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Offline PraiseGOD

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Investigating flight paths experiment for round earthers
« on: March 15, 2022, 11:38:34 PM »
I challenge round earthers to an experiment. Google search and find an airline plane ticket booking website of your choosing. Search for flights from and to the following two destinations below:

Perth (Australia) ---------> Buenos Aires (Argentina)

Auckland (New Zealand) ---------> Cape town (Africa)


Filter for "fastest". Now click on any of the first few and plot the flight path on a globe earth and then on a flat earth map. Report back with results.

Google Earth:
https://earth.google.com/

Flat Earth map:
https://wiki.tfes.org/File:Map.png





EDIT: Here are the results of the investigation:



Perth (Australia) <--------> Buenos Aires (Argentina)


Investigation:
Now let’s see which way the fastest available commercial flight route takes us…

1.


2.


3.


4. Plotting on our maps:
PER Perth --> DOH Hamad International --> GRU Sao Paulo --> AEP Buenos Aires


Auckland (New Zealand) <------> Cape town (Africa)


Investigation:
Now let’s see which way the fastest available commercial flight route takes us…

1.


2.


3.


4. Plotting on our maps:
AKL Auckland --> SYD Sydney --> SIN Singapore --> JNB Johannesburg --> CPT Cape Town


But don’t take my word for it.. try it yourself. You’ll actually find some flight paths that seem to go right over the North pole on a flat earth map..
« Last Edit: March 16, 2022, 11:28:22 AM by PraiseGOD »
Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.
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Offline Tumeni

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Re: Investigating flight paths experiment for round earthers
« Reply #1 on: March 15, 2022, 11:55:01 PM »
I'd like to join in, but there seems to be a lack of available flights at the moment due to .. you know .. the pandemic and such.

I spent some time on it, but gave up. Sorry.
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Offline PraiseGOD

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Re: Investigating flight paths experiment for round earthers
« Reply #2 on: March 16, 2022, 12:00:04 AM »
I'd like to join in, but there seems to be a lack of available flights at the moment due to .. you know .. the pandemic and such.

I spent some time on it, but gave up. Sorry.

Try searching for April/May flights
Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.
(Revelation 14:12)

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Offline stack

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Re: Investigating flight paths experiment for round earthers
« Reply #3 on: March 16, 2022, 12:37:23 AM »
I'd like to join in, but there seems to be a lack of available flights at the moment due to .. you know .. the pandemic and such.

I spent some time on it, but gave up. Sorry.

Try searching for April/May flights

What are we looking for exactly? Non-stop flights?

If so, in the meantime, I couldn't find any non-stops for the cities you mentioned. But there's a non-stop from Sydney to Johannesburg:


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Offline jomples

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Re: Investigating flight paths experiment for round earthers
« Reply #4 on: March 16, 2022, 12:41:20 AM »
I've personally taken several flights from Brisbane, Australia to Dallas and vise versa. Not sure how useful that is. As I recall, it took about 17 hours. Long enough to fit in quite a few in flight movies. I will say that I usually slept for a while, but I did stay up the whole time once, and I managed to fit in 5 movies and 6, almost 7, episodes of Top Gear, which seems in line with the flight time. The in-flight entertainment systems include a very nice map that lets you see where you are at any point, how long you've been flying, how long is left.  I don't think Quantas flies that route any more, but it was one of the longest in the world at one point.

Sidebar, if anyone flies Quantas at any point, try getting upgraded to first class somehow. It's almost never full, and it's palatial. I took some flights back and forth on company dollar for a relocation, and racked up enough frequent flier points to upgrade from business class. Worth it.

Cheers.
« Last Edit: March 16, 2022, 12:49:58 AM by jomples »

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Offline PraiseGOD

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Re: Investigating flight paths experiment for round earthers
« Reply #5 on: March 16, 2022, 12:47:47 AM »
I'd like to join in, but there seems to be a lack of available flights at the moment due to .. you know .. the pandemic and such.

I spent some time on it, but gave up. Sorry.

Try searching for April/May flights

What are we looking for exactly? Non-stop flights?

