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Other Discussion Boards => Science & Alternative Science => Topic started by: Tron on October 13, 2021, 01:07:57 PM

Title: Blue Origins / William Shatner space launch (T-1hour)
Post by: Tron on October 13, 2021, 01:07:57 PM
https://youtu.be/uEhdlIor-do

Title: Re: Blue Origins / William Shatner space launch (T-1hour)
Post by: Dr David Thork on October 13, 2021, 01:36:20 PM
If he gets attacked by Tribbles, I'm calling BS.

(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/5/50/ST_TroubleWithTribbles.jpg)
Title: Re: Blue Origins / William Shatner space launch (T-1hour)
Post by: beardo on October 13, 2021, 06:52:57 PM
Shatner is great. Just great.
Title: Re: Blue Origins / William Shatner space launch (T-1hour)
Post by: Dr Van Nostrand on October 13, 2021, 07:14:46 PM
 KHAAAAAAANNNNN!!!!!

 >o<
Title: Re: Blue Origins / William Shatner space launch (T-1hour)
Post by: Dr David Thork on October 13, 2021, 07:17:52 PM
Literally zero footage of Shatner. How am I supposed to believe he went to space?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V1wtwGZEKLU

All you get is an interview with him standing some distance from the supposed launch vehicle. He's an actor (granted not a very good one). I get that he can memorise what to say. Where was the space flight footage?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7q6BtcZ7Ugk

The interview is not very convincing to be honest. He doesn't seem much to me like a man who brushed the face of God. More like an old hack, hamming it up in a badly cast cameo.
Title: Re: Blue Origins / William Shatner space launch (T-1hour)
Post by: stack on October 13, 2021, 07:35:00 PM
Literally zero footage of Shatner. How am I supposed to believe he went to space?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V1wtwGZEKLU

All you get is an interview with him standing some distance from the supposed launch vehicle. He's an actor (granted not a very good one). I get that he can memorise what to say. Where was the space flight footage?

Patience. When footage inside the capsule is posted, what will you say then?
Title: Re: Blue Origins / William Shatner space launch (T-1hour)
Post by: Dr Van Nostrand on October 13, 2021, 07:55:45 PM
The interview is not very convincing to be honest. He doesn't seem much to me like a man who brushed the face of God. More like an old hack, hamming it up in a badly cast cameo.

Yeah, but if that rocket exploded 65 miles above the Atlantic Ocean and Shatner was gone, that would be actual proof.
Title: Re: Blue Origins / William Shatner space launch (T-1hour)
Post by: Dr David Thork on October 13, 2021, 07:59:12 PM
The interview is not very convincing to be honest. He doesn't seem much to me like a man who brushed the face of God. More like an old hack, hamming it up in a badly cast cameo.

Yeah, but if that rocket exploded 65 miles above the Atlantic Ocean and Shatner was gone, that would be actual proof.
I would buy a small chunk of exploded Shatner if Blue Origins were to make keychains or paper weights or something.
Title: Re: Blue Origins / William Shatner space launch (T-1hour)
Post by: Tron on October 14, 2021, 12:26:16 AM
Literally zero footage of Shatner. How am I supposed to believe he went to space?

Yeah I didn't understand that either.
Title: Re: Blue Origins / William Shatner space launch (T-1hour)
Post by: stack on October 14, 2021, 04:43:24 AM
90 year old Shat looks a little scared and not so agile. He is 90 after all. Here's some footage:

https://youtu.be/61LsDTZVjR0
Title: Re: Blue Origins / William Shatner space launch (T-1hour)
Post by: Dr David Thork on October 14, 2021, 09:51:25 AM
^ So the stunt actors are attached to harnesses and demonstrate the weightlessness. Meanwhile a 90 year old Shatner, too fragile to be dangled from a harness remains planted to his seat, but for a brief moment when he stands ... yes stands ... upright in a zero g environment.

Something smells.
Title: Re: Blue Origins / William Shatner space launch (T-1hour)
Post by: Rama Set on October 14, 2021, 09:59:21 AM
^ So the stunt actors are attached to harnesses and demonstrate the weightlessness. Meanwhile a 90 year old Shatner, too fragile to be dangled from a harness remains planted to his seat, but for a brief moment when he stands ... yes stands ... upright in a zero g environment.

Something smells.

