[Particle Person]

Yeah, Tomothy - you're making it sound like nature was generous enough to provide every human with the means to defeat every ailment given that they supplement their bodies with enough vitamins. That simply isn't true. The body can always fight back in some way, but in some cases it's simply impossible for it to win.

[Ghost of V]

The healing properties of colloidal silver have never been documented in any reputable medical journal. Ever. The beneficial effects of silver, if there are any, are not known. In 1915 there was an article about the concoction being able to treat tumors, but even that is unconfirmed.  Regardless of what you say, argyria has been reported recently, although it is not common. It is just a cosmetic side-effect, but there are other more serious side-effects associated with colloidal silver: like seizures and kidney failure.

Once again, the risks outweigh the reward.

Also, the FDA proposed to ban the use of colloidal silver or silver salts in over-the-counter products in October 1996 because of these reasons and others.

[Rama Set]

You are assuming, without good evidence, that there is no upper bound to the immune system's ability to fight off infection.

The upper bounds to the body's ability to fight off disease is unknown, but we know that people with Stage 4 cancer, on the deathbeds and given 2 weeks to live, have seen complete turn around cures via Vitamin C.

Some people at that stage, on the other hand, have not been cured. Whether their immune systems were too weak and crippled by any chemotherapy they had done, the disease, or whether they just didn't get enough Vitamin C, is unknown.

Or whether you can even get enough Vitamin to significantly impact a serious disease, or whether Vitamin C even does what you claim it does.  We don't know do we?  Your reliance on anecdotes is not doing any favors either.

What do you do about infection's that trick the immune system in to thinking that it is not an infection?  What do you do about an infection that kills the immune system?

Secondly, infections don't trick the immune system into thinking that it is not an infection.

Incorrect.  Dengue Fever tricks the immune system.  It is well studied and understood.  (inb4bigpharmaisbehindthelies)

http://www.nature.com/scitable/topicpage/host-response-to-the-dengue-virus-22402106

What do you do about an infection that kills the immune system?

If your immune system were killed off you would be dead within 20 minutes. Nothing can be done, because you are a gonner.

An exaggeration, but yes, and they do exist, like AIDS.  You can live longer than 20 minutes, but you need to be in a clean room.

[Ghost of V]

If you have have questions about the FDA ban on colloidal silver, here's a great reference from the FDA themselves...

http://www.fda.gov/ohrms/dockets/98fr/081799a.txt

Here's a direct quote:

"The Food and Drug Administration (FDA) is issuing a final rule establishing that all over-the-counter (OTC) drug products containing colloidal silver ingredients or silver salts for internal or external use are not generally recognized as safe and effective and are misbranded. FDA is issuing this final rule because many OTC drug products containing colloidal silver ingredients or silver salts are being marketed for numerous serious disease conditions and FDA is not aware of any substantial scientific evidence that supports the use of OTC colloidal silver ingredients or silver salts for these disease conditions."


What do you think about this, Tom?

[markjo]

This idea that Vitamin C cures all sounds an awful lot like the phosphorus tonic that Dr. Birley used to push back in the day.

I see no reason to believe that phosphorous cannot cure a disease.

As I recall, Dr. Birley's claimed that phosphorous could cure pretty much every disease.  In fact, countless snake oil salesmen pushed patent medicines that were hailed as cures for whatever ails you.  Why should anyone trust your claims of vitamin c's almost magical curative abilities when there have been countless testimonials for these earlier cure-alls?

[Tom Bishop]

The healing properties of colloidal silver have never been documented in any reputable medical journal. Ever. The beneficial effects of silver, if there are any, are not known. In 1915 there was an article about the concoction being able to treat tumors, but even that is unconfirmed.  Regardless of what you say, argyria has been reported recently, although it is not common. It is just a cosmetic side-effect, but there are other more serious side-effects associated with colloidal silver: like seizures and kidney failure.

Once again, the risks outweigh the reward.

Also, the FDA proposed to ban the use of colloidal silver or silver salts in over-the-counter products in October 1996 because of these reasons and others.

