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Offline Lord Dave

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Re: President Joe Biden
« Reply #1060 on: September 01, 2022, 07:55:00 PM »
Joe is an idiot with all the Dems..

Grid can't and will never handle electric vehicles.

https://finance.yahoo.com/video/california-advises-slower-ev-charging-175627840.html

Why never?
If you are going to DebOOonK an expert then you have to at least provide a source with credentials of equal or greater relevance. Even then, it merely shows that some experts disagree with each other.

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Offline markjo

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Re: President Joe Biden
« Reply #1061 on: September 01, 2022, 08:43:31 PM »
Joe is an idiot with all the Dems..

Grid can't and will never handle electric vehicles.

https://finance.yahoo.com/video/california-advises-slower-ev-charging-175627840.html

Perhaps it will encourage people to drive less.
Or invest in upgrading the grid.
Abandon hope all ye who press enter here.

Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.

Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge. -- Charles Darwin

If you can't demonstrate it, then you shouldn't believe it.

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Offline crutonius

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Re: President Joe Biden
« Reply #1062 on: September 02, 2022, 12:03:35 AM »
Joe is an idiot with all the Dems..

Grid can't and will never handle electric vehicles.

https://finance.yahoo.com/video/california-advises-slower-ev-charging-175627840.html

These people are just being alarmist.  California is recommending cutting back on all electrical use to avoid rolling blackouts.  EVs don't use anywhere near enough electricity to stress the grid under normal circumstances.


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Offline J-Man

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Re: President Joe Biden
« Reply #1063 on: September 02, 2022, 02:52:20 AM »
Joe is an idiot with all the Dems..

Grid can't and will never handle electric vehicles.

https://finance.yahoo.com/video/california-advises-slower-ev-charging-175627840.html

These people are just being alarmist.  California is recommending cutting back on all electrical use to avoid rolling blackouts.  EVs don't use anywhere near enough electricity to stress the grid under normal circumstances.

I charged two teslas on a 50 amp rv plug on my service pole. $120....Thats stress. Solar also doesn't do well at night :)
What kind of person would devote endless hours posting scientific facts trying to correct the few retards who believe in the FE? I slay shitty little demons.

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Offline Lord Dave

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Re: President Joe Biden
« Reply #1064 on: September 02, 2022, 05:22:32 AM »
Joe is an idiot with all the Dems..

Grid can't and will never handle electric vehicles.

https://finance.yahoo.com/video/california-advises-slower-ev-charging-175627840.html

These people are just being alarmist.  California is recommending cutting back on all electrical use to avoid rolling blackouts.  EVs don't use anywhere near enough electricity to stress the grid under normal circumstances.

I charged two teslas on a 50 amp rv plug on my service pole. $120....Thats stress. Solar also doesn't do well at night :)

Nah, thats your sorry asses overcharging.

Tho electricity prices are fairly high.


But curious on the math...
Lets assume model S, so 100kwh.  Highest they have.

So 200 kwh (for both)
Means $60 per tesla.
$60/100 kwh
So $0.60/kwh
LA paid about $.025/kwh in July 2022.

So you're charging people 3x the power cost.
You bastard.

If you are going to DebOOonK an expert then you have to at least provide a source with credentials of equal or greater relevance. Even then, it merely shows that some experts disagree with each other.

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Offline crutonius

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Re: President Joe Biden
« Reply #1065 on: September 02, 2022, 05:37:37 AM »
Joe is an idiot with all the Dems..

Grid can't and will never handle electric vehicles.

https://finance.yahoo.com/video/california-advises-slower-ev-charging-175627840.html

These people are just being alarmist.  California is recommending cutting back on all electrical use to avoid rolling blackouts.  EVs don't use anywhere near enough electricity to stress the grid under normal circumstances.

I charged two teslas on a 50 amp rv plug on my service pole. $120....Thats stress. Solar also doesn't do well at night :)

I call BS.  I own a Telsa it and it just doesn't take anywhere near that much electricity.

Also solar has nothing to do with this.

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Offline Rama Set

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Re: President Joe Biden
« Reply #1066 on: September 02, 2022, 01:16:24 PM »
I charged a Tesla from 20% to full for $15 in the spring.
Th*rk is the worst person on this website.

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Offline J-Man

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Re: President Joe Biden
« Reply #1067 on: September 02, 2022, 07:38:07 PM »
Joe is an idiot with all the Dems..

Grid can't and will never handle electric vehicles.

https://finance.yahoo.com/video/california-advises-slower-ev-charging-175627840.html

These people are just being alarmist.  California is recommending cutting back on all electrical use to avoid rolling blackouts.  EVs don't use anywhere near enough electricity to stress the grid under normal circumstances.

