Offline feynman

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How many people really know the truth ?
« on: December 22, 2014, 11:03:30 PM »
The FET view is clearly based on a conspiracy. But how many people really know the truth ? I can't imagine that the thousands of people that work on satellite don't know that the things they are building doesn't exist...

Ghost of V

Re: How many people really know the truth ?
« Reply #1 on: December 22, 2014, 11:38:46 PM »
FET is not based around a conspiracy. It is based around the zetetic method, which bases its conclusions on experimentation and observation.

The Earth is obviously flat. I can see that with my own two eyes. That's where Flat Earth Theory starts

Also, what makes you so skeptical of a conspiracy? You are aware of Watergate, right? What about the Manhattan Project? Both examples of the government keeping the truth from the public, quite successfully in the case of latter.

Rama Set

Re: How many people really know the truth ?
« Reply #2 on: December 23, 2014, 02:24:00 AM »
FET is not based around a conspiracy. It is based around the zetetic method, which bases its conclusions on experimentation and observation.

The Earth is obviously flat. I can see that with my own two eyes. That's where Flat Earth Theory starts

Also, what makes you so skeptical of a conspiracy? You are aware of Watergate, right? What about the Manhattan Project? Both examples of the government keeping the truth from the public, quite successfully in the case of latter.

FET requires a NASA conspiracy. Otherwise you have to take them at their word which means the Earth has been directly observed as spherical. Claiming otherwise would seriously undermine your position.

Offline feynman

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Re: How many people really know the truth ?
« Reply #3 on: December 23, 2014, 10:36:35 AM »
OK about watergate  but... this not really the same scale !! I mean that if the Earth were really flat, many many people know about it right ?
And when i said "is based on the conspiracy", it was about the fact that one of your key argument is that there is a conspiracy (cf FAQ)

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Offline Lemmiwinks

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Re: How many people really know the truth ?
« Reply #4 on: December 23, 2014, 04:19:31 PM »
The FET view is clearly based on a conspiracy. But how many people really know the truth ? I can't imagine that the thousands of people that work on satellite don't know that the things they are building doesn't exist...

Every world government with a space program would need to be lying, lets say a million people all together that would be involved or have to handle the evidence that needs to be hidden.

Every airline would need to be in on it, along with every airline manufacturer and every airport authority/operator, due to the fact airplanes would need to either fly faster, due circles or other odd things to maintain the "lie" of the round earth, call it another million people.

Every scientist would need to be lying, there are roughly 8 million of them.

Every satellite company for TV, GPS and internet would be lying, call it another million people.

Every cell phone company would be lying, call it a million for all the world, but also every agency that has to inspect and regulate them and their activities would have to be lying, so another million.

Every shipping company would be lying, due again to distance between objects being one thing on a round earth and another on a flat earth, so they must be lying about their travel time, and all relative people that handle that information, the people working the boats, and ports and all that good stuff, plus of course the fact they use GPS to navigate. Call it another million for arguments sake.

We can keep going, but at 14 million people already we can see that keeping "the secret" becomes pretty damned unlikely, especially over the couple hundred years that a round earth model has been accepted as standard. /shrug
Scepti is the most eminent flat earth scientist of our generation, he's never even heard of you clowns.

Ghost of V

Re: How many people really know the truth ?
« Reply #5 on: December 23, 2014, 05:37:20 PM »
The FET view is clearly based on a conspiracy. But how many people really know the truth ? I can't imagine that the thousands of people that work on satellite don't know that the things they are building doesn't exist...

Every world government with a space program would need to be lying, lets say a million people all together that would be involved or have to handle the evidence that needs to be hidden.

Every airline would need to be in on it, along with every airline manufacturer and every airport authority/operator, due to the fact airplanes would need to either fly faster, due circles or other odd things to maintain the "lie" of the round earth, call it another million people.

Every scientist would need to be lying, there are roughly 8 million of them.

Every satellite company for TV, GPS and internet would be lying, call it another million people.

Every cell phone company would be lying, call it a million for all the world, but also every agency that has to inspect and regulate them and their activities would have to be lying, so another million.

Every shipping company would be lying, due again to distance between objects being one thing on a round earth and another on a flat earth, so they must be lying about their travel time, and all relative people that handle that information, the people working the boats, and ports and all that good stuff, plus of course the fact they use GPS to navigate. Call it another million for arguments sake.

We can keep going, but at 14 million people already we can see that keeping "the secret" becomes pretty damned unlikely, especially over the couple hundred years that a round earth model has been accepted as standard. /shrug

This is completely inaccurate. Please don't poison the well with your ill-founded assumptions.

Rama Set

Re: How many people really know the truth ?
« Reply #6 on: December 23, 2014, 05:49:04 PM »
The assumptions are not ill-founded just not terribly conservative. Assuming 100% of people know anything is never a good idea. He also was not poisoning the well really since he did not say anything particularly derogatory about FET.

Ghost of V

Re: How many people really know the truth ?
« Reply #7 on: December 23, 2014, 06:09:44 PM »
Every scientist? Not every scientist studies space or anything related to the shape of the Earth.

