Offline Action80

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Re: Trans athletes
« Reply #300 on: July 13, 2022, 11:41:44 AM »
If placing 47th in the Nascar Cup and 108th in the Nascar Xfinity series is "competing", then sure. It's just not winning or cometing equally with the best in the sport. The best woman racer in the world couldn't compete on an equal or superior basis with the best male racer, even in the physically athletic sport of auto racing.

Among her achievements in that link she participated in hundreds of races and won a series race once. Such amazing.

I see, so for you, for a woman to be considered to have competed equally in some professional sport she has to win 100% of the contests she engaged in?

Talk about imbecilic...
She isn't competing, she is participating.

Not a problem.
It's so hard to have faith in humanity when they do shit like this.

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Offline Rama Set

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Re: Trans athletes
« Reply #301 on: July 13, 2022, 11:55:06 AM »

If placing 47th in the Nascar Cup and 108th in the Nascar Xfinity series is "competing", then sure. It's just not winning or cometing equally with the best in the sport. The best woman racer in the world couldn't compete on an equal or superior basis with the best male racer, even in the physically athletic sport of auto racing.

Among her achievements in that link she participated in hundreds of races and won a series race once. Such amazing.

Which is more than 99.99% of the world can say, and probably 99% of people who tried professional auto racing. It’s very easy to shit on others accomplishments when you have no idea how difficult it is.

She isn't competing, she is participating.

Not a problem.

Coming in third in the Indy 500 is extremely competitive; it was better than 30 of the drivers who qualified.
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Offline Action80

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Re: Trans athletes
« Reply #302 on: July 13, 2022, 12:12:36 PM »
If placing 47th in the Nascar Cup and 108th in the Nascar Xfinity series is "competing", then sure. It's just not winning or cometing equally with the best in the sport. The best woman racer in the world couldn't compete on an equal or superior basis with the best male racer, even in the physically athletic sport of auto racing.

Among her achievements in that link she participated in hundreds of races and won a series race once. Such amazing.

Which is more than 99.99% of the world can say, and probably 99% of people who tried professional auto racing. It’s very easy to shit on others accomplishments when you have no idea how difficult it is.
No question that many men, like me, and you, would not be able to do it.

But there are far more women who cannot do it.

Fact remains, it is not competing equally.

Women can never compete equally with men in any professional sport, period.

Most men, like me, could never compete equally in a professional-level sport. Neither could you.

But most middle-school or high-school amateur boys totally dominate women in most any team or individual sport.


Coming in third in the Indy 500 is extremely competitive; it was better than 30 of the drivers who qualified.
Finishing 3rd in one race is not "extremely competitive."
It's so hard to have faith in humanity when they do shit like this.

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Online Rushy

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Re: Trans athletes
« Reply #303 on: July 13, 2022, 01:46:47 PM »
"Females need their own league because they're not as good as males at things!" - Bigots

A female human can do anything a male human can do. To say otherwise is bigotry. Pure and simple. Full stop.

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Offline Rama Set

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Re: Trans athletes
« Reply #304 on: July 13, 2022, 02:20:41 PM »
"Females need their own league because they're not as good as males at things!" - Bigots

I don’t think that’s why female leagues have cropped up. It’s also not bigotry to acknowledge that men have biological advantages in most athletics.

Quote
A female human can do anything a male human can do. To say otherwise is bigotry. Pure and simple. Full stop.

No one said women can’t do anything a man can and as mentioned most professional leagues don’t have a sex requirement.
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Offline Rama Set

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Re: Trans athletes
« Reply #305 on: July 13, 2022, 02:22:53 PM »
Finishing 3rd in one race is not "extremely competitive."

Considering most professionals never get a podium finish in a top tier race, it actually is.
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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Trans athletes
« Reply #306 on: July 13, 2022, 02:42:56 PM »
If placing 47th in the Nascar Cup and 108th in the Nascar Xfinity series is "competing", then sure. It's just not winning or cometing equally with the best in the sport. The best woman racer in the world couldn't compete on an equal or superior basis with the best male racer, even in the physically athletic sport of auto racing.

Among her achievements in that link she participated in hundreds of races and won a series race once. Such amazing.

I see, so for you, for a woman to be considered to have competed equally in some professional sport she has to win 100% of the contests she engaged in?

Talk about imbecilic...

Auto racing takes a lot of hand-eye coordination. Apparently women have a hard time keeping up, despite their weight advantage. Even in the sport of figure skating, men dominate.

