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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Natural Medicine is better than Unnatural Medicine
« Reply #20 on: September 30, 2014, 05:32:12 PM »
What fruit should one eat to cure HIV?

The treatment for HIV is Vitamin C.

See:

The Truth about HIV and Vitamin C
https://www.patrickholford.com/advice/the-truth-about-hiv-and-vitamin-c

A Cure For AIDS?
http://www.cqs.com/aidscure.htm

High Levels of Vitamin C Prove Toxic to HIV
http://www3.scienceblog.com/community/older/1997/A/199700701.html

What Doctors Don't Tell You: Vitamin C Cures AIDS
http://wwddtydty.com/2013/10/wddty-lies-vitamin-c-aids-cure/

From the conclusion paragraph of your own source, Tom
Quote from: http://wwddtydty.com/2013/10/wddty-lies-vitamin-c-aids-cure/
The claim that Vitamin C cures AIDS was at the centre of vitamin überquack Patrick Holford‘s attempts to silence Ben Goldacre. It is, needless to say, complete bollocks.

Read the What Doctors Don't Tell you link on that page. People were treated with Vitamin C with good results. The guy saying it's complete bollocks bases his opinion on an advertisement that appeared on that page in the banner area that picked up the keyword for Vitamin C and advertised Liposomal Vitamin C to him.

Thork

Re: Natural Medicine is better than Unnatural Medicine
« Reply #21 on: September 30, 2014, 05:34:48 PM »
What fruit should one eat to cure HIV?

The treatment for HIV is Vitamin C.

See:

The Truth about HIV and Vitamin C
https://www.patrickholford.com/advice/the-truth-about-hiv-and-vitamin-c

A Cure For AIDS?
http://www.cqs.com/aidscure.htm

High Levels of Vitamin C Prove Toxic to HIV
http://www3.scienceblog.com/community/older/1997/A/199700701.html

What Doctors Don't Tell You: Vitamin C Cures AIDS
http://wwddtydty.com/2013/10/wddty-lies-vitamin-c-aids-cure/

From the conclusion paragraph of your own source, Tom
Quote from: http://wwddtydty.com/2013/10/wddty-lies-vitamin-c-aids-cure/
The claim that Vitamin C cures AIDS was at the centre of vitamin überquack Patrick Holford‘s attempts to silence Ben Goldacre. It is, needless to say, complete bollocks.

Read the What Doctors Don't Tell you link on that page. People were treated with Vitamin C with good results. The guy saying it's complete bollocks bases his opinion on an advertisement that appeared on that page in the banner area that picked up the keyword for Vitamin C and advertised Liposomal Vitamin C to him.
No, the article finishes ...

Quote from: http://wwddtydty.com/2013/10/wddty-lies-vitamin-c-aids-cure/
The claim that Vitamin C cures AIDS was at the centre of vitamin überquack Patrick Holford‘s attempts to silence Ben Goldacre. It is, needless to say, complete bollocks.

Why don’t doctors tell you that Vitamin C cures AIDS?

Because it’s not true.

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Natural Medicine is better than Unnatural Medicine
« Reply #22 on: September 30, 2014, 05:38:52 PM »
At the same time, however, extremely high levels of the vitamin are more toxic to the HIV-infected cells than to healthy immune cells, the investigators report in the Feb. 28 issue of the Journal of Biological Chemistry.

How does more toxic to HIV cells than healthy immune cells make it a cure for HIV?  What dosage is required to completely cure someone of HIV. There is no indication. 
Maybe that is because:

The laboratory research provides the foundation to begin to understand the relationship among vitamin C, HIV infection, and cell metabolism, and may lead to new therapeutic targets to counter the AIDS virus, he added.

It looks like the connection you are claiming is not claimed by this clinic.  Instead it was an interesting preliminary result that deserves further research.  This is not a cure and to claim so is irresponsible.

It shows that Vitamin C to treat diseases is not bollocks. If it were bollocks it wouldn't have done anything.

Linus Pauling has treated AIDS and cancer patients in his clinic. His has published books about it. Other doctors are treating patients as well.

