Yaakov ben Avraham

Re: Columbus & a Round (or Flat) Earth.
« Reply #20 on: January 20, 2014, 02:19:28 AM »
Now that article definately puts a different perspective on things. I knew that Columbus was wrong. I didn't know that the Greek fellow was & wasn't as well. I knew he wasn't. Not that he was!


Offline markjo

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Re: Columbus & a Round (or Flat) Earth.
« Reply #21 on: January 20, 2014, 04:10:21 AM »
It seems that history has been revised quite a lot over the years.  Sometimes it's hard to know exactly who knew what way back when.  It can also be difficult to separate fact from folklore.
Abandon hope all ye who press enter here.

Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.

Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge. -- Charles Darwin

If you can't demonstrate it, then you shouldn't believe it.

Re: Columbus & a Round (or Flat) Earth.
« Reply #22 on: April 22, 2014, 10:21:08 AM »
Now, although we have discussed the morals of celebrating Columbus Day, & by extension, the morals of the man himself on the other forum, I am curious about 1 point. Most of us REers (among whom I count myself) know that Columbus didn't prove us right, nor did he care. Most educated Europeans had known the Earth was round since Ancient Greece. But I have heard that some FEers actually claim that Columbus proved the Earth was Flat. On what basis is this claim made? My dissertation is on Columbus, & this data may be helpful. Any thoughts?


Re: Columbus & a Round (or Flat) Earth.
« Reply #23 on: April 23, 2014, 12:21:43 PM »
Original Spanish reference for the previous message:

From America, Christopher Columbus also wrote to the king and the queen of Spain about the simultaneous eclipses:

This that I have said is what I have heard. What I know is that the year 94 I sailed in 24 degrees to the west in 9 hours, and it could not be mistake because there were eclipses: the sun was in Libra and the moon in Ariete.


Esto que yo he dicho es lo que he oído. Lo que yo sé es que el ańo de 94 navegué en 24° al Poniente en término de nueve horas, y no pudo haber yerro porque hubo eclipses: el sol estaba en Libra y la luna en Ariete.

Now, "Columbus" is NOT describing a selenelion (both the Sun and the eclipsed Moon can be observed at the same time in the RE theory): he used the words "hubo eclipses" (were eclipses), there were a solar and a lunar eclipse occurring at the same time.

Re: Columbus & a Round (or Flat) Earth.
« Reply #24 on: April 26, 2014, 08:26:52 AM »
More information on Columbus.

Piri Reis notes:


Piri Re'is had some notes on his charts, and he never speaks of curved waters, or degrees, or latitude.

For instance, a book fell into the hands of the said Colombo, and be found it said in this book that at the end of the Western Sea [Atlantic] that is, on its western side, there were coasts and islands and all kinds of metals and also precious stones. The abovementioned, having studied this book thoroughly, explained these matters one by one to the great of Genoa and said: "Come, give me two ships, let me go and find these places." They said: "O unprofitable man, can an end or a limit be found to the Western Sea? Its vapour is full of darkness." The above-mentioned Colombo saw that no help was forthcoming from the Genoese, he sped forth, went to the Bey of Spain [king], and told his tale in detail. They too answered like the Genoese. In brief Colombo petitioned these people for a long time, finally the Bey of Spain gave him two ships, saw that they were well equipped, and said:

"O Colombo, if it happens as you say, let us make you kapudan [admiral] to that country." Having said which be sent the said Colombo to the Western Sea

