Offline Wulf

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Re: Reasons for believing the Earth is round
« Reply #160 on: April 10, 2015, 12:54:57 AM »
How is gravity a simple explanation?

If you fall off a chair, what's the simplest explanation? A mysterious particle that sucks you to the Earth that is unobservable, or that the Earth is actually meeting you as you fall? Which one requires less made up stuff?

If you fall of a chair, what's the simplest explanation? a mysterious medium that pushes the earth toward you? or a force that is pulling you down? Which requires more made up stuff?

This debate cannot be concluded with statements of opinion. opinion is something we disagree on fundamentally. it probably isn't a good idea to expect people to see the world the way you do... pun intended.

the aether requires us to assume that the way we see the sun is a mirage, this is an assumption. it also assumes that the earth is accelerating upwards. there is also the assumption  that the reason we don't see the bottom parts of things as we cross the horizon is because of mirage effects or the bulging of the ocean, or something that else that causes what we see to not truly be as we see it. I have yet to see experimental evidence that suggests these observations are not what we seem to observe.

if you are going to attempt to persuade me you have to do it with experimental evidence.

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Re: Reasons for believing the Earth is round
« Reply #161 on: April 10, 2015, 01:14:37 AM »
Aether is the same as dark matter. Why don't you have an issue with that? Seems like you're being selective about what you criticize.

Offline Wulf

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Re: Reasons for believing the Earth is round
« Reply #162 on: April 10, 2015, 02:07:31 AM »
Aether is the same as dark matter. Why don't you have an issue with that? Seems like you're being selective about what you criticize.
i do have a problem with dark matter. dark matter is a proposed explanation for something not understood. there are current theories that are being tossed around that are alternative to dark matter. i'm even cautious to call dark matter a theory rather than a hypothesis. but dark matter is only relevant at extremely large scales, something that the FE theory disagrees on entirely(correct me if i'm wrong). 

the thing is, the current FE model leaves some things unexplained as well. However, i'd much rather take things one step at a time. I already know about the RE model; I want to know about the FE model. i'm asking questions in a logical manner. do you think i should make a separate thread for that?

i'll have to continue this tomorrow.

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Offline markjo

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Re: Reasons for believing the Earth is round
« Reply #163 on: April 10, 2015, 02:24:11 AM »
Aether is the same as dark matter.
No, it isn't.  Dark matter is believed to have its own gravitational influence (mass warps space-time).  If aether is accelerating the FE, then it would be closer to dark energy (which is believed to be cause of the accelerating expansion of the universe).
Abandon hope all ye who press enter here.

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Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge. -- Charles Darwin

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Offline Rama Set

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Re: Reasons for believing the Earth is round
« Reply #164 on: April 10, 2015, 02:47:23 AM »
How is gravity a simple explanation?

If you fall off a chair, what's the simplest explanation? A mysterious particle that sucks you to the Earth that is unobservable, or that the Earth is actually meeting you as you fall? Which one requires less made up stuff?


The graviton is not yet part of either QM or GR why are you including it?
Th*rk is the worst person on this website.

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Offline Rama Set

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Re: Reasons for believing the Earth is round
« Reply #165 on: April 10, 2015, 02:48:57 AM »
Aether is the same as dark matter. Why don't you have an issue with that? Seems like you're being selective about what you criticize.

There is data giving 3 sigma confidence in the observation of WIMPs. Does the Aether have any sort of data supporting it?
Th*rk is the worst person on this website.

Offline Wulf

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Re: Reasons for believing the Earth is round
« Reply #166 on: April 10, 2015, 11:35:15 AM »
How is gravity a simple explanation?

If you fall off a chair, what's the simplest explanation? A mysterious particle that sucks you to the Earth that is unobservable, or that the Earth is actually meeting you as you fall? Which one requires less made up stuff?


The graviton is not yet part of either QM or GR why are you including it?

the graviton is part of the standard model. it is something the model predicts but has yet to be observed. other particles that were predicted and then observed include the higgs boson. I could ask why do you include aether without any observational evidence to support it. it relies on what we see to be mirage effects, yet how do we know these observations are the result of mirage effects?
« Last Edit: April 10, 2015, 11:36:46 AM by Wulf »

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Offline jroa

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Re: Reasons for believing the Earth is round
« Reply #167 on: April 10, 2015, 12:30:17 PM »
How is gravity a simple explanation?

If you fall off a chair, what's the simplest explanation? A mysterious particle that sucks you to the Earth that is unobservable, or that the Earth is actually meeting you as you fall? Which one requires less made up stuff?


The graviton is not yet part of either QM or GR why are you including it?

It is part of QFT, though.

Aether is the same as dark matter. Why don't you have an issue with that? Seems like you're being selective about what you criticize.

There is data giving 3 sigma confidence in the observation of WIMPs. Does the Aether have any sort of data supporting it?

