The Flat Earth Society
Flat Earth Discussion Boards => Flat Earth Theory => Topic started by: Tom_Smith on September 18, 2018, 02:31:35 PM
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I have asked this several times and nobody has answered me. If I truly want to believe the earth is flat, I would like to know what's over the ice wall. You guys say it is only 150 ft tall yet nobody has been over it yet, even though we have climbed things like Mount Everest. So you're saying if I go to Antarctica and walk straight south I won't come up on the other side of the earth facing north? How has nobody discovered this yet if there are research facilities in both the north and south pole? This is a legit question, i am curious what you guys are thinking.
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I have asked this several times and nobody has answered me. If I truly want to believe the earth is flat, I would like to know what's over the ice wall.
If you believe in an ice wall model then what's over the ice wall depends on what ice wall flat earth model you believe in. In those models that have an ice wall will respond in one of many ways.
-Space is over the ice wall
-Heaven is over the ice wall
-the firmament is over the ice wall
-the dome is over the ice wall
-no one knows what's over the ice wall
-you can't climb over the ice wall
Many flat earth models don't believe in an ice wall. The flat earth model that I most relate to is that the earth is an infinitely repeating plane with no ice wall.
So you're saying if I go to Antarctica and walk straight south I won't come up on the other side of the earth facing north?
Again this depends on your flat earth model. In an infinitely repeating flat plane model if you went to Antarctica and walked south you would end up on the other side of the infinitely repeating flat plane facing north.
Some models would say that it's impossible to walk south from antartica
Some models will say that Antarctica does not exist
How has nobody discovered this yet if there are research facilities in both the north and south pole? This is a legit question, i am curious what you guys are thinking.
Again the answers varies. The research facilites set up on the poles were set up with round earth equipment and devices using round earth systems so they are only able to show the earth is round.
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I have asked this several times and nobody has answered me. If I truly want to believe the earth is flat, I would like to know what's over the ice wall.
If you believe in an ice wall model then what's over the ice wall depends on what ice wall flat earth model you believe in. In those models that have an ice wall will respond in one of many ways.
-Space is over the ice wall
-Heaven is over the ice wall
-the firmament is over the ice wall
-the dome is over the ice wall
-no one knows what's over the ice wall
-you can't climb over the ice wall
Many flat earth models don't believe in an ice wall. The flat earth model that I most relate to is that the earth is an infinitely repeating plane with no ice wall.
So you're saying if I go to Antarctica and walk straight south I won't come up on the other side of the earth facing north?
Again this depends on your flat earth model. In an infinitely repeating flat plane model if you went to Antarctica and walked south you would end up on the other side of the infinitely repeating flat plane facing north.
Some models would say that it's impossible to walk south from antartica
Some models will say that Antarctica does not exist
How has nobody discovered this yet if there are research facilities in both the north and south pole? This is a legit question, i am curious what you guys are thinking.
Again the answers varies. The research facilites set up on the poles were set up with round earth equipment and devices using round earth systems so they are only able to show the earth is round.
What I say is that beyond ice barrier is believed to be the outside of the dome. But the real question is what's beyond the dome?
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Again the answers varies. The research facilites set up on the poles were set up with round earth equipment and devices using round earth systems so they are only able to show the earth is round.
Can you go into a little bit more detail as to what a "round earth device" is?
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I think my only question is why are there so many theories in Flat Earth theory? It seems that there should only be one accepted model. You know, just like there is with round Earth Theory. It seems that the multiplicity of theories is a weakness of Flat Earth theory, because no one can really decide on what they believe. It's always been a question I had. And I am not trying to be insulting here, just curious. Does the ice wall exist or not? And if it does what is beyond it? And if it does can we get above it? Can we climb over it? Can we get around it in some way? And if not, why not?
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I don't think anyone knows whats beyond the ice wall, because no one is allowed in Antartica, without being heavily monitored. I think that because the government doesn't want anyone to see past it, and it's still all part of NASA's plan. Almost every country has agreed not to explore Antartica, so I think other people are in on this, too. We have no proof that there is a dome, or that the earth is flat, or that there's a heaven or a hell, so it just really matters what you believe.
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I have a hard time believing that somebody would not have gotten there by now. I don't care how heavily monitored a place is, some human is crazy enough and logical enough to get past whatever monitors there are and survive to tell the tale. It just seems very hard to believe that no one has made the attempt. And NASA couldn't hide itself if it wanted to. It has a hard time hiding anything in a wet paper bag. I mean look I don't know. The US government can't seem to hide anything. Look at Snowden as a perfect example. I mean look, I don't know. Maybe the Earth is flat. That is why I'm here. But it just seems that if the Earth were flat, somebody would have figured that out definitively by now.
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Almost every country has agreed not to explore Antartica......
Then why the Antarctic treaty especially protects freedom of scientific investigation?
Some important provisions of the Treaty:
Antarctica shall be used for peaceful purposes only (Art. I)
Freedom of scientific investigation in Antarctica and cooperation toward that end … shall continue (Art. II).
