The Flat Earth Society

Flat Earth Discussion Boards => Flat Earth Investigations => Topic started by: AllAroundTheWorld on February 04, 2022, 10:08:33 AM

Title: ISS 2031
Post by: AllAroundTheWorld on February 04, 2022, 10:08:33 AM
So NASA just announced that the ISS will keep operating till 2030 and then in 2031 it will be sent in to a death spiral and plunge in to the ocean.
They've even said where:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-60246032

I'm not sure where I'm going with this other than this is Flat Earth Investigations and I'd suggest this is an opportunity to investigate the ISS and by extension FET.
This is something they're saying will happen, they're telling you where and when. It's something which could potentially be observed - well, it's certainly be on video at the time, you may regard the choice of location, a point far from land, as suspicious. I'd suggest it's a pretty sensible choice given they don't want it crashing on anyone or anything which would cause damage/death.
Title: Re: ISS 2031
Post by: Dr David Thork on February 04, 2022, 11:55:22 AM
So they are shutting the studio on a show that has bad ratings and the death spiral is a nice way of saying "And that's why its not in a museum for you to see with your own lying eyes".

Title: Re: ISS 2031
Post by: AllAroundTheWorld on February 04, 2022, 12:06:43 PM
So they are shutting the studio on a show that has bad ratings and the death spiral is a nice way of saying "And that's why its not in a museum for you to see with your own lying eyes".
But the death spiral will be observable. Come on, you Zetetic lot, I'm sure you could hire a pedalo and go watch.

EDIT: And why would there be a death spiral at all if it's just a studio somewhere?!
Title: Re: ISS 2031
Post by: Dr David Thork on February 04, 2022, 12:23:43 PM
But the death spiral will be observable. Come on, you Zetetic lot, I'm sure you could hire a pedalo and go watch.

Yeah, they've made it real easy for us.  ::)

Quote from: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-60246032
In a report this week, the US space agency said the ISS would crash into a part of the ocean known as Point Nemo.

This is the point furthest from land on planet Earth, also known as the spacecraft cemetery.

EDIT: And why would there be a death spiral at all if it's just a studio somewhere?!
CGI is cheap. They don't even need a fireworks display to cover the tracks of this hoax.
Title: Re: ISS 2031
Post by: AllAroundTheWorld on February 04, 2022, 12:28:46 PM
I see. So you're pre-emptively calling it fake. Fair enough. Saves you having to think about it too much I guess.
Title: Re: ISS 2031
Post by: Dr David Thork on February 04, 2022, 12:46:57 PM
I see. So you're pre-emptively calling it fake. Fair enough. Saves you having to think about it too much I guess.
What do you mean pre-emptively? We've been calling the ISS fake for as long as I've been coming to these forums. The fact they want to end the story at 'the point furthest from land on planet Earth' seems altogether too convenient and predictable.
Title: Re: ISS 2031
Post by: AllAroundTheWorld on February 04, 2022, 12:59:36 PM
I see. So you're pre-emptively calling it fake. Fair enough. Saves you having to think about it too much I guess.
What do you mean pre-emptively? We've been calling the ISS fake for as long as I've been coming to these forums.
You understand you can observe the ISS from the ground, right? You can see it with the naked eye exactly where and when it's said to be appearing and with some not that expensive equipment you can see the shape of it.
This is another opportunity to observe it, you've got 9 years to prepare.
Quote
The fact they want to end the story at 'the point furthest from land on planet Earth' seems altogether too convenient and predictable.
Yeah, I don't understand why they don't just crash it on to a school or something either.
Title: Re: ISS 2031
Post by: Dr David Thork on February 04, 2022, 01:25:30 PM
You understand you can observe the ISS from the ground, right? You can see it with the naked eye exactly where and when it's said to be appearing and with some not that expensive equipment you can see the shape of it.
Oh, I can see their projections on the firmament, no problem at all.

Yeah, I don't understand why they don't just crash it on to a school or something either.
The earth is a big place. I'm sure the options aren't

1) Furthest place from any human likely to observe the death spiral
2) On a school

The US is currently at war with Syria. Why not hit a military installation with it? Would be a hell of a boost for the US troops.
Title: Re: ISS 2031
Post by: Tumeni on February 04, 2022, 01:56:17 PM
projections on the firmament

Projections would require a projector, wouldn't they ... ?
Title: Re: ISS 2031
Post by: DuncanDoenitz on February 04, 2022, 01:58:57 PM
So they could just leave it up there beyond 2031.  Just have to keep putting new batteries in the Firmament Projector Thingy.  Wherever that is. 

And you do understand that, as it breaks up, the different components, having a wide variety of mass/Cd ratios, will be spread over a large area, of which Point Nomo is the centre?  It won't conveniently land in one lump, hence maximise the chances of hitting no-one (or Nemo). 
Title: Re: ISS 2031
Post by: Dr David Thork on February 04, 2022, 02:05:08 PM
Projections would require a projector, wouldn't they ... ?
A teacher requires something to teach. A cup of coffee requires coffee and a cup. An axe murderer requires an axe.

