[AATW]

The distances between cities is well known and are quite well represented in a flat plane presentation.

Amazing. Now all you have to do is show us the map…

[Action80]

The distances between cities is well known and are quite well represented in a flat plane presentation.

Amazing. Now all you have to do is show us the map…

Take your pick.

[Lord Dave]

The distances between cities is well known and are quite well represented in a flat plane presentation.

Amazing. Now all you have to do is show us the map…

Take your pick.

World map.

Please show us the distance from NY to paris and NY to Moscow.

Then go measure it yourself.  You know, to be sure.

[JSS]

Which next leads to the follow up,"Why of course! How does this concern the shape of the earth?"

So because an argument leads somewhere you don't like, you won't follow it?  Who is presupposing here?

It's a rather direct question. Can you answer it?

I've answered it many times. It shows that if you can plot the distances between cities on a sphere, then the surface can not be a plane because the topological surfaces are incompatible. The same works in reverse, if the Earth is flat then a globe map can't show the distances between all cities correctly.

Your example of "I can make a flat map of my grocery store so the earth is flat" shows that you didn't really grasp this. Saying that it demonstrates nothing in support of the earth being a sphere shows that you still may not fully understand.

Take the known distances between cities and try and fit them onto a flat map, you can't.

Nonsense. The distances between cities is well known and are quite well represented in a flat plane presentation.

Please provide your source for this claim.  Which flat map shows the correct distances between cities on all 7 continents?  Please link to it.

It's a rather direct question. Can you answer it?

Try it on a sphere and you will find that they fit.

This is what wrapping a sphere demonstrates. That if you can fit a set of points onto a sphere, it's because they represent a sphere. They simply can't have those distances and directions on anything but a sphere. It explains why you have so much trouble making a flat map of the earth that works.

Your argument fails. Every map I use to navigate is flat in presentation and works just fine.

I use a globe map for navigation and it works just fine.  It works better than any flat map I have seen because it shows the entire planet to scale with no distortions. There is no flat map of the entire earth where you can measure distances with a ruler anywhere without severe distortions.  If there is, please link it.

[Action80]

The distances between cities is well known and are quite well represented in a flat plane presentation.

Amazing. Now all you have to do is show us the map…

Take your pick.

World map.

Please show us the distance from NY to paris and NY to Moscow.

Then go measure it yourself.  You know, to be sure.

You go measure it.

There is no utility for me to make the trip from NY to Paris or from NY to Moscow.

[Action80]

Which next leads to the follow up,"Why of course! How does this concern the shape of the earth?"

So because an argument leads somewhere you don't like, you won't follow it?  Who is presupposing here?

It's a rather direct question. Can you answer it?

I've answered it many times. It shows that if you can plot the distances between cities on a sphere, then the surface can not be a plane because the topological surfaces are incompatible. The same works in reverse, if the Earth is flat then a globe map can't show the distances between all cities correctly.

Actually, no you have not until just now.

You presuppose there is such a thing as a GLOBE map.

There isn't.

Thanks for discussing.

Try it on a sphere and you will find that they fit.

This is what wrapping a sphere demonstrates. That if you can fit a set of points onto a sphere, it's because they represent a sphere. They simply can't have those distances and directions on anything but a sphere. It explains why you have so much trouble making a flat map of the earth that works.

Your argument fails. Every map I use to navigate is flat in presentation and works just fine.

I use a globe map for navigation and it works just fine.  It works better than any flat map I have seen because it shows the entire planet to scale with no distortions. There is no flat map of the entire earth where you can measure distances with a ruler anywhere without severe distortions.  If there is, please link it.

^This is quite funny.

Someone believes that because a funhouse mirror gag can be simulated on smartphone and applied to an app, resulting in a fat picture or a skinny picture, neither of which will be ultimately the view chosen to rely upon (that view chosen would be a flat x-y coordinate based system by the way) it somehow proves a globe.

Truly remarkable!

[Lord Dave]

The distances between cities is well known and are quite well represented in a flat plane presentation.

Amazing. Now all you have to do is show us the map…

Take your pick.

World map.

Please show us the distance from NY to paris and NY to Moscow.

Then go measure it yourself.  You know, to be sure.

You go measure it.

There is no utility for me to make the trip from NY to Paris or from NY to Moscow.