I charged two teslas on a 50 amp rv plug on my service pole. $120....Thats stress. Solar also doesn't do well at night :)

Nah, thats your sorry asses overcharging.

Tho electricity prices are fairly high.


But curious on the math...
Lets assume model S, so 100kwh.  Highest they have.

So 200 kwh (for both)
Means $60 per tesla.
$60/100 kwh
So $0.60/kwh
LA paid about $.025/kwh in July 2022.

So you're charging people 3x the power cost.
You bastard.

I went back and looked at bill. AZ 94 kwh (conservative) for both during peak hours. Also a demand charge over the top because peak and high 50 amp demand. Teslas suck....

solar sucks...it's not cost effective even over the long haul. I have a buddy who is an expert at building these facilities and has maybe 10 under his belt. 50-200 megs
« Last Edit: September 02, 2022, 07:39:52 PM by J-Man »
What kind of person would devote endless hours posting scientific facts trying to correct the few retards who believe in the FE? I slay shitty little demons.

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Offline Rushy

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Re: President Joe Biden
« Reply #1068 on: September 02, 2022, 08:20:19 PM »
EVs don't use anywhere near enough electricity to stress the grid under normal circumstances.

Average one-way commute in the US is 39 miles (one-way).

Quote
The electric car with the best kWh per mile is the 2020 Tesla Model 3, with 24 kWh/100 mi (or 0.24kWh per mile)

That's a total of ~19 kWh per work day per EV on average.

Quote
In 2020, the average annual electricity consumption for a U.S. residential utility customer was 10,715 kilowatthours (kWh), an average of about 893 kWh per month.

That's about 30 kWh per day for the 'average' household.

Putting all of this together, every time someone buys an EV to drive, they're effectively adding 2/3 of a household load to the grid. If one million people in California buy an EV, that's the same thing as building 700,000 new homes. There's a very obvious reason why California now sees routine rolling blackouts and imports more electricity than any other state in the nation.

EVs use a lot of power. There's no low-energy way to sling a metal box down an interstate at 70 mph.
« Last Edit: September 02, 2022, 08:22:46 PM by Rushy »

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Offline crutonius

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Re: President Joe Biden
« Reply #1069 on: September 02, 2022, 10:49:01 PM »
I'm seeing a variety of sources say the average commute is about 30 miles both ways.

It would be 30% if everyone sold their gas vehicles and went electric overnight.  The change is going to be gradual though as will the improvements to the grid to handle it.

My point being that the grid buckling under the weight of EVs is not something to be all that worried about.

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Offline stack

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Re: President Joe Biden
« Reply #1070 on: September 03, 2022, 01:32:44 AM »
There's a very obvious reason why California now sees routine rolling blackouts and imports more electricity than any other state in the nation.

California hasn't had rolling blackouts due to surge use in forever. Like back in the early naughts. There were multiple factors; deregulation in the late 90's, critical infrastructure updates weren't done due to cost, Pac Northwest hydro imports were pulled back and so on. Complicated as always. So there's been no "routine" in a long time. But I do remember them well. They sucked.

California does have blackouts every now and again. But they are localized to the areas where something went wrong. Not like the old rolling blackouts that hit the whole State. Most today are due to actual physical interruptions in service from things like wildfires, lines cut, etc. Not routine rolling, semi-planned or planned, blackouts, aka, 'brownouts'.

As far as CA importing the most, true, and by a lot:



But it's complicated when you look at the net import v export. CA doesn't make the top 5. I mean, what's going on with Mass & Maryland...


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Offline Rushy

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Re: President Joe Biden
« Reply #1071 on: September 03, 2022, 02:12:42 AM »
My point being that the grid buckling under the weight of EVs is not something to be all that worried about.

It's almost like you just made this up.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2021/10/13/electric-vehicles-grid-upgrade/

The only places saying the grid will be fine are, coincidentally, EV blogs where no one in the room has a degree in power engineering. Every time I watch power engineers talk about the grid at conferences, they look nervous as all hell and say the grid needs massive upgrades, then I hear politicians and environmental morons say "don't worry about it". Who do you think I'm going to believe? It's not coincidence that the same people saying it's "not something to be all that worried about" are the same people who know absolutely nothing about electrical power.

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Offline markjo

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Re: President Joe Biden
« Reply #1072 on: September 03, 2022, 03:39:07 AM »
Then it's probably a good thing that Biden just signed an infrastructure bill allocating $65 billion to upgrade the power grid.
Abandon hope all ye who press enter here.

Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.

Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge. -- Charles Darwin

If you can't demonstrate it, then you shouldn't believe it.

