Offline Action80

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Re: The Texas GOP
« Reply #40 on: June 26, 2022, 03:38:58 PM »
There is nothing wrong with discrimination.
Care to elaborate?
On what?

My decision to engage in relationships with whom I please?
It's so hard to have faith in humanity when they do shit like this.

"I hate the police so I'm gonna burn a Walgreen's!"

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: The Texas GOP
« Reply #41 on: June 26, 2022, 03:48:28 PM »
Every stance, law, political position, or opinion, is discriminating against someone who may feel differently about it.

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Offline markjo

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Re: The Texas GOP
« Reply #42 on: June 26, 2022, 04:03:44 PM »
So no one with faith, conviction, and traditional values has ever assaulted anyone?
It is questionable if one can claim these characteristics if they are physically assaulting others.
I'm pretty sure that the KKK, Neo-Nazis and other white supremacist groups do.
Abandon hope all ye who press enter here.

Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.

Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge. -- Charles Darwin

If you can't demonstrate it, then you shouldn't believe it.

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Offline Action80

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Re: The Texas GOP
« Reply #43 on: June 26, 2022, 04:32:32 PM »
So no one with faith, conviction, and traditional values has ever assaulted anyone?
It is questionable if one can claim these characteristics if they are physically assaulting others.
I'm pretty sure that the KKK, Neo-Nazis and other white supremacist groups do.
And I am sure you question the legitimacy of the claims.
It's so hard to have faith in humanity when they do shit like this.

"I hate the police so I'm gonna burn a Walgreen's!"

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Offline stack

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Re: The Texas GOP
« Reply #44 on: June 26, 2022, 05:33:46 PM »
I never said it did include the word "assault". It was a question. Does the language allow someone to not be criminally liable if they assault a homosexual person based upon their faith, conviction, or belief in traditional values?
People who possess faith, conviction, and traditional values, are not the ones going around assaulting anyone.

So no one with faith, conviction, and traditional values has ever assaulted anyone?
It is questionable if one can claim these characteristics if they are physically assaulting others.

Agreed, but lots of people think they have faith, conviction, and traditional values when in the midst of committing a crime like assault. Like what about someone like the guy Qanon guy who broke into the Pizza place to save kids held against their will in the basement that didn't exist? He certainly had faith, conviction, and traditional values.

What about all the people that stormed the capitol, whacking police officers over the head, threatening to hang Pence, etc. Did they have faith, conviction, and traditional values?

You ought to know...I mean you are constantly on this forum questioning the validity of a person's faith, convictions, and traditional values via constant verbal assault and weak humor.

Hmmm, if memory serves, you just got off a 30 day ban for "Personal attacks in the upper".
Actually, I was banned for posting a characterization of Joe Biden, in a thread about Joe Biden.

Apparently, that is untrue. Your ban literally says, "Personal attacks in the upper, did not take the hint when warned. +30 days due to attempted ban circumvention +30 days due to another attempted ban circumvention!". Last I checked Biden wasn't here to be personally attacked. So it must have been personal attacks on others.

My point being, glass houses.


A little thing called "discrimination".
There is nothing wrong with discrimination.

More people ought to be more discriminating.

That's an interesting point of view. I guess we'll just leave it at you are pro-discrimination.
You act as if you do not engage in the process yourself.

Which is a sign of cognitive dissonance.

So you think it's ok to deny someone a service or product or job based upon their gender, color, or sexual orientation?

No one says you have to. But you didn't answer the question.
I usually ignore worthless questions.

Fair enough. All you have to do is plead the 5th.

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Offline markjo

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Re: The Texas GOP
« Reply #45 on: June 26, 2022, 05:57:21 PM »
So no one with faith, conviction, and traditional values has ever assaulted anyone?
It is questionable if one can claim these characteristics if they are physically assaulting others.
I'm pretty sure that the KKK, Neo-Nazis and other white supremacist groups do.
And I am sure you question the legitimacy of the claims.
And I'm willing to guess that you don't.
Abandon hope all ye who press enter here.

Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.

Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge. -- Charles Darwin

If you can't demonstrate it, then you shouldn't believe it.