That's funny. A simple google search of "collidial silver studies" shows that there are plenty of studies. At the bottom of this article we see references to studies from universities showing that Collidial Silver can treat deadly antibiotic-resistant MSRA infections.

If you have have questions about the FDA ban on colloidal silver, here's a great reference from the FDA themselves...

http://www.fda.gov/ohrms/dockets/98fr/081799a.txt

Here's a direct quote:

"The Food and Drug Administration (FDA) is issuing a final rule establishing that all over-the-counter (OTC) drug products containing colloidal silver ingredients or silver salts for internal or external use are not generally recognized as safe and effective and are misbranded. FDA is issuing this final rule because many OTC drug products containing colloidal silver ingredients or silver salts are being marketed for numerous serious disease conditions and FDA is not aware of any substantial scientific evidence that supports the use of OTC colloidal silver ingredients or silver salts for these disease conditions."


What do you think about this, Tom?

That the FDA means is that no modern studies have been published in the big pharmaceutical research journals. That is because, surprise surprise, pharmaceutical research is funded by the pharmaceutical companies. Conducting research on a substance that serves no profit, and results only in competition to their existing products would not get out of the gate.

See: http://www.thesilveredge.com/before1940.shtml#.VCysefldU1I

Medical bureaucrats and other colloidal silver naysayers routinely claim that the modern-day use of colloidal silver constitutes “risk without benefit.”

They go on to claim ad nauseum that there’s no modern medical or scientific evidence for the efficacy of colloidal silver.

What They Omit

What the naysayers always fail to state is that there’s a very good reason for the dearth of modern medical and scientific research on behalf of colloidal silver:

The medical community has simply refused to conduct any significant new large-scale research on colloidal silver since the first patented antibiotic drug (penicillin) came into widespread medical usage in 1940.

In fact, since the advent of prescription antibiotic drugs, the medical community has not conducted any significant medical research on any natural substances with infection-fighting qualities, except for those they could synthesize and turn into patentable drugs.

The bottom of that article lists some older studies which have appeared in reputable research journals.

[Saddam Hussein]

Also, remember that James has given us multiple firsthand accounts of the medical benefits of phosphorus.

[markjo]

It seems that the colloidal silver cartel is just as greedy as big pharma:

Yes, that's right. It costs them about five cents to make four ounces worth of colloidal silver, yet greedy colloidal silver vendors charge you anywhere from $29 to $59 for that same tiny amount!

That's a whopping 60,000% mark-up on every bottle sold. No other nutritional supplement on earth is so cheap to make, yet so expensive to buy.

[Tom Bishop]

Yeah, Tomothy - you're making it sound like nature was generous enough to provide every human with the means to defeat every ailment given that they supplement their bodies with enough vitamins. That simply isn't true. The body can always fight back in some way, but in some cases it's simply impossible for it to win.

Since the body always fights diseases in some way, as you claim, then it makes sense that if you can identify the ammunition the body uses to fight disease, which there would be a shortage of in a crisis, the body's disease-fighting capabilities can be enhanced.

Or whether you can even get enough Vitamin to significantly impact a serious disease, or whether Vitamin C even does what you claim it does.  We don't know do we?  Your reliance on anecdotes is not doing any favors either.

People have been cured of cancer. I've shown a video of a doctor who states that pancreatic cancer patients in his clinic who had a 1% survival rate were cured. Maybe they were actually cured by the yoga they've been doing in their spare time?

Here is a man who was told by his doctors to go home and die. He was at Stage 4 and given a death sentence. After being put on Vitamin C IVs he recovered.

Incorrect.  Dengue Fever tricks the immune system.  It is well studied and understood.  (inb4bigpharmaisbehindthelies)

http://www.nature.com/scitable/topicpage/host-response-to-the-dengue-virus-22402106

That article does not state that the virus tricks the immune system into believing that it is not an infection. It clearly states that the immune system recognizes it as an infection:

How the Immune System Defeats the Dengue Virus
How can the body recover from a dengue infection? Although the dengue virus has tricked the immune system to infect cells and spread throughout the body, the immune system has additional defenses to fight the virus. The infected cells produce and release small proteins called interferons that are part of a large group of proteins called cytokines. Interferons have the ability to interfere with viral replication, and they activate both the innate and adaptive immune system defenses. They help the immune system recognize dengue-infected cells and help protect uninfected cells from infection. As the immune system fights the dengue infection, the person experiences a fever.