Then you are making an argument against maps and your only evidence is the distorted maps people have made for you.

[Action80]

The distances between cities is well known and are quite well represented in a flat plane presentation.

Amazing. Now all you have to do is show us the map…

Take your pick.

World map.

Please show us the distance from NY to paris and NY to Moscow.

Then go measure it yourself.  You know, to be sure.

You go measure it.

There is no utility for me to make the trip from NY to Paris or from NY to Moscow.

Then you are making an argument against maps and your only evidence is the distorted maps people have made for you.

I am not making an argument against maps.

I am making an argument that a world map has no utility and that I would not utilize a map to make the trip from NY to  Paris or from NY to Moscow.

Maps are highly useful tools.

But even RE adherents claim the world maps in use now are projections of a spherical surface onto a flat surface and there can be no true rendering of accuracy when performing such a task.

If that is indeed the truth, then there is no utility to be had by placing such an image on a flat surface, unless one finds perpetuating a lie or false representation to be utilitarian.

Which of course, as has been clearly proven, there are entities who do find utility in perpetuating lies and false representations on a daily basis, living amongst us to this day.

Unremarkably, they find their way to work in the highest levels of government to perpetuate their criminal deeds through tried and true methods of lying, telling fantastical stories of ghosts and haunted houses, or even open and outright bald faced lies, in order to continue their murder, raping, and pillaging of the world's life, wealth, and resources.

And their sycophantic fan club exercise their fingers endlessly here on a daily basis.

[JSS]

I've answered it many times. It shows that if you can plot the distances between cities on a sphere, then the surface can not be a plane because the topological surfaces are incompatible. The same works in reverse, if the Earth is flat then a globe map can't show the distances between all cities correctly.

Actually, no you have not until just now.

You presuppose there is such a thing as a GLOBE map.

There isn't.

Thanks for discussing.

There is such a thing as a globe map, it's called a globe.  It certainly exists, I am looking at one in my room right now.

I use a globe map for navigation and it works just fine.  It works better than any flat map I have seen because it shows the entire planet to scale with no distortions. There is no flat map of the entire earth where you can measure distances with a ruler anywhere without severe distortions.  If there is, please link it.

^This is quite funny.

Someone believes that because a funhouse mirror gag can be simulated on smartphone and applied to an app, resulting in a fat picture or a skinny picture, neither of which will be ultimately the view chosen to rely upon (that view chosen would be a flat x-y coordinate based system by the way) it somehow proves a globe.

Truly remarkable!

What do funhouses, smartphones or the shape of a screen have to do with using a globe?

I use an actual globe, it's sitting next to my desk right now, not a flat map.  An actual physical sphere on a stand.  When I use that to examine flights around the world I have taken, distances and directions I have driven across countries, it all matches perfectly.  I can measure distances between cities anywhere on the globe and they match the known values, which even you admit we know very well.

[JSS]

Your example of "I can make a flat map of my grocery store so the earth is flat" shows that you didn't really grasp this. Saying that it demonstrates nothing in support of the earth being a sphere shows that you still may not fully understand.

Take the known distances between cities and try and fit them onto a flat map, you can't.

Nonsense. The distances between cities is well known and are quite well represented in a flat plane presentation.

Please provide your source for this claim.  Which flat map shows the correct distances between cities on all 7 continents?  Please link to it.

It's a rather direct question. Can you answer it?

I noticed you completely ignored this question in my previous post.  I am very interested in the flat map you claim to have that shows the correct distances between cities.

It should be simple for you to link this map that you claim is quite well represented.  If you can't provide it, please explain why?

[Action80]

I've answered it many times. It shows that if you can plot the distances between cities on a sphere, then the surface can not be a plane because the topological surfaces are incompatible. The same works in reverse, if the Earth is flat then a globe map can't show the distances between all cities correctly.

Actually, no you have not until just now.

You presuppose there is such a thing as a GLOBE map.

There isn't.

Thanks for discussing.

There is such a thing as a globe map, it's called a globe.  It certainly exists, I am looking at one in my room right now.

I use a globe map for navigation and it works just fine.  It works better than any flat map I have seen because it shows the entire planet to scale with no distortions. There is no flat map of the entire earth where you can measure distances with a ruler anywhere without severe distortions.  If there is, please link it.