Scientific observations and results from Antarctica shall be exchanged and made freely available (Art. III).
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Again the answers varies. The research facilites set up on the poles were set up with round earth equipment and devices using round earth systems so they are only able to show the earth is round.
Can you go into a little bit more detail as to what a "round earth device" is?
A device which was specifically designed and calibrated to show the earth is round or to weaken a specific flat earth model.
For example if you believe in a flat earth model in which the distance between Australia and south america is three times longer than the distance between US and China and someone measures those distances and the measuring device they use shows that is not true then the claim is made that the measuring device was calibrated to alter the true distances.
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I think my only question is why are there so many theories in Flat Earth theory? It seems that there should only be one accepted model. You know, just like there is with round Earth Theory. It seems that the multiplicity of theories is a weakness of Flat Earth theory, because no one can really decide on what they believe. It's always been a question I had.
The problem is that many models can fit many things that we see or observe or experience every day but never all of them. Flight times, shipping times, gravity, full moons, lunar eclipses, sunsets etc. The best model I've found is the infinite repeating plane model but it's not a very popular one.
And I am not trying to be insulting here, just curious. Does the ice wall exist or not? And if it does what is beyond it? And if it does can we get above it? Can we climb over it? Can we get around it in some way? And if not, why not?
If the ice wall exists or not depends on the flat earth model. I chose to follow the infinite repeating plane with no ice wall, no dome, and no firmament.
If an ice wall does exists what is beyond it depends on the flat earth model as previously stated in this thread.
-heaven
-firmament
-dome
-space
-infinite plane
-nothing
-waters above
-no one knows because no one has ever been there
If you can get above/over/around the ice wall depends on the flat earth model.
-no because it's outside of the dome
-no because it's outside of the firmament
-no because of the waters above
-no because it's guarded/protected
-yes many people have been above/over/around the ice wall
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A device which was specifically designed and calibrated to show the earth is round or to weaken a specific flat earth model.
Is it your claim that research facilities are established on Antarctica expressly to use devices that attempt to weaken the flat earth model? I can do that with my mobile phone right here in a far less harsh environment than the south pole.
For example if you believe in a flat earth model in which the distance between Australia and south america is three times longer than the distance between US and China and someone measures those distances and the measuring device they use shows that is not true then the claim is made that the measuring device was calibrated to alter the true distances.
So sailors 100 years ago used navigation devices that were calibrated to alter the true distances?
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A device which was specifically designed and calibrated to show the earth is round or to weaken a specific flat earth model.
Is it your claim that research facilities are established on Antarctica expressly to use devices that attempt to weaken the flat earth model? I can do that with my mobile phone right here in a far less harsh environment than the south pole.
For example if you believe in a flat earth model in which the distance between Australia and south america is three times longer than the distance between US and China and someone measures those distances and the measuring device they use shows that is not true then the claim is made that the measuring device was calibrated to alter the true distances.
So sailors 100 years ago used navigation devices that were calibrated to alter the true distances?
That is a legitimate question. Captain James Cook discovered both Hawaii and Australia. His ship made it back to England, though I think he died on the way. Was he, in the late 1700's, using devices calibrated to hide the truth of Flat Earth?
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Is it your claim that research facilities are established on Antarctica expressly to use devices that attempt to weaken the flat earth model?
No. I adhere to an infinite repeating plane flat earth model which reconciles with measuring devices. I don't believe there are specific "round earth devices and systems" that are common with many other flat earth models.
For those who do not adhere to the infinite repeating plane model you will find some people who will say that yes, research facilities are established on Antarctica expressly to use devices that attempt to weaken some of the flat earth models.
So sailors 100 years ago used navigation devices that were calibrated to alter the true distances?
in my infinite repeating plane flat earth model travel times, shipping times, navigation, surveying, and cartography all reconcile with the round earth model so I don't believe this.
Many other flat earth models have a hard time reconciling with known shipping/travel times, navigation, surveying and cartography.
Some of the followers of those specific flat earth models would say that yes, navigation devices were calibrated to alter the true distances.
Some claim that shipping/travel times, navigation paths which don't reconcile simply don't exist.
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in my infinite repeating plane flat earth model travel times, shipping times, navigation, surveying, and cartography all reconcile with the round earth model so I don't believe this.
By 'repeating', do you mean 'duplicates'? As in, if you travel due south from the southern tip of Argentina, cross over Antarctica, you would continue north passing by Australia, but that Australia is a repeated duplicate and so on?
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No. I adhere to an infinite repeating plane flat earth model which reconciles with measuring devices. I don't believe there are specific "round earth devices and systems" that are common with many other flat earth models.
For those who do not adhere to the infinite repeating plane model you will find some people who will say that yes, research facilities are established on Antarctica expressly to use devices that attempt to weaken some of the flat earth models.
in my infinite repeating plane flat earth model travel times, shipping times, navigation, surveying, and cartography all reconcile with the round earth model so I don't believe this.