Another study: http://www4.dr-rath-foundation.org/pdf-files/hiv99percentreduced.pdf
« Last Edit: September 30, 2014, 05:44:13 PM by Tom Bishop »

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Natural Medicine is better than Unnatural Medicine
« Reply #23 on: September 30, 2014, 05:43:24 PM »
Quote from: http://wwddtydty.com/2013/10/wddty-lies-vitamin-c-aids-cure/
The claim that Vitamin C cures AIDS was at the centre of vitamin überquack Patrick Holford‘s attempts to silence Ben Goldacre. It is, needless to say, complete bollocks.

Why don’t doctors tell you that Vitamin C cures AIDS?

Because it’s not true.

The words "complete bollocks" are hyperlinked, and bring you to a page by that person describing that the Vitamin C claim is false because the WDDTY website had some banner advertisements which advertised Vitamin C.

The referenced What Doctors Don't Tell You link goes through the actual benefits of Vitamin C.
« Last Edit: September 30, 2014, 05:45:40 PM by Tom Bishop »

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Natural Medicine is better than Unnatural Medicine
« Reply #24 on: September 30, 2014, 05:55:18 PM »
Here is a doctor who has successfully treated HIV and AIDS patients with Vitamin C

http://www.doctoryourself.com/aids_cathcart.html

    "My previous experience with the utilization of ascorbic acid in the treatment of viral diseases led me to hypothesize that ascorbate would be of value in the treatment of AIDS (acquired immune deficiency syndrome). Preliminary clinical evidence is that massive doses of ascorbate (50-200 grams per 24 hours) can suppress the symptoms of the disease and can markedly reduce the tendency for secondary infections. In combination with usual treatments for the secondary infections, large doses of ascorbate will often produce a clinical remission which shows every evidence of being prolonged if treatment is continued. This clinical remission is achieved despite continuing laboratory evidence of helper T-cell suppression. There may be a complete or partial destruction of the helper T-cells during an initial infection that does not necessitate a continuing toxicity from some source to maintain a permanent or prolonged helper T-cell suppression. However, it is possible ascorbate may prevent that destruction if used adequately during that prodrome period. Emphasis is put upon the recognition and treatment of the frequent intestinal parasites. Food and chemical sensitivities occur frequently in the AID syndrome and may aggravate symptoms considered to be part of the AID syndrome. A topical C-paste has been found very effective in the treatment of herpes simplex and, to a lesser extent, in the treatment of some Kaposi's lesions. Increasingly, clinical research on other methods of treating AIDS is being "contaminated" by patients taking ascorbate"

There you have it. People have been cured of AIDS with Vitamin C, and a tell-all paper on how to do it.
« Last Edit: September 30, 2014, 05:57:44 PM by Tom Bishop »

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Offline Rama Set

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Re: Natural Medicine is better than Unnatural Medicine
« Reply #25 on: September 30, 2014, 06:05:12 PM »
Quote from: http://wwddtydty.com/2013/10/wddty-lies-vitamin-c-aids-cure/
The claim that Vitamin C cures AIDS was at the centre of vitamin überquack Patrick Holford‘s attempts to silence Ben Goldacre. It is, needless to say, complete bollocks.

Why don’t doctors tell you that Vitamin C cures AIDS?

Because it’s not true.

The words "complete bollocks" are hyperlinked, and bring you to a page by that person describing that the Vitamin C claim is false because the WDDTY website had some banner advertisements which advertised Vitamin C.

The referenced What Doctors Don't Tell You link goes through the actual benefits of Vitamin C.

It looks like you did not read the hyperlink you mentioned.  When I follow it, it talks about the magazine version released to stores:

Th*rk is the worst person on this website.

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Re: Natural Medicine is better than Unnatural Medicine
« Reply #26 on: September 30, 2014, 06:08:49 PM »
Here is a doctor who has successfully treated HIV and AIDS patients with Vitamin C