Oh, this thread is about the ISS, not statements of the blindingly obvious. My bad.

So they could just leave it up there beyond 2031.  Just have to keep putting new batteries in the Firmament Projector Thingy.  Wherever that is. 
I'm going to guess they plug it in.

And you do understand that, as it breaks up, the different components, having a wide variety of mass/Cd ratios, will be spread over a large area, of which Point Nomo is the centre?  It won't conveniently land in one lump, hence maximise the chances of hitting no-one (or Nemo). 
Actually there are lots of choices.

1) Let if drift off into space.
2) Hit it with a missile and let all the little pieces disintegrate in the atmosphere.
3) Detonate it with a bomb and let all the pieces disintegrate in the atmosphere.
4) Leave it where it is in orbit.
Title: Re: ISS 2031
Post by: AllAroundTheWorld on February 04, 2022, 02:13:58 PM
You understand you can observe the ISS from the ground, right? You can see it with the naked eye exactly where and when it's said to be appearing and with some not that expensive equipment you can see the shape of it.
Oh, I can see their projections on the firmament, no problem at all.
It's clever how they project a dark shadow on to the sun when it does a transit, isn't it?

https://petapixel.com/2020/06/27/photographer-captures-canadarm2-on-iss-in-solar-transit-for-first-time/

I'm sure you have good evidence of it being a projection.

Quote
The US is currently at war with Syria. Why not hit a military installation with it? Would be a hell of a boost for the US troops.
Well there's people in the ISS at the moment, they probably don't want to kill them.
But it's not a bad idea if (let's face it, they will be) the US are in a war in 2031. Although missiles are guided with a bit more precision than a space station.
It's pretty obvious why they picked a remote point - there will be a fairly big degree of error with an unpowered object falling through the atmosphere.
Title: Re: ISS 2031
Post by: GoldCashew on February 04, 2022, 02:39:04 PM
But the death spiral will be observable. Come on, you Zetetic lot, I'm sure you could hire a pedalo and go watch.

Yeah, they've made it real easy for us.  ::)

Quote from: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-60246032
In a report this week, the US space agency said the ISS would crash into a part of the ocean known as Point Nemo.

This is the point furthest from land on planet Earth, also known as the spacecraft cemetery.

EDIT: And why would there be a death spiral at all if it's just a studio somewhere?!
CGI is cheap. They don't even need a fireworks display to cover the tracks of this hoax.


Thork,

If NASA is saying that this event will happen in 2031, why not simply prepare for that event so that when said event is "supposed" to happen, than the FE community could use observation to disprove such an event?

Such a documented observation could then be placed into TFES Wiki as evidence to support the belief in a space travel conspiracy.

Why pre-emptively say "fake / CGI" now.... why not use empirical methods like observation to simply disprove at the time the "supposed" event is to occur?
Title: Re: ISS 2031
Post by: DuncanDoenitz on February 04, 2022, 03:30:19 PM


1) Let if drift off into space.
2) Hit it with a missile and let all the little pieces disintegrate in the atmosphere.
3) Detonate it with a bomb and let all the pieces disintegrate in the atmosphere.
4) Leave it where it is in orbit.


I don't think you're really trying here. 

1.  Its in LEO.  It would require a lot of energy to launch it into free space. 
2.  Most of the pieces would remain in orbit, adding to the space trash problem. 
3.  see above. 
4.  Its orbit will eventually decay, leading to random impact with the schools, orphanages and so forth already mentioned. 
Title: Re: ISS 2031
Post by: WTF_Seriously on February 04, 2022, 05:20:08 PM
You understand you can observe the ISS from the ground, right? You can see it with the naked eye exactly where and when it's said to be appearing and with some not that expensive equipment you can see the shape of it.
Oh, I can see their projections on the firmament, no problem at all.
It's clever how they project a dark shadow on to the sun when it does a transit, isn't it?

https://petapixel.com/2020/06/27/photographer-captures-canadarm2-on-iss-in-solar-transit-for-first-time/

I'm sure you have good evidence of it being a projection.


The projection technology is quite fantastic.  They are able to project on the firmament, then immediately onto the moons surface, then immediately back onto the firmament.  Quite impressive tech if you think about it.

https://www.cnet.com/news/this-is-a-real-view-of-the-iss-transiting-the-moon/
Title: Re: ISS 2031
Post by: Dr David Thork on February 04, 2022, 06:09:30 PM
Well there's people in the ISS at the moment, they probably don't want to kill them.
I thought they were going to let the astronauts get off before they crashed it into the sea. If they let them off to crash it into the sea, why would you leave them on to crash into a Syrian bunker?