Many other flat earth models have a hard time reconciling with known shipping/travel times, navigation, surveying and cartography.
Some of the followers of those specific flat earth models would say that yes, navigation devices were calibrated to alter the true distances.
Some claim that shipping/travel times, navigation paths which don't reconcile simply don't exist.
I've searched around the forums for more info on the infinite repeating planes model but haven't found a posting that sums it all up tightly. Is this the model with the 'Pac Man Effect' where leaving one edge of the plane puts you on a corresponding point on the other side?
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I don't think anyone knows whats beyond the ice wall, because no one is allowed in Antartica, without being heavily monitored. I think that because the government doesn't want anyone to see past it, and it's still all part of NASA's plan. Almost every country has agreed not to explore Antartica, so I think other people are in on this, too. We have no proof that there is a dome, or that the earth is flat, or that there's a heaven or a hell, so it just really matters what you believe.
You say "no one is allowed in Antartica" and "Almost every country has agreed not to explore Antartica". This is a high claim. Where do you find support of this?
In case you are thinking about the Antarctic treaty, please make sure you read it before making a claim about it. It's not long. You can find it on the Antarctic Treaty web site: https://www.ats.aq
Or, just right to the treaty: https://www.ats.aq/documents/keydocs/vol_1/vol1_2_AT_Antarctic_Treaty_e.pdf
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I've searched around the forums for more info on the infinite repeating planes model but haven't found a posting that sums it all up tightly. Is this the model with the 'Pac Man Effect' where leaving one edge of the plane puts you on a corresponding point on the other side?
Yeah.
I can start out at america and go west and wind up in china and I can also start in america and swipe east and wind up in china.
Kind of like in pac man you can go west and wind up on the east side and you can go east and wind up on the east side.
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I can start out at america and go west and wind up in china and I can also start in america and swipe east and wind up in china.
Kind of like in pac man you can go west and wind up on the east side and you can go east and wind up on the east side.
So, is it the same China you reach going west as it would be going east, or are you on a different 'world' on this infinitely repeating plain?
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So, is it the same China you reach going west as it would be going east, or are you on a different 'world' on this infinitely repeating plain?
It's the same china. If I leave America and head east and head to Bejing and my twin leaves America heading west we would both arrive at the same Bejing.
It's the only way I've been able to reconcile real life observations, experiences, and measurements to a flat earth model (without making claims like no map of the earth exist or flight times are fake). Specifically about travel times, navigation, shipping times, and cartography.
Why is it that I've traveled extensively and never seen an edge? Or an army of boats guarding an edge? Maybe there is no "edge".
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So, is it the same China you reach going west as it would be going east, or are you on a different 'world' on this infinitely repeating plain?
It's the same china. If I leave America and head east and head to Bejing and my twin leaves America heading west we would both arrive at the same Bejing.
It's the only way I've been able to reconcile real life observations, experiences, and measurements to a flat earth model (without making claims like no map of the earth exist or flight times are fake). Specifically about travel times, navigation, shipping times, and cartography.
Why is it that I've traveled extensively and never seen an edge? Or an army of boats guarding an edge? Maybe there is no "edge".
Is there a map style you prefer for the explored portion of the world? AE or bi-polar? Something else?
I've watched the presentation from Daz Nez, linked below. He was attempting to resolve problems and proposed a diamond shaped model. This doesn't have an edge or a fleet of ships guarding an ice wall. Do you have something like this in mind?
https://youtu.be/WlU9khadYTQ?t=1h6m56s
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Why is it that I've traveled extensively and never seen an edge? Or an army of boats guarding an edge? Maybe there is no "edge".
In an attempt to answer your questions, perhaps a slim possibility, but maybe the earth is a globe.
Literally millions of people, myself included, have traveled to parts of the world where in your model, some sort of teleportation would need to have occurred. I guess the argument would be that this teleportation would be seamless, completely un-observable. So, in short, I can only gather that your model belief is faith based and not science/in real life based. Is that an accurate statement?
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Why is it that I've traveled extensively and never seen an edge? Or an army of boats guarding an edge? Maybe there is no "edge".
In an attempt to answer your questions, perhaps a slim possibility, but maybe the earth is a globe.
Literally millions of people, myself included, have traveled to parts of the world where in your model, some sort of teleportation would need to have occurred. I guess the argument would be that this teleportation would be seamless, completely un-observable. So, in short, I can only gather that your model belief is faith based and not science/in real life based. Is that an accurate statement?
It's not teleportation. It's like an omnidirectional treadmill. My model is based on real life measurements, navigation, observations and experiences. If a theory based on measurements, observations, cartography, navigation and experiences (not only of myself but millions and millions of people) is "faith" based then what is considered a model that is not "faith" based
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Is there a map style you prefer for the explored portion of the world? AE or bi-polar? Something else?
There are many flat earthers who believe things like "No accurate map of the earth exists" or "the distance between new york and paris is unknown". I 100% disagree with this. I believe there are accurate maps of the earth.
