The Flat Earth Society

Flat Earth Discussion Boards => Flat Earth Theory => Topic started by: İntikam on June 27, 2016, 03:36:51 PM

Title: Flat Earth Proof, popular astronomy debunk: Sun Changes Size
Post by: İntikam on June 27, 2016, 03:36:51 PM
Sun has the biggest shape on just about 12 pm, and others are smaller.

Title: Re: Flat Earth Proof, popular astronomy debunk: Sun Changes Size
Post by: İntikam on June 27, 2016, 03:40:15 PM
if you want to do that, use your own camera and take the photos at 9 am, 10 am, 12 pm, 15 pm, 18 pm.

Then you check this test.

We are only on the real. these are not imaginary scenarios. Try and see yourself.
Title: Re: Flat Earth Proof, popular astronomy debunk: Sun Changes Size
Post by: TotesNotReptilian on June 27, 2016, 04:57:17 PM
Good job Intikam! This is excellent proof that the sun isn't 3000 miles away from the earth!

If the sun was actually 3000 miles away from the earth, it would be roughly twice as far away from Phuket at 6pm as it is at noon. Therefore, we should expect it to appear roughly half the size at 6pm. The video shows that it is almost the same size throughout the day.

As for why it appears slightly bigger at noon: the person in the video sucks at measuring. Pause at 1:44, when he measures the size at noon. The overlayed circle is slightly bigger than the actual sun. Compare that with 2:12, when he measures the size at 4pm. The overlayed circle is slightly smaller than the actual sun. Also, he could probably use a slightly stronger filter.

Edit: Also, "18pm" is redundant. There is no 18am.
Title: Re: Flat Earth Proof, popular astronomy debunk: Sun Changes Size
Post by: TheTruthIsOnHere on June 27, 2016, 07:13:53 PM
I think the only thing the uploader was trying to do was to show that the sun does have an apparent size change throughout the course of the day.

How does that rectify with a 93,000,000 mile away Sun?
Title: Re: Flat Earth Proof, popular astronomy debunk: Sun Changes Size
Post by: TotesNotReptilian on June 27, 2016, 07:38:42 PM
I think the only thing the uploader was trying to do was to show that the sun does have an apparent size change throughout the course of the day.

How does that rectify with a 93,000,000 mile away Sun?

Refraction can cause slight changes in apparent size during sunrise/sunset. I am pretty sure refraction usually causes it to appear slightly smaller.

However, I suspect the apparent size change has more to do with these two reasons:
1. He doesn't measure carefully. (see my comment previous comment)
2. There is more glare at noon when the sun is brightest, causing it to look slightly bigger. He needs a better filter if he wants precision.

Regardless, this is COMPLETELY different from what a flat earth predicts.
Title: Re: Flat Earth Proof, popular astronomy debunk: Sun Changes Size
Post by: TheTruthIsOnHere on June 27, 2016, 09:25:35 PM
I think the only thing the uploader was trying to do was to show that the sun does have an apparent size change throughout the course of the day.

How does that rectify with a 93,000,000 mile away Sun?

Refraction can cause slight changes in apparent size during sunrise/sunset. I am pretty sure refraction usually causes it to appear slightly smaller.

However, I suspect the apparent size change has more to do with these two reasons:
1. He doesn't measure carefully. (see my comment previous comment)
2. There is more glare at noon when the sun is brightest, causing it to look slightly bigger. He needs a better filter if he wants precision.

Regardless, this is COMPLETELY different from what a flat earth predicts.

Being "pretty sure" refraction makes something look bigger and or smaller sometimes is a far cry from being absolutely certain the Sun doesn't ever change apparent size during the course of one day, which would be impossible if it was 93,000,000.

You can keep hand waving as much as you want, but your effort to somehow make this something incompatible with FET is ignoring the fact that it is also incompatible with RET.
Title: Re: Flat Earth Proof, popular astronomy debunk: Sun Changes Size
Post by: TotesNotReptilian on June 27, 2016, 10:04:34 PM

Being "pretty sure" refraction makes something look bigger and or smaller...

I am absolutely certain that refraction can make something look bigger or smaller. I am pretty sure it usually makes the sun look smaller during sunset.

Quote
...sometimes is a far cry from being absolutely certain the Sun doesn't ever change apparent size during the course of one day, which would be impossible if it was 93,000,000.

I didn't say the sun doesn't ever change apparent size. I said refraction can cause slight changes in apparent size.

Quote
You can keep hand waving as much as you want, but your effort to somehow make this something incompatible with FET is ignoring the fact that it is also incompatible with RET.