But it's not a bad idea if (let's face it, they will be) the US are in a war in 2031. Although missiles are guided with a bit more precision than a space station.
A missile would have no where near the energy of a hypersonic 420,000kg space station. That would make one hell of a hole.

It's pretty obvious why they picked a remote point - there will be a fairly big degree of error with an unpowered object falling through the atmosphere.
Why do they have to bring it back to earth to be junk in the ocean. Why don't they just let it float off into the vast expanse of an infinite universe and be junk where no creature, plant or anything will ever come across it?
Title: Re: ISS 2031
Post by: Dr David Thork on February 04, 2022, 06:14:07 PM
If NASA is saying that this event will happen in 2031, why not simply prepare for that event so that when said event is "supposed" to happen, than the FE community could use observation to disprove such an event?

Also
It's pretty obvious why they picked a remote point - there will be a fairly big degree of error with an unpowered object falling through the atmosphere.
So GoldCashew wants me to get in a boat and be in the vicinity when a million pieces of space shuttle come reigning down with a "fairly big degree of error".

How about I don't volunteer for this suicide mission, thank you?  >:(
Title: Re: ISS 2031
Post by: AllAroundTheWorld on February 04, 2022, 06:15:24 PM
A missile would have no where near the energy of a hypersonic 420,000kg space station. That would make one hell of a hole.
Yes. And has been explained it would probably make quite a few big holes and there would be no certainty about exactly where. A remote spot in the ocean is a more sensible choice.

Quote
Why do they have to bring it back to earth to be junk in the ocean. Why don't they just let it float off into the vast expanse of an infinite universe and be junk where no creature, plant or anything will ever come across it?
Explained in another post.
The ISS is not like a helium balloon. You can’t just let go and it floats off somewhere, never to be seen again.
Title: Re: ISS 2031
Post by: Dr David Thork on February 04, 2022, 06:21:33 PM
Yes. And has been explained it would probably make quite a few big holes and there would be no certainty about exactly where. A remote spot in the ocean is a more sensible choice.
Well Russia is a big place. Pepper Russia with it.

The ISS is not like a helium balloon. You can’t just let go and it floats off somewhere, never to be seen again.
It's not real. This is like explaining to me the powers that a wizard does and does not have in the lore of the daft book you are reading. It's just fantasy.
Title: Re: ISS 2031
Post by: AllAroundTheWorld on February 04, 2022, 06:25:14 PM
A fantasy you can literally see.
And I’ve explained with the transits why your super cool projection theory - which you have zero evidence for - doesn’t work.
Title: Re: ISS 2031
Post by: Pete Svarrior on February 04, 2022, 06:30:57 PM
So GoldCashew wants me to get in a boat and be in the vicinity when a million pieces of space shuttle come reigning down with a "fairly big degree of error".

How about I don't volunteer for this suicide mission, thank you?  >:(
Man, I love the RE'er mindset on these things.

"Oh yeah, well, if you actually believe in your worldview, then you'll spend half of your life earnings personally travelling to, quite literally, the most remote place on Earth and risk being killed. If you don't do that, do you truly stand by your convictions?"

You can tell these people never believed in anything in their lives.
Title: Re: ISS 2031
Post by: WTF_Seriously on February 04, 2022, 06:54:08 PM
So GoldCashew wants me to get in a boat and be in the vicinity when a million pieces of space shuttle come reigning down with a "fairly big degree of error".

How about I don't volunteer for this suicide mission, thank you?  >:(
Man, I love the RE'er mindset on these things.

"Oh yeah, well, if you actually believe in your worldview, then you'll spend half of your life earnings personally travelling to, quite literally, the most remote place on Earth and risk being killed. If you don't do that, do you truly stand by your convictions?"

You can tell these people never believed in anything in their lives.

So, all of those folks who risked their lives centuries ago to explore things beyond Europe never spent their life earnings or risked being killed?  Those folks must not have ever believed in anything.   ::)
Title: Re: ISS 2031
Post by: Pete Svarrior on February 04, 2022, 07:05:54 PM
So, all of those folks who risked their lives centuries ago to explore things beyond Europe never spent their life earnings or risked being killed?  Those folks must not have ever believed in anything.   ::)
You seem to have somehow read what I said but taken away the exact opposite of what I said. But hey, if you or Cashew personally risked your lives to explore anything (either recently or centuries ago), feel free to let me know. I'll be much less dismissive of your loud demands then.
Title: Re: ISS 2031
Post by: WTF_Seriously on February 04, 2022, 07:24:13 PM
Fair enough.
Title: Re: ISS 2031
Post by: Dr David Thork on February 04, 2022, 07:26:52 PM
I don't want you to think that here at tfes.org we don't take all your suggestions seriously. So I have conducted a SWOT analysis of your proposal. I hope you can see how I have come to the conclusion that I should probably just stay at home.