Whats wrong with standing? Why are you assuming his feet are on the floor? Why are you inventing harnesses?
Title: Re: Blue Origins / William Shatner space launch (T-1hour)
Post by: Dr David Thork on October 14, 2021, 10:08:08 AM
Why is Shatner not floating about in a zero g environment? It takes absolutely no effort at all. The entire point of the freefall is to give that sensation. Why does Shatner not get involved in the very experience the flight is supposed to provide?

I'd add the floating objects in the cabin all look CGI'd and why would you build a multi billion dollar rocket and fit it with a potato cam? 480p is the best camera they could afford? Give me one reason why I can't watch this in 4k on youtube. Youtube says 1080p, but there is no way the original is 1080p.
Title: Re: Blue Origins / William Shatner space launch (T-1hour)
Post by: Rama Set on October 14, 2021, 10:21:45 AM
Why is Shatner not floating about in a zero g environment? It takes absolutely no effort at all. The entire point of the freefall is to give that sensation. Why does Shatner not get involved in the very experience the flight is supposed to provide?

So no answers for my questions.

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I'd add the floating objects in the cabin all look CGI'd and why would you build a multi billion dollar rocket and fit it with a potato cam? 480p is the best camera they could afford? Give me one reason why I can't watch this in 4k on youtube. Youtube says 1080p, but there is no way the original is 1080p.

Perhaps it’s the internet bandwidth? Maybe your perception is just wrong?
Title: Re: Blue Origins / William Shatner space launch (T-1hour)
Post by: Shifter on October 14, 2021, 10:34:10 AM
Thorks got a point. Even a 10 year old mobile phone camera puts out better footage. And you think after all the money you blew on the trip you wouldn't take a selfie or bring along some 4 or 8K cameras? No camera on the outside? No one wanted to take their own personal photo by the window or out the window? C'mon

This trip is the pinnacle of being pompous. All those resources expended which are not infinite. All those extra greenhouse gas emissions - all for some motley snobs to take an 11 minute ride to the edge of space with a view that looks even worse out of an airplane window

https://theconversation.com/space-tourism-rockets-emit-100-times-more-co-per-passenger-than-flights-imagine-a-whole-industry-164601

Disgusting. These rich few with way more dollars than sense will be the reason future generations will not be able to have nice things. I shudder to think this will be made into an entire industry.

If there was some point..... Some tangible benefit that could be accomplished, OK. But there is no point. I know people will say it's a starting point etc but a point to what? What possible need do people have that needs them to go 100km vertically into the air? Or go that high to go from point A to B across the planet? No point. It's just a very expensive 'rollercoaster' ride for pompous uber rich million/billionaires. 100km is a joke anyway. Not even 1/4 of the way to the ISS lol. And what do they see apart from the sky going from blue to black? I see that every time day turns to night lol

And if people think space tourism is going to convince flat earthers that the earth is round well even from 100km high (or Richard Bransons Virgin Galactic which only goes around 80km high so could stack over 2 Mt Everests height between their max height and Blue Origins max height) the FOV is still not enough to say, 'oh yeah that looks like a sphere' ::)

Going forward, humanity should concentrate on ways to travel that reduce our dependence on finite resources. Not waste them all and pollute our planet just to satisfy the wet dreams of a few
Title: Re: Blue Origins / William Shatner space launch (T-1hour)
Post by: Action80 on October 14, 2021, 11:22:59 AM
Why is Shatner not floating about in a zero g environment? It takes absolutely no effort at all. The entire point of the freefall is to give that sensation. Why does Shatner not get involved in the very experience the flight is supposed to provide?

So no answers for my questions.
Your questions seldom deserve answers.
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I'd add the floating objects in the cabin all look CGI'd and why would you build a multi billion dollar rocket and fit it with a potato cam? 480p is the best camera they could afford? Give me one reason why I can't watch this in 4k on youtube. Youtube says 1080p, but there is no way the original is 1080p.

Perhaps it’s the internet bandwidth? Maybe your perception is just wrong?
^This response clearly demonstrates why your questions deserve no answer.

The level of disingenuous activity you engage in on this post is astounding.

Shatner is standing on a firm floor.

His lower body should be demonstrating signs of weightlessness and it clearly isn't.
Title: Re: Blue Origins / William Shatner space launch (T-1hour)
Post by: beardo on October 14, 2021, 01:05:02 PM
What a great man.
Title: Re: Blue Origins / William Shatner space launch (T-1hour)
Post by: Dr David Thork on October 14, 2021, 01:15:19 PM
I'd like to see some footage of Shatner experiencing some g-force on the way up. It feel suspicious that a 90 year old man who is badly out of shape is able to withstand 6g.