http://www.doctoryourself.com/aids_cathcart.html

    "My previous experience with the utilization of ascorbic acid in the treatment of viral diseases led me to hypothesize that ascorbate would be of value in the treatment of AIDS (acquired immune deficiency syndrome). Preliminary clinical evidence is that massive doses of ascorbate (50-200 grams per 24 hours) can suppress the symptoms of the disease and can markedly reduce the tendency for secondary infections. In combination with usual treatments for the secondary infections, large doses of ascorbate will often produce a clinical remission which shows every evidence of being prolonged if treatment is continued. This clinical remission is achieved despite continuing laboratory evidence of helper T-cell suppression. There may be a complete or partial destruction of the helper T-cells during an initial infection that does not necessitate a continuing toxicity from some source to maintain a permanent or prolonged helper T-cell suppression. However, it is possible ascorbate may prevent that destruction if used adequately during that prodrome period. Emphasis is put upon the recognition and treatment of the frequent intestinal parasites. Food and chemical sensitivities occur frequently in the AID syndrome and may aggravate symptoms considered to be part of the AID syndrome. A topical C-paste has been found very effective in the treatment of herpes simplex and, to a lesser extent, in the treatment of some Kaposi's lesions. Increasingly, clinical research on other methods of treating AIDS is being "contaminated" by patients taking ascorbate"

There you have it. People have been cured of AIDS with Vitamin C, and a tell-all paper on how to do it.

One anecdote about one person being cured?  You know how ridiculous that is?
Th*rk is the worst person on this website.

Re: Natural Medicine is better than Unnatural Medicine
« Reply #27 on: September 30, 2014, 06:13:13 PM »
Funny that you claim people have been cured of HIV or AIDS when there has apparently only been one case of a person being cured and it was by accident.

http://www.iflscience.com/health-and-medicine/scientists-closer-understanding-how-berlin-patient-was-cured-hiv

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Natural Medicine is better than Unnatural Medicine
« Reply #28 on: September 30, 2014, 06:16:20 PM »
One anecdote about one person being cured?  You know how ridiculous that is?

Where does it say he only cured one patient? In his paper he says that he worked with 12 of his own patients, and cites 90 others who have used Vitamin C.

Funny that you claim people have been cured of HIV or AIDS when there has apparently only been one case of a person being cured and it was by accident.

http://www.iflscience.com/health-and-medicine/scientists-closer-understanding-how-berlin-patient-was-cured-hiv

The allopathic pharmaceutical industry ignores and suppresses naturopathic research. This is no surprise.
« Last Edit: September 30, 2014, 06:23:58 PM by Tom Bishop »

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Re: Natural Medicine is better than Unnatural Medicine
« Reply #29 on: September 30, 2014, 06:18:57 PM »
One anecdote about one person being cured?  You know how ridiculous that is?

Where does it say he only cured one patient?

You are right.  This one says "preliminary evidence" which is saying "not enough evidence to draw a sound conclusion from".
Th*rk is the worst person on this website.

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Natural Medicine is better than Unnatural Medicine
« Reply #30 on: September 30, 2014, 06:25:22 PM »
You are right.  This one says "preliminary evidence" which is saying "not enough evidence to draw a sound conclusion from".

The deck is stacked against people who try promoting natural alternatives to medicine. Legally, that's what he has to say. If he went around claiming that he could cure your AIDS, the FDA would be all over him.

To be FDA approved someone has to sponsor the treatment through FDA-approved clinical trials, which can take tens of millions of dollars to achieve. The for-profit medical industry is never going to do this for Vitamin C because it will put them out of business. They have very large billion dollar businesses to protect. Vitamin C cannot be patented. Anyone can make it. There is no propriety and no profit potential. These businesses would rather that people die than know about Vitamin C.
« Last Edit: September 30, 2014, 06:34:47 PM by Tom Bishop »

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Re: Natural Medicine is better than Unnatural Medicine
« Reply #31 on: September 30, 2014, 06:44:21 PM »
You are right.  This one says "preliminary evidence" which is saying "not enough evidence to draw a sound conclusion from".

The deck is stacked against people who try promoting natural alternatives to medicine. Legally, that's what he has to say.

Citation required.

Quote
If he went around claiming that he could cure your AIDS, the FDA would be all over him.

To be FDA approved someone has to sponsor the treatment through FDA-approved clinical trials, which can take tens of millions of dollars to achieve. The for-profit medical industry is never going to do this for Vitamin C because it will put them out of business. They have very large billion dollar businesses to protect. Vitamin C cannot be patented. Anyone can make it. There is no propriety and no profit potential. These businesses would rather that people die than know about Vitamin C.