(https://i.ibb.co/wyQ5Gkz/SWOT.png)

Title: Re: ISS 2031
Post by: WTF_Seriously on February 04, 2022, 07:38:47 PM
Actually, of the 4 the bottom right is plausible.
Title: Re: ISS 2031
Post by: Dr David Thork on February 04, 2022, 07:40:46 PM
Actually, of the 4 the bottom right is plausible.
My thoughts exactly. I think we should probably end this thread here. We'll chalk this up as another win for the flat earth society.

OK, everybody out. Show's over.

Title: Re: ISS 2031
Post by: GoldCashew on February 04, 2022, 08:14:51 PM
If NASA is saying that this event will happen in 2031, why not simply prepare for that event so that when said event is "supposed" to happen, than the FE community could use observation to disprove such an event?

Also
It's pretty obvious why they picked a remote point - there will be a fairly big degree of error with an unpowered object falling through the atmosphere.
So GoldCashew wants me to get in a boat and be in the vicinity when a million pieces of space shuttle come reigning down with a "fairly big degree of error".

How about I don't volunteer for this suicide mission, thank you?  >:(


Why are you assuming that the only method of observation would involve getting in a boat and being in the vicinity?

Also, why are you referencing the Space Shuttle? That program ended in 2011 I believe. This is a discussion about the ISS.
Title: Re: ISS 2031
Post by: Dr David Thork on February 04, 2022, 08:23:53 PM
Why are you assuming that the only method of observation would involve getting in a boat and being in the vicinity?
Because it is a very long swim.

Also, why are you referencing the Space Shuttle? That program ended in 2011 I believe. This is a discussion about the ISS.
I meant space station. Are you perfect? No. you don't even know what shape the earth is.  >:(

Also, can't you read?
I think we should probably end this thread here.
This dead horse has been flogged enough.
Title: Re: ISS 2031
Post by: GoldCashew on February 04, 2022, 09:03:13 PM
Why are you assuming that the only method of observation would involve getting in a boat and being in the vicinity?
Because it is a very long swim.

Also, why are you referencing the Space Shuttle? That program ended in 2011 I believe. This is a discussion about the ISS.
I meant space station. Are you perfect? No. you don't even know what shape the earth is.  >:(

Also, can't you read?
I think we should probably end this thread here.
This dead horse has been flogged enough.


The following are answers to your comments and inquiries:

1) You wouldn't need to be on a boat or swim to the vicinity to make an observation about the ISS breaking up.
2) No, I am not perfect, and neither are you. So, therefor you might be mistaken of the Earth being flat or the notion of a space travel conspiracy.
3) Yes, I can read, which is why I caught your error when you incorrectly referenced the Space Shuttle vs. the ISS.
4) Yes, we know what shape the Earth is. It is a sphere because it has been observed to have both curvature and be a sphere.
Title: Re: ISS 2031
Post by: AllAroundTheWorld on February 04, 2022, 09:20:06 PM
"Oh yeah, well, if you actually believe in your worldview, then you'll spend half of your life earnings personally travelling to, quite literally, the most remote place on Earth and risk being killed. If you don't do that, do you truly stand by your convictions?"
Obviously I was being a little facetious.
But.
There’s a LOT of space exploration activity going on by multiple countries all the time. A lot of FE people who think it’s all fake seem to just put it all in a “it’s all fake so try not to think about it too much” bucket. Always feels a bit lazy. Every mission and launch is an opportunity for investigation. People who were sincerely seeking the truth would put a bit more effort in, I reckon.
Title: Re: ISS 2031
Post by: Pete Svarrior on February 04, 2022, 09:22:54 PM
Obviously I was being a little facetious.
P'oh! Many people wouldn't get away with that, you know.

People who were sincerely seeking the truth would put a bit more effort in, I reckon.
Okay, give me an idea of what effort you expect us to be putting in 9 years in advance of an event outside of our control.
Title: Re: ISS 2031
Post by: WTF_Seriously on February 04, 2022, 10:20:44 PM
Obviously I was being a little facetious.
P'oh! Many people wouldn't get away with that, you know.

People who were sincerely seeking the truth would put a bit more effort in, I reckon.
Okay, give me an idea of what effort you expect us to be putting in 9 years in advance of an event outside of our control.

Start a GoFundMe account.  That seems to be what everyone else does.  Or perhaps Thork could advertise donating some percentage of his OnlyFans money.  That should get some bucks rolling in.
Title: Re: ISS 2031
Post by: Pete Svarrior on February 04, 2022, 10:27:04 PM
Start a GoFundMe account.
Yes, this is a realistic plan that will work. Gosh, I think I preferred it when you were comparing yourself to explorers from centuries ago.
Title: Re: ISS 2031
Post by: WTF_Seriously on February 04, 2022, 10:33:52 PM
Start a GoFundMe account.
Yes, this is a realistic plan that will work. Gosh, I think I preferred it when you were comparing yourself to explorers from centuries ago.