Cell phone companies? They use sonar-based transmitters, weather balloons, stratellites, and cell-towers. No lying required here.

Satellite companies? Also not lying. They use stratellites and terrestrial transmitters.

Shipping companies? If Lemmiwinks knew anything about circumnavigation or FET in general he'd know that they wouldn't need to lie about anything. It's not like geography magically changes depending on what worldview you subscribe to.

Airlines? They use on-board equipment for flight that is mostly an automated process. No lying required.


The governments of the world? Probably lying, yes. But what are they not lying about? Are you familiar with Snowden? I find it hard to believe that RE'ers can take themselves so seriously about denying the conspiracy when damning evidence has come out recently that shows that the government (at least, the United States government) is lying and spying on it's own people everyday. The denial is hilarious and really does not help your case. Just makes you look silly at this point.
« Last Edit: December 23, 2014, 06:13:18 PM by Vauxhall »

Rama Set

Re: How many people really know the truth ?
« Reply #8 on: December 23, 2014, 06:23:31 PM »
Every scientist? Not every scientist studies space or anything related to the shape of the Earth.

Cell phone companies? They use sonar-based transmitters, weather balloons, stratellites, and cell-towers. No lying required here.

Satellite companies? Also not lying. They use stratellites and terrestrial transmitters.

Shipping companies? If Lemmiwinks knew anything about circumnavigation or FET in general he'd know that they wouldn't need to lie about anything. It's not like geography magically changes depending on what worldview you subscribe to.

Airlines? They use on-board equipment for flight that is mostly an automated process. No lying required.


The governments of the world? Probably lying, yes. But what are they not lying about? Are you familiar with Snowden? I find it hard to believe that RE'ers can take themselves so seriously about denying the conspiracy when damning evidence has come out recently that shows that the government (at least, the United States government) is lying and spying on it's own people everyday. The denial is hilarious and really does not help your case. Just makes you look silly at this point.

What is silly is the number of factoids you just straight-up concocted in this post.

Ghost of V

Re: How many people really know the truth ?
« Reply #9 on: December 23, 2014, 06:25:25 PM »
Every scientist? Not every scientist studies space or anything related to the shape of the Earth.

Cell phone companies? They use sonar-based transmitters, weather balloons, stratellites, and cell-towers. No lying required here.

Satellite companies? Also not lying. They use stratellites and terrestrial transmitters.

Shipping companies? If Lemmiwinks knew anything about circumnavigation or FET in general he'd know that they wouldn't need to lie about anything. It's not like geography magically changes depending on what worldview you subscribe to.

Airlines? They use on-board equipment for flight that is mostly an automated process. No lying required.


The governments of the world? Probably lying, yes. But what are they not lying about? Are you familiar with Snowden? I find it hard to believe that RE'ers can take themselves so seriously about denying the conspiracy when damning evidence has come out recently that shows that the government (at least, the United States government) is lying and spying on it's own people everyday. The denial is hilarious and really does not help your case. Just makes you look silly at this point.

What is silly is the number of factoids you just straight-up concocted in this post.


Typical RE avoidance maneuver.

Rama Set

Re: How many people really know the truth ?
« Reply #10 on: December 23, 2014, 06:37:01 PM »
Every scientist? Not every scientist studies space or anything related to the shape of the Earth.

Cell phone companies? They use sonar-based transmitters, weather balloons, stratellites, and cell-towers. No lying required here.

Satellite companies? Also not lying. They use stratellites and terrestrial transmitters.

Shipping companies? If Lemmiwinks knew anything about circumnavigation or FET in general he'd know that they wouldn't need to lie about anything. It's not like geography magically changes depending on what worldview you subscribe to.

Airlines? They use on-board equipment for flight that is mostly an automated process. No lying required.


The governments of the world? Probably lying, yes. But what are they not lying about? Are you familiar with Snowden? I find it hard to believe that RE'ers can take themselves so seriously about denying the conspiracy when damning evidence has come out recently that shows that the government (at least, the United States government) is lying and spying on it's own people everyday. The denial is hilarious and really does not help your case. Just makes you look silly at this point.

What is silly is the number of factoids you just straight-up concocted in this post.


Typical RE avoidance maneuver.

I tend not to bother with silly claims equating sonar with radio.

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Offline Rushy

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Re: How many people really know the truth ?
« Reply #11 on: December 23, 2014, 06:38:53 PM »
I tend not to bother with silly claims equating sonar with radio.

It's true, though. Ever noticed that cell phones used to have huge antennas? Now they don't need them because the microphone acts as the antenna.

Rama Set

Re: How many people really know the truth ?
« Reply #12 on: December 23, 2014, 06:44:13 PM »
I tend not to bother with silly claims equating sonar with radio.

It's true, though. Ever noticed that cell phones used to have huge antennas? Now they don't need them because the microphone acts as the antenna.

That would be a great story if it were true.