#firePete

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Offline crutonius

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Re: President Joe Biden
« Reply #1073 on: September 03, 2022, 06:33:34 AM »
My point being that the grid buckling under the weight of EVs is not something to be all that worried about.

It's almost like you just made this up.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2021/10/13/electric-vehicles-grid-upgrade/

The only places saying the grid will be fine are, coincidentally, EV blogs where no one in the room has a degree in power engineering. Every time I watch power engineers talk about the grid at conferences, they look nervous as all hell and say the grid needs massive upgrades, then I hear politicians and environmental morons say "don't worry about it". Who do you think I'm going to believe? It's not coincidence that the same people saying it's "not something to be all that worried about" are the same people who know absolutely nothing about electrical power.

My goodness.  You act like the grid is some kind of otherworldly entity that has been gifted to us by aliens and as such as may never touch it or leave it as is.

I assure you this is not the case.  We regularly upgraded it for whatever need arises and I'm sure your power engineer friends will back me up on this, grumble as they might for having to do work.

FYI, I do know something about power.  And when I saw that, I'm being modest.

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Offline Lord Dave

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Re: President Joe Biden
« Reply #1074 on: September 03, 2022, 09:19:07 AM »
My point being that the grid buckling under the weight of EVs is not something to be all that worried about.

It's almost like you just made this up.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2021/10/13/electric-vehicles-grid-upgrade/

The only places saying the grid will be fine are, coincidentally, EV blogs where no one in the room has a degree in power engineering. Every time I watch power engineers talk about the grid at conferences, they look nervous as all hell and say the grid needs massive upgrades, then I hear politicians and environmental morons say "don't worry about it". Who do you think I'm going to believe? It's not coincidence that the same people saying it's "not something to be all that worried about" are the same people who know absolutely nothing about electrical power.

My goodness.  You act like the grid is some kind of otherworldly entity that has been gifted to us by aliens and as such as may never touch it or leave it as is.

I assure you this is not the case.  We regularly upgraded it for whatever need arises and I'm sure your power engineer friends will back me up on this, grumble as they might for having to do work.

FYI, I do know something about power.  And when I saw that, I'm being modest.

Rushy is right tho.
Its a massive undertaking that most electrical companies don't want to do unless they have to.  Not to mention building more power plants and that cost.

America has been dragging its feet on upgrades for decades because its not profitable to do so.  Instead of planning ahead and doing it before its needed.

Having alot of EVs at once is a big power need and will cause issues if the grid isn't ready.
If you are going to DebOOonK an expert then you have to at least provide a source with credentials of equal or greater relevance. Even then, it merely shows that some experts disagree with each other.

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Offline Tumeni

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Re: President Joe Biden
« Reply #1075 on: September 03, 2022, 01:21:32 PM »
Grid can't and will never handle electric vehicles.

Change the focus from the car, then.  Pedestrianise city centres. Introduce cycle paths. Build more railways. Get out of your cars and walk some more.
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Nearly?

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Offline J-Man

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Re: President Joe Biden
« Reply #1076 on: September 05, 2022, 12:46:49 AM »
Biden looks like hes Aldolf or satans child in speech. Blood red evil.  Raids a 16 year olds bedroom and turns it upside down. Barron were sorry these goons exists. 

https://assets.zerohedge.com/s3fs-public/styles/inline_image_mobile/public/inline-images/biden-speech1.jpg?itok=HE6pXONS
« Last Edit: September 05, 2022, 01:24:38 AM by J-Man »
What kind of person would devote endless hours posting scientific facts trying to correct the few retards who believe in the FE? I slay shitty little demons.

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Offline stack

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Re: President Joe Biden
« Reply #1077 on: September 05, 2022, 02:34:33 AM »
Having alot of EVs at once is a big power need and will cause issues if the grid isn't ready.

Key phrase is "all at once".

From a car and driver report (August 2022):

Currently, it's estimated that around 1 percent of the 250 million cars, SUVs, and light-duty trucks on American roads are electric. However, while it's difficult to estimate future sales, an analysis by IHS Markit projects that 25–30 percent of new car sales could be electric by 2030 and then 40–45 percent by 2035. Using the rates for those projections, Reuters estimates that by 2050 more than half of the vehicles on U.S. roads could be EVs.

And utilities are fairly profitable, from Investopedia:

The utilities industry ranks highly in terms of margin metrics. The average net profit margin in the sector was nearly 10% in the first quarter of 2022 and for the trailing 12 months (TTM) was almost 11%.

Looks like the grid will have to expand in line with usage over time, like it's always done successfully (and unsuccessfully). And we need to incrementally get our grid shit together over the next 30 years.