#firePete

Re: The Texas GOP
« Reply #46 on: June 26, 2022, 06:36:00 PM »
Every stance, law, political position, or opinion, is discriminating against someone who may feel differently about it.
I’m not really sure that’s what discrimination means.
Tom: "Claiming incredulity is a pretty bad argument. Calling it "insane" or "ridiculous" is not a good argument at all."

TFES Wiki Occam's Razor page, by Tom: "What's the simplest explanation; that NASA has successfully designed and invented never before seen rocket technologies from scratch which can accelerate 100 tons of matter to an escape velocity of 7 miles per second"

Offline Action80

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Re: The Texas GOP
« Reply #47 on: June 26, 2022, 07:47:16 PM »
So you think it's ok to deny someone a service or product or job based upon their gender, color, or sexual orientation?
Why not?

You would cheer and wholeheartedly support the denial of a service, product, or job based on a person's worldview.

That's discrimination.

Free association is the way to go.
It's so hard to have faith in humanity when they do shit like this.

"I hate the police so I'm gonna burn a Walgreen's!"

Re: The Texas GOP
« Reply #48 on: June 26, 2022, 07:50:22 PM »
There is nothing wrong with discrimination.
Care to elaborate?
On what?
On the bit I quoted...
Discrimination can mean "recognition and understanding of the difference between one thing and another."
But the definition which most people understand is "the unjust or prejudicial treatment of different categories of people, especially on the grounds of race, age, sex, or disability."

How is there "nothing wrong" with that?
To expand on my reply to Tom. I'm a Remainer, I didn't want to Brexit. But the majority voted that way and while I think it was an idiotic decision I haven't been "discriminated against" because Brexit happen. That's democracy, not discrimination.
Tom: "Claiming incredulity is a pretty bad argument. Calling it "insane" or "ridiculous" is not a good argument at all."

TFES Wiki Occam's Razor page, by Tom: "What's the simplest explanation; that NASA has successfully designed and invented never before seen rocket technologies from scratch which can accelerate 100 tons of matter to an escape velocity of 7 miles per second"

Offline Action80

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Re: The Texas GOP
« Reply #49 on: June 26, 2022, 07:56:03 PM »
There is nothing wrong with discrimination.
Care to elaborate?
On what?
On the bit I quoted...
Discrimination can mean "recognition and understanding of the difference between one thing and another."
But the definition which most people understand is "the unjust or prejudicial treatment of different categories of people, especially on the grounds of race, age, sex, or disability."

How is there "nothing wrong" with that?
To expand on my reply to Tom. I'm a Remainer, I didn't want to Brexit. But the majority voted that way and while I think it was an idiotic decision I haven't been "discriminated against" because Brexit happen. That's democracy, not discrimination.
Free association.

You should be free to associate and do business with the reciprocated consent of others, whenever you want, wherever you want.

Pretty simple.
It's so hard to have faith in humanity when they do shit like this.

"I hate the police so I'm gonna burn a Walgreen's!"

Re: The Texas GOP
« Reply #50 on: June 26, 2022, 08:17:03 PM »
You should be free to associate and do business with the reciprocated consent of others, whenever you want, wherever you want.

Pretty simple.
OK. So if I'm racist and I decide I want to open a restaurant and only serve whites then I should be able to.
And if that means I go out of business because white people boycott in solidarity then that's my problem.
I mean, I can kinda see an argument there but a fairly likely outcome is my restaurant would attract racists. And my hot take on racism is that it is, by and large, a bad thing. So I'm not sure it's something one should encourage.
I do think there's an argument that someone shouldn't be compelled to do things against their principles. So the infamous case of the baker taken to court for refusing to make a cake supporting gay marriage. I'm on the baker's side there. They weren't refusing to serve the couple because they were gay, they were refusing to print a message which went against their principles.
Tom: "Claiming incredulity is a pretty bad argument. Calling it "insane" or "ridiculous" is not a good argument at all."