Isn't it the FE folks who proclaim to have millions of adherents worldwide.  A simple $1 donation and you have millions to charter a vessel to witness the nothing first hand.
Title: Re: ISS 2031
Post by: Pete Svarrior on February 04, 2022, 10:34:42 PM
Isn't it the FE folks who proclaim to have millions of adherents worldwide.  A simple $1 donation and you have millions to charter a vessel to witness the nothing first hand.
You seem to have an extremely detached idea of how fundraisers work. Again, you were better off comparing yourself to the explorers of yore.
Title: Re: ISS 2031
Post by: WTF_Seriously on February 04, 2022, 10:47:24 PM
Isn't it the FE folks who proclaim to have millions of adherents worldwide.  A simple $1 donation and you have millions to charter a vessel to witness the nothing first hand.
You seem to have an extremely detached idea of how fundraisers work. Again, you were better off comparing yourself to the explorers of yore.

Yeah, you'd likely have trouble gaining trust with any kind of FE fundraising

https://www.theverge.com/tldr/2017/9/26/16369890/bob-flat-earth-satellite-gofundme-scam-crowdfunding-conspiracy
Title: Re: ISS 2031
Post by: GoldCashew on February 05, 2022, 12:25:38 AM
You understand you can observe the ISS from the ground, right? You can see it with the naked eye exactly where and when it's said to be appearing and with some not that expensive equipment you can see the shape of it.
Oh, I can see their projections on the firmament, no problem at all.

Yeah, I don't understand why they don't just crash it on to a school or something either.
The earth is a big place. I'm sure the options aren't

1) Furthest place from any human likely to observe the death spiral
2) On a school

The US is currently at war with Syria. Why not hit a military installation with it? Would be a hell of a boost for the US troops.


If you believe that the ISS is a projection on the firmament (as you mention above), than over the next 9 years the FE community could form a game plan and execute a game plan to search for and prove the existence of such a projection station or projection stations.

If I were a FE'er and believed that the ISS was a projection onto the firmament, these are some questions I might ask to then go after:

- Is the fake ISS projection coming from a single projection device or multiple projection devices?
- If multiple projection devices, how do they work in concert with each other so seamlessly without multiple projections being layered on top of each other?
- Where might the projection station(s) be located? Take pictures of said projection station(s) as evidence.

Another idea:
- Consider working within the FE community to start a 7-8 year fundraising campaign to raise money to design and create a drone platform with 360 cameras (if I understand FE claims from previous postings, there may be 10's of millions of flat earth believers). Place said drone platform with cameras in the vicinity of where NASA says the ISS impact is to occur. If drone platform records debris impact than that would be consistent with what NASA is saying would have happened. If no impact is recorded, than FE can claim the ISS was indeed nothing more than a hoax.

(The design and creation of drone platform could be managed through various stage gate phases, from initial concept to full feasibility and could include various prototyping phases to refine and tune the design) 
Title: Re: ISS 2031
Post by: Tumeni on February 05, 2022, 09:47:51 AM
I can see their projections on the firmament

You say you CAN, but how many times have you actually DONE this?

Have you actually watched this "projection" at any time?
Title: Re: ISS 2031
Post by: AllAroundTheWorld on February 05, 2022, 10:13:26 PM
Okay, give me an idea of what effort you expect us to be putting in 9 years in advance of an event outside of our control.
Well ok, this particular event might be difficult to observe because of its remoteness.
But there are launches and landings all the time which you can witness, there are ISS transits.
Heck, with a bit of effort you can try contacting them:

https://www.ariss.org/contact-the-iss.html

This might not be the reality, but from the outside it just feels like all space travel - both manned and unmanned - is put in a box marked "FAKE!" without any ongoing investigation. I posted a thread some time back with some CGI experts looked at some of the Apollo footage and basically came to the conclusion that it would have been nigh on impossible to fake at the time. If I recall correctly it was basically ignored by the FE people on here. These are actual subject matter experts, aren't their thoughts relevant? I'd suggest the space programmes in multiple countries and technologies like GPS are not compatible with a FE (I think you dispute this although I'm never clear how you reconcile this). So I would have thought some ongoing investigation into this is worthy of some time, if you are genuinely interested in the truth.
Title: Re: ISS 2031
Post by: Pete Svarrior on February 06, 2022, 04:03:33 PM
Well ok, this particular event might be difficult to observe because of its remoteness.
Did you notice that this is a recurring problem with you? You say something ridiculous, it's pointed out to you, and then you go "Well, okay, in this particular case you're right/I was joking/I was exaggerating, but in another scenario I'd be totally right!"

This thread is about the ISS's supposed spiral of death'n'doom in 2031. I propose that today, in 2022, FES shouldn't be doing much about it at all, due to a lack of credible alternatives.
Title: Re: ISS 2031
Post by: GoldCashew on February 06, 2022, 04:39:52 PM
Well ok, this particular event might be difficult to observe because of its remoteness.
Did you notice that this is a recurring problem with you? You say something ridiculous, it's pointed out to you, and then you go "Well, okay, in this particular case you're right/I was joking/I was exaggerating, but in another scenario I'd be totally right!"