If so, in the meantime, I couldn't find any non-stops for the cities you mentioned. But there's a non-stop from Sydney to Johannesburg:



No non-stop flights between those destinations - you found this too. Interesting.

Plot the fastest flight route (multiple destinations) you can find between my specified flight paths:

Perth (Australia) ---------> Buenos Aires (Argentina)

Auckland (New Zealand) ---------> Cape town (Africa)

Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.
(Revelation 14:12)

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Offline PraiseGOD

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Re: Investigating flight paths experiment for round earthers
« Reply #6 on: March 16, 2022, 12:56:45 AM »
I've personally taken several flights from Brisbane, Australia to Dallas and vise versa. Not sure how useful that is. As I recall, it took about 17 hours. Long enough to fit in quite a few in flight movies. I will say that I usually slept for a while, but I did stay up the whole time once, and I managed to fit in 5 movies and 6, almost 7, episodes of Top Gear, which seems in line with the flight time. The in-flight entertainment systems include a very nice map that lets you see where you are at any point, how long you've been flying, how long is left.  I don't think Quantas flies that route any more, but it was one of the longest in the world at one point.

Sidebar, if anyone flies Quantas at any point, try getting upgraded to first class somehow. It's almost never full, and it's palatial. I took some flights back and forth on company dollar for a relocation, and racked up enough frequent flier points to upgrade from business class. Worth it.

Cheers.

[Edit: Just checked- on a Globe Earth, that flight is 8,943 km, and a flat earth has a 10,869 km flight. That's with a northern monopole map. ]

A 2000km difference is not enough to come to any conclusions here. That is why I ask you to specifically check:

Perth (Australia) ---------> Buenos Aires (Argentina) | Globe Earth = 13,000km, Flat Earth = ~25,000km

Auckland (New Zealand) ---------> Cape town (Africa) | Globe Earth = 11,000km, Flat Earth = ~26,000km
Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.
(Revelation 14:12)

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Offline stack

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Re: Investigating flight paths experiment for round earthers
« Reply #7 on: March 16, 2022, 01:00:53 AM »
I'd like to join in, but there seems to be a lack of available flights at the moment due to .. you know .. the pandemic and such.

I spent some time on it, but gave up. Sorry.

Try searching for April/May flights

What are we looking for exactly? Non-stop flights?

If so, in the meantime, I couldn't find any non-stops for the cities you mentioned. But there's a non-stop from Sydney to Johannesburg:



No non-stop flights between those destinations - you found this too. Interesting.

Plot the fastest flight route (multiple destinations) you can find between my specified flight paths:

Perth (Australia) ---------> Buenos Aires (Argentina)

Auckland (New Zealand) ---------> Cape town (Africa)

Why is that "interesting"?

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Offline jomples

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Re: Investigating flight paths experiment for round earthers
« Reply #8 on: March 16, 2022, 01:10:08 AM »
Found this chap. https://twitter.com/AndrewNJHawkins/status/1229047749871452162 Aussie bloke who flew from Sydney to Johannesburg, verified on Twitter. Looks like he left behind schedule and arrived ahead. I know this probably won't prove much, but I'm now checking to see if he posted anything before leaving and after arriving, so I can see if there are timestamps. Will edit with findings.

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Offline PraiseGOD

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Re: Investigating flight paths experiment for round earthers
« Reply #9 on: March 16, 2022, 01:15:09 AM »
I'd like to join in, but there seems to be a lack of available flights at the moment due to .. you know .. the pandemic and such.

I spent some time on it, but gave up. Sorry.

Try searching for April/May flights

What are we looking for exactly? Non-stop flights?

If so, in the meantime, I couldn't find any non-stops for the cities you mentioned. But there's a non-stop from Sydney to Johannesburg:



No non-stop flights between those destinations - you found this too. Interesting.

Plot the fastest flight route (multiple destinations) you can find between my specified flight paths:

Perth (Australia) ---------> Buenos Aires (Argentina)

Auckland (New Zealand) ---------> Cape town (Africa)

Why is that "interesting"?