Google maps used to have the earth mapped in two different ways.
1. As a sphere.
2. As an infinite omnidrectional flat plane
Google maps provides a TON of evidence supporting their claims for distances and measurements. I have personally driven around North America and South America and corroborated a significant sample of these these distances and measurements to be pretty accurate. So the on the infinite flat plane map the map could be both flat and accurate.
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It's not teleportation. It's like an omnidirectional treadmill. My model is based on real life measurements, navigation, observations and experiences.
How do your real life measurements, navigation, observations and experiences manifest into an 'omnidirectional treadmill'?
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There are many flat earthers who believe things like "No accurate map of the earth exists" or "the distance between new york and paris is unknown". I 100% disagree with this. I believe there are accurate maps of the earth.
... accurate maps of a globe earth. Google maps gives all positions in spherical coordinates. With these coordinates it's an easy job - with spherical trigonometry - to calculate the distance.
Google maps used to have the earth mapped in two different ways.
1. As a sphere.
2. As an infinite omnidrectional flat plane
Number 2) is a Mercator Projection of a Globe. Don't know what you exactly mean by "omnidirectional", but North and South Pole on the Mercator map are [math] singularities. These ends are "undefined".
Didn't you notice, that on large scale Google maps (e.g. overview of total world) the scale is changing within the map?
(which e.g. lets Greenland appear as big as Africa)
If earth were flat, there would be no need for a projection like Mercator and no need, to vary map scale within the same map.
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It's not teleportation. It's like an omnidirectional treadmill. My model is based on real life measurements, navigation, observations and experiences.
How do your real life measurements, navigation, observations and experiences manifest into an 'omnidirectional treadmill'?
Here is the flat earth Model that I believe in:
http://earth3dmap.com/
At any glance anyone can see this and see that this is a map of the earth corroborated by hundreds of thousands of people traveling between these locations, shipping goods between these locations. As well as by modern navigation and cartography systems. Notice when i start at America and drag the map west. I arrive back and America. Is this a different America than the one I started at? No. It's the same one. Go ahead and drag the map west 293857298375 times. Notice how the plane repeats an infinite number of times and you always arrive back at America?
Here is an example. Measurements, navigation, observations, travel times, shipping times, and experiences do not support the flat earth model in the image on my post about flight times:
A simple internet search will show the distance between Santiago and Sydney is about 7,000 miles.
(about a 14 hour flight)
The distance between LA and Sydney is about 7,500 miles.
(about a 15 hour flight)
These rough distances and travel times have been corroborated by hundreds of thousands of people traveling between these locations, shipping goods between these locations. As well as by modern navigation and cartography systems.
This flat earth model can't possibly be correct without saying that travel times, shipping times, cartography, and navigation systems are all wrong or are all producing fake data.
You can clearly see that travel and shipping times between LA/Sydney should be MUCH LESS than the travel/shipping times between Santiago/Sydney which is a dramatic conflict between Measurements, navigation, observations, travel times, shipping times, and experiences by hundreds of thousands of people.
(https://i.imgur.com/z8oAcaB.png)
https://forum.tfes.org/index.php?topic=9213.0
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It's not teleportation. It's like an omnidirectional treadmill. My model is based on real life measurements, navigation, observations and experiences.
How do your real life measurements, navigation, observations and experiences manifest into an 'omnidirectional treadmill'?
Here is the flat earth Model that I believe in:
http://earth3dmap.com/
In this model, what happens if I fly due north up and over the pole?
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It's not teleportation. It's like an omnidirectional treadmill. My model is based on real life measurements, navigation, observations and experiences.
How do your real life measurements, navigation, observations and experiences manifest into an 'omnidirectional treadmill'?
Here is the flat earth Model that I believe in:
http://earth3dmap.com/
In this model, what happens if I fly due north up and over the pole?
The exact same that that we have observed to happen. You would travel due north. Reach the north pole then no matter where you go would be considered south.
as a rough approximation you went north from Greenland you would reach the north pole then be heading south into Russia.
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The exact same that that we have observed to happen. You would travel due north. Reach the north pole then no matter where you go would be considered south.
as a rough approximation you went north from Greenland you would reach the north pole then be heading south into Russia.
A couple of thoughts. If it's the same thing that is observed to happen then why can't the earth just be a globe? Seems like a simpler solution. Why does it have to be flat and have some unexplained mechanism for omnidirectional treadmill like movement? At a minimum, we can readily explain globe travel, everything is calculated around the idea. Take for example, an NYC to Hong Kong flight. On your flat map, it would fly in a straight line. On a globe, it flies via a great circle route, b/c that's shorter, faster, less fuel consumption, cheaper meaning higher profit. Here's one from a couple of days ago. See what I mean?
(https://i.imgur.com/KW1dt1i.png)
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The flat earth model that I most relate to is that the earth is an infinitely repeating plane with no ice wall.