Aether has Omega 3 fatty acids.  Can you beat that?

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Offline Rama Set

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Re: Reasons for believing the Earth is round
« Reply #168 on: April 10, 2015, 12:44:32 PM »
How is gravity a simple explanation?

If you fall off a chair, what's the simplest explanation? A mysterious particle that sucks you to the Earth that is unobservable, or that the Earth is actually meeting you as you fall? Which one requires less made up stuff?


The graviton is not yet part of either QM or GR why are you including it?

the graviton is part of the standard model. it is something the model predicts but has yet to be observed. other particles that were predicted and then observed include the higgs boson. I could ask why do you include aether without any observational evidence to support it. it relies on what we see to be mirage effects, yet how do we know these observations are the result of mirage effects?

I think you are misreading me. I don't believe in Æther because there is no good reason to.
Th*rk is the worst person on this website.

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Offline Rama Set

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Re: Reasons for believing the Earth is round
« Reply #169 on: April 10, 2015, 12:45:20 PM »
How is gravity a simple explanation?

If you fall off a chair, what's the simplest explanation? A mysterious particle that sucks you to the Earth that is unobservable, or that the Earth is actually meeting you as you fall? Which one requires less made up stuff?


The graviton is not yet part of either QM or GR why are you including it?

It is part of QFT, though.

Aether is the same as dark matter. Why don't you have an issue with that? Seems like you're being selective about what you criticize.

There is data giving 3 sigma confidence in the observation of WIMPs. Does the Aether have any sort of data supporting it?

Aether has Omega 3 fatty acids.  Can you beat that?

Chia seeds bro... Chia seeds.
Th*rk is the worst person on this website.

Offline Wulf

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Re: Reasons for believing the Earth is round
« Reply #170 on: April 10, 2015, 02:25:28 PM »


I think you are misreading me. I don't believe in Æther because there is no good reason to.

sorry. that's what i get for doing this right when i wake up in the morning. god damnit.

Wow, you detective skills are exquisite.  I could have used you last week when I lost my keys.

Seriously, have you ever thought you were right, later to figure out that you were wrong?  Or, maybe your indoctrination prevents you from realizing that you have been lied to. 

Indoctrination shouldn't be an issue here. You can't just claim that all experimental evidence that disagrees with you is intentionally falsified. you have to explain why it is wrong. anomolies can't take down a theory when that theory successfully predicts observable phenomenon. It only means there's something we've yet to find out. besides wikipedia isn't exactly the most reliable of sources. the aether alone does not explain the movement of the planets.

I am still waiting for any experimental evidence conducted by FE scientists. so far the closest thing i've heard about this is 'we have conducted experiments.'

Re: Reasons for believing the Earth is round
« Reply #171 on: April 16, 2015, 03:50:28 AM »
I don't, just as many don't either, understand how the sunset and sunrise function on a flat earth, but all I know is that, it IS Flat, and this was just proven by NASA itself during the latest rocket-launch yesterday, April 14th 2015. Watch the video and advance it to the 20:18:55 time on rocket flight timer, there you will see, (AS PROOF!) that the earth is indeed FLAT!!!! They try to hide it as soon as they realize the fish-eye lens is not doing its job to trick us, and they also see what the flight's real-live video is showing, which is what the earth REALLY looks like, so they try to hide it by switching back to command post right after the 20:18:55 flight-time, they then switch back to where we again can see the FLAT earth horizon, but again only for a few seconds, cause then they switch back to command post where you can see all the phonies pretending to be monitoring the flight, which couldn't be further from the TRUTH. At that particular time, you can CLEARLY see how the earth's horizon really looks like, and which is as straight as a ruler. Check it out and see for yourselves. To me at least, that right there proves the earth is FLAT!...even though I still don't understand how on the flat earth the sunset and sunrise work as I said in the beginning? Anyway, it all just happened on the 14th of this week, so how can anyone dispute it when it is straight from NASSSSAAAAAAA, the Narcissistic ASS Administration!!!!!...

Re: Reasons for believing the Earth is round
« Reply #172 on: April 16, 2015, 09:20:21 PM »
I'd like to ask why it is that flat earthers believe that FET is simpler than RET? A flat earth theory simply doesn't seem to be as supported by evidence, and the only way to disregard such experiments is by claiming conspiracy. It simply seems that RET makes more sense, has a theory as to how the world was created, etc. Please be polite and courteous in replies, as it is clear standards of politeness have slipped slightly on both sides of this thread.

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Reasons for believing the Earth is round
« Reply #173 on: April 18, 2015, 05:04:35 PM »
http://wiki.tfes.org/Occam%27s_Razor

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Occam's Razor asks us which explanation makes the least number of assumptions. The explanation which makes the least number of assumptions is the simplest explanation. Occam's Razor works in favor of the Flat Earth Theory. Several examples exist below.