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Offline Rushy

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Re: How many people really know the truth ?
« Reply #13 on: December 23, 2014, 06:51:40 PM »
That would be a great story if it were true.

Clearly we can't count you among the enlightened few.

Ghost of V

Re: How many people really know the truth ?
« Reply #14 on: December 23, 2014, 06:52:20 PM »
Typical RE avoidance maneuver.

No evidence. No refutations. Just "not true". Really amazing, Rama. You'd make a great RE scientist.

How about not responding if you don't have anything substantial to add? Ever thought of that?

Rama Set

Re: How many people really know the truth ?
« Reply #15 on: December 23, 2014, 06:54:41 PM »
Typical RE avoidance maneuver.

No evidence. No refutations. Just "not true". Really amazing, Rama. You'd make a great scientist.

How about not responding if you don't have anything substantial to add? Ever thought of that?

make you a deal. You substantiate your multiple claims and I will rebut them.

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Offline Lemmiwinks

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Re: How many people really know the truth ?
« Reply #16 on: December 23, 2014, 06:54:55 PM »
Every scientist? Not every scientist studies space or anything related to the shape of the Earth.

Cell phone companies? They use sonar-based transmitters, weather balloons, stratellites, and cell-towers. No lying required here.

Satellite companies? Also not lying. They use stratellites and terrestrial transmitters.

Shipping companies? If Lemmiwinks knew anything about circumnavigation or FET in general he'd know that they wouldn't need to lie about anything. It's not like geography magically changes depending on what worldview you subscribe to.

Airlines? They use on-board equipment for flight that is mostly an automated process. No lying required.


The governments of the world? Probably lying, yes. But what are they not lying about? Are you familiar with Snowden? I find it hard to believe that RE'ers can take themselves so seriously about denying the conspiracy when damning evidence has come out recently that shows that the government (at least, the United States government) is lying and spying on it's own people everyday. The denial is hilarious and really does not help your case. Just makes you look silly at this point.

Everything you just said makes you look far sillier than I looked with general round numbers to prove a point.

So now even though according to you we can't go to space... there are satellites? What are those? How do they work? How do they stay in orbit and how did we put them there?

I am sorry, I missed the fact its stratillite. Nothing silly about that :P, I digress on this point to save breath.

Also please, do explain how circumnavigation works on a flat planet in a way that the people doing the navigation have no clue they are on a flat planet instead of a round one.

Also I see you still haven't responded to the post you said you would from earlier.

Typical fe'r avoidance maneuver.
« Last Edit: December 23, 2014, 07:03:15 PM by Lemmiwinks »
Scepti is the most eminent flat earth scientist of our generation, he's never even heard of you clowns.

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Offline Lemmiwinks

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Re: How many people really know the truth ?
« Reply #17 on: December 23, 2014, 06:55:20 PM »
Typical RE avoidance maneuver.

No evidence. No refutations. Just "not true". Really amazing, Rama. You'd make a great RE scientist.

How about not responding if you don't have anything substantial to add? Ever thought of that?

My new favorite thing.

quod gratis asseritur, gratis negatur

Not our place to prove jack squat, the onus is on you.
Scepti is the most eminent flat earth scientist of our generation, he's never even heard of you clowns.

Ghost of V

Re: How many people really know the truth ?
« Reply #18 on: December 23, 2014, 07:03:08 PM »
Typical RE avoidance maneuver.

No evidence. No refutations. Just "not true". Really amazing, Rama. You'd make a great scientist.

How about not responding if you don't have anything substantial to add? Ever thought of that?

make you a deal. You substantiate your multiple claims and I will rebut them.

Do you really need me to teach you how a plane's instruments work? Or a cell tower? C'mon now. This is basic stuff.

And do I really need to substantiate my claim that "not every scientist studies the shape of the Earth". Really? If you think every field of study has something to do with the shape of the Earth then you might  need to rethink your ability to argue with the big dogs here in the upper fora.

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Offline Lemmiwinks

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Re: How many people really know the truth ?
« Reply #19 on: December 23, 2014, 07:05:17 PM »
Typical RE avoidance maneuver.

No evidence. No refutations. Just "not true". Really amazing, Rama. You'd make a great scientist.

How about not responding if you don't have anything substantial to add? Ever thought of that?

make you a deal. You substantiate your multiple claims and I will rebut them.

Do you really need me to teach you how a plane's instruments work? Or a cell tower? C'mon now. This is basic stuff.

And do I really need to substantiate my claim that "not every scientist studies the shape of the Earth". Really? If you think every field of study has something to do with the shape of the Earth then you might  need to rethink your ability to argue with the big dogs here in the upper fora.

Nope, ok so show us a group of scientists, accredited ones that hold positions, have peer reviewed papers that say the earth is flat.

If my claim that all 8 million scientists is radically off, then you should be able to show me a significant portion of them that say so. I dont care what field they are in, could be fluffy bunny studies, you just have to show me they think the earth is flat.
Scepti is the most eminent flat earth scientist of our generation, he's never even heard of you clowns.