TFES Wiki Occam's Razor page, by Tom: "What's the simplest explanation; that NASA has successfully designed and invented never before seen rocket technologies from scratch which can accelerate 100 tons of matter to an escape velocity of 7 miles per second"

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Offline markjo

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Re: The Texas GOP
« Reply #51 on: June 27, 2022, 12:59:54 AM »
So you think it's ok to deny someone a service or product or job based upon their gender, color, or sexual orientation?
Why not?
Because it's bad for business to exclude a lot of potential customers for irrelevant reasons.
Abandon hope all ye who press enter here.

Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.

Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge. -- Charles Darwin

If you can't demonstrate it, then you shouldn't believe it.

#firePete

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Offline Rama Set

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Re: The Texas GOP
« Reply #52 on: June 27, 2022, 01:52:13 AM »
You should be free to associate and do business with the reciprocated consent of others, whenever you want, wherever you want.

Pretty simple.
OK. So if I'm racist and I decide I want to open a restaurant and only serve whites then I should be able to.
And if that means I go out of business because white people boycott in solidarity then that's my problem.
I mean, I can kinda see an argument there but a fairly likely outcome is my restaurant would attract racists. And my hot take on racism is that it is, by and large, a bad thing. So I'm not sure it's something one should encourage.
I do think there's an argument that someone shouldn't be compelled to do things against their principles. So the infamous case of the baker taken to court for refusing to make a cake supporting gay marriage. I'm on the baker's side there. They weren't refusing to serve the couple because they were gay, they were refusing to print a message which went against their principles.

The real irony is that the Venn diagram of people who want to promote “free association” and people who want to reign in “Big Tech Censorship” is nearly a circle.
Th*rk is the worst person on this website.

Re: The Texas GOP
« Reply #53 on: June 27, 2022, 07:25:47 AM »
So you think it's ok to deny someone a service or product or job based upon their gender, color, or sexual orientation?
Why not?
Because it's bad for business to exclude a lot of potential customers for irrelevant reasons.
But that's the business owner's problem. If they only want to serve a certain demographic - and therefore exclude certain others - then isn't that literally their business? That's the argument. If they go out of business as a result then more fool them. But, overall, I don't think allowing segregation is a positive thing.

EDIT: And I think there's a difference between a baker refusing to serve a couple because they're gay, and refusing to serve a couple because they're asking for a pro gay marriage to be printed on a cake, if the business owner doesn't believe that. Tell you what, if someone had ordered an anti-gay marriage cake and the baker had refused then they'd have been hailed as heroes.
« Last Edit: June 27, 2022, 08:04:29 AM by AllAroundTheWorld »
Tom: "Claiming incredulity is a pretty bad argument. Calling it "insane" or "ridiculous" is not a good argument at all."

TFES Wiki Occam's Razor page, by Tom: "What's the simplest explanation; that NASA has successfully designed and invented never before seen rocket technologies from scratch which can accelerate 100 tons of matter to an escape velocity of 7 miles per second"

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: The Texas GOP
« Reply #54 on: June 27, 2022, 08:04:13 AM »
To expand on my reply to Tom. I'm a Remainer, I didn't want to Brexit. But the majority voted that way and while I think it was an idiotic decision I haven't been "discriminated against" because Brexit happen. That's democracy, not discrimination.

You would be mistaken then. Democracy is clearly a form of discrimination against the minority. You were just conditioned to accept it.

Re: The Texas GOP
« Reply #55 on: June 27, 2022, 08:20:43 AM »
To expand on my reply to Tom. I'm a Remainer, I didn't want to Brexit. But the majority voted that way and while I think it was an idiotic decision I haven't been "discriminated against" because Brexit happen. That's democracy, not discrimination.

You would be mistaken then. Democracy is clearly a form of discrimination against the minority. You were just conditioned to accept it.
Literally quoted the definition above:

Discrimination can mean "recognition and understanding of the difference between one thing and another."
But the definition which most people understand is "the unjust or prejudicial treatment of different categories of people, especially on the grounds of race, age, sex, or disability."

I've not been discriminated against because we have left the EU. We had a vote, my side lost. I'm still waiting to see what the other side won, but regardless I haven't been discriminated against
Tom: "Claiming incredulity is a pretty bad argument. Calling it "insane" or "ridiculous" is not a good argument at all."