Would you say then that an infinitely repeating plane has an infinite diameter? What is your view on gravity in this model?
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I believe that beyond the ice wall there is vast amounts of alternate realities ???
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It's not teleportation. It's like an omnidirectional treadmill. My model is based on real life measurements, navigation, observations and experiences.
How do your real life measurements, navigation, observations and experiences manifest into an 'omnidirectional treadmill'?
Here is the flat earth Model that I believe in:
http://earth3dmap.com/
That map is not accurate. Greenland is too wide, getting more exaggerated farther north. The same for other northern and southern elements.
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I believe that beyond the ice wall there is vast amounts of alternate realities ???
Based on your username, I am going to go ahead and assume you are being disingenuous.
Do me a favor and refrain from low-content posting in the upper fora. Warned.
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I believe that beyond the ice wall there is vast amounts of alternate realities ???
Based on your username, I am going to go ahead and assume you are being disingenuous.
Do me a favor and refrain from low-content posting in the upper fora. Warned.
Genuine Question....
Why is: "What I say is that beyond ice barrier is believed to be the outside of the dome."
ok to post, but the posting:
"I believe that beyond the ice wall there is vast amounts of alternate realities"
is considered a low content posting. Is it about the username?
I was thinking posting some ideas about the wall but didn't want to jeopardize my perfect record of no warnings (only sent to lower foras once.)
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It's not teleportation. It's like an omnidirectional treadmill. My model is based on real life measurements, navigation, observations and experiences.
How do your real life measurements, navigation, observations and experiences manifest into an 'omnidirectional treadmill'?
Here is the flat earth Model that I believe in:
http://earth3dmap.com/
At any glance anyone can see this and see that this is a map of the earth corroborated by hundreds of thousands of people traveling between these locations, shipping goods between these locations. As well as by modern navigation and cartography systems. Notice when i start at America and drag the map west. I arrive back and America. Is this a different America than the one I started at? No. It's the same one. Go ahead and drag the map west 293857298375 times. Notice how the plane repeats an infinite number of times and you always arrive back at America?
Here is an example. Measurements, navigation, observations, travel times, shipping times, and experiences do not support the flat earth model in the image on my post about flight times:
A simple internet search will show the distance between Santiago and Sydney is about 7,000 miles.
(about a 14 hour flight)
The distance between LA and Sydney is about 7,500 miles.
(about a 15 hour flight)
These rough distances and travel times have been corroborated by hundreds of thousands of people traveling between these locations, shipping goods between these locations. As well as by modern navigation and cartography systems.
This flat earth model can't possibly be correct without saying that travel times, shipping times, cartography, and navigation systems are all wrong or are all producing fake data.
You can clearly see that travel and shipping times between LA/Sydney should be MUCH LESS than the travel/shipping times between Santiago/Sydney which is a dramatic conflict between Measurements, navigation, observations, travel times, shipping times, and experiences by hundreds of thousands of people.
https://forum.tfes.org/index.php?topic=9213.0
I like what you're saying here. The AE map and variants don't work unless there's a huge quantity of people lying about all sorts of things.
The flat map of the earth from earth3dmap.com doesn't either if it were an accurate representation of a flat earth. Flights don't take straight paths on this map either. Long flights that are sufficiently north-north or south-south make huge curves. These curves take significantly longer, thus more fuel, more expense.
See the post by Bad Puppy or here's post on Eugene Kaspersky's blog talking about his flight:
ttps://eugene.kaspersky.com/2015/09/09/the-santiago-sydney-antarctic-smile-qf28/
Here's the flight path:
(https://media.kasperskycontenthub.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/67/2015/09/10061235/Santiago%E2%80%93Sydney_19.jpg)
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Genuine Question....
Why is: "What I say is that beyond ice barrier is believed to be the outside of the dome."
ok to post, but the posting:
"I believe that beyond the ice wall there is vast amounts of alternate realities"
is considered a low content posting. Is it about the username?
I was thinking posting some ideas about the wall but didn't want to jeopardize my perfect record of no warnings (only sent to lower foras once.)
Purely based on a new user with a username that indicates they aren't actually interested in FET (and also based their one other post). I would be surprised if said user ever comes back (as we get a lot of 'drivebys'). If someone genuinely held this belief, then it would be open for debate/discussion and that person could defend it as long as they do so in good faith. Most of your posts seem to be somewhat sincere, so you won't have an issue as long as you follow the rules.
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It's not teleportation. It's like an omnidirectional treadmill. My model is based on real life measurements, navigation, observations and experiences.
How do your real life measurements, navigation, observations and experiences manifest into an 'omnidirectional treadmill'?
Here is the flat earth Model that I believe in:
http://earth3dmap.com/
At any glance anyone can see this and see that this is a map of the earth corroborated by hundreds of thousands of people traveling between these locations, shipping goods between these locations. As well as by modern navigation and cartography systems. Notice when i start at America and drag the map west. I arrive back and America. Is this a different America than the one I started at? No. It's the same one. Go ahead and drag the map west 293857298375 times. Notice how the plane repeats an infinite number of times and you always arrive back at America?
