Most of us here have encountered it everywhere, where someone that’s technically a “globe earther” never really engaged in discourse about the shape of the earth or thought about it beyond surface level.

The average person that isn’t interested in science/space discussion likely has a simplified set of views about our world, such as “when you get high enough, gravity just turns off in space” or “spacesuits are made of cloth”. It’s (generally!) these people that become flat earthers, and start to learn more. It’s led to years of debate and discussion and scientific experiments, which I think is great.

Where flat earth discussion falls flat is the literalism behind it, and this honestly kills a lot of discussion as people outside the FE community are turned off by that sort of thing.

Starting with skepticism, years of debate and independent research/learning/logic etc. has led me to have a personal understanding of the natural world that wasn’t simply fed to me (that corroborates with the globally-accepted heliocentric model).

It’s a fantastic educational experience (thought experiment), and there’s lots of us that end up with reaffirmed knowledge of the globe earth after years of this. I just wish there wasn’t this sense of literalism tied to the discourse where you have people believing that world is LITERALLY flat, it seems like this has been a detriment to the community.
« Last Edit: March 15, 2022, 08:20:18 AM by secretagent10 »

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Offline Pete Svarrior

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Re: Flat earth discourse is valuable without the literalism involved.
« Reply #1 on: March 07, 2022, 09:43:22 AM »
Where did you get the idea that you *have to* believe one way or another? That directly contradicts everything we've been saying about our purpose here.
Read the FAQ before asking your question - chances are we already addressed it.
Follow the Flat Earth Society on Twitter and Facebook!

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Offline Tumeni

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Re: Flat earth discourse is valuable without the literalism involved.
« Reply #2 on: March 07, 2022, 09:50:47 AM »
What should FE discussion have, if not "literalism" ?

Lyricism? Poeticism?

Why should FE-ers not be taken literally?
=============================
Not Flat. Happy to prove this, if you ask me.
=============================

Nearly all flat earthers agree the earth is not a globe.

Nearly?

Re: Flat earth discourse is valuable without the literalism involved.
« Reply #3 on: March 07, 2022, 11:13:08 AM »
It’s a fantastic educational experience (thought experiment)
I have come to the view that for many on here that is what FE is - a thought experiment.
If the earth were flat then how would you explain sunrise, for example. We know that the sun doesn't go physically under the earth, it's always day time somewhere. So how does that work?
We know that gravity pulls things towards the centre of mass, but on earth we fall down. So how does that work?
And so on.

As a thought experiment it is quite interesting, I have more issues with it as a literal belief as that involves a myriad of conspiracy theories and dismissal of pretty much all scientific knowledge.
Which is not in itself harmful - I mean, it doesn't really matter what shape the earth is. But when that sort of thinking extends to Covid, Global Warming etc  - that's where the dangers lie.
Tom: "Claiming incredulity is a pretty bad argument. Calling it "insane" or "ridiculous" is not a good argument at all."

TFES Wiki Occam's Razor page, by Tom: "What's the simplest explanation; that NASA has successfully designed and invented never before seen rocket technologies from scratch which can accelerate 100 tons of matter to an escape velocity of 7 miles per second"

Offline Action80

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Re: Flat earth discourse is valuable without the literalism involved.
« Reply #4 on: March 11, 2022, 02:22:45 PM »
Yeah, it is actually RE adherents running the Biolabs performing gain of function research and setting loose dangerous pathogens, waging an elemental war on the very substance that comprises most everything that exists in the universe, and starting and fomenting death and destruction among all the peoples of the flat earth.

None of these very real things have been set loose upon humanity by any FE adherent.

Globesters don't care about people.
 
It's so hard to have faith in humanity when they do shit like this.

"I hate the police so I'm gonna burn a Walgreen's!"