List of highest scores in figure skating -

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_highest_scores_in_figure_skating



« Last Edit: July 13, 2022, 02:47:56 PM by Tom Bishop »

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Offline Rama Set

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Re: Trans athletes
« Reply #307 on: July 13, 2022, 02:53:46 PM »
If placing 47th in the Nascar Cup and 108th in the Nascar Xfinity series is "competing", then sure. It's just not winning or cometing equally with the best in the sport. The best woman racer in the world couldn't compete on an equal or superior basis with the best male racer, even in the physically athletic sport of auto racing.

Among her achievements in that link she participated in hundreds of races and won a series race once. Such amazing.

I see, so for you, for a woman to be considered to have competed equally in some professional sport she has to win 100% of the contests she engaged in?

Talk about imbecilic...

Auto racing takes a lot of hand-eye coordination. Apparently women have a hard time keeping up, despite their weight advantage. Even in the sport of figure skating, men dominate.

List of highest scores in figure skating -

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_highest_scores_in_figure_skating



Nice tangent. It looks like you are conceding the point. No one here is saying women are the absolute equals of men in athletics. But there are some cases where the edge is much smaller. It’s really simple and not controversial.
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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Trans athletes
« Reply #308 on: July 13, 2022, 03:02:25 PM »
Quote from: Rama Set
No one here is saying women are the absolute equals of men in athletics.

Correct. They are not equals. This is why biological males should not compete in women's sports.

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Offline Rama Set

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Re: Trans athletes
« Reply #309 on: July 13, 2022, 03:14:23 PM »
Quote from: Rama Set
No one here is saying women are the absolute equals of men in athletics.

Correct. They are not equals. This is why biological males should not compete in women's sports.

I knew this idiotic attempt at a gotcha was coming. As has been pointed out, that is not an apples to apples comparison because as a biological male transitions their athletic performance changes. The swimmer who was the genesis of this thread saw their performance decline dramatically as they underwent horomone therapy to the point where many cis-women were outperforming them.

Now, in good faith, if you wish to say there is more to learn about this and that there is a good chance that some shift in competitive qualification should exclude trans woman who have undergone puberty, or something similar, that’s totally reasonable. But let’s also then agree that many of the anti-trans laws that have insane requirements like genital checks on underage children are way out of line.
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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Trans athletes
« Reply #310 on: July 13, 2022, 03:43:25 PM »
Quote from: Rama Set
No one here is saying women are the absolute equals of men in athletics.

Correct. They are not equals. This is why biological males should not compete in women's sports.

I knew this idiotic attempt at a gotcha was coming. As has been pointed out, that is not an apples to apples comparison because as a biological male transitions their athletic performance changes. The swimmer who was the genesis of this thread saw their performance decline dramatically as they underwent horomone therapy to the point where many cis-women were outperforming them.

Yes, as the biological male was transitioning they experienced a decrease in performance. After transitioning their performance ability dominated the women again. It seems pretty clear that the decrease in performance was temporary in your example.

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Offline Rama Set

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Re: Trans athletes
« Reply #311 on: July 13, 2022, 03:47:40 PM »
Quote from: Rama Set
No one here is saying women are the absolute equals of men in athletics.

Correct. They are not equals. This is why biological males should not compete in women's sports.

I knew this idiotic attempt at a gotcha was coming. As has been pointed out, that is not an apples to apples comparison because as a biological male transitions their athletic performance changes. The swimmer who was the genesis of this thread saw their performance decline dramatically as they underwent horomone therapy to the point where many cis-women were outperforming them.

Yes, as the biological male was transitioning they experienced a decrease in performance. After transitioning their performance ability dominated the women again. It seems pretty clear that the decrease in performance was temporary in your example.

Incorrect. They won one of the events they competed in at nationals. Not all of them. They finished as low as eighth in some as well. That’s as low as you can finish in the final and that is a man who went through puberty. Your definition of domination is very liberal.

Anyway, you again clearly aren’t interested in any sort of good faith conversation. Begone back under the bridge!
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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Trans athletes
« Reply #312 on: July 13, 2022, 04:03:24 PM »
Quote
Incorrect. They won one of the events they competed in at nationals. Not all of them. They finished as low as eighth in some as well. That’s as low as you can finish in the final and that is a man who went through puberty. Your definition of domination is very liberal.

Yeah, that person was Lia Thompson and later started winning again and was center in this controversy.

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Offline Rama Set

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Re: Trans athletes
« Reply #313 on: July 13, 2022, 04:21:20 PM »
Quote
Incorrect. They won one of the events they competed in at nationals. Not all of them. They finished as low as eighth in some as well. That’s as low as you can finish in the final and that is a man who went through puberty. Your definition of domination is very liberal.

Yeah, that person was Lia Thompson and later started winning again and was center in this controversy.