This thread is about the ISS's supposed spiral of death'n'doom in 2031. I propose that today, in 2022, FES shouldn't be doing much about it at all, due to a lack of credible alternatives.


Difficult to observe due to its remoteness doesn't mean not technically feasible.

I offered just one example of a potential path to observe remotely, per my latest above post.

There are likely more empirical ideas or solutions?... maybe continue to take this idea further or build off of this idea but I don't recommend to just give up or look for reasons not to try.

Try and look for ways to get creative such as idea's to observe without being in the vicinity. Brainstorm within the FE community, be resourcefull, innovate but don't recommend to look for excuses to say No, can't be done.

In "Behind the Curve" FE believers invested about $20,000 in a ring gyro. So, raising money within the FE community has been demonstrated as being possible.

Maybe other solution ideas might include not being in the general vicinity but using how powered cameras / scopes to observe... if the ISS will enter the Earth's atmosphere in a specific trajectory, maybe position such observing to the west of a trajectory that might be moving east. Maybe other ideas.

The event is 9 years away.

Also, if your FE cohorts, like Thork, are suggesting that the ISS is a projection, maybe stress test this notion. Where might such projection stations be located? How does such image projection technology work through our atmosphere without the projection image becoming diffused, scattered, or distorted?
Title: Re: ISS 2031
Post by: Pete Svarrior on February 06, 2022, 05:18:01 PM
The event is 9 years away.
Indeed - which is why I asked what you're expecting us to be doing now:

Okay, give me an idea of what effort you expect us to be putting in 9 years in advance of an event outside of our control.
Title: Re: ISS 2031
Post by: GoldCashew on February 06, 2022, 05:39:51 PM
The event is 9 years away.
Indeed - which is why I asked what you're expecting us to be doing now:

Okay, give me an idea of what effort you expect us to be putting in 9 years in advance of an event outside of our control.


The answer to your question is in my above post and in my post before that one.
Title: Re: ISS 2031
Post by: Pete Svarrior on February 06, 2022, 05:45:37 PM
The answer to your question is in my above post and in my post before that one.
The only idea you've presented that's vaguely on-topic is a decade-long fundraiser in order to re-invent (for some reason?) a drone with a gopro strapped on to it. You did so immediately after we finished discussing why a fundraiser is unlikely to work. Please remember that you're not currently in AR - a modicum of effort is expected.
Title: Re: ISS 2031
Post by: GoldCashew on February 06, 2022, 06:21:43 PM
The answer to your question is in my above post and in my post before that one.
The only idea you've presented that's vaguely on-topic is a decade-long fundraiser in order to re-invent (for some reason?) a drone with a gopro strapped on to it. You did so immediately after we finished discussing why a fundraiser is unlikely to work. Please remember that you're not currently in AR - a modicum of effort is expected.


That wasn't the only idea I presented. I stated a couple of things:

"I offered just one example of a potential path to observe remotely, per my latest above post. There are likely more empirical ideas or solutions?... maybe continue to take this idea further or build off of this idea but I don't recommend to just give up or look for reasons not to try."

"Maybe other solution ideas might include not being in the vicinity but using high powered camera / scopes to observe... if the ISS will enter the Earth's atmosphere in a specific trajectory, maybe position such observing to the west of trajectory that might be moving east. Maybe other ideas".

So essentially, start to build a foundation for seedbed idea's as a starting point of how a team might be able to observe within the constraints of (to your point) cost of funding. TFES site was built from the efforts of your fellow TFES cohorts. It obviously took a ton of effort to get it to where it is today and so I have to assume that the folks and leaders that built this FE site could also participate in brainstorming methods and innovate around potentially clever ways to try and observe the event. 

I think that in parallel, I also said to challenge or stress test the notion of what some of your FE cohorts suggest (like Thork) which is that the ISS isn't even real but a projection. If you can prove that the ISS is a projection, than it's game over and no work needed to prove anything more.
"Where might such projection stations be located? How does such image projection technology work through our atmosphere and against a firmament dome without the projection image becoming diffused, scattered, or distorted?"
Title: Re: ISS 2031
Post by: Pete Svarrior on February 06, 2022, 07:01:28 PM
"I offered just one example of a potential path to observe remotely, per my latest above post. There are likely more empirical ideas or solutions?... maybe continue to take this idea further or build off of this idea but I don't recommend to just give up or look for reasons not to try."
Ah, yes, the fantastic idea of "just find an idea". What would we do without you?

If you have nothing useful to say, please do not post in the upper. Your speciality is airing your insecurities in AR - stick to it.

"Maybe other solution ideas might include not being in the vicinity but using high powered camera / scopes to observe... if the ISS will enter the Earth's atmosphere in a specific trajectory, maybe position such observing to the west of trajectory that might be moving east. Maybe other ideas".
What the fuck is a "high powered camera"? You don't know much about photography/videography, do you?