Re: Flat earth discourse is valuable without the literalism involved.
« Reply #5 on: March 13, 2022, 09:39:40 AM »
Quote
Yeah, it is actually RE adherents running the Biolabs performing gain of function research and setting loose dangerous pathogens, waging an elemental war on the very substance that comprises most everything that exists in the universe, and starting and fomenting death and destruction among all the peoples of the flat earth.

None of these very real things have been set loose upon humanity by any FE adherent.

Globesters don't care about people.

A couple of points here my friend, are you saying that all Ball Earthers are callously and deliberately endangering the planet?  Sure, there are a lot of Ball Earthers who are screwing the planet over, but that's just because there are more ball Earthers than Flat Earthers per capita, so of course, in a ven diagram the Ball Earthers who don't care will be substantially more.

Are you saying there is causation between RE belief and harmful acts against the planet? To what end?  we have to share the wonderful world together, no matter what shape it is.
In my experience, a lot of ecologically aware people are Ball Earthers, but again, is that just because there are more RE than FE people in the general population?

Peace brother,
RBD

Offline Action80

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Re: Flat earth discourse is valuable without the literalism involved.
« Reply #6 on: March 13, 2022, 04:10:38 PM »
Quote
Yeah, it is actually RE adherents running the Biolabs performing gain of function research and setting loose dangerous pathogens, waging an elemental war on the very substance that comprises most everything that exists in the universe, and starting and fomenting death and destruction among all the peoples of the flat earth.

None of these very real things have been set loose upon humanity by any FE adherent.

Globesters don't care about people.

A couple of points here my friend, are you saying that all Ball Earthers are callously and deliberately endangering the planet?
Yes.
Sure, there are a lot of Ball Earthers who are screwing the planet over, but that's just because there are more ball Earthers than Flat Earthers per capita, so of course, in a ven diagram the Ball Earthers who don't care will be substantially more.
100 percent is 100 percent.
Are you saying there is causation between RE belief and harmful acts against the planet? To what end?  we have to share the wonderful world together, no matter what shape it is.
In my experience, a lot of ecologically aware people are Ball Earthers, but again, is that just because there are more RE than FE people in the general population?

Peace brother,
RBD
I don't know if there is a causal link or not, and I do not care.

I was pointing out the fact that globesters typically engage in the blame game, trying to pin things like Covid, climate change, etc., on FE, and that it is in fact globesters who practice the stupid science when it comes to such things.
It's so hard to have faith in humanity when they do shit like this.

"I hate the police so I'm gonna burn a Walgreen's!"

Re: Flat earth discourse is valuable without the literalism involved.
« Reply #7 on: March 13, 2022, 04:35:24 PM »
So globesters are blaming FE for Covid and climate change.   

I see. 

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Offline stack

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Re: Flat earth discourse is valuable without the literalism involved.
« Reply #8 on: March 13, 2022, 06:34:09 PM »
I was pointing out the fact that globesters typically engage in the blame game, trying to pin things like Covid, climate change, etc., on FE, and that it is in fact globesters who practice the stupid science when it comes to such things.

I can't say I've ever seen anyone pin Covid or Climate Change on FE. Do you have an example? Is yours an extrapolation that some folks see FE as a pseudoscience/anti-science kind of thing?

Re: Flat earth discourse is valuable without the literalism involved.
« Reply #9 on: March 13, 2022, 06:52:25 PM »
The only link is in the response to Covid or climate change. The same thinking which helps people fall down the FE rabbit hole also helps them fall down anti-vaxx or climate change denial rabbit holes.

It’s not a link so much as an underlying root cause
Tom: "Claiming incredulity is a pretty bad argument. Calling it "insane" or "ridiculous" is not a good argument at all."