[Tom Bishop]

It seems that the colloidal silver cartel is just as greedy as big pharma:

Yes, that's right. It costs them about five cents to make four ounces worth of colloidal silver, yet greedy colloidal silver vendors charge you anywhere from $29 to $59 for that same tiny amount!

That's a whopping 60,000% mark-up on every bottle sold. No other nutritional supplement on earth is so cheap to make, yet so expensive to buy.

The colloidal silver generators on the market which can make colloidal silver for pennies makes the old kind of colloidal silver which can make your skin blue. Most modern colloidal silver brands nave nano-sized particles and is worth the money if you intend on mega-dosing on the substance.

[Tom Bishop]

This idea that Vitamin C cures all sounds an awful lot like the phosphorus tonic that Dr. Birley used to push back in the day.

I see no reason to believe that phosphorous cannot cure a disease.

As I recall, Dr. Birley's claimed that phosphorous could cure pretty much every disease.  In fact, countless snake oil salesmen pushed patent medicines that were hailed as cures for whatever ails you.  Why should anyone trust your claims of vitamin c's almost magical curative abilities when there have been countless testimonials for these earlier cure-alls?

As I said, there are a lot of things that can kill microscopic organisms like bacteria, fungus, and viruses. Magnets can. Radiation can. Colloidal Silver can. Iodine can. Lemon juice can - Lemon juice fasting is a thing. It's not really that hard to find something that can kill a disease. There are lots of things in nature that kill microscopic organisms. Some of those things in nature also fall under a natural human food source, which makes them safe for the body and dangerous for the disease.

Unfortunately nature cannot be patented. What is hard is to make a totally synthetic substance that can kill a disease, yet is safe for the host. Most synthetic substances are poisonous to both the host and disease. This is why many drugs have a list of possible side effects as long as your arm. It's poisoning both your body you and your disease. In order to make a profit, the medical industry must promote these types of substances. The profession seeks keep people stupid and uneducated about such things. The public is brainwashed into thinking that the doctor is the harbinger of all medical knowledge, when that is the furthest from the truth.

Doctors only provide solutions which involve filling you up with dangerous drugs and putting you through costly surgeries. They do not care to cleanse, detoxify, provide safe natural remedies, and educate patients on a healthy diet and lifestyle to avoid disease. That is not the business they're running.

[Ghost of V]

Damn. Where do you find such quack sites? I'm impressed.

Oh, and I fixed thesilveredge.com's banner...

[garygreen]

Those stories of people curing themselves of chronic illnesses and stage 4 cancers by sitting in radioactive mines is absolutely true. Many of the stories of people curing themselves by drinking "holy water" are also true. There is a spring in France and a fountain in Florida where thousands of people around the world flock to in hopes of curing themselves. People with bodies riddled with cancers can have their malignancy halted over a weekend. Followup tests on these water cures almost always show that the water is irradiated. These radioactive springs and wells were heavily promoted in early 1900's America and were very popular. Some of these people took in too much radiation and die of radiation poisoning, which caused the government to ban the therapy.

Things like Vitamin C, Colloidal Silver, Iodine are less harmful than radiation, and have communities around those substances to promote their effectiveness. It is my belief, however, that Vitamin C is the substance most natural to the body and therefore the least damaging. The body already uses Vitamin C to combat disease, and can better move it in concentration to the places it needs to be. The body can better handle the aftermath of an anti-oxidant coming through and wiping out diseases because it was built to handle that.

How do you know those stories to be absolutely true?  Because you read them on the internet?  Those stories could easily be fabrications.  Which sounds simpler to you: that springs with magical healing properties are being completely overlooked by virtually everyone on the planet because doctors are somehow hiding them (although not very well, apparently); or, that these stories were fabricated by an industry with the means, opportunity, and billion-dollar motive to do so?