And, again, responding to a call for specific ideas - what is it that you want us to be doing 9 years in advance of the event? - with "idk find ideas or something" is not very useful.
Title: Re: ISS 2031
Post by: AllAroundTheWorld on February 06, 2022, 08:32:58 PM
Well ok, this particular event might be difficult to observe because of its remoteness.
Did you notice that this is a recurring problem with you? You say something ridiculous, it's pointed out to you, and then you go "Well, okay, in this particular case you're right/I was joking/I was exaggerating, but in another scenario I'd be totally right!"

This thread is about the ISS's supposed spiral of death'n'doom in 2031. I propose that today, in 2022, FES shouldn't be doing much about it at all, due to a lack of credible alternatives.
I don’t see how this is a problem.
I was using the 2031 event as an example.
But doing so to shine a spotlight on a wider problem I perceive with FE which is putting the whole of “space exploration” in an “it’s all fake so let’s not think about it too much” box.
And that might well just be simply a perceived problem, but given the number of launches going on in multiple countries there are plenty of opportunities for investigation. With the regard to the ISS, there are plenty of opportunities for investigation before 2031. The locations you can see it are published in advance, there are transits and there are even opportunities to contact the astronauts directly. It seems to me that people claiming to seek truth would be putting more effort in to this.
Title: Re: ISS 2031
Post by: GoldCashew on February 06, 2022, 08:39:00 PM
"I offered just one example of a potential path to observe remotely, per my latest above post. There are likely more empirical ideas or solutions?... maybe continue to take this idea further or build off of this idea but I don't recommend to just give up or look for reasons not to try."
Ah, yes, the fantastic idea of "just find an idea". What would we do without you?

If you have nothing useful to say, please do not post in the upper. Your speciality is airing your insecurities in AR - stick to it.

"Maybe other solution ideas might include not being in the vicinity but using high powered camera / scopes to observe... if the ISS will enter the Earth's atmosphere in a specific trajectory, maybe position such observing to the west of trajectory that might be moving east. Maybe other ideas".
What the fuck is a "high powered camera"? You don't know much about photography/videography, do you?

And, again, responding to a call for specific ideas - what is it that you want us to be doing 9 years in advance of the event? - with "idk find ideas or something" is not very useful.



I guess by high powered camera I was referring to a high performance digital camera attached to a ground based (optical) telescope. With a wide field of view this could be a potential solution. I know that these types of technologies are used by NASA and other agencies to track space debris and so perhaps the same could be used to track the ISS entering the Earth's atmosphere as well. I would admit that I don't know how much a setup like this would cost, but to answer your above question, this is something that the FE community could at least start looking into now. If such a setup is feasible (including cost) than other work that could be done would be using it to perform preliminary observation (of the ISS orbiting or space debris) so that operators know how to use the device when the time comes.

Other question(s) would then be where exactly is NASA going to be putting the ISS in terms of it's re-entry 9 years from now so that the ISS entry could be observed with above device. I would concede that the answer to this question is obviously unknown and could prove to be a challenge unless NASA provides such re-entry information within a sufficient timespan for setup.

So, the above is one short term path that FE community could be looking into.

As also mentioned, the theory that the ISS is a projection (by some FE believers) could also be challenged or stress-tested in parallel to the above work. Where might such projections be located? Could such a projection be able to project crisp images upon a firmament dome, without any diffusion or scattering through the Earth's atmosphere? 
Title: Re: ISS 2031
Post by: Pete Svarrior on February 06, 2022, 08:46:23 PM
I don’t see how this is a problem.
It's a problem because many arguments you make are extremely poor, and they distract away from meaningful debate of the subjects. You make a half-arsed argument, it turns out it was completely inapplicable, and then you go "okay yeah so I obviously didn't mean what I said". It happens non-stop. Oh, you were joking. Oh, you were obviously exaggerating. Oh, okay, so maybe your argument doesn't make sense right now, but maybe it will at some other point?

Considering that you keenly hold others to high standards and expect them to get banned for making similarly poor arguments, it'd be nice if you could start practising what you preach.

I guess by high powered camera I was referring to a high performance digital camera attached to a ground based (optical) telescope.
What in Bambi's name are you talking about? RET or FET, no telescope or camera will enable you to see the supposed crash zone from a ground-based facility, nor will it enable you to reliably see the edge of the atmolayer.