The late Gazi Kemal had a Spanish slave. The above-mentioned slave said to Kemal Reis, he had been three times to that land with Colombo. He said: "First we reached the Strait of Gibraltar, then from there straight south and west between the two . . . [illegible]. Having advanced straight four thousand miles, we saw an island facing us, but gradually the waves of the sea became foamless, that is, the sea was becalmed and the North Star-the seamen on their compasses still say star-little by little was veiled and became invisible, and he also said that the stars in that region are not arranged as here. They are seen in a different arrangement. They anchored at the island which they had seen earlier across the way, the population of the island came, shot arrows at them and did not allow them to land and ask for information. The males and the females shot hand arrows. The tips of these arrows were made of fishbones, and the whole population went naked and also very . . . [illegible]. Seeing that they could not land on that island; they crossed to the other side of the island, they saw a boat. On seelng them; the boat fled and they [the people in the boat] dashed out on land. They [the Spaniards] took the boat. They saw that inside of it there was human flesh. It happened that these people were of that nation which went from island to island hunting men and eating them. They said Colombo saw yet another island, they neared it, they saw that on that island there were great snakes. They avoided landing on this island and remained there seventeen days. The people of this island saw that no harm came to them from this boat, they caught fish and brought it to them in their small ship's boat [filika]. These [Spaniards] were pleased and gave them glass beads. It appears that he [Columbus] had read-in the book that in that region glass beads were valued. Seeing the beads they brought still more fish. These [Spaniards] always gave them glass beads. One day they saw gold around the arm of a woman, they took the gold and gave her beads. They said to them, to bring more gold, we will give you more beads, [they said]. They went and brought them much gold. It appears that in their mountains there were gold mines. One day, also, they saw pearls in the hands of one person. They saw that when; they gave beads, many more pearls were brought to them. Pearls were found on the shore of this island, in a spot one or two fathoms deep. And also loading their ship with many logwood trees and taking two natives along, they carried them within that year to the Bey of Spain. But the said Colombo, not knowing the language of these people, they traded by signs, and after this trip the Bey of Spain sent priests and barley, taught the natives how to sow and reap and converted them to his own religion. They had no religion of any sort. They walked naked and lay there like animals. Now these regions have been opened to all and have become famous. The names which mark the places on the said islands and coasts were given by Colombo, that these places may be known by them. And also Colombo was a great astronomer. The coasts and island on this map are taken from Colombo's map.

Whoever (person or sect) wrote that book knew very well that at the end of the western side of the Western Sea there were coasts and islands and all kinds of metals and also precious stones. .... and glass beads were valued, which clearly shows us that Columbus and his men were not the first. And whosoever wrote that book knew that those coasts was not India: Columbus took with him boxes of glass beads because he knew where he was going to.

Toscanelli's map:


Columbus and the Templars:

“The falsification of history has done more to mislead humans than any single thing known to mankind.” -Jean-Jacques Rousseau

“In the agreements signed on April 17th, 1492, (The Capitulo) and on April 30th, 1492, (The Titulo) the strange fact is that more attention is given to the rulership and jurisdiction of problematical lands that might be discovered en route than to a division of spoils from wealthy Asia.” -Alex Christopher, “Pandora’s Box – The Ultimate Unseen Hand Behind the New World Order,”

In Scotland's Knights Templar Rosslyn Chapel, there are clear depictions of corn and aloe cactus found on the archways and ceiling. These plants were officially discovered in America and first brought to Europe in the 16th century. How then did the Masons building Rosslyn Chapel, completed in 1486, know about these plants at least 6 years before Columbus set sail?

“The official story that Christopher Columbus discovered the Americas is ludicrous. A few miles from Edinburgh in Scotland today still stands Rosslyn Chapel, that holy grail of the Brotherhood Elite. It was built in the shape of a Templar cross by the St Clair-Sinclair family and is a mass of esoteric symbolism. The foundations were laid in 1446 and it was completed in the 1480s. How remarkable then that the stonework at Rosslyn includes depictions of sweetcorn and cacti which were only found in America and Christopher Columbus did not ‘discover’ that continent until 1492! How could this be? There is, in fact, no mystery. Christopher Columbus was not even nearly the first white person to land in the Americas. The Phoenicians, Norse, Irish, Welsh, Bretons, Basques and Portuguese, all sailed to America before him and so did Prince Henry Sinclair of Rosslyn, as documented in a rare book by Frederick I. Pohl called Prince Henry Sinclair’s Voyage To The New World 1398. Sinclair and Antonio Zeno landed in what we call Newfoundland and went ashore in Nova Scotia (New Scotland) in 1398 … The Brotherhood had known about the Americas for thousands of years and Christopher Columbus was used to make the official discovery so that the occupation of the Americas could begin.” – “The Biggest Secret” 178-9


Another mystery: Mercator's North Pole map/Inventio Fortunata


(1609) Gerardus Mercator’s fanciful map of the North Pole and the mythical Northwest Passage over the pole to China. Mercator’s map showing the North Pole as described in the Inventio Fortunata: “Fortunate, or fortune-making, discovery“. It’s “a lost book, probably dating from the 14th century, containing a description of the North Pole as a magnetic island (the Rupes Nigra) surrounded by a giant whirlpool fed by 4 Great Rivers dividing 4 Continents with a mythic central island. No direct extracts from the document have been discovered, but its influence on the Western idea of the geography of the Arctic region persisted for several centuries.”


Van Duzer, Chet, “The Mythology of the Northern Polar Regions: Inventio fortunata and Buddhist Cosmology,” At the Edge: Exploring New Interpretations of Past and Place in Archaeology, Folklore, and Mythology 9 (March, 1998), pp. 8-16.
« Last Edit: April 26, 2014, 08:28:45 AM by sandokhan »