They're only 13,000km and 11,000km away on a globe earth. Can be easily traversed in a one-way flight. At 900km/hr that is a 14.5hr and 12hr flight respectively.  Yet they never seem to be traversed in one go and the shortest travel time along each of those flight paths I could find was 29 hours.

Perth (Australia) ---------> Buenos Aires (Argentina) | Globe Earth = 13,000km, Flat Earth = ~25,000km

Auckland (New Zealand) ---------> Cape town (Africa) | Globe Earth = 11,000km, Flat Earth = ~26,000km
Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.
(Revelation 14:12)

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Offline PraiseGOD

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Re: Investigating flight paths experiment for round earthers
« Reply #10 on: March 16, 2022, 01:20:09 AM »
Found this chap. https://twitter.com/AndrewNJHawkins/status/1229047749871452162 Aussie bloke who flew from Sydney to Johannesburg, verified on Twitter. Looks like he left behind schedule and arrived ahead. I know this probably won't prove much, but I'm now checking to see if he posted anything before leaving and after arriving, so I can see if there are timestamps. Will edit with findings.

I'm asking for the following:

Perth (Australia) ---------> Buenos Aires (Argentina)

Auckland (New Zealand) ---------> Cape town (Africa)


Stop trying to deflect with your Sydney to Johannesburg flights.
Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.
(Revelation 14:12)

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Offline jomples

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Re: Investigating flight paths experiment for round earthers
« Reply #11 on: March 16, 2022, 01:39:39 AM »
Some airlines don't fly direct routes because they don't make sense. If you're doing an long haul flight, you have to be able to fill seats on those planes. Perth and Buenos Aires have a combined total of about 5 million people. Both are moderately substantial population centers. But how many people in Perth have business in Argentina? Same thing with Auckland to Cape Town. Cape Town's fairly big, about 4 million, but Auckland has 1.3 million. Again, would it logistically make sense to operate a direct flight? Or does it make sense to have those people get on other flights that travel between more populated locations- flights which will fill more easily? That's the airline business model.

The flights you asked us to find don't make logistical sense in either world- not enough people to fill flights. But more importantly, the cities you mentioned aren't really cities with airports that are hubs. They have international airports, but regions will typically have certain international airports that serve as gateways to the rest of the world, and will handle a great deal of passengers both direct and transfer- London Heathrow, Dallas Fort Worth, LA International, Sydney International, Johannesburg International.

TL;DR: Direct flights don't exist between those airports because that's not how airlines work and it wouldn't make sense in any world. I've answered your question to the best of my ability, now please answer mine.


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Offline PraiseGOD

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Re: Investigating flight paths experiment for round earthers
« Reply #12 on: March 16, 2022, 01:51:30 AM »
Some airlines don't fly direct routes because they don't make sense. If you're doing an long haul flight, you have to be able to fill seats on those planes. Perth and Buenos Aires have a combined total of about 5 million people. Both are moderately substantial population centers. But how many people in Perth have business in Argentina? Same thing with Auckland to Cape Town. Cape Town's fairly big, about 4 million, but Auckland has 1.3 million. Again, would it logistically make sense to operate a direct flight? Or does it make sense to have those people get on other flights that travel between more populated locations- flights which will fill more easily? That's the airline business model.

The flights you asked us to find don't make logistical sense in either world- not enough people to fill flights. But more importantly, the cities you mentioned aren't really cities with airports that are hubs. They have international airports, but regions will typically have certain international airports that serve as gateways to the rest of the world, and will handle a great deal of passengers both direct and transfer- London Heathrow, Dallas Fort Worth, LA International, Sydney International, Johannesburg International.

TL;DR: Direct flights don't exist between those airports because that's not how airlines work and it wouldn't make sense in any world. I've answered your question to the best of my ability, now please answer mine.

No you have not answered my "question" (Investigation). All you have provided is a long winded explanation as to why you won't participate in my investigation.