Here is an example. Measurements, navigation, observations, travel times, shipping times, and experiences do not support the flat earth model in the image on my post about flight times:
A simple internet search will show the distance between Santiago and Sydney is about 7,000 miles.
(about a 14 hour flight)
The distance between LA and Sydney is about 7,500 miles.
(about a 15 hour flight)
These rough distances and travel times have been corroborated by hundreds of thousands of people traveling between these locations, shipping goods between these locations. As well as by modern navigation and cartography systems.
This flat earth model can't possibly be correct without saying that travel times, shipping times, cartography, and navigation systems are all wrong or are all producing fake data.
You can clearly see that travel and shipping times between LA/Sydney should be MUCH LESS than the travel/shipping times between Santiago/Sydney which is a dramatic conflict between Measurements, navigation, observations, travel times, shipping times, and experiences by hundreds of thousands of people.
https://forum.tfes.org/index.php?topic=9213.0
I like what you're saying here. The AE map and variants don't work unless there's a huge quantity of people lying about all sorts of things.
The flat map of the earth from earth3dmap.com doesn't either if it were an accurate representation of a flat earth. Flights don't take straight paths on this map either. Long flights that are sufficiently north-north or south-south make huge curves. These curves take significantly longer, thus more fuel, more expense.
See the post by Bad Puppy or here's post on Eugene Kaspersky's blog talking about his flight:
ttps://eugene.kaspersky.com/2015/09/09/the-santiago-sydney-antarctic-smile-qf28/
Here's the flight path:
(https://media.kasperskycontenthub.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/67/2015/09/10061235/Santiago%E2%80%93Sydney_19.jpg)
To add on to the map presented on earth3dmap.com, you will find the sam distance problems as in the flights between Sydney and Santiago and LA and Sydney. These will be more difficult to find as there are not many flights between Etah
Greenland and Komsomolets Island in Russia so fewer people to corroborate the distance. However, I'll give an example of how the scale doesn't work.
Etah Greenland is very closely directly north of Boston, MA. Boston, is about 42 degrees north.
Komsomolets Island is very closely directly north of Hami Xinjiang, China. Hami is about 42.5 degrees north.
Etah Greenland: 78°18′50″N 72°36′35″W
Komsomolets Island: 80°29′03″N 94°59′47″E
Boston, MA: 42°21′29″N 71°03′49″W
Hami Xinjiang, China: 42°50′19″N 93°30′15″E
We have two pairs of locations that are approximately the same distance apart on the map displayed on earth3dmap.com
Google maps gives a distance from Etah Greenland to Komsomolets Island of about 1,472 miles great circle, 2,076 miles when I manually add points to mostly follow the lattitude.
Google maps gives a distance from Boston to Hami of about 6,471 miles great circle route, 8,500 miles miles when I manually add points to mostly follow the lattitude.
The map on earth3dmap.com gives a greatly distorted map the farther north and south you go. It's just a projection of a globe onto a flat map, this does not this reflect reality.
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Is there a map style you prefer for the explored portion of the world? AE or bi-polar? Something else?
One like this kinda:
http://earth3dmap.com/
Because of it's ability to kind of show my idea of an infinite repeating plane.
Google maps was the best at this but they switched from a flat plane 2d view to a globe view.
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Is there a map style you prefer for the explored portion of the world? AE or bi-polar? Something else?
One like this kinda:
http://earth3dmap.com/
Because of it's ability to kind of show my idea of an infinite repeating plane.
Google maps was the best at this but they switched from a flat plane 2d view to a globe view.
This view still introduces a host of issues. Repeating continents means that I am standing on an infinite number of North Americas at the same time? Are there an infinite number of moons and suns? If I fly west to Australia and you fly east to Australia are we on the same Australia? If so, what are the mechanics that make this work?
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Is there a map style you prefer for the explored portion of the world? AE or bi-polar? Something else?
One like this kinda:
http://earth3dmap.com/
Because of it's ability to kind of show my idea of an infinite repeating plane.
Google maps was the best at this but they switched from a flat plane 2d view to a globe view.
Could you have a look at my post detailing the distance pair between two location at similar longitudes but different latitudes? I welcome your response.
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My mind is blown. Is this whole forum a joke that has gone too far? ???
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My mind is blown. Is this whole forum a joke that has gone too far? ???
I actually understand how your mind is blown. It makes perfect sense. The idea that the Earth is flat is a little unusual to say the least. I of course believe in a round Earth. But I will tell you for certain this forum is real, it is not a joke, and people do believe the Earth is flat. There is also another forum that holds the same belief. I am a member of both. Do not think for one moment that this forum is a joke. They are dead serious about this. I think that is what makes it so interesting. That is why I am a member. The fact that people actually believe this completely blows my mind as well. But, what can you do? It is what it is.