Ok, ignoring that you are putting words in that doctor's mouth, the fact remains that there is not apparently a large statistical group to say definitively that Vitamin C does what you say it does.  Couple that with there being evidence dissenting against your view, it seems like the responsible and logical thing to do is remain agnostic, doesn't it?
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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Natural Medicine is better than Unnatural Medicine
« Reply #32 on: September 30, 2014, 07:08:43 PM »
Ok, ignoring that you are putting words in that doctor's mouth, the fact remains that there is not apparently a large statistical group to say definitively that Vitamin C does what you say it does.  Couple that with there being evidence dissenting against your view, it seems like the responsible and logical thing to do is remain agnostic, doesn't it?

There are no large statistical studies because no pharmaceutical company is picking it up for the large clinical trials. Dr. Cathcart doesn't have the means to organize thousands of patients for prolonged clinical trials. He knows that he can treat AIDS and other diseases, and that's good enough for him.

There are plenty of testimonials for the effectiveness of Vitamin C:

Quote
http://curezone.com/forums/fm.asp?i=1313858#
 
"Vitamin C infusions saved my life. My chemo treatment was killing me, putting me into the hospital and straining my heart. I was at deaths door, and one treatment, only one treatment before my next chemo, (the one I thought was going to be my last because I thought was sure I would be dead) and I was a whole new person. I am very angry that the doctors did not tell me about this therapy and I almost didn't make it because of that."

 
http://www.breastcancertreatment.co.nz/intravenous-vitamin-c.htm

Pam Stevens (New Zealand). "After just five months of twice weekly treatments together with a broad range of pharmaceutical grade nutritional supplements the patches of cancer in my bones had completely disappeared. I have survived very aggressive, invasive breast cancer without resorting to chemotherapy, radiotherapy or drugs. Instead my chosen treatment path has been surgery, intravenous vitamin C and pharmaceutical grade nutritional supplements. The dose of vitamin C I have been on is 82.5 grams - initially twice a week but now once every fortnight. This has been administered since September 2005 and tolerated without any side effects other than thirst while having the treatment."

http://www.maryclinic.com/about.html

"Charles C. Mary, Jr., A physician in New Orleans, Louisiana (was practicing IVC since the times of Pauling lectures) - Not only does he recommend it for his patients, he has personal experience with the healing properties of ascorbic acid. In 1990 he developed colon cancer. Not wanting to go the traditional route of "cut, poison and burn", he decided to treat himself with mega-doses of ascorbic acid. Every day, for three months, he took 100,000 milligrams (100 grams) intravenously. Upon the persistence of his family and colleagues he agreed to have a resection of his colon after the vitamin therapy. Much to the astonishment of the surgical team and pathologists, his cancer was gone- visibly and microscopically."
 
http://www.healingcancernaturally.com/vitamin-c-cancer-therapy-cure.html
 
"George received 30 grams (30,000 milligrams) of vitamin C twice a week for six weeks. X-rays six weeks later showed a marked decrease in the size of the tumors. George continued the injections. Six months later there was no evidence of cancer. Mr. Williams lived a relatively healthy life for another 14 years and died a few years ago of congestive heart failure at the age of 84."
 
http://www.topix.com/forum/health/cancer/T87R8EG2BCFCK2S4A/p2#lastPost
 
"Tricia Thompson, (Canada). He takes Morphine to numb the pain he experiences. After one round of chemo, and a bout in the hospital for illeus (bowel stopped working), he is now to sick to continue chemo at this time. He started on Int Vit C about 2 weeks ago, 50g 3x a week. He hasn't felt any improvement in his symptoms yet and said he actually feel a bit worse (Feb 21, 2007). My dad went for his blood work and although his white blood cell count was still up and his red was still low, his cancer marker count ca9-19 went fro 950 to 320. We understand this is still high, but it's definately a step in the right direction."
 
http://www.signonsandiego.com/uniontrib/20060810/news_1c10patients.html
 
"Bill Nath (one of 3 in Levine's study)- Nath consulted experts at four major cancer centers from Wichita to New York. All recommended chemo, radiation, and removal of all or part of the bladder. Total removal would include the prostate, adding risks of incontinence and impotence.
One specialist "said if I didn't remove the whole bladder, I would die," said Nath. "It was pretty traumatic."

