What is the Advantage of a Globe Theory?
« on: May 25, 2015, 05:17:05 PM »
Hello -

I have run across this topic (Flat Earth Theory) recently and I am finding it quite fascinating. I am planning at some point over the summer to do my own Bedford Level experiment with my daughters as a science project. I will be approaching if from the perspective of proving the earth to be a globe but I actually seeking truth and will not be surprised if the experiment confirms a flat earth. I actually think a flat earth would be - for lack of a better word - kind of cool.

My question is more philosophical that scientific however. I want to understand what would be gained (by the powers that be) from the "perception/belief" that the world is a globe vs. flat. What is to be gained (or lost) by that theory? I'm trying to understand who would really care and what impact does that have on our lives? It seems it  is extremely important that we believe it is a globe - to the extent of trillions of dollars in the space program over the years all being for show. That's a LOT of investment in something that isn't real so there must be some reason why its so important.

Since 9/11 and the 2008 economic crash, I have become quite the skeptic and I now question everything. I am truly here on a journey for truth. I just would find it difficult to believe we would be sold on a globe if the world is truly flat unless there is some incredibly important reason to do so.

Thank you.

Offline sakura

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Re: What is the Advantage of a Globe Theory?
« Reply #1 on: July 31, 2015, 12:28:59 PM »
I dont get why people are so obsessed with the Bedford experiment.

Quote from Wikiepedia(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bedford_Level_experiment):
"If the measurement is close enough to the surface, light rays can curve downward at a rate equal to the mean curvature of the Earth's surface. In this case, the two effects of curvature and refraction cancel each other out and the Earth will appear flat in optical experiments."

This is also why the Laser experiments that have been done really provide no results at all.
If it works, FE will argue that this is proof of a flat earth by ignoring the effect of atmospeheric refraction.
If your expermients results indicate that the earth is flat you would also have to disprove atmospheric
refraction in order to _actually_ proof that the earth is flat and you did not misinterpret the results.

I have never seen a FE'er take this into consideration, you just take the results that suit you
and ignore the rest. This is just nitpicking.

not an anweser to the actual question, sorry, but if plan on doing this expermient just know
how to interpret the results.
« Last Edit: July 31, 2015, 12:30:50 PM by sakura »

geckothegeek

Re: What is the Advantage of a Globe Theory?
« Reply #2 on: August 01, 2015, 02:07:03 AM »
I am sure I am not alone, but for those of use who have or have had every day jobs it seems unbelievable that anyone would even think, much less believe, that the earth was flat.

Of course I am speaking of those of us who work or have worked in fields regarding aeronautical or naval navigation. Globe is not a theory. It is a fact. Flat earth is not even a theory.

I can possibly understand why those who have not have worked  in jobs such as those mentioned above might have doubts about the shape of the earth. I can also possibly understand why they might have problems in understanding why those of us who have or have had jobs in those fields are so certain that we know the earth is a globe.

Just a couple of other flat earth ideas. It seems quite a few flat earthers have very little knowledge of how photography works. Of course if you don't have a job or a hobby in photography you wouldn't have a need to know.

The same goes for measurements by radio waves, such as radar, or by lasers would be another subject. But unless you have a hobby or work in those areas you wouldn't be expected to know how they work.

But flat earthers don't seem to have any knowledge of those areas and their replies are usually denial of facts or a lack of admitting they aren't familiar in those areas.

PS- Edited because of some typo errors.
« Last Edit: August 01, 2015, 03:40:36 AM by geckothegeek »

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Offline jroa

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Re: What is the Advantage of a Globe Theory?
« Reply #3 on: August 01, 2015, 02:52:29 AM »
I am sure I am not alone, but for those who have every day jobs it seems unbelievable that anyone would even think, much less believe, that the earth was flat.

Of course I am speaking of those of us who work or have worked in fields regarding aeronautical or naval navigation. Globe is not a theory. It is a fact. Flat earth is not even a theory.

Good to see you keep such an open mind.  ::)  I doubt many FEers will bother engaging in a conversation with you.  Isn't there a round Earth society you can go join?

geckothegeek

Re: What is the Advantage of a Globe Theory?
« Reply #4 on: August 01, 2015, 03:05:56 AM »
I am sure I am not alone, but for those who have every day jobs it seems unbelievable that anyone would even think, much less believe, that the earth was flat.