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My mind is blown. Is this whole forum a joke that has gone too far? ???
I actually understand how your mind is blown. It makes perfect sense. The idea that the Earth is flat is a little unusual to say the least. I of course believe in a round Earth. But I will tell you for certain this forum is real, it is not a joke, and people do believe the Earth is flat. There is also another forum that holds the same belief. I am a member of both. Do not think for one moment that this forum is a joke. They are dead serious about this. I think that is what makes it so interesting. That is why I am a member. The fact that people actually believe this completely blows my mind as well. But, what can you do? It is what it is.
I get that. I just find it so crazy. I googled it as a joke but can't believe how serious they are.
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My mind is blown. Is this whole forum a joke that has gone too far? ???
I actually understand how your mind is blown. It makes perfect sense. The idea that the Earth is flat is a little unusual to say the least. I of course believe in a round Earth. But I will tell you for certain this forum is real, it is not a joke, and people do believe the Earth is flat. There is also another forum that holds the same belief. I am a member of both. Do not think for one moment that this forum is a joke. They are dead serious about this. I think that is what makes it so interesting. That is why I am a member. The fact that people actually believe this completely blows my mind as well. But, what can you do? It is what it is.
I get that. I just find it so crazy. I googled it as a joke but can't believe how serious they are.
I find it interesting on a sociological level. I am a member of both forums in order to understand the sociological aspect of human interaction. The fact that they believe in a flat Earth does not change the fact that they are people and that they sociologically interact with other people. I find human interaction to be fascinating. And so watching people argue and debate things regardless of what they may be really makes me interested. I simply observe, and put in comments where it appears necessary. I have enjoyed my time on both forums, and other forums as well.
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It's not teleportation. It's like an omnidirectional treadmill. My model is based on real life measurements, navigation, observations and experiences.
How do your real life measurements, navigation, observations and experiences manifest into an 'omnidirectional treadmill'?
Here is the flat earth Model that I believe in:
http://earth3dmap.com/
That map is not accurate. Greenland is too wide, getting more exaggerated farther north. The same for other northern and southern elements.
Well you can't see the scale on that map. The scale of the map changes depending on how far from the equator you go. When google maps had a 2d version of their map it was like this and, when you zoomed in on greenland, the scale changed.
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It's not teleportation. It's like an omnidirectional treadmill. My model is based on real life measurements, navigation, observations and experiences.
How do your real life measurements, navigation, observations and experiences manifest into an 'omnidirectional treadmill'?
Here is the flat earth Model that I believe in:
http://earth3dmap.com/
That map is not accurate. Greenland is too wide, getting more exaggerated farther north. The same for other northern and southern elements.
Well you can't see the scale on that map. The scale of the map changes depending on how far from the equator you go. When google maps had a 2d version of their map it was like this and, when you zoomed in on greenland, the scale changed.
I agree, and that is the problem. A flat map of the flat earth will not suffer from these types of distortions. Similarly, a spherical map of a spherical earth will not suffer from these types of distortions.
This map is not an accurate map of the flat earth.
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This map is not an accurate map of the flat earth.
It could be made into 100% accurate map of the flat infinite repeating plane model if it had a sliding scale based on distance from the equator.
I used a flat earth map with a scale which changes based on distance from the equator because it showed a general concept of an infinite repeating plane and also aligned with traditional directions.
This flat earth map is more accurate but it's not aligned with traditional directions and does not accurately depict the infinite repeating plane.
(https://static.independent.co.uk/s3fs-public/styles/story_large/public/thumbnails/image/2016/11/03/15/authagraph.png)
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This map is not an accurate map of the flat earth.
It could be made into 100% accurate map of the flat infinite repeating plane model if it had a sliding scale based on distance from the equator.
That would not make it an accurate flat map of the flat earth. An accurate flat map of the flat earth requires a consistent scale, otherwise it is distorted.
I used a flat earth map with a scale which changes based on distance from the equator because it showed a general concept of an infinite repeating plane and also aligned with traditional directions.
This flat earth map is more accurate but it's not aligned with traditional directions and does not accurately depict the infinite repeating plane.
(https://static.independent.co.uk/s3fs-public/styles/story_large/public/thumbnails/image/2016/11/03/15/authagraph.png)
That's doesn't reflect reality either. If you go straight south from Australia or Africa in reality you arrive at Antarctica*. A flat map of the flat earth must reflect reality.
A flat map of a spherical object is predictably distorted. If the earth is flat, a flat map is easy and it is trivially not-distorted. Distortions show it's not accurate.
* No, I will not be presenting documentation of this claim.
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To add on to the map presented on earth3dmap.com, you will find the sam distance problems as in the flights between Sydney and Santiago and LA and Sydney. These will be more difficult to find as there are not many flights between Etah
Greenland and Komsomolets Island in Russia so fewer people to corroborate the distance. However, I'll give an example of how the scale doesn't work.
Etah Greenland is very closely directly north of Boston, MA. Boston, is about 42 degrees north.