This year, she won one NCAA event by 1.75 seconds, a win but an unremarkable win and definitely not dominant. She was almost ten seconds off the record of the most dominant swimmer at the meet, Kate Douglass, who set 18 records at the same meet. Kate Douglass was dominant, Lia Thomas was competitive. Clearly your issue isn’t with unbalanced performance.

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Offline Action80

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Re: Trans athletes
« Reply #314 on: July 13, 2022, 04:34:55 PM »
"Females need their own league because they're not as good as males at things!" - Bigots

A female human can do anything a male human can do. To say otherwise is bigotry. Pure and simple. Full stop.
^ITT, Rushy claims a female human can run a 100-meter dash in 9.67 seconds.
It's so hard to have faith in humanity when they do shit like this.

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Offline stack

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Re: Trans athletes
« Reply #315 on: July 13, 2022, 05:02:31 PM »
If placing 47th in the Nascar Cup and 108th in the Nascar Xfinity series is "competing", then sure. It's just not winning or cometing equally with the best in the sport. The best woman racer in the world couldn't compete on an equal or superior basis with the best male racer, even in the physically athletic sport of auto racing.

Among her achievements in that link she participated in hundreds of races and won a series race once. Such amazing.

I see, so for you, for a woman to be considered to have competed equally in some professional sport she has to win 100% of the contests she engaged in?

Talk about imbecilic...

Auto racing takes a lot of hand-eye coordination. Apparently women have a hard time keeping up, despite their weight advantage. Even in the sport of figure skating, men dominate.

List of highest scores in figure skating -

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_highest_scores_in_figure_skating





I'm not saying women can equally compete in all pro sports by any means. Just that in some (few), women can and do compete equally.

But according to your criteria for a woman competing as an equal and men are always dominating, looks like Lea Thomas falls into your 'women not being equal' category:

3/16/22 - Graham Chatoor broke his own program record in the men's 500-yard freestyle...Chatoor's time of 4:24.00 in the 500 free finals was 0.34 seconds faster than the previous program record he set during the 2019-20 season.

2/17/22 - Thomas, a transgender woman, produced a winning time of 4:37.32 (in the same event)

A full 13 seconds slower.

In 2017, Katie Ledecky, the record holder in this event, finished her 500-yard freestyle with a time of 4:24.06, almost 10 seconds faster than Thomas. In fact, Thomas wouldn’t have just lost in 2017, she would have only placed first in one out of the last 10 seasons. And, according to USA Swimming, she finished as the 15th fastest 500 swimmer in the meet’s history.

Not only did she underswim swimmers from past years, she also didn’t outswim a number of competitors at the championship meet. During the championship meet, 27 records were broken, and Lia Thomas didn’t break any of them. In addition to not breaking any records, she also didn’t place first in her other events, finishing fifth in her 200-yard freestyle and eighth in her 100-yard freestyle.


According to you, she didn't post any records, got bested in a bunch of races, 13 seconds slower than a man, therefore, as a woman, she is unequally competing at a men's level, and even at a woman's level in many cases.

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Online Rushy

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Re: Trans athletes
« Reply #316 on: July 13, 2022, 07:05:05 PM »
I don’t think that’s why female leagues have cropped up. It’s also not bigotry to acknowledge that men have biological advantages in most athletics.

At first you say "female" then you mention "men". Stop confusing gender and sex. And yes, it's absolutely bigotry to say men have some biological advantage. It's literally in the definition: "one who is prejudiced against or antagonistic toward a person or people on the basis of their membership of a particular group."

Judging based on gender is prejudice. (just another reason gender should not exist) Men are not superior in any way (biological or otherwise) to women. Full stop.

Quote
A female human can do anything a male human can do. To say otherwise is bigotry. Pure and simple. Full stop.

No one said women can’t do anything a man can and as mentioned most professional leagues don’t have a sex requirement.

No one mentioned men and women. Please stop bringing them up. Man is not synonymous with male. Woman is not synonymous with female.

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Offline Rama Set

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Re: Trans athletes
« Reply #317 on: July 13, 2022, 08:40:52 PM »
I don’t think that’s why female leagues have cropped up. It’s also not bigotry to acknowledge that men have biological advantages in most athletics.

At first you say "female" then you mention "men". Stop confusing gender and sex. And yes, it's absolutely bigotry to say men have some biological advantage. It's literally in the definition: "one who is prejudiced against or antagonistic toward a person or people on the basis of their membership of a particular group."

But it’s not prejudice or antagonism and it’s not on the basis of their membership. It’s on the basis of the data surrounding athletic performance.

Quote
Judging based on gender is prejudice. (just another reason gender should not exist) Men are not superior in any way (biological or otherwise) to women. Full stop.

Oh shit. I forgot you were just trolling. Laters!
Th*rk is the worst person on this website.