Quote from: https://www.boston.com/news/national-news/2021/10/13/william-shatner-space-launch-blue-origin-livestream-video
Blue Origin said Shatner and the rest of the crew met all the medical and physical requirements, including the ability to hustle up and down several flights of steps at the launch tower. Passengers are subjected to nearly 6 G’s, or six times the force of Earth’s gravity, as the capsule returns to Earth.

Below is a man less than half Shatner's age dealing with less than 4g.

https://youtu.be/DMKcO-T5Y4o?t=191

I think we can call this Shatner trip to space bullshit.
Title: Re: Blue Origins / William Shatner space launch (T-1hour)
Post by: Shifter on October 14, 2021, 01:40:47 PM
I'd like to see some footage of Shatner experiencing some g-force on the way up. It feel suspicious that a 90 year old man who is badly out of shape is able to withstand 6g.

Quote from: https://www.boston.com/news/national-news/2021/10/13/william-shatner-space-launch-blue-origin-livestream-video
Blue Origin said Shatner and the rest of the crew met all the medical and physical requirements, including the ability to hustle up and down several flights of steps at the launch tower. Passengers are subjected to nearly 6 G’s, or six times the force of Earth’s gravity, as the capsule returns to Earth.

Below is a man less than half Shatner's age dealing with less than 4g.

https://youtu.be/DMKcO-T5Y4o?t=191

I think we can call this Shatner trip to space bullshit.

Good points. 90 and out of shape? The entire trip lasts about 10 minutes from start to finish. 6Gs they say? Surprised that the passengers were bright and bubbly and fully lucid during their brief time up there. They should have still been suffering the after effects of the blast off and be nauseous and vomiting

https://www.sciencefocus.com/the-human-body/what-are-the-physiological-effects-of-too-much-g-force/
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It depends on the direction. An upwards acceleration of about 5g is enough to overwhelm the ability of your heart to pump blood to your brain. This causes oxygen starvation and you will black out within a few seconds.

Downward, or negative, g-force is even worse. The blood pools in your head, your face swells up and your lower eyelids are forced over your eyes. This is called ‘redout’ because all you see is the light shining through your eyelids. At negative 3g, the blood can’t get back to your lungs to re-oxygenate, so you pass out.

What medical examiner in their right mind would look at an out of shape 90 year old and give him the tick of approval to subject him to 6Gs? How did he not suffer any after effects? How did his old bones not break?
Title: Re: Blue Origins / William Shatner space launch (T-1hour)
Post by: Dr David Thork on October 14, 2021, 02:12:10 PM
I used to fly aerobatics. I can tell you now that after taking extreme g's, you are shattered afterwards. Exhausted. And yet rather than Shatner saying "I'm broken and by the way, you knocked me out twice. Once on the way up and again on the way down" he is instead prattling on about the sky changing colour. You think he might mention the extreme forces on his body.

If Shatner held a 6-g pull, I want to see that footage. Not carefully curated 'experiences' of joy and wonderment on a 480p potato cam.
Title: Re: Blue Origins / William Shatner space launch (T-1hour)
Post by: Rama Set on October 14, 2021, 02:42:37 PM
How dare he not focus on the part of the experience you care about!
Title: Re: Blue Origins / William Shatner space launch (T-1hour)
Post by: Dr David Thork on October 14, 2021, 02:52:01 PM
If I don't see Shatner bathed in sweat and unconscious, then the world isn't round!  >o<
Title: Re: Blue Origins / William Shatner space launch (T-1hour)
Post by: AllAroundTheWorld on October 14, 2021, 03:13:16 PM
Thorks got a point.
Not really. He’s got a bad case of confirmation bias and he’s operating in the sceptical context. Something which he and other FE people do very selectively. They don’t apply that much scrutiny to anything else.

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What possible need do people have that need them to go 100km vertically into the air?
No one “needs” to climb Everest, or go to Antarctica. But humans have something in them, a spirit of adventure which drives us to do these things. To boldly go, to coin a phrase.

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And what do they see apart from the sky going from blue to black?
They see the globe earth as it really is. They get the experience of weightlessness. They get a perspective on the earth which still very few people get. I think a lot of people would want that experience if they could.

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And if people think space tourism is going to convince flat earthers that the earth is round
I don’t think that. Some people’s cognitive dissonance is off the charts and they’re never going to accept the truth of the shape of the earth. Space tourism is another reason their position is untenable but as we see in this thread some people will dismiss any evidence which contradicts their worldview.