Granted, EV sales are kind of currently rocketing upward, but as it stands today in 2022, at a 1% share of vehicles, I'd say EV's are a net zero burden on the current grid.

As an aside, if anyone really wants to get freaked out by resource burdens/constraints, EV's impact on the grid issues are minuscule in comparison to the biggy: Water. I have a close friend who is the director of a major metro municipal water dept in the US. S/he goes around the country and the world in fact giving talks regarding the system, resources, treatment, conservation, etc. as it's considered one of the best around. To hear him/her talk about the water issues we're facing in the next 25 years, not just globally, but in the US too, sends shivers down your spine.

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Offline Lord Dave

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Re: President Joe Biden
« Reply #1078 on: September 05, 2022, 03:50:07 AM »
Having alot of EVs at once is a big power need and will cause issues if the grid isn't ready.

Key phrase is "all at once".

From a car and driver report (August 2022):

Currently, it's estimated that around 1 percent of the 250 million cars, SUVs, and light-duty trucks on American roads are electric. However, while it's difficult to estimate future sales, an analysis by IHS Markit projects that 25–30 percent of new car sales could be electric by 2030 and then 40–45 percent by 2035. Using the rates for those projections, Reuters estimates that by 2050 more than half of the vehicles on U.S. roads could be EVs.

And utilities are fairly profitable, from Investopedia:

The utilities industry ranks highly in terms of margin metrics. The average net profit margin in the sector was nearly 10% in the first quarter of 2022 and for the trailing 12 months (TTM) was almost 11%.

Looks like the grid will have to expand in line with usage over time, like it's always done successfully (and unsuccessfully). And we need to incrementally get our grid shit together over the next 30 years.

Granted, EV sales are kind of currently rocketing upward, but as it stands today in 2022, at a 1% share of vehicles, I'd say EV's are a net zero burden on the current grid.

As an aside, if anyone really wants to get freaked out by resource burdens/constraints, EV's impact on the grid issues are minuscule in comparison to the biggy: Water. I have a close friend who is the director of a major metro municipal water dept in the US. S/he goes around the country and the world in fact giving talks regarding the system, resources, treatment, conservation, etc. as it's considered one of the best around. To hear him/her talk about the water issues we're facing in the next 25 years, not just globally, but in the US too, sends shivers down your spine.

Yes and thatz the world Biden wants in 30 years.  Which means uograding needed to start 10 years ago.
If you are going to DebOOonK an expert then you have to at least provide a source with credentials of equal or greater relevance. Even then, it merely shows that some experts disagree with each other.

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Offline crutonius

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Re: President Joe Biden
« Reply #1079 on: September 05, 2022, 07:12:48 AM »
My point being that the grid buckling under the weight of EVs is not something to be all that worried about.

It's almost like you just made this up.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2021/10/13/electric-vehicles-grid-upgrade/

The only places saying the grid will be fine are, coincidentally, EV blogs where no one in the room has a degree in power engineering. Every time I watch power engineers talk about the grid at conferences, they look nervous as all hell and say the grid needs massive upgrades, then I hear politicians and environmental morons say "don't worry about it". Who do you think I'm going to believe? It's not coincidence that the same people saying it's "not something to be all that worried about" are the same people who know absolutely nothing about electrical power.

My goodness.  You act like the grid is some kind of otherworldly entity that has been gifted to us by aliens and as such as may never touch it or leave it as is.

I assure you this is not the case.  We regularly upgraded it for whatever need arises and I'm sure your power engineer friends will back me up on this, grumble as they might for having to do work.

FYI, I do know something about power.  And when I saw that, I'm being modest.

Rushy is right tho.
Its a massive undertaking that most electrical companies don't want to do unless they have to.  Not to mention building more power plants and that cost.

America has been dragging its feet on upgrades for decades because its not profitable to do so.  Instead of planning ahead and doing it before its needed.

Having alot of EVs at once is a big power need and will cause issues if the grid isn't ready.

I must disagree with the severity of the undertaking. 

There are about 2.32 million evs in the US.  The average distance they drive is 14263 miles in a year = 33,090,160,000.

At 330 wats per mision that's 10,919,752,800 kwh vs the grid's output of 4.12 trillion kwh. 

So currently EVs overall draw less than a percent of the grid.  Increase the number of EVs to 100% of passenger vehicles and the load would be 5%.

I think some of the confusion might be coming from comparing EV power draws to residential sources.  Residential makes up a relatively minor pie of the power grid.

I admit.  It is 1 in the morning and its easily possible that my numbers are wrong.  Feel free to correct me.