TFES Wiki Occam's Razor page, by Tom: "What's the simplest explanation; that NASA has successfully designed and invented never before seen rocket technologies from scratch which can accelerate 100 tons of matter to an escape velocity of 7 miles per second"

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: The Texas GOP
« Reply #56 on: June 27, 2022, 08:35:54 AM »
To expand on my reply to Tom. I'm a Remainer, I didn't want to Brexit. But the majority voted that way and while I think it was an idiotic decision I haven't been "discriminated against" because Brexit happen. That's democracy, not discrimination.

You would be mistaken then. Democracy is clearly a form of discrimination against the minority. You were just conditioned to accept it.
Literally quoted the definition above:

Discrimination can mean "recognition and understanding of the difference between one thing and another."
But the definition which most people understand is "the unjust or prejudicial treatment of different categories of people, especially on the grounds of race, age, sex, or disability."

I've not been discriminated against because we have left the EU. We had a vote, my side lost. I'm still waiting to see what the other side won, but regardless I haven't been discriminated against

The majority is not inherently correct, and nor should it be inherently followed. In the 1600's people believed in the existence of witches and burned young women at the stake. They were not correct because they were the majority. Democracy can be a form of mob rule. It is a form of discrimination against the minority.

The Founders of the United States recognized this and framed the US as a republic with a Constitution and Bill of Rights which prevented the mob from trampling on certain inalienable rights. It is not a direct democracy where the majority can do anything they please. Representatives vote on laws and in elections, not the people directly. In US Presidential elections the person who wins the popular vote can sometimes lose the electoral vote.

Representative democracy has been seen as far superior, since smaller groups of people elect who they think is the best or most qualified person for the job and to pass a law you have to convince a series of qualified people to vote for it, not the masses who may be uneducated or easily convinced. The Ancient Greeks also recognized the danger of direct democracy and scholars like Plato critiqued it harshly.
« Last Edit: June 27, 2022, 08:54:48 AM by Tom Bishop »

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Offline stack

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Re: The Texas GOP
« Reply #57 on: June 27, 2022, 08:53:47 AM »
Do you want to get rid of The Americans with Disabilities Act (ADA)?

For reference: The ADA is a civil rights law that prohibits discrimination against individuals with disabilities in all areas of public life, including jobs, schools, transportation, and all public and private places that are open to the general public.

Re: The Texas GOP
« Reply #58 on: June 27, 2022, 10:33:01 AM »
It is not a direct democracy where the majority can do anything they please. Representatives vote on laws and in elections, not the people directly.
And how's that working out for you?
I don't think any countries have a direct democracy. We have representative democracy here but we have a particularly poor version of it where we are always governed by a government which the minority of people voted for. I think representative democracy is the least bad way of making laws but our version of it needs a lot of improvement.

I wouldn't (edited - I originally put would, incorrectly) advocate direct democracy, partly because people are by and large idiots but also because you can't ask "the people" about every piddling thing. But even when we do have occasional referendums on bigger issues - I think the majority got it wrong on Brexit but I don't feel I've been discriminated against. The majority got what they wanted for good or ill.
« Last Edit: June 27, 2022, 06:55:13 PM by AllAroundTheWorld »
Tom: "Claiming incredulity is a pretty bad argument. Calling it "insane" or "ridiculous" is not a good argument at all."

TFES Wiki Occam's Razor page, by Tom: "What's the simplest explanation; that NASA has successfully designed and invented never before seen rocket technologies from scratch which can accelerate 100 tons of matter to an escape velocity of 7 miles per second"

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Online Pete Svarrior

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Re: The Texas GOP
« Reply #59 on: June 27, 2022, 10:35:51 AM »
I think the majority got it wrong on Brexit but I don't feel I've been discriminated against.
You don't, being presumably British, but there are large groups of people that do. A slim majority dicating whether the rights of others should be taken away is a deeply flawed system, too.
Read the FAQ before asking your question - chances are we already addressed it.
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