TFES Wiki Occam's Razor page, by Tom: "What's the simplest explanation; that NASA has successfully designed and invented never before seen rocket technologies from scratch which can accelerate 100 tons of matter to an escape velocity of 7 miles per second"

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Offline stack

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Re: Flat earth discourse is valuable without the literalism involved.
« Reply #10 on: March 13, 2022, 07:25:03 PM »
That's pretty much the theme of the latest FE book out, "Off the Edge: Flat Earthers, Conspiracy Culture, and Why People Will Believe Anything"

Offline Action80

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Re: Flat earth discourse is valuable without the literalism involved.
« Reply #11 on: March 13, 2022, 08:50:50 PM »
I was pointing out the fact that globesters typically engage in the blame game, trying to pin things like Covid, climate change, etc., on FE, and that it is in fact globesters who practice the stupid science when it comes to such things.
I can't say I've ever seen anyone pin Covid or Climate Change on FE. Do you have an example? Is yours an extrapolation that some folks see FE as a pseudoscience/anti-science kind of thing?
Yeah, following below:
As a thought experiment it is quite interesting, I have more issues with it as a literal belief as that involves a myriad of conspiracy theories and dismissal of pretty much all scientific knowledge.
Which is not in itself harmful - I mean, it doesn't really matter what shape the earth is. But when that sort of thinking extends to Covid, Global Warming etc  - that's where the dangers lie.
And then the follow up:
The only link is in the response to Covid or climate change. The same thinking which helps people fall down the FE rabbit hole also helps them fall down anti-vaxx or climate change denial rabbit holes.

It’s not a link so much as an underlying root cause
As if a link is not a cause.

So much disingenuous rhetorical garbage in that post.

A vast majority of unvaccinated people are globesters.

A vast majority of the climate change deniers and the idiots pursuing man-made solutions, which is quite simply ridiculous in and of itself, are globesters.

Seems you have quite a bit of influence to exercise in your own community of fellow believers first, rather than proselytize here.
« Last Edit: March 13, 2022, 09:50:27 PM by Action80 »
It's so hard to have faith in humanity when they do shit like this.

"I hate the police so I'm gonna burn a Walgreen's!"

Re: Flat earth discourse is valuable without the literalism involved.
« Reply #12 on: March 13, 2022, 09:59:48 PM »
As if a link is not a cause.
Correct, it isn't. I'm talking about a common root cause.
Your mum caused you to be born. Her sister caused your cousin to be. Your grandmother is the underlying root cause of both you and your cousin. So you and your cousin are linked but you did not "cause" your cousin nor he/she you. See?

A vast majority of unvaccinated people are globesters.
Well, sure. Because the vast majority of people are.
But I bet most of the anti vaxxers also believe in other conspiracy theory nonsense. They might not have fallen so far down those rabbit holes to have fallen down this one, but the root cause, the underlying psychology, is the same. I don't blame FE for Covid or Climate Change, I'm not trying to "pin" those things on FE, that makes no sense. But the underlying psychology is common amongst FE, climate change denial and anti vaxxers - the distrust of the mainstream and subject matter experts, the belief that "they" are conspiring to misinform you because reasons.
Tom: "Claiming incredulity is a pretty bad argument. Calling it "insane" or "ridiculous" is not a good argument at all."

TFES Wiki Occam's Razor page, by Tom: "What's the simplest explanation; that NASA has successfully designed and invented never before seen rocket technologies from scratch which can accelerate 100 tons of matter to an escape velocity of 7 miles per second"

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Offline stack

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Re: Flat earth discourse is valuable without the literalism involved.
« Reply #13 on: March 14, 2022, 05:32:21 AM »
A vast majority of unvaccinated people are globesters.

Sure, the vast majority of unvaccinated people are globesters. Are you really struggling with this concept?