Of course I am speaking of those of us who work or have worked in fields regarding aeronautical or naval navigation. Globe is not a theory. It is a fact. Flat earth is not even a theory.



Good to see you keep such an open mind.  ::)  I doubt many FEers will bother engaging in a conversation with you.  Isn't there a round Earth society you can go join?

There is no need for a round earth society. There is no question that the earth is a globe.

I think some flat earthers  need to get into the real world. I guess I'm just too technically inclined, especially in those areas of photography and radio, and too much of a realist to engage in the flat earth fantasy.

If you are quite happy in your  little world of the flat earth fantasy, I wish you well. But I have been quite happy and have had a fairly comfortable life and enjoyed my work and hobbies  in the large real world of the round world. I assure you I am not alone.

Have a good day !

Re: What is the Advantage of a Globe Theory?
One more Advantage of a Globe Theory. Oceanic charts are used every day. Flat earth maps are never used as a source.
http://msi.nga.mil/MSISiteContent/StaticFiles/NAV_PUBS/APN/Chapt-03.pdf

One more thought. What kind of jobs do flat earthers have ? My jobs were all in the technical areas and I never met a flat earther. Or for that matter I have never met a flat earther except on this website.
« Last Edit: August 01, 2015, 03:47:19 AM by geckothegeek »

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Offline markjo

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Re: What is the Advantage of a Globe Theory?
« Reply #5 on: August 01, 2015, 03:44:24 AM »
Isn't there a round Earth society you can go join?
Now that you mention it:
The International Association of Geodesy (IAG) is a scientific organization in the field of geodesy. It promotes scientific cooperation and research in geodesy on a global scale and contributes to it through its various research bodies. It is an active member of the International Association of Geodesy and Geophysics (IUGG) which itself is a member of the International Council for Science (ICSU).
Abandon hope all ye who press enter here.

Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.

Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge. -- Charles Darwin

If you can't demonstrate it, then you shouldn't believe it.

geckothegeek

Re: What is the Advantage of a Globe Theory?
« Reply #6 on: August 01, 2015, 03:50:23 AM »
Isn't there a round Earth society you can go join?
Now that you mention it:
The International Association of Geodesy (IAG) is a scientific organization in the field of geodesy. It promotes scientific cooperation and research in geodesy on a global scale and contributes to it through its various research bodies. It is an active member of the International Association of Geodesy and Geophysics (IUGG) which itself is a member of the International Council for Science (ICSU).

Are there any Flat Earth Societies engaged in research such as this on a -quote- "planal"- scale ?

Uh Oh ! I just noticed a dirty word in that quote - "International Council for SCIENCE "!
« Last Edit: August 01, 2015, 04:07:00 AM by geckothegeek »

geckothegeek

Re: What is the Advantage of a Globe Theory?
« Reply #7 on: August 01, 2015, 04:16:54 AM »
I am sure I am not alone, but for those who have every day jobs it seems unbelievable that anyone would even think, much less believe, that the earth was flat.

Of course I am speaking of those of us who work or have worked in fields regarding aeronautical or naval navigation. Globe is not a theory. It is a fact. Flat earth is not even a theory.

Good to see you keep such an open mind.  ::)  I doubt many FEers will bother engaging in a conversation with you.  Isn't there a round Earth society you can go join?

jroa;Your signature line about the pancake and the orange is almost as bad as the one about Pope Innocent III and Hitler. I would be willing to bet that most second graders nowadays would choose the orange. Of course you might have to realize that most second graders have had a better education that most flat earthers .
« Last Edit: August 01, 2015, 04:31:09 PM by geckothegeek »

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Offline DoctorMoe

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Re: What is the Advantage of a Globe Theory?
« Reply #8 on: August 02, 2015, 12:44:49 AM »
FE-Explorer.
Your question wasn't really addressed. It got lost in the fuzz of unrelated debate.