I would admit that I don't know how much a setup like this would cost
Debating the cost of something that's completely unfeasible from an optics standpoint is rather meaningless.
Title: Re: ISS 2031
Post by: AllAroundTheWorld on February 06, 2022, 09:29:27 PM
Oh, okay, so maybe your argument doesn't make sense right now, but maybe it will at some other point?
As I have explained multiple times, I was using the announced event in 2031 as an example of a general principle/perceived problem I see in FE. Which is the general lack of effort in investigating claims which, if true, would show FE to be incorrect. (Or maybe they wouldn't, you seem to believe space exploration is not in contradiction to FET, I am yet to understand how you square that circle).
So sure, when I suggest you collectively hire a pedalo to go to the most remote spot on earth to observe this event I am clearly being facetious. When I explain, on cross examination, that I am talking about a more general problem I see with FE then I am not. Does a thread really have to be so laser focused that it can't extend from an example to a more general principle?

So do you have any response to the more general problem I have highlighted.
And do you think FE is compatible with space exploration as claimed by multiple countries and now private enterprises who take part in it? If so then could you explain how that would work?
Title: Re: ISS 2031
Post by: GoldCashew on February 06, 2022, 09:30:28 PM
I don’t see how this is a problem.
It's a problem because many arguments you make are extremely poor, and they distract away from meaningful debate of the subjects. You make a half-arsed argument, it turns out it was completely inapplicable, and then you go "okay yeah so I obviously didn't mean what I said". It happens non-stop. Oh, you were joking. Oh, you were obviously exaggerating. Oh, okay, so maybe your argument doesn't make sense right now, but maybe it will at some other point?

Considering that you keenly hold others to high standards and expect them to get banned for making similarly poor arguments, it'd be nice if you could start practising what you preach.

I guess by high powered camera I was referring to a high performance digital camera attached to a ground based (optical) telescope.
What in Bambi's name are you talking about? RET or FET, no telescope or camera will enable you to see the supposed crash zone from a ground-based facility, nor will it enable you to reliably see the edge of the atmolayer.

I would admit that I don't know how much a setup like this would cost
Debating the cost of something that's completely unfeasible from an optics standpoint is rather meaningless.


I didn't say the ground based (optical) telescope will enable one to see the supposed crash zone. I said that "...the same could be used to track the ISS entering the Earth's atmosphere." This would be a starting point to putting "eyes" on the object in question (the ISS) by the FE community as it enters and begins to break up.

If this isn't done than the FE community would likely say something like, yes I observed something crashing but that it was NASA faking something coming from space; i.e. debris was dropped from a really high altitude weather balloon or a high altitude aircraft to make it appear as the ISS. So, we need to begin with eyes on the ISS entering and breaking up in the Earth's atmosphere as a starting point.

In terms of cost of equipment to track the ISS entering the Earth's atmosphere, I didn't suggest that it's a debatable item. I simply admitted that I didn't know how much a setup like this would cost.
 
Title: Re: ISS 2031
Post by: Pete Svarrior on February 06, 2022, 09:34:19 PM
So do you have any response to the more general problem I have highlighted.
Yes, but it's not one you'll like. I'll politely ask you to stay on topic, and if you want to discuss another topic, start a thread on it. This thread is about what is supposed to happen to the ISS in 2031, and a few people's outrage with the fact that we haven't yet built a network cutting-edge ISS tracking facilities along Pacific coastlines.

I didn't say the ground based (optical) telescope will enable one to see the supposed crash zone.
Luckily, I covered both cases.
Title: Re: ISS 2031
Post by: GoldCashew on February 06, 2022, 10:02:42 PM
So do you have any response to the more general problem I have highlighted.
Yes, but it's not one you'll like. I'll politely ask you to stay on topic, and if you want to discuss another topic, start a thread on it. This thread is about what is supposed to happen to the ISS in 2031, and a few people's outrage with the fact that we haven't yet built a network cutting-edge ISS tracking facilities along Pacific coastlines.

I didn't say the ground based (optical) telescope will enable one to see the supposed crash zone.
Luckily, I covered both cases.


You didn't cover both cases and you incorrectly assumed something I said. The ground based (optical) telescope with high performance digital camera (that I mentioned above) can indeed be used to observe the ISS, is used to observe space debris, and could be used to observe the ISS entering the Earth's atmosphere and it's start of breaking apart.
Title: Re: ISS 2031
Post by: Pete Svarrior on February 06, 2022, 10:05:22 PM
You didn't cover both cases and you incorrectly assumed something I said.
I see. I'm not sure how you'll reconcile that with what I wrote, which explicitly covers both possible assumptions, but hey-ho.

Get serious or get out of the upper. I won't repeat myself.
Title: Re: ISS 2031
Post by: AllAroundTheWorld on February 12, 2022, 10:32:35 PM
I’ll stick this here and it’s related to the OP, it’s something FE people could be doing to investigate the ISS now ahead of 2031. This radio ham got a signal from the ISS during a couple of passes. During the first pass he picked up a signal of them talking to students at a school, during the second he managed to contact them himself

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=MpZqaVwaIYk
Title: Re: ISS 2031
Post by: Tron on February 17, 2022, 04:53:14 PM
Thats pretty cool.  I didn't know you could just "patch in" to the ISS and speak with them.