What's the simplest explanation; that my experience of existing upon a plane wherever I go and whatever I do is a massive illusion, that my eyes are constantly deceiving me and that I am actually looking at the enormous sphere of the earth spinning through space at tens of thousands of miles an hour, whirling in perpetual epicycles around the universe; or is the simplest explanation that my eyes are not playing tricks on me and that the earth is exactly as it appears?

What's the simplest explanation; that NASA has successfully designed and invented never before seen rocket technologies from scratch which can accelerate 100 tons of matter straight up at 7 miles per second, and that NASA can do the impossible on a daily basis, explore the solar system, and constantly wow the nation by landing a man on the moon and sending robots to mars; or is the simplest explanation that they really can't do all of that stuff?

When I walk off the edge of a three foot drop off and go into free fall while observing the surface of the earth carefully the earth appears to accelerate up towards me. What's the simplest explanation; that there exists hypothetical undiscovered Graviton particles emanating from the earth which accelerates my body towards the surface through unexplained quantum effects; or is the simplest explanation that this mysterious highly theoretical mechanism does not exist and the earth has just accelerated upwards towards me exactly as I've observed?

What's the simplest explanation; that when I look up and see the sun slowly move across the sky over the course of the day, that the globe earth is spinning at over a thousand miles per hour - faster than the speed of sound at the equator - despite me being unable able to feel this centripetal acceleration, or is the simplest explanation that the sun itself is just moving across the sky exactly as I have observed?

What's the simplest explanation; that the sun, moon, and stars are enormous bodies of unimaginable mass, size, and distances which represent frontiers to a vast and infinite unknowable universe teeming with alien worlds, black holes, quasars and nebulae, and phenomena only conceivable in science fiction; or is the simplest explanation that the universe isn't so large or unknown and when we look up at the stars we are just looking at small points of light in the sky exactly they appear to be?

Re: Reasons for believing the Earth is round
« Reply #174 on: April 18, 2015, 05:28:33 PM »
This wiki simplifies what it wants to in order to skew the facts. Prime  example: the NASA section. It should be "what is simpler to believe? A country with an immediate history of using rockets (ww2,they used the German scientists that designed the v2 rocket) poured enormous amounts of money (1.4% gdp at the height) in order to compete with the other most powerful country in the world, as they have on many other occasions (see Vietnam and Korean war, Greek civil war, etc.), and after decades, managed to land men on the moon, or the other view: in order to compete with said rivals, the country used video trickery software they simply didn't have, had an organisation so  secret that no one can provide proper proof of fakery, pretended to continue the "space missions" long after the conclusion of the cold war, and silenced anyone who spoke against them? When you say it in a different way , occam's razor simply doesn't apply.

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Offline Pete Svarrior

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Re: Reasons for believing the Earth is round
« Reply #175 on: April 18, 2015, 05:39:02 PM »
no one can provide proper proof of fakery
lol
Read the FAQ before asking your question - chances are we already addressed it.
Follow the Flat Earth Society on Twitter and Facebook!

P.S.  All of us illiterate folks understood this the first time.


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Offline markjo

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Re: Reasons for believing the Earth is round
« Reply #177 on: April 18, 2015, 06:01:41 PM »
http://wiki.tfes.org/Occam%27s_Razor

Quote
Occam's Razor asks us which explanation makes the least number of assumptions. The explanation which makes the least number of assumptions is the simplest explanation.
Which is the simpler explanation for the setting sun: that the sun is actually moving below the horizon or that the sun appears to move below the horizon because of some unknown trick of perspective or the bending of light by some mysterious aether?
Abandon hope all ye who press enter here.

Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.

Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge. -- Charles Darwin

If you can't demonstrate it, then you shouldn't believe it.

#firePete

Re: Reasons for believing the Earth is round
« Reply #178 on: April 18, 2015, 06:07:46 PM »
http://wiki.tfes.org/Occam%27s_Razor

Quote
Occam's Razor asks us which explanation makes the least number of assumptions. The explanation which makes the least number of assumptions is the simplest explanation.
Which is the simpler explanation for the setting sun: that the sun is actually moving below the horizon or that the sun appears to move below the horizon because of some unknown trick of perspective or the bending of light by some mysterious aether?
Even better, what is a better explanation for not being able to see America from a tall building in Europe? The earth is in the way, or vanishing point combined with aethric winds combined with air translucency?

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Offline Pete Svarrior

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Re: Reasons for believing the Earth is round
« Reply #179 on: April 18, 2015, 07:20:04 PM »
no one can provide proper proof of fakery
lol
Please read this:
http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=63358.0#.VTKXxolwbqA
Frankly, I don't care what's going on on the other forum. It's just a circle-jerk of RE'ers talking about how smart they think they are.
Read the FAQ before asking your question - chances are we already addressed it.
Follow the Flat Earth Society on Twitter and Facebook!

P.S.  All of us illiterate folks understood this the first time.