Nath ultimately made a choice that seemed suicidal to his wife, friends, and doctors: to keep part of his bladder and forgo chemo and radiation. Instead, he got 30 grams of C twice a week for three months, then every month or two for four years at the Center for the Improvement of Human Functioning in Wichita. It was founded by Hugh Riordan, a physician and friend of Pauling's, now deceased. Today, a decade after his diagnosis, Nath is cancer-free. Levine, in collaboration with National Cancer Institute pathologists, reexamined, then published Nath's case and two others from Riordan's center."

also, from http://www.maryclinic.com/about.html
 
"Countless cases of people told to go home and die by their doctors were treated and outlived their death sentences. Patients with all types of cancer - breast, lung, colon, prostate, pancreatic, kidney, leukemia, even metastatic cancer- can be helped with ascorbic acid. But it is not just the Vitamin C. At the clinic, we believe in a more wholistic philosophy. Medicine cannot be the only answer. We are complex organisms that require many different things to operate. What we eat, what we breathe, what we drink, how we feel, how we interact with each other, our spirituality- these things will not be separate. These are the core issues of health and wellness. There is no magic bullet. For those of us whose health is less than optimal, we need to remember that it took a while, occasionally many years, to reach the state of disrepair in which we reside. It may take some time to retrain the body- cell by cell- back into proper form and function."

Ghost of V

Re: Natural Medicine is better than Unnatural Medicine
« Reply #33 on: September 30, 2014, 07:10:51 PM »
Testimonial evidence exists for alien abductions, bigfoot, flying bunny monster, and anything else that you can make up.

Testimonials are not evidence of anything.

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Natural Medicine is better than Unnatural Medicine
« Reply #34 on: September 30, 2014, 07:14:28 PM »
Here is a short three minute video which proves to me that Vitamin C is beneficial.

http://www.nbcphiladelphia.com/video/#!/news/health/Could-Vitamin-C-Help-Treat-Pancreatic-Cancer-/137546083

According to this video the majority of pancreatic cancer patients at this clinic showed regression after receiving Vitamin C IV therapy. A majority! As the doctor states in the video, pancreatic cancer is the most deadly type of cancer with a cruel 1% survival rate using traditional medicine.

It would be hard to say that these patients in this clinic regressed because of some reason other than Vitamin C.
« Last Edit: September 30, 2014, 07:17:06 PM by Tom Bishop »

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Natural Medicine is better than Unnatural Medicine
« Reply #35 on: September 30, 2014, 07:16:22 PM »
Testimonial evidence exists for alien abductions, bigfoot, flying bunny monster, and anything else that you can make up.

Testimonials are not evidence of anything.

This is incorrect. If multiple sources are claiming that a man was gunned down in a nearby neighborhood, it is evidence that a shooting took place and it gets reported in the newspaper.

Ghost of V

Re: Natural Medicine is better than Unnatural Medicine
« Reply #36 on: September 30, 2014, 07:20:40 PM »
Testimonial evidence exists for alien abductions, bigfoot, flying bunny monster, and anything else that you can make up.

Testimonials are not evidence of anything.

This is incorrect. If multiple sources are claiming that a man was gunned down in a nearby neighborhood, it is evidence that a shooting took place and it gets reported in the newspaper.

Perhaps, but that isn't the case here. These are all separate people commenting on separate experiences. They cannot corroborate someone else's personal experience.

Eyewitness misidentification is the single greatest cause of wrongful convictions nationwide (in US, at least). Does that not tell you anything?

Re: Natural Medicine is better than Unnatural Medicine
« Reply #37 on: September 30, 2014, 07:25:09 PM »
There are no large statistical studies because no pharmaceutical company is picking it up for the large clinical trials.

That's a silly statement, why would a large pharmaceutical company run an expensive clinical trial for something that it doesn't produce/hold a patent on?
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Re: Natural Medicine is better than Unnatural Medicine
« Reply #38 on: September 30, 2014, 07:56:27 PM »
This idea that Vitamin C cures all sounds an awful lot like the phosphorus tonic that Dr. Birley used to push back in the day.
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Ghost of V

Re: Natural Medicine is better than Unnatural Medicine
« Reply #39 on: September 30, 2014, 07:57:55 PM »
This idea that Vitamin C cures all sounds an awful lot like the phosphorus tonic that Dr. Birley used to push back in the day.

Or colloidal silver. Which literally turns users blue.