^This is quite funny.

Someone believes that because a funhouse mirror gag can be simulated on smartphone and applied to an app, resulting in a fat picture or a skinny picture, neither of which will be ultimately the view chosen to rely upon (that view chosen would be a flat x-y coordinate based system by the way) it somehow proves a globe.

Truly remarkable!

What do funhouses, smartphones or the shape of a screen have to do with using a globe?

I use an actual globe, it's sitting next to my desk right now, not a flat map.  An actual physical sphere on a stand.  When I use that to examine flights around the world I have taken, distances and directions I have driven across countries, it all matches perfectly.  I can measure distances between cities anywhere on the globe and they match the known values, which even you admit we know very well.

So, what you were told matches what you can see in the wee corner of your damp hovel.

At times, you seem blessed to have had the good fortune, as described by you, to exit said abode, TRUSTY GLOBE under one arm, pinned tightly against thy body (you dare not lose it after all, your very life could depend on its life saving, directional powers!), meager lunch sack grasped firmly betwixt thumb and three remaining fingertips of the opposite hand, off to work, navigating your way through the various glens and flowered meadows, double checking the steps using aforementioned TRUSTY GLOBE, and stopped only by the occasional ogre at a stone bridge, demanding the toll.

Again, what does this have to do with the shape of the earth?

Answer - Nothing.

The flight time could be stated as having been x hours.

The true flight speed could be stated as having been y mph.

Resulting in a set outcome, proven by the math!

Therefore, the distance traveled MUST have been such and such!

Yeah, but that doesn't mean the flight took place over a globe.

[Action80]

I noticed you completely ignored this question in my previous post.  I am very interested in the flat map you claim to have that shows the correct distances between cities.

It should be simple for you to link this map that you claim is quite well represented.  If you can't provide it, please explain why?

My flat map shows the distance from St. Louis, MO to Dallas, TX to be 630 miles.

Roughly correct.

[JSS]

I noticed you completely ignored this question in my previous post.  I am very interested in the flat map you claim to have that shows the correct distances between cities.

It should be simple for you to link this map that you claim is quite well represented.  If you can't provide it, please explain why?

My flat map shows the distance from St. Louis, MO to Dallas, TX to be 630 miles.

Roughly correct.

You have been asked half a dozen times to show your flat map, and have deflected or made excuses or flat out ignored each one. 

This is another example pertaining to the OPs question.  You can't expect to change anyone mind if you claim to have a perfectly functioning map, but repeatedly refuse to show it to anyone. 

I'll ask again, can you link to the map of the entire world you just used to measure that distance?  Why can't we see it?  Is it because it's only "roughly correct" and not actually accurate?

[Action80]

I noticed you completely ignored this question in my previous post.  I am very interested in the flat map you claim to have that shows the correct distances between cities.

It should be simple for you to link this map that you claim is quite well represented.  If you can't provide it, please explain why?

My flat map shows the distance from St. Louis, MO to Dallas, TX to be 630 miles.

Roughly correct.

You have been asked half a dozen times to show your flat map, and have deflected or made excuses or flat out ignored each one. 

This is another example pertaining to the OPs question.  You can't expect to change anyone mind if you claim to have a perfectly functioning map, but repeatedly refuse to show it to anyone. 

I'll ask again, can you link to the map of the entire world you just used to measure that distance?  Why can't we see it?  Is it because it's only "roughly correct" and not actually accurate?

Why would I utilize a complete world map to show the distance from Dallas to St. Louis.

Especially when you, the RE Adherent claim that such renderings are incapable of accuracy?

You claim they are inaccurate because the earth is a sphere.

That is sheer hilarity!

When are you going to stop playing games and get serious about the topic?

When will l you realize they are inaccurate because they are purposefully rendered that way due to the math involved and not the reality of the shape?

Numbers, matching a desired outcome when given certain parameters of operation, can always be provided.

That doesn't mean they truly exist as such.

[JSS]

What do funhouses, smartphones or the shape of a screen have to do with using a globe?

I use an actual globe, it's sitting next to my desk right now, not a flat map.  An actual physical sphere on a stand.  When I use that to examine flights around the world I have taken, distances and directions I have driven across countries, it all matches perfectly.  I can measure distances between cities anywhere on the globe and they match the known values, which even you admit we know very well.