The vitamin industry is owned and operated by proven frauds and liars: http://www.justice.gov/atr/public/press_releases/1999/2450.htm

A Swiss pharmaceutical giant, F. Hoffmann-La Roche Ltd today agreed to plead guilty and pay a record $500 million criminal fine for leading a worldwide conspiracy to raise and fix prices and allocate market shares for certain vitamins sold in the United States and elsewhere, the Department of Justice announced. A German firm, BASF Aktiengesellschaft, also will plead guilty and pay a $225 million fine for its role in the same antitrust conspiracy, the Department said.
[...]
According to the charges, Hoffmann-La Roche and BASF agreed with the world's other major vitamin manufacturers to suppress and eliminate competition in the U.S. and elsewhere. The criminal cases charge that Hoffmann-La Roche, BASF, and Sommer, with unnamed co-conspirators:

Agreed to fix and raise prices on Vitamins A, B2, B5, C, E, Beta Carotene and vitamin premixes;
Agreed to allocate the volume of sales and market shares of such vitamins;
Agreed to divide contracts to supply vitamin premixes to customers in the U.S. by rigging the bids for those contracts; and,
Participated in meetings and conversations to monitor and enforce adherence to the agreed-upon prices and market shares.

Oh look, more vita-frauds admitting to price-fixing.  These people are proven liars and cannot be trusted: http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424127887324392804578360762865474642

On Thursday, after less than a day of deliberations, it found Hebei Welcome Pharmaceutical Co. and affiliated company North China Pharmaceutical Group Corp. liable for fixing prices on vitamin C for several years[...]The vitamin C makers generally didn't dispute that they acted together to set prices.

Wake up, vitamin shrill.  The vitamin C you're buying was industrially produced by Big Pharma.  You're buying it from proven frauds and liars: http://seattletimes.com/html/nationworld/2003732744_vitamins03.html

If you pop a vitamin C tablet in your mouth, it's a good bet it came from China. Indeed, many of the world's vitamins are now made in China.

In less than a decade, China has captured 90 percent of the U.S. market for vitamin C, driving almost everyone else out of business.

Chinese pharmaceutical companies also have taken over much of the world market in the production of antibiotics, analgesics, enzymes and primary amino acids. According to an industry group, China makes 70 percent of the world's penicillin, 50 percent of its aspirin and 35 percent of its acetaminophen (often sold under the brand name Tylenol), as well as the bulk of vitamins A, B12, C and E.

Oh, you get your vitamin C from Europe?  Don't worry, DSM isn't a member of Big Pharma, and they have absolutely no connections to any of the liars and frauds in China: http://www.dsm.com/corporate/media/informationcenter-news/2014/07/27-14-dsm-to-acquire-aland-china.html

Royal DSM, the global Life Sciences and Materials Sciences company, announces today it has reached agreement to acquire Aland (HK) Holding Limited (“Aland”), a Hong Kong-based company producing vitamin C in mainland China[...]Acquiring Aland, one of the leading Vitamin C manufacturers in China, allows DSM to further strengthen its position in vitamin C. Aland increases DSM’s global footprint in vitamins for Human Nutrition & Health, Animal Nutrition & Health and Personal Care.

Big Pharma has two goals in the alternative medicine market: capture lost market share, and sell GMO corn (used for industrial vitamin C production).  They stand to gain the most by using vitamins to make you sick and get you back into traditional medicine.  That's why all of these vitamins are produced and sold by Big Pharma.  These are inescapable facts.

Means, opportunity, and multi-billion dollar motivation to deceive?  Check.
Proven track record of deception, lies, and fraud?  Check.
Proven material connections between all of these fraudulent actors? Check, check, and check.

[Ghost of V]

Please wait while Tom loads a new quack theory to counter this ^

[Tom Bishop]

How do you know those stories to be absolutely true?  Because you read them on the internet?  Those stories could easily be fabrications.  Which sounds simpler to you: that springs with magical healing properties are being completely overlooked by virtually everyone on the planet because doctors are somehow hiding them (although not very well, apparently); or, that these stories were fabricated by an industry with the means, opportunity, and billion-dollar motive to do so?