Quote
My question is more philosophical that scientific however. I want to understand what would be gained (by the powers that be) from the "perception/belief" that the world is a globe vs. flat. What is to be gained (or lost) by that theory? I'm trying to understand who would really care and what impact does that have on our lives? It seems it  is extremely important that we believe it is a globe - to the extent of trillions of dollars in the space program over the years all being for show. That's a LOT of investment in something that isn't real so there must be some reason why its so important.

I had this very same question as I began to explore flat earth theory.
I wondered - What's the big deal? Why go through such trouble?

Here's what I have gathered doing a lot of research, listening to top videos of FE (sorry, there've been so many I do not recall exactly who said what to quote properly) and also from my own reflection.

So, the powers that be want to control the earth. that's not too hard to observe. I can see from your 9/11 comment that you're aware that the government is not out for the good of the people.
The powers that be are Luciferan - meaning their god is the Devil, essentially.
The basic activity of demonic energies is to thwart God's kingdom, plan, energies and "usurp the throne" so to speak.

By creating the notion of the globe earth, the earth goes from flat and geocentric, the center of our galaxy, to being
a speck in the great sea of the universe. And not just a speck but randomly created by spinning balls of gas, slowly over time from the big bang. And intelligent life, also the random selection and evolution over millions of years and many accidents. NO divine intent. No central importance of Earth.
A very fine dismissal of the overall importance of Earth, and... you guessed it... each of us on this planet.

This planet was created with very high intention by our Creator.
It was made to be flat and geocentric. Things revolve around us.
We're not going anywhere.
Therefore Globe earth theory (and I am not saying this about those who believe in it because they were taught it)
by the powers that be, I call them the Con Trolls, is to undermine this divine order and purpose for Earth
so that the notion of us careening through space, with random evolution since the dawn of time, undermines a Divine hand in the creation and purpose of Earth.

Atheism, is, in the end, the great plague of our time. The Devil loves to negate all belief in a Divine creator.
As Bob Dylan said "You gotta serve somebody. Well it may be the Devil and it may be the Lord, but you gotta serve someone."
By default, to believe in nothing, no Creator, is to leave a vacuum, void, into which the forces that wish to deny God's existence can enter.
I am not saying we need RELIGIOUS thinking. Just some nod of acknowledgment as to the endless beauty and majesty of this earth and the gift of life upon it, a true gift by nothing less than a Divine hand.

Flat Earth is a recognition of this Divine process.
Since I've recognized that are not a) spinning at 1000 mph b) careening around the sun through our solar system at ~67,000mph, and c) flying through our galaxy around Galactic Heart Center at God knows how many millions of miles per hour, I have found a greater level of peace... to go outside. to stand on the ground. To feel a stillness.



Whether flat or globe, the same important facts apply to Earth: God is One. God is Love. God is Good.

geckothegeek

Re: What is the Advantage of a Globe Theory?
« Reply #9 on: August 02, 2015, 05:06:08 AM »
Re:What is the Advantage of a Globe Theory ?

Elementary, My Dear Watson ! The Earth IS a Globe. It's not a theory. It's a fact.


If you don't believe in reality, there is really no use in trying to telling you why it isn't flat and why it is a Globe. Denial won't change reality. That is if you think you are smarter than all the astronomers in all the astronomical observatories in the world and you believe that everyone on earth except you and  the Flat Earth Society is part of a vast conspiracy.

Do not worry. Those who work in the real world will keep the whole world working according to the laws of science....Sailors, aviators, navigators, and everyone else.
« Last Edit: August 02, 2015, 05:15:14 AM by geckothegeek »

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Offline DoctorMoe

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Re: What is the Advantage of a Globe Theory?
« Reply #10 on: August 02, 2015, 01:23:28 PM »
Quote
Elementary, My Dear Watson ! The Earth IS a Globe. It's not a theory. It's a fact.
If you don't believe in reality, there is really no use in trying to telling you why it isn't flat and why it is a Globe. Denial won't change reality. That is if you think you are smarter than all the astronomers in all the astronomical observatories in the world and you believe that everyone on earth except you and  the Flat Earth Society is part of a vast conspiracy.

Do not worry. Those who work in the real world will keep the whole world working according to the laws of science....Sailors, aviators, navigators, and everyone else.