Remember I asked you to investigate and plot the fastest available commercial routes of the following 2 flight paths on a globe earth vs a flat earth model (can be multiple stops):

Perth (Australia) ---------> Buenos Aires (Argentina)

Auckland (New Zealand) ---------> Cape town (Africa)



Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.
(Revelation 14:12)

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Offline jomples

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Re: Investigating flight paths experiment for round earthers
« Reply #13 on: March 16, 2022, 02:01:50 AM »
This metaphor will be rather lengthy and disconnected from the situation, but I think it’s the best way to explain it. Let’s say that an airline is a bakery. They have an oven that they can use to make any kind of cupcake, but it makes them in batches of 500 (around the average seating load of an A380.) Let’s say that somebody who wants to fly from Perth to Buenos Aires is represented by someone who likes caramel carrot cupcakes.
 They exist, sure, but there aren’t a lot. If the bakery made a batch of caramel carrot cupcakes, they’d throw most of them out, and lose a lot of money.

You’re saying that because the bakery doesn’t make caramel carrot cupcakes, they can’t make caramel carrot cupcakes, and therefore they can’t make cupcakes with caramel at all. They can. But it makes no sense. However, plenty of people like caramel chocolate cupcakes. And the bakery makes them. I’m showing you a caramel chocolate cupcake. But you keep on asking why there aren’t any caramel carrot cupcakes. I'd go on, but that would be stretching the metaphor.

I'll participate in your investigation, though. For the sake of argument. But just a couple of quick things before I start:

1. Have you already found these routes, and if so could you just post them and let us check them? It would save a great deal of time for all involved.
2. As an experienced flyer, let me just add before the debate starts that lengthy layovers are common on lesser-flown routes, because plane schedules don't always line up. You can spend a comparable amount of time in airports as you do in the air. I had a 12 hour layover in Dallas once, which wasn't fun. Just in case I see where this is going.

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Offline stack

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Re: Investigating flight paths experiment for round earthers
« Reply #14 on: March 16, 2022, 02:31:49 AM »
Some airlines don't fly direct routes because they don't make sense. If you're doing an long haul flight, you have to be able to fill seats on those planes. Perth and Buenos Aires have a combined total of about 5 million people. Both are moderately substantial population centers. But how many people in Perth have business in Argentina? Same thing with Auckland to Cape Town. Cape Town's fairly big, about 4 million, but Auckland has 1.3 million. Again, would it logistically make sense to operate a direct flight? Or does it make sense to have those people get on other flights that travel between more populated locations- flights which will fill more easily? That's the airline business model.

The flights you asked us to find don't make logistical sense in either world- not enough people to fill flights. But more importantly, the cities you mentioned aren't really cities with airports that are hubs. They have international airports, but regions will typically have certain international airports that serve as gateways to the rest of the world, and will handle a great deal of passengers both direct and transfer- London Heathrow, Dallas Fort Worth, LA International, Sydney International, Johannesburg International.

TL;DR: Direct flights don't exist between those airports because that's not how airlines work and it wouldn't make sense in any world. I've answered your question to the best of my ability, now please answer mine.

No you have not answered my "question" (Investigation). All you have provided is a long winded explanation as to why you won't participate in my investigation.

Remember I asked you to investigate and plot the fastest available commercial routes of the following 2 flight paths on a globe earth vs a flat earth model (can be multiple stops):

Perth (Australia) ---------> Buenos Aires (Argentina)

Auckland (New Zealand) ---------> Cape town (Africa)



I don't understand what this "investigation" is. Is it that there isn't currently a non-stop between Perth and Buenos Aires? So what? Who says there has to be? Are there non-stops between every city in the world?

What about Sydney to Johanassberg. That's about 11,000 km? Is the issue 12,000km versus 11,000km?

Why don’t you plot out what you want and demonstrate what it is you are looking for. I already plotted a southern route out, not sure why you are dismissing it.
« Last Edit: March 16, 2022, 02:46:52 AM by stack »

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Offline jomples

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Re: Investigating flight paths experiment for round earthers
« Reply #15 on: March 16, 2022, 03:03:44 AM »
If I understand the goal of the investigation correctly, it is this- because of Perth's location, the fastest route goes from Perth, to Quatar, to Sao Paolo, to Buenos Aires. It looks like a big arc towards the equator, and I understand what he's getting at- it does look like one that would take place on a flat Earth. I haven't even looked at the other one, but I'd wager it's similar.