Offline Action80

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Re: Flat earth discourse is valuable without the literalism involved.
« Reply #14 on: March 14, 2022, 10:21:08 AM »
As if a link is not a cause.
Correct, it isn't. I'm talking about a common root cause.
Your mum caused you to be born. Her sister caused your cousin to be. Your grandmother is the underlying root cause of both you and your cousin. So you and your cousin are linked but you did not "cause" your cousin nor he/she you. See?
It is still a link. If no cause, then no linking. You're engaged in semantical games.
A vast majority of unvaccinated people are globesters.
Well, sure. Because the vast majority of people are.
But I bet most of the anti vaxxers also believe in other conspiracy theory nonsense. They might not have fallen so far down those rabbit holes to have fallen down this one, but the root cause, the underlying psychology, is the same. I don't blame FE for Covid or Climate Change, I'm not trying to "pin" those things on FE, that makes no sense. But the underlying psychology is common amongst FE, climate change denial and anti vaxxers - the distrust of the mainstream and subject matter experts, the belief that "they" are conspiring to misinform you because reasons.
Unvaccinated people are not anti-vaxx. Keep choosing the terminology to make yourself comfortable with your thoughts, however.

Doesn't help you or the people you claim to want to help in any fashion, messiah.
« Last Edit: March 14, 2022, 04:50:30 PM by Action80 »
It's so hard to have faith in humanity when they do shit like this.

"I hate the police so I'm gonna burn a Walgreen's!"

Offline Action80

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Re: Flat earth discourse is valuable without the literalism involved.
« Reply #15 on: March 14, 2022, 10:22:45 AM »
A vast majority of unvaccinated people are globesters.

Sure, the vast majority of unvaccinated people are globesters. Are you really struggling with this concept?
Not at all, just stating facts. You're struggling with it, posting on a FE forum.
It's so hard to have faith in humanity when they do shit like this.

"I hate the police so I'm gonna burn a Walgreen's!"

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Offline stack

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Re: Flat earth discourse is valuable without the literalism involved.
« Reply #16 on: March 14, 2022, 07:21:54 PM »
A vast majority of unvaccinated people are globesters.

Sure, the vast majority of unvaccinated people are globesters. Are you really struggling with this concept?
Not at all, just stating facts. You're struggling with it, posting on a FE forum.

The vast majority of people are globesters. Is that not a fact? It also seems like the vast majority of posters on FE forums are globesters too. Although I don't know that for a fact.

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Offline Tron

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Re: Flat earth discourse is valuable without the literalism involved.
« Reply #17 on: March 14, 2022, 08:12:55 PM »
I can speak from personal experience about having faith in a Spherical world to that of a Flat one - like I actually believe it's probably true.  My research methods have evolved over time and I transfer these methods into politics and in every area of my life. In some cases I change my thinking or add to it.

It's not a negative thing for everyone.  You learn alot in the process and it's not like you "forget" what the other side is saying.
« Last Edit: March 14, 2022, 08:14:26 PM by MetaTron »
What if the Earth is flat but looks round?

Re: Flat earth discourse is valuable without the literalism involved.
« Reply #18 on: March 15, 2022, 08:21:38 AM »
Where did you get the idea that you *have to* believe one way or another? That directly contradicts everything we've been saying about our purpose here.

Reworded the original post to convey what I meant. I understand that nobody’s saying you “have to” believe anything.

Re: Flat earth discourse is valuable without the literalism involved.
« Reply #19 on: March 15, 2022, 08:31:43 AM »
As a thought experiment it is quite interesting, I have more issues with it as a literal belief as that involves a myriad of conspiracy theories and dismissal of pretty much all scientific knowledge.
Which is not in itself harmful - I mean, it doesn't really matter what shape the earth is. But when that sort of thinking extends to Covid, Global Warming etc  - that's where the dangers lie.

I agree. It seems that literal belief in FE is ironically a symptom of not becoming learned in the topic.

Many FE arguments are born from a sort of misunderstanding about observable phenomena, such as denial of the conservation of momentum/rockets in a vacuum. It becomes a mix of Olympic mental gymnastics and a simple lack of intuitive understanding of physics.

So many argument tactics used by FE proponents are so blatantly dishonest and diversionary. That doesn’t mean FE isn’t a great exercise in what “knowing” is and how to find the answers yourself!
« Last Edit: March 15, 2022, 08:34:09 AM by secretagent10 »