Radiation isn't a magical healing property. Radiation is toxic to microscopic organisms. It is used in Chemotherapy to treat cancer. The area around Chernobyl is interesting in that the forests are not decaying properly due to radiation in the area. Microscopic organisms can't live there.

Radiation is also damaging to humans, to a lesser degree. The trick is to kill the disease before the host. Treating yourself with radiation isn't really something I advise, and not really what is meant by natural in these discussions. Radiation is natural in nature, but not natural to humans like Vitamin C, iodine, lemon juice, various herbs like Oregano Oil, Coconut Oil, Cats Claw, Tumeric, etc, are.

The arguments like "Not everything that's natural is good for you. Rattlesnake poison is natural!" fall flat because what is meant when you hear that natural substances are better for you is that substances natural to the human body are better for you. Not star plasma, clearly. The body recognizes things like vitamins and plants and knows how to process them.

But, the stories of people curing themselves with radioactive water are generally true nonetheless. Water form radioactive springs was popular 100 years ago, and touted to cure disease. There is water which flows from a spring in the Grotto of Massabielle in the Sanctuary of Our Lady of Lourdes, France, a historical site where thousands of people have traveled in search of a cure since the 1800's, and still do today. The internet is littered with stories about Lourdes. It's also a topic of discussion on forums like curezone.com and others, where people claim to have seen benefit. It's a historical miracle spot maintained by the Vatican, which maintains a hospital near the spring to accommodate visitors in search of a cure.

When radiation was first discovered, it was quickly realized that the holy water from these springs was irradiated.

http://www.radiation-hormesis.com/

The major scientists working on radiation during the 1800s and early 1900s had already shown that low level radioactivity was beneficial for living things.  Plants and animals grew bigger, reproduced better, had fewer cancers and infectious diseases and had a longer lifespan

...

J. J. Thompson, discoverer of the electron, found radioactivity in well water in 1903.   Within a year scientists throughout the world discovered that all famous healing hot springs such as Lourdes in France or Bath in the UK were radioactive.

[Tom Bishop]

The vitamin industry is owned and operated by proven frauds and liars: http://www.justice.gov/atr/public/press_releases/1999/2450.htm

A Swiss pharmaceutical giant, F. Hoffmann-La Roche Ltd today agreed to plead guilty and pay a record $500 million criminal fine for leading a worldwide conspiracy to raise and fix prices and allocate market shares for certain vitamins sold in the United States and elsewhere, the Department of Justice announced. A German firm, BASF Aktiengesellschaft, also will plead guilty and pay a $225 million fine for its role in the same antitrust conspiracy, the Department said.
[...]
According to the charges, Hoffmann-La Roche and BASF agreed with the world's other major vitamin manufacturers to suppress and eliminate competition in the U.S. and elsewhere. The criminal cases charge that Hoffmann-La Roche, BASF, and Sommer, with unnamed co-conspirators:

Agreed to fix and raise prices on Vitamins A, B2, B5, C, E, Beta Carotene and vitamin premixes;
Agreed to allocate the volume of sales and market shares of such vitamins;
Agreed to divide contracts to supply vitamin premixes to customers in the U.S. by rigging the bids for those contracts; and,
Participated in meetings and conversations to monitor and enforce adherence to the agreed-upon prices and market shares.

Oh look, more vita-frauds admitting to price-fixing.  These people are proven liars and cannot be trusted: http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424127887324392804578360762865474642

On Thursday, after less than a day of deliberations, it found Hebei Welcome Pharmaceutical Co. and affiliated company North China Pharmaceutical Group Corp. liable for fixing prices on vitamin C for several years[...]The vitamin C makers generally didn't dispute that they acted together to set prices.