The slight changes in apparent size (15% decrease) demonstrated in the video is incompatible with the 50% decrease in size predicted by FET.

The slight changes in apparent size demonstrated in the video is completely compatible with RET, when taking into account the following factors:
2. crappy filter that doesn't block out the glare
3. refraction (probably not a significant factor in this video)

I have no idea how any of this is "hand waving". It seems pretty clear cut to me. Did you pause the video at 1:44 and 2:12 to observe the bad measurements? Did you notice the large amount of glare compared to a better filter like this (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mO85EtME0A4&t=210)?
Title: Re: Flat Earth Proof, popular astronomy debunk: Sun Changes Size
Post by: Rounder on June 27, 2016, 10:59:59 PM
I'm absolutely sure that if the sun and the moon doubled in distance during the day, the apparent difference in size would be much more dramatic than what we actually see.  It wouldn't have to be the subject of pixel-counting video because it would be obvious, every day, all the time, that the sun rises small, grows large by noon, and shrinks small again by sunset.  There would be popular idioms and cliches based on it.  Song lyrics and poetry would refer to it, and would have done throughout human history.  None of that happens, because the sun and moon are the same apparent size except under unusual conditions, because they're both quite far away and the difference in distance from horizon to zenith is a vanishingly small fraction of the overall distance.
Title: Re: Flat Earth Proof, popular astronomy debunk: Sun Changes Size
Post by: rabinoz on June 28, 2016, 03:56:31 AM
I'm absolutely sure that if the sun and the moon doubled in distance during the day, the apparent difference in size would be much more dramatic than what we actually see.  It wouldn't have to be the subject of pixel-counting video because it would be obvious, every day, all the time, that the sun rises small, grows large by noon, and shrinks small again by sunset.  There would be popular idioms and cliches based on it.  Song lyrics and poetry would refer to it, and would have done throughout human history.  None of that happens, because the sun and moon are the same apparent size except under unusual conditions, because they're both quite far away and the difference in distance from horizon to zenith is a vanishingly small fraction of the overall distance.

The sun is not so easy to photograph without the correct filters, but the moon is quite easy to photograph.

I have taken numerous photos and all show the moon at almost the same size. It must be realise that the apparent size of the moon does change significantly during the month as the moon's orbit is elliptic.

The first photo is a bit of an odd man as the camera settings were a little different and while it still show as 1600 mm in the EXIF information, I suspect it might be 1774 mm (the next step).
The following photos were taken (not all on the same day) recently and show the moon at quite different altitudes:

 (http://i1075.photobucket.com/albums/w433/RabDownunder/Moon%20Size/0%20-%2020160522%2017.43%20-%20Moon%20at%20Alt%202.3deg%20Az%20107.5deg%20%20size%20%200.56deg%20at%20-%201600mm_zpslpzftoem.jpg)(0) Date: May 22, 2016 at 17:43 EASTMoon at Alt 2.3°,  Az 107.5°, size  0.56° (http://i1075.photobucket.com/albums/w433/RabDownunder/Moon%20Size/1%20-%2020160524%2019.36%20-%20Moon%20at%20Alt%206.3deg%20Az%20107.7deg%20%20size%20%200.52deg%20at%20-%201600mm_zps8g34x270.jpg)(1) Date: May 24, 2016 19:36 EASTMoon at Alt 6.3°, Az 107.7°,  size  0.52° (http://i1075.photobucket.com/albums/w433/RabDownunder/Moon%20Size/2%20-%2020160524%2020.16%20-%20Moon%20at%20Alt%2014.5deg%20Az%20103.6deg%20%20size%20%200.52deg%20at%20-%201600mm_zpssss1ohoj.jpg)(2) Date: May 24, 2016 at 20:16 EASTMoon at Alt 14.5°, Az 103.6°,  size  0.52°

 (http://i1075.photobucket.com/albums/w433/RabDownunder/Moon%20Size/3%20-%2020160524%2020.57%20-%20Moon%20at%20Alt%2023.1deg%20Az%20%2099.6deg%20%20size%20%200.52deg%20at%20-%201600mm_zpshbqyfysf.jpg)(3) Date: May 24, 2016 at 20:57 EASTMoon at Alt 23.1°, Az  99.6°,  size  0.52° (http://i1075.photobucket.com/albums/w433/RabDownunder/Moon%20Size/4%20-%2020160525%2006.46%20-%20Moon%20at%20Alt%2026.5deg%20Az%20%20262.1deg%20%20size%20%200.50deg%20at%20-%201600mm_zpsy5uinntn.jpg)(4) Date: May 25, 2016 at 06:46 EASTMoon at Alt 26.5°, Az  262.1°,  size  0.50° (http://i1075.photobucket.com/albums/w433/RabDownunder/Moon%20Size/5%20-%2020160524%2022.16%20-%20Moon%20at%20Alt%2037.8deg%20Az%20%2092.7deg%20%20size%20%200.52deg%20at%20-%201600mm_zpsvmxdyqpf.jpg)(5) Date: May 24, 2016 at 22:16 EASTMoon at Alt 37.8°, Az  92.7°,  size  0.52°