Really? That's your argument?
I don't mind debating, that's why I like this forum and not ridiculous spaces like Eric Dubay's forum, where they immediately ban someone for arguing against flat earth.
But really? This is what the globe earth community has?
"because it's reality. It's not a theory, it's a fact. If you don't believe in reality..."

FE-Explorer, I am sure that is a really satisfying answer to your initial question.
See mine.
Something profound to sink your teeth into.


Whether flat or globe, the same important facts apply to Earth: God is One. God is Love. God is Good.

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Offline markjo

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Re: What is the Advantage of a Globe Theory?
« Reply #11 on: August 02, 2015, 02:18:45 PM »
Perhaps another way of putting is that one of the biggest advantages of RET is having a working model that matches real world observations.
Abandon hope all ye who press enter here.

Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.

Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge. -- Charles Darwin

If you can't demonstrate it, then you shouldn't believe it.

geckothegeek

Re: What is the Advantage of a Globe Theory?
« Reply #12 on: August 02, 2015, 02:54:56 PM »
Well.....I was in the US Navy and we certainly knew the earth is a globe and we certainly didn't use any flat earth maps for navigation.

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Offline jroa

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Re: What is the Advantage of a Globe Theory?
« Reply #13 on: August 02, 2015, 02:59:30 PM »
Well.....I was in the US Navy and we certainly knew the earth is a globe and we certainly didn't use any flat earth maps for navigation.

You navigated using a globe? 

geckothegeek

Re: What is the Advantage of a Globe Theory?
« Reply #14 on: August 02, 2015, 03:31:09 PM »
jroa :Maps made from projections of a GLOBE !

Pray tell me that one of the only so-called " Unipolar Flat Earth Map" of the entire earth that has been presented on this website is not simply a copy of "The Azimuthal Equidistant Projection". Projection of what ? Answer: The globe.
« Last Edit: August 03, 2015, 01:07:03 AM by geckothegeek »

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Offline jroa

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Re: What is the Advantage of a Globe Theory?
« Reply #15 on: August 02, 2015, 03:35:22 PM »
I see.  So you navigated using flat maps, and this somehow proves that the Earth is a ball.  You seem to be a little delusional, IMHO. 

Offline Yendor

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Re: What is the Advantage of a Globe Theory?
« Reply #16 on: August 02, 2015, 03:45:09 PM »
Well.....I was in the US Navy and we certainly knew the earth is a globe and we certainly didn't use any flat earth maps for navigation.

I was in the navy too and I didn't see any globes on the bridge. Every map I saw was flat. In fact if you do some research they use to teach to navigate out to sea as if the world was flat.

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Offline LuggerSailor

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Re: What is the Advantage of a Globe Theory?
« Reply #17 on: August 02, 2015, 06:32:36 PM »
Well.....I was in the US Navy and we certainly knew the earth is a globe and we certainly didn't use any flat earth maps for navigation.

I was in the navy too and I didn't see any globes on the bridge. Every map I saw was flat. In fact if you do some research they use to teach to navigate out to sea as if the world was flat.
No they don't - http://www.sailtrain.co.uk/navigation/rising.htm

Also, the charts are flat but they're a projection of the globe.
LuggerSailor.
Sailor and Navigator.

Offline Yendor

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Re: What is the Advantage of a Globe Theory?
« Reply #18 on: August 02, 2015, 07:15:43 PM »
Well.....I was in the US Navy and we certainly knew the earth is a globe and we certainly didn't use any flat earth maps for navigation.

I was in the navy too and I didn't see any globes on the bridge. Every map I saw was flat. In fact if you do some research they use to teach to navigate out to sea as if the world was flat.
No they don't - http://www.sailtrain.co.uk/navigation/rising.htm

Also, the charts are flat but they're a projection of the globe.

Yes, it is called plane sailing

Offline Yendor

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Re: What is the Advantage of a Globe Theory?
« Reply #19 on: August 02, 2015, 08:33:33 PM »
Well.....I was in the US Navy and we certainly knew the earth is a globe and we certainly didn't use any flat earth maps for navigation.

Why being in the navy convinces you we live on a globe? I too was in the navy stationed on a ship for six years and i'm not convinced we live on a globe. If you where to remove all you ever heard about NASA, would you still be convince you live on a globe based on what you observe around you? If so, can you please give me some examples?