But these examples are very much cherry picked.  The aim is not to show that there are no non-stops, but that these flight paths make more sense when plotted on flat earth. If your only concern is distance as the crow flies. Otherwise, it's more complex. Perth's in the middle of bloody nowhere, and it's just about as easy to fly one way as the other. It's just a matter of logistics. The fastest routes for these happen to take large detours because of scheduling. But there are so many other routes that... don't do this. Case in point, direct from Johannesburg to Sydney.

BTW, I found a route that doesn't go super far north from Auckland to Cape Town. It's just slightly more expensive- Auckland to Sydney (3 h 50 min), Sydney to Johannesburg https://www.expedia.com/Flights-Search?leg1=from%3ASydney%20Airport%20%28SYD%29%2Cto%3AJohannesburg%20%28JNB%20-%20All%20Airports%29%2Cdeparture%3A8%2F8%2F2022TANYT&mode=search&options=carrier%3A%2A%2Ccabinclass%3A%2Cmaxhops%3A1%2Cnopenalty%3AN&pageId=0&passengers=adults%3A1%2Cchildren%3A0%2Cinfantinlap%3AN&trip=oneway(14 h 5 min), Johannesburg to Cape Town (2 h 10 min). Total of 20 h 5 min, but keep in mind that doesn't include the time it takes to get up and down from cruising altitude, as well as runway time.

Offline Gonzo

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Re: Investigating flight paths experiment for round earthers
« Reply #16 on: March 16, 2022, 08:39:03 AM »
As has been said, due to the pandemic, especially the travel restrictions in Australia and NZ, aviation is nowhere near where it was in this area pre-pandemic.

If you go to both Perth and Auckland airports’ website departures page, you will see the selection of destinations each airport serves direct.

It’s far fewer than pre-pandemic.

Such routes as you suggest will, at the moment, always be routed through hubs such as Dubai or Singapore.

Why are you specifically asking for those routes?

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Offline Tumeni

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Re: Investigating flight paths experiment for round earthers
« Reply #17 on: March 16, 2022, 09:24:32 AM »
All you have provided is a long winded explanation as to why you won't participate in my investigation.

... and I gave you a short-winded one.

If sufficient people do this, with various explanations as to why, this will tell you something....
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Offline PraiseGOD

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Re: Investigating flight paths experiment for round earthers
« Reply #18 on: March 16, 2022, 10:47:35 AM »
All you have provided is a long winded explanation as to why you won't participate in my investigation.

... and I gave you a short-winded one.

If sufficient people do this, with various explanations as to why, this will tell you something....

Unbelievable so it's either covid or Putin's fault LOL. Am I talking to the channel 9 news?
Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.
(Revelation 14:12)

Re: Investigating flight paths experiment for round earthers
« Reply #19 on: March 16, 2022, 10:52:01 AM »
Perth (Australia) ---------> Buenos Aires (Argentina)

Auckland (New Zealand) ---------> Cape town (Africa)


Filter for "fastest". Now click on any of the first few and plot the flight path on a globe earth and then on a flat earth map. Report back with results.
As others have mentioned, why are you cherry picking those particular routes?
The lack of a direct flight between 2 cities is evidence of nothing more than a lack of demand for one.
Where there is a direct flight the route can be used to investigate claims about the shape of the earth.
Where there isn't it doesn't tell you anything of much use other than how airlines operate and where their hubs are.
Tom: "Claiming incredulity is a pretty bad argument. Calling it "insane" or "ridiculous" is not a good argument at all."

TFES Wiki Occam's Razor page, by Tom: "What's the simplest explanation; that NASA has successfully designed and invented never before seen rocket technologies from scratch which can accelerate 100 tons of matter to an escape velocity of 7 miles per second"