 (http://i1075.photobucket.com/albums/w433/RabDownunder/Moon%20Size/6%20-%2020160621%2023.12%20-%20Strawberry%20Moon1%20-%20at%20Alt%2067.1deg%20Azm%2070.8deg%20%20size%20%200.53deg%20at%20-%201600mm_zpslc6ljuso.jpg)(6)Date: June 21, 2016 at 23:12  EASTStrawberry Moon+1 at Alt 67.1°, Azm 70.8°, size 0.53° (http://i1075.photobucket.com/albums/w433/RabDownunder/Moon%20Size/7%20-%2020160519%2022-08%20-%20Moon%20at%20Alt%2071.5deg%20Azm%200.1deg%20%20size%20%200.52deg%20at%20-%201600mm_zpspbya911q.jpg)(7) Date: May 19, 2016 at 22:08 EASTMoon at Alt 71.5°, Azm 0.1°,  size  0.52° (http://i1075.photobucket.com/albums/w433/RabDownunder/Moon%20Size/8%20-%2020160620%2023.38%20-%20Strawberry%20Full%20Moon%20-%20at%20Alt%2080.2deg%20Azm%2023.4deg%20%20size%20%200.52xdeg%20at%20-%201600mm_zpsqs5mb5gp.jpg)(8)Date: June 20, 2016 at 23:38 EASTStrawberry Full Moon - at Alt 80.2°, Azm 23.4°, size  0.52x°

I suppose I did not need to show so many photos, but some are completely unable to accept the most solid evidence!

The moon stays (almost) the same size from rising (well 2.3°) to virtually overhead (at an Altitude of 80.2°).
Title: Re: Flat Earth Proof, popular astronomy debunk: Sun Changes Size
Post by: model 29 on June 28, 2016, 05:48:24 AM
Sun has the biggest shape on just about 12 pm, and others are smaller.

At about 6 seconds when the cars and trees are seen, you can tell the filter isn't dark enough.

I did these with a #14 welding lens.
Approximately noon.
(http://i1368.photobucket.com/albums/ag167/jeffro556/noon_zpswpiyptxz.jpg)

Toward sunset.
(http://i1368.photobucket.com/albums/ag167/jeffro556/sunset_zpsoiwmondc.jpg)

Here they are overlayed.
(http://i1368.photobucket.com/albums/ag167/jeffro556/noon%20and%20sunset3_zpsmy8ulbla.jpg)

Title: Re: Flat Earth Proof, popular astronomy debunk: Sun Changes Size
Post by: Unsure101 on June 28, 2016, 11:01:19 AM
Sun has the biggest shape on just about 12 pm, and others are smaller.

At about 6 seconds when the cars and trees are seen, you can tell the filter isn't dark enough.

I did these with a #14 welding lens.
Approximately noon.
(http://i1368.photobucket.com/albums/ag167/jeffro556/noon_zpswpiyptxz.jpg)

Toward sunset.
(http://i1368.photobucket.com/albums/ag167/jeffro556/sunset_zpsoiwmondc.jpg)

Here they are overlayed.
(http://i1368.photobucket.com/albums/ag167/jeffro556/noon%20and%20sunset3_zpsmy8ulbla.jpg)

Well done, now prepare to be ignored as you have replied to a thread starring the Intikam
Title: Re: Flat Earth Proof, popular astronomy debunk: Sun Changes Size
Post by: Rounder on June 28, 2016, 11:53:50 AM
Well done, now prepare to be ignored as you have replied to a thread starring the Intikam

Model 29 might be ok on this one.  İntikam started the topic and then left without beginning a back and forth dialog with any ONE person.  He therefore should not try the patented "I wasn't talking to you, but you talked to me, ignored, Bye!" thing.