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Going forward, humanity should concentrate on ways to travel that reduce our dependence on finite resources. Not waste them all and pollute our planet just to satisfy the wet dreams of a few
I largely agree, but I believe that as these things go Bezos’ rocket is relatively “green”.
Title: Re: Blue Origins / William Shatner space launch (T-1hour)
Post by: Dr David Thork on October 14, 2021, 03:21:06 PM
I largely agree, but I believe that as these things go Bezos’ rocket is relatively “green”.

Doesn't get any greener than green screen.
Title: Re: Blue Origins / William Shatner space launch (T-1hour)
Post by: Shifter on October 14, 2021, 03:53:09 PM
Thorks got a point.
Not really. He’s got a bad case of confirmation bias and he’s operating in the sceptical context. Something which he and other FE people do very selectively. They don’t apply that much scrutiny to anything else.

Well legitimacy aside, it is curious how the observers were so bubbly and lucid after the violent G force that would have knocked them out. That's not something that takes seconds to recover from. Especially if its some out of shape 90 year olds first time. Did anyone even mention the G force experiences in detail?

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What possible need do people have that need them to go 100km vertically into the air?
No one “needs” to climb Everest, or go to Antarctica. But humans have something in them, a spirit of adventure which drives us to do these things. To boldly go, to coin a phrase.

If you go climb Everest or Antarctica it personally challenges you. It's a real experience. This roller coaster is completely out of the passengers control and you gaze out a window for a few minutes. That's it. That's what tens of millions of dollars gets you. And if this was an industry with many flights every year, think of that pointless environmental damage. A trip like this is the height of selfish snobbery.

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And what do they see apart from the sky going from blue to black?
They see the globe earth as it really is. They get the experience of weightlessness. They get a perspective on the earth which still very few people get. I think a lot of people would want that experience if they could.

At 100km high the Earth below still looks flat. You see very little of the Earth. The horizon would be ~1133km. If the ISS which is 4x higher than what Blue Origin gets was over the middle of Australia, it would not even see any of the coast lines

Weightlessness can be achieved on a commercial airplane. You dont need to spend $28 million. I personally could not care about 'personally' seeing the Earth from that perspective. The money, risk, G force hell and sheer pointlessness of the trip is not worth the couple of minutes up there. Just look at documentaries.

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And if people think space tourism is going to convince flat earthers that the earth is round
I don’t think that. Some people’s cognitive dissonance is off the charts and they’re never going to accept the truth of the shape of the earth. Space tourism is another reason their position is untenable but as we see in this thread some people will dismiss any evidence which contradicts their worldview.

As above, the Earth still looks pretty flat from 100km high. It does have a circumference of almost 40K km afterall

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Going forward, humanity should concentrate on ways to travel that reduce our dependence on finite resources. Not waste them all and pollute our planet just to satisfy the wet dreams of a few
I largely agree, but I believe that as these things go Bezos’ rocket is relatively “green”.

One day, when we really need to get off this planet, we will find the resources scarce and look back and be like 'you know if we didn't have an entire industry devoted to pissing away our future resource needs, we might have been able to go.....

Or maybe the dumping of billions of tonnes of greenhouse gases screws us over before we get that chance.

Now for literally 10x less money (so you could take this trip 10x for every Blue Origins 1 time, you could go on Russias Mig29 'edge of space' (not really) flights. Sit in a fighter jet, go 20km high and do all sorts of acrobatics, fly at 2000km/h and the trip lasts a whole 45 minutes. You may not see a horizon of 1133km but you will see 505km. Honestly the difference in 'curvature' between those would be miniscule. At least the Mig actually goes sideways and offers a cooler view from a cockpit

http://29mig.com/strato/

Not sure on its carbon footprint per flight. But at least it's more fun and thrilling
Title: Re: Blue Origins / William Shatner space launch (T-1hour)
Post by: DuncanDoenitz on October 14, 2021, 11:15:44 PM
I used to fly aerobatics. I can tell you now that after taking extreme g's, you are shattered afterwards. Exhausted. And yet rather than Shatner saying "I'm broken and by the way, you knocked me out twice. Once on the way up and again on the way down" he is instead prattling on about the sky changing colour. You think he might mention the extreme forces on his body.

If Shatner held a 6-g pull, I want to see that footage. Not carefully curated 'experiences' of joy and wonderment on a 480p potato cam.
When you flew aerobatics you were presumably seated; like the guy in the centrifuge.  The Blue Origin passengers are supine.  There is a difference.