Wake up, vitamin shrill.  The vitamin C you're buying was industrially produced by Big Pharma.  You're buying it from proven frauds and liars: http://seattletimes.com/html/nationworld/2003732744_vitamins03.html

If you pop a vitamin C tablet in your mouth, it's a good bet it came from China. Indeed, many of the world's vitamins are now made in China.

In less than a decade, China has captured 90 percent of the U.S. market for vitamin C, driving almost everyone else out of business.

Chinese pharmaceutical companies also have taken over much of the world market in the production of antibiotics, analgesics, enzymes and primary amino acids. According to an industry group, China makes 70 percent of the world's penicillin, 50 percent of its aspirin and 35 percent of its acetaminophen (often sold under the brand name Tylenol), as well as the bulk of vitamins A, B12, C and E.

Oh, you get your vitamin C from Europe?  Don't worry, DSM isn't a member of Big Pharma, and they have absolutely no connections to any of the liars and frauds in China: http://www.dsm.com/corporate/media/informationcenter-news/2014/07/27-14-dsm-to-acquire-aland-china.html

Royal DSM, the global Life Sciences and Materials Sciences company, announces today it has reached agreement to acquire Aland (HK) Holding Limited (“Aland”), a Hong Kong-based company producing vitamin C in mainland China[...]Acquiring Aland, one of the leading Vitamin C manufacturers in China, allows DSM to further strengthen its position in vitamin C. Aland increases DSM’s global footprint in vitamins for Human Nutrition & Health, Animal Nutrition & Health and Personal Care.

Big Pharma has two goals in the alternative medicine market: capture lost market share, and sell GMO corn (used for industrial vitamin C production).  They stand to gain the most by using vitamins to make you sick and get you back into traditional medicine.  That's why all of these vitamins are produced and sold by Big Pharma.  These are inescapable facts.

Means, opportunity, and multi-billion dollar motivation to deceive?  Check.
Proven track record of deception, lies, and fraud?  Check.
Proven material connections between all of these fraudulent actors? Check, check, and check.

Chinese pharmaceutical companies are not the authority on Vitamin C. The authorities on Vitamin C are the people who are writing the books and conducting studies. Vitamin C was first popularized by a Chemist named Linus Pauling, a Nobel Prize winner, who published books and studies on the benefits of Vitamin C, bringing the benefits into the public eye, campaigning for over 30 years for the substance to be recognized as a medical treatment.

[Thork]

Tom, its 2014. People don't die of scurvy any more. You are very easily able to get all the vitamin C you need from your food assuming you just eat a few veggies now and again. A person needs about 40mg a day (Source). An orange has about 45mg of vitamin C, so its pretty easy to get what you need.

Your kidneys begin to eliminate vitamin C that was absorbed, but not yet metabolized, as you consume more than 80 milligrams daily. Anything above 400mg a day is just peed straight out.

Taking above 1000mg a day increases your chances of getting kidney stones dramatically. It can also cause cramps and diarrhoea. Too much of anything will kill you, vitamin C included.

So instead of eating your way through a packet of pills, just eat normal healthy food to stay healthy and give yourself the best chance of fighting any disease you may have. Its pretty obvious.

Now the nutbars at the vitamin C foundation recommend you take 4000 to 12000mg in one dose to cure ebola. It will cure ebola. The virus will die once your body turns cold. Being as they sell vitamin C for $50 for 50000mg, I can see why they might suggest you take that much, but I don't think it has much to do with your health.
https://inteligentvitaminc.com//cart/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=6&products_id=29

Frankly this is like telling people they need more leeches.

[Tom Bishop]

The RDA for Vitamin C is what a normal, healthy person needs for continued everyday survival. Eating an orange is fine, if you're healthy.

But when the body is sick and under a lot of stress, the RDA doesn't cut it. The amount of Vitamin C required rises dramatically.

Read this study by Dr. Cathcart:

http://www.doctoryourself.com/cathcart_thirdface.html

The Third Face of Vitamin C
Robert F. Cathcart, M.D.
Journal of Orthomolecular Medicine, 7:4;197-200, 1993.