So, what you were told matches what you can see in the wee corner of your damp hovel.

Personal insults are not helpful.

At times, you seem blessed to have had the good fortune, as described by you, to exit said abode, TRUSTY GLOBE under one arm, pinned tightly against thy body (you dare not lose it after all, your very life could depend on its life saving, directional powers!), meager lunch sack grasped firmly betwixt thumb and three remaining fingertips of the opposite hand, off to work, navigating your way through the various glens and flowered meadows, stopped only by the occasional ogre at a stone bridge, demanding the toll.

Also not helpful.

Again, what does this have to do with the shape of the earth?

Answer - Nothing.

The flight time could be stated as having been x hours.

The true flight speed could be stated as having been y mph.

Resulting in a set outcome, proven by the math!

Therefore, the distance traveled MUST have been such and such!

Yeah, but that doesn't mean the flight took place over a globe.

I have driven thousands of miles and my cars odometer matches what my GPS tells me.  I have personally verified the width of entire continents by driving them myself.

I have flown to multiple continents, I have measured the airspeed with both a GPS and landmarks.

So yes, the distance I traveled does indeed match such and such.

The distances match what a globe map and math tells me, so that tells me the Earth is actually a globe.  If you try and plot just the places I have personally visited and verified the distances of, they will not fit on a flat earth map.

What travels and observations have you made that contradict known distances on a globe map?

[Lord Dave]

The distances between cities is well known and are quite well represented in a flat plane presentation.

Amazing. Now all you have to do is show us the map…

Take your pick.

World map.

Please show us the distance from NY to paris and NY to Moscow.

Then go measure it yourself.  You know, to be sure.

You go measure it.

There is no utility for me to make the trip from NY to Paris or from NY to Moscow.

Then you are making an argument against maps and your only evidence is the distorted maps people have made for you.

I am not making an argument against maps.

I am making an argument that a world map has no utility and that I would not utilize a map to make the trip from NY to  Paris or from NY to Moscow.

Maps are highly useful tools.

But even RE adherents claim the world maps in use now are projections of a spherical surface onto a flat surface and there can be no true rendering of accuracy when performing such a task.

If that is indeed the truth, then there is no utility to be had by placing such an image on a flat surface, unless one finds perpetuating a lie or false representation to be utilitarian.

Which of course, as has been clearly proven, there are entities who do find utility in perpetuating lies and false representations on a daily basis, living amongst us to this day.

Unremarkably, they find their way to work in the highest levels of government to perpetuate their criminal deeds through tried and true methods of lying, telling fantastical stories of ghosts and haunted houses, or even open and outright bald faced lies, in order to continue their murder, raping, and pillaging of the world's life, wealth, and resources.

And their sycophantic fan club exercise their fingers endlessly here on a daily basis.

Its all about scale.
If you used a flat map to fly between New York and Paris... You'll get lost as the distances won't be accurate.  Not on a non-distorted map anyway.  You'll definitely end up in France but not Paris.

Assuming, of course, that you fly and use the map as a way to angle yourself for flight.

A map of your city will be distorted too.  But the distortion will be in the micrometers or less level, so nothing you'd notice.

You can actually prove this by taking a normal world map.
Measure a line between two points horizontally in the upper area.
Then do it again in the lower area.
Then check real distances.

The two lines (which should be the same length on the map) will not be the sam real world length.

[JSS]

I noticed you completely ignored this question in my previous post.  I am very interested in the flat map you claim to have that shows the correct distances between cities.

It should be simple for you to link this map that you claim is quite well represented.  If you can't provide it, please explain why?

My flat map shows the distance from St. Louis, MO to Dallas, TX to be 630 miles.

Roughly correct.

You have been asked half a dozen times to show your flat map, and have deflected or made excuses or flat out ignored each one. 

This is another example pertaining to the OPs question.  You can't expect to change anyone mind if you claim to have a perfectly functioning map, but repeatedly refuse to show it to anyone. 

I'll ask again, can you link to the map of the entire world you just used to measure that distance?  Why can't we see it?  Is it because it's only "roughly correct" and not actually accurate?

Why would I utilize a complete world map to show the distance from Dallas to St. Louis.

Especially when you, the RE Adherent claim that such renderings are incapable of accuracy?

