away and have someone move the object slowly one inch.

Which appeared to move further from your perspective?

Same reason why the night sky does not appear to change.

If you know about parallax then you can use it to see differences.  I also mentioned a star you can observe that is relatively close to Earth and you do not need a life time of observations to chart its changing position in the night sky.

No stars are not real far away because they need to be.  Aetheratic winds, self illuminating moon, bioluminescent life on the moon, weather system on the moon, Aetheratic refraction, universal acceleration and more exist because they need to.  If not point to the evidence beyond someone or yourself just saying it. 

When I first came here I was interested and looked at the evidence provided.  Got put off a little by the first three things I could verify were either mistakes with measuring distances, someone misreading some thing and someone maybe not understanding the methodology of an experiment.  If it was not that then it is blatantly an attempt to support FE by fudging the numbers and misrepresenting stuff.

I continued to read some other stuff and found it not back by anything except conjecture.  If you do find something like a reproducible experiment or observation that I can make please point it out.


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Offline Jura-Glenlivet

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Re: What is the speed of Sun in FET?
« Reply #14 on: March 15, 2016, 10:04:55 AM »
I know what parallax is. You didn't address my question at all, otherwise you would have abundant evidence for parallax happening between the stars in universe. If the entire universe is whirling, spinning, expanding faster and faster, objects getting more distant, then it seems all to perfect to me that we observe the same phenomena century after century in the night sky. Of course the excuse is that the stars are trillions of light years away, because yet again, they just have to be.

Moth.
Just to be clear, you are all terrific, but everything you say is exactly what a moron would say.

Offline UnionsOfSolarSystemPlanet

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Re: What is the speed of Sun in FET?
« Reply #15 on: March 16, 2016, 05:46:55 PM »
But why is it tilted? Because it has to be?

The tilt of Earth is an effect of events. Giant Impact hypothesis and the gravitational influence of the Moon and Sun.
The size of the Solar system if the Moon were only 1 pixel:
http://joshworth.com/dev/pixelspace/pixelspace_solarsystem.html

Re: What is the speed of Sun in FET?
« Reply #16 on: March 16, 2016, 05:57:15 PM »
But why is it tilted? Because it has to be?

The tilt of Earth is an effect of events. Giant Impact hypothesis and the gravitational influence of the Moon and Sun.

Hypothetical being the keyword here. Lucky for us though, Am I Right?!? Gotta have seasons or else life as we know it couldn't exist! Thank you hypothetical massive object that may or may not have created the moon for fixing our stupid homogenized upright planet.

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Offline nametaken

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Re: What is the speed of Sun in FET?
« Reply #17 on: March 18, 2016, 09:53:02 PM »
Perihelion and aphelion

Heh, haven't thought about this since joining the FE debates; damn now I'm wondering, does the sun indicate any redshift/blueshift to say, the New Horizons module, if it looked back at it while moving towards/away? Don't think that's how the doppler effect works though, the Sun would be have to be the thing that's moving... ugh I want to see the sun redshifted now.
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Offline UnionsOfSolarSystemPlanet

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Re: What is the speed of Sun in FET?
« Reply #18 on: March 19, 2016, 10:04:20 AM »
I'm wondering, does the sun indicate any redshift/blueshift to say, the New Horizons module, if it looked back at it while moving towards/away? Don't think that's how the doppler effect works though, the Sun would be have to be the thing that's moving... ugh I want to see the sun redshifted now.
New Horizons is in hyperbolic orbit, so it only moves away from the Sun with a current velocity of 14.5 km/s
you wouldn't notice the redshift with a naked eye with that velocity.
The size of the Solar system if the Moon were only 1 pixel:
http://joshworth.com/dev/pixelspace/pixelspace_solarsystem.html

Offline model 29

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Re: What is the speed of Sun in FET?
« Reply #19 on: March 21, 2016, 12:09:46 AM »
It varies. You can work it out for any day of the year. It travels from the tropic of cancer to Capricorn. Work out the latitude. How far that latitude is around on a flat earth and divide by 24 hours.
Is sounds as though an experiment could be conducted to see if the sun moves overhead faster during summer in the south along the tropic of capricorn than it does during the summer in the north over the tropic of cancer.