ABSTRACT
Bowel tolerance to orally ingested ascorbic acid increases with the toxicity of diseases. Bowel tolerance with a disease such as mononucleosis may reach 200 or more grams per 24 hours without it producing diarrhea. A marked clinical amelioration or cure is achieved in many disease processes when threshold doses near bowel tolerance are given. In a sense, it is the reducing equivalents carried by free radical scavengers that quench free radicals, not the free radical scavengers themselves. Ascorbic acid can be dramatically useful in quenching free radicals because it is usually tolerated in amounts necessary to provide the reducing equivalents necessary to quench almost all the free radicals generated by severe disease processes. Vitamin C functions are incidental at these dose levels; the benefit is from the reducing equivalents carried. To the extent that free radicals are either essential to the perpetuation of a disease or just part of the cause of symptoms, the disease will be cured or just ameliorated. These effects are even more dramatic from intravenous sodium ascorbate.

...

Secondly, the claim that absorbic acid causes kidney stones is a scare. It really only happens under rare and special circumstances.

http://www.doctoryourself.com/klennerpaper.html

How concerned should we be about oxalic acid and kidney stones? A technical explanation.

One of the "scare" weapons used by the critics on high daily doses of ascorbic acid is the oxalic acid-kidney stone hypothesis. Meakins[36] states that the chief factors in the formation of renal calculi are perversions of metabolic processes, infection and stasis in the urinary tract. There are two schools of thought on stone formation: 1) That there is a central nucleus of colloids on which the crystalloids are precipitated; 2) That the crystalloids are deposited from the urine in which they are present in concentrated solution, in which salt and hydrogen ion concentrations are important factors. In all cases stasis and a concentrated urine appear to be the chief physiological factors. The only way that oxalic acid can be produced from ascorbic acid is through splitting of the lactone ring. This happens above pH5. The reaction of urine when 10 grams of vitamin C is taken daily is usually pH6. Oxalic acid precipitates out of solution only from a neutral or alkaline solution-pH7 to pH10. Kelli and Zilva[37] reported that "Nutrition experiments showed that dehydroascorbic acid is protected in vivo from rapid transformation to the antiscorbutically impotent diketogulonic acid from which oxalic acid is derived." Values reported in the literature for normal 24 hour urinary oxalate excretions for humans range from 14 mg to 56 mg. Lamden et al.[38] found in a group of volunteers that the ingestion of 9 grams ascorbic acid daily resulted in oxalate spills as high as 68 mg for 24 hours and in the controls without extra vitamin C the high was 64 mg for a 24 hour period.

These critics have overlooked the individual with diabetes mellitus. The amount of oxalic acid found in the diabetic patient approximates that found in the urine of a normal person taking 10 grams vitamin C each day. With the diabetic we find a paradox. Give this individual 10 grams ascorbic acid daily, by mouth, and the urinary oxalate excretion remains relatively unchanged. Diabetics are known for their diuresis. The individual who takes 10 or more grams of vitamin C each day will find that this organic compound is an excellent diuretic. No urinary stasis; no urine concentration.

The ascorbic acid kidney stone story is a myth. Methylene blue will dissolve calcium oxalate stones giving 65 mg orally 2 to 3 times a day. (Dr. M. J. Vernon Smith: Med. World News, Dec. 4, 1970)

[Tom Bishop]

Also, the link you posted from the Vitamin C Foundation is actually a manufacturer called the  "Inteligent Vitamin C Store". Supplement companies are not the authority on Vitamin C. The closest actual foundation is the Linus Pauling Institute, a non-profit research institution. They don't sell products.

Aside from the duplicity of using the name of Vitamin C Foundation and portraying itself as some official organization, the amount of Liposomal Vitamin C on that website is well worth $50. Liposomal Vitamin C is not regular absorbic acid. It's a new form of Vitamin C, bonded to Lecithin, which is much better absorbed into the bloodstream, and more effective. It's an alternative to Intravenous Vitamin C therapy, which can get costly.

[Thork]

Tom, you had a bunch of parasites or something trying to kill you a short while ago. Why were you so ill for so long when all you needed was a bit of Vitamin C?