That is sheer hilarity!

When are you going to stop playing games and get serious about the topic?

You claimed "The distances between cities is well known and are quite well represented in a flat plane presentation."

Do you have a flat map of the world with well represented city distances, or not?  It's a simple question. 

If you do have a flat map of the Earth, why won't you show anyone?

[Action80]

What do funhouses, smartphones or the shape of a screen have to do with using a globe?

I use an actual globe, it's sitting next to my desk right now, not a flat map.  An actual physical sphere on a stand.  When I use that to examine flights around the world I have taken, distances and directions I have driven across countries, it all matches perfectly.  I can measure distances between cities anywhere on the globe and they match the known values, which even you admit we know very well.

So, what you were told matches what you can see in the wee corner of your damp hovel.

Personal insults are not helpful.

I like a damp abode, personally.

So, not an insult.

At times, you seem blessed to have had the good fortune, as described by you, to exit said abode, TRUSTY GLOBE under one arm, pinned tightly against thy body (you dare not lose it after all, your very life could depend on its life saving, directional powers!), meager lunch sack grasped firmly betwixt thumb and three remaining fingertips of the opposite hand, off to work, navigating your way through the various glens and flowered meadows, stopped only by the occasional ogre at a stone bridge, demanding the toll.

Also not helpful.

Wait...

you don't use a globe to navigate?

Again, what does this have to do with the shape of the earth?

Answer - Nothing.

The flight time could be stated as having been x hours.

The true flight speed could be stated as having been y mph.

Resulting in a set outcome, proven by the math!

Therefore, the distance traveled MUST have been such and such!

Yeah, but that doesn't mean the flight took place over a globe.

I have driven thousands of miles and my cars odometer matches what my GPS tells me.  I have personally verified the width of entire continents by driving them myself.

I have flown to multiple continents, I have measured the airspeed with both a GPS and landmarks.

So yes, the distance I traveled does indeed match such and such.

The distances match what a globe map and math tells me, so that tells me the Earth is actually a globe.  If you try and plot just the places I have personally visited and verified the distances of, they will not fit on a flat earth map.

What travels and observations have you made that contradict known distances on a globe map?

Blah, blah, blah...

I have answered this question over and over and over again.

It is here in writing for anyone to see.

"I have personally done this or personally done that! Why... How dare you!"

I don't care if you were behind the wheel, I don't care if you were behind the joystick, I don't care if you were manning the conn...

The only thing that traveling a certain speed in a certain time renders is distance.

Distances have nothing to do with the shape of the earth.

Get that through your head.

I'm done with you.

Who's next?

[Pete Svarrior]

A reminder to all involved that you're not currently in AR.

[Action80]

I noticed you completely ignored this question in my previous post.  I am very interested in the flat map you claim to have that shows the correct distances between cities.

It should be simple for you to link this map that you claim is quite well represented.  If you can't provide it, please explain why?

My flat map shows the distance from St. Louis, MO to Dallas, TX to be 630 miles.

Roughly correct.

You have been asked half a dozen times to show your flat map, and have deflected or made excuses or flat out ignored each one. 

This is another example pertaining to the OPs question.  You can't expect to change anyone mind if you claim to have a perfectly functioning map, but repeatedly refuse to show it to anyone. 

I'll ask again, can you link to the map of the entire world you just used to measure that distance?  Why can't we see it?  Is it because it's only "roughly correct" and not actually accurate?

Why would I utilize a complete world map to show the distance from Dallas to St. Louis.

Especially when you, the RE Adherent claim that such renderings are incapable of accuracy?

That is sheer hilarity!

When are you going to stop playing games and get serious about the topic?

You claimed "The distances between cities is well known and are quite well represented in a flat plane presentation."

Do you have a flat map of the world with well represented city distances, or not?  It's a simple question. 

If you do have a flat map of the Earth, why won't you show anyone?

Nobody, not even RE adherents can present a flat map of the earth existing as they claim.

What you fail to realize is the following: Making the claim that the world is a sphere of such and such a size and that is why there are distortions appearing on the map of the world, is not a statement of truth relating to the matter of WHY a map (or now even maps) of the world exists.

It is a factual statement to be sure, and mathematically a true statement, but at its essence, does not strike at the core as to why these cartoonish renditions exist.