Or Model 29 might make it to the naughty list anyway, since he didn't get permission to speak.
Title: Re: Flat Earth Proof, popular astronomy debunk: Sun Changes Size
Post by: rabinoz on June 28, 2016, 12:09:54 PM
Well done, now prepare to be ignored as you have replied to a thread starring the Intikam

Model 29 might be ok on this one.  İntikam started the topic and then left without beginning a back and forth dialog with any ONE person.  He therefore should not try the patented "I wasn't talking to you, but you talked to me, ignored, Bye!" thing.

Or Model 29 might make it to the naughty list anyway, since he didn't get permission to speak.
How do we do it? Would raising a hand and asking "Permission to speak Sir!"
Title: Re: Flat Earth Proof, popular astronomy debunk: Sun Changes Size
Post by: Unsure101 on June 28, 2016, 12:15:40 PM
Well done, now prepare to be ignored as you have replied to a thread starring the Intikam

Model 29 might be ok on this one.  İntikam started the topic and then left without beginning a back and forth dialog with any ONE person.  He therefore should not try the patented "I wasn't talking to you, but you talked to me, ignored, Bye!" thing.

Or Model 29 might make it to the naughty list anyway, since he didn't get permission to speak.
How do we do it? Would raising a hand and asking "Permission to speak Sir!"
Permission denied, you are ignored!
Title: Re: Flat Earth Proof, popular astronomy debunk: Sun Changes Size
Post by: rabinoz on June 28, 2016, 01:17:59 PM
:-[ :-[ :-[ Boo, Hoo, guess I'll have to live with it!  ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Flat Earth Proof, popular astronomy debunk: Sun Changes Size
Post by: Rounder on June 29, 2016, 04:59:30 AM
I've been un-blocked   :'(  We'll see how long this lasts, I have no intention of changing my behaviour to suit anyone's artificial private 'rules' for forum conduct.
Title: Re: Flat Earth Proof, popular astronomy debunk: Sun Changes Size
Post by: rabinoz on June 29, 2016, 06:26:40 AM
I've been un-blocked   :'(  We'll see how long this lasts, I have no intention of changing my behaviour to suit anyone's artificial private 'rules' for forum conduct.
Yes, but you got unblocked because of " ;) respect for your great age ;)". I wonder what "in the Sam Hill" he thinks my age is! He should "bow and scrape!"
Let's just say that Russia gave me an exciting 20th birthday present (well it was 10:29 p.m. Moscow time - here was actually the day after). You can join the dots!
Title: Re: Flat Earth Proof, popular astronomy debunk: Sun Changes Size
Post by: Jura-Glenlivet on June 29, 2016, 09:55:52 AM

Well that isn't fair! My 20th birthday present was from Queen Victoria. And how come I got moved out of the respect category, which was introduced for me (giving me delusions of grandeur) and moved into Rabs' section which is crowded and a bit smelly?
Title: Re: Flat Earth Proof, popular astronomy debunk: Sun Changes Size
Post by: rabinoz on June 29, 2016, 11:50:56 AM

Well that isn't fair! My 20th birthday present was from Queen Victoria. And how come I got moved out of the respect category, which was introduced for me (giving me delusions of grandeur) and moved into Rabs' section which is crowded and a bit smelly?
Well Rounder got moved out on account of his (supposed) great age!
So maybe you can claim some special special status - like your high moral values do not allow you to associate with such low born creatures.

Not even having Sputnik I launched on my birthday gave me delusions of grandeur, so having a "20th birthday present" "from Queen Victoria" makes you one up on me I guess.
Besides I don't think the Russians knew I existed - at least I hope not as it was only a bit over 3 years after the Петров дело[1] (http://petrov.moadoph.gov.au/) and I might have been accused too!

[]1 If, like me, you don't read Russian, just go to the RED link and read all the gory details.
Title: Re: Flat Earth Proof, popular astronomy debunk: Sun Changes Size
Post by: Rounder on June 29, 2016, 12:26:05 PM
I only lasted for a single reply before going right back "...to place where you deserved and accustomed."  Apparently, one of the rules is 'only talk about what Inti is talking about, nothing else'  He just doesn't want to debate, in the DEBATE forum.  What a juvenile attitude.

It's good to be back!
Title: Re: Flat Earth Proof, popular astronomy debunk: Sun Changes Size
Post by: Rounder on June 29, 2016, 04:44:32 PM
Hey Rabinoz, I just noticed this: not only are you and I at the top of the naughty list, we are both SO naughty that we've been stripped of our vowels on his list!

This keeps getting better and better!  Are there any round earthers who still get to talk to Intikam?  Or are we all in the Anti-Inti Army?