Komsomolets Island is very closely directly north of Hami Xinjiang, China. Hami is about 42.5 degrees north.
Etah Greenland: 78°18′50″N 72°36′35″W
Komsomolets Island: 80°29′03″N 94°59′47″E
Boston, MA: 42°21′29″N 71°03′49″W
Hami Xinjiang, China: 42°50′19″N 93°30′15″E
We have two pairs of locations that are approximately the same distance apart on the map displayed on earth3dmap.com
Google maps gives a distance from Etah Greenland to Komsomolets Island of about 1,472 miles great circle, 2,076 miles when I manually add points to mostly follow the lattitude.
Google maps gives a distance from Boston to Hami of about 6,471 miles great circle route, 8,500 miles miles when I manually add points to mostly follow the lattitude.
The map on earth3dmap.com gives a greatly distorted map the farther north and south you go. It's just a projection of a globe onto a flat map, this does not this reflect reality.
Just because the scale of the map changes the further away from the equator you go does not make the map any less accurate or viable. Sorry that concept map is not as interactive as it should be. When google maps had an infinite repeating plane model the distances did work even when traveling around the north/south pole.
Here is another one that has a scale showing the scale when you zoom in on the north.
https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=1/85/-26
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To add on to the map presented on earth3dmap.com, you will find the sam distance problems as in the flights between Sydney and Santiago and LA and Sydney. These will be more difficult to find as there are not many flights between Etah
Greenland and Komsomolets Island in Russia so fewer people to corroborate the distance. However, I'll give an example of how the scale doesn't work.
Etah Greenland is very closely directly north of Boston, MA. Boston, is about 42 degrees north.
Komsomolets Island is very closely directly north of Hami Xinjiang, China. Hami is about 42.5 degrees north.
Etah Greenland: 78°18′50″N 72°36′35″W
Komsomolets Island: 80°29′03″N 94°59′47″E
Boston, MA: 42°21′29″N 71°03′49″W
Hami Xinjiang, China: 42°50′19″N 93°30′15″E
We have two pairs of locations that are approximately the same distance apart on the map displayed on earth3dmap.com
Google maps gives a distance from Etah Greenland to Komsomolets Island of about 1,472 miles great circle, 2,076 miles when I manually add points to mostly follow the lattitude.
Google maps gives a distance from Boston to Hami of about 6,471 miles great circle route, 8,500 miles miles when I manually add points to mostly follow the lattitude.
The map on earth3dmap.com gives a greatly distorted map the farther north and south you go. It's just a projection of a globe onto a flat map, this does not this reflect reality.
Just because the scale of the map changes the further away from the equator you go does not make the map any less accurate or viable.
In fact, it does. This is distortion. The scale must be consistent otherwise it doesn't suggest a flat plane.
A flat map of a flat surface must have a consistent scale for all points at the same time.
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In fact, it does. This is distortion. The scale must be consistent otherwise it doesn't suggest a flat plane.
A flat map of a flat surface must have a consistent scale for all points at the same time.
1. Interactive maps can have scales that change based on user interaction without being distorted (see my example).
2. Maps of earth have been made with distortion away from the equator so the map can be North and the map can align with cardinal directions. This has been the case for hundreds of years. These maps are better for navigation.
3. Maps which are free of this distortion don't adhere to traditional cardinal directions as shown before so they are better for showing the sizes of countries and worse for navigation.
According to these link Florida is the flattest state in America.
https://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2014/03/140314-flattest-states-geography-topography-science/
https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2014/03/science-several-us-states-led-by-florida-are-flatter-than-a-pancake/284348/
Now click this link and try zooming in. What happens to the scale? It changes.
https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=7/28.748/-80.892
By your logic the fact that the scale changes means that Florida is either distorted or not flat.
I have been to Florida and driven around Florida. Based on my observations this map of Florida is not distorted. I also have no reason to believe that these "Florida is flat" articles that i'm reading online are fake or lies.
So here you have a flat map of a flat surface and the scale can change based on user interaction.
I used a flat earth map with a scale which changes based on distance from the equator because it showed a general concept of an infinite repeating plane and also aligned with traditional directions.
This flat earth map is more accurate but it's not aligned with traditional directions and does not accurately depict the infinite repeating plane.
(https://static.independent.co.uk/s3fs-public/styles/story_large/public/thumbnails/image/2016/11/03/15/authagraph.png)
That's doesn't reflect reality either. If you go straight south from Australia or Africa in reality you arrive at Antarctica*. A flat map of the flat earth must reflect reality.
A flat map of a spherical object is predictably distorted. If the earth is flat, a flat map is easy and it is trivially not-distorted. Distortions show it's not accurate.
The directions are not marked on that map. You should be able to see that very clearly. That map does not adhere to the traditional "cardinal directions" map layout.
Now this is getting down to to nit picking and ad infinitum. By this logic I can make a claim that there is no accurate map of a sphere earth.
You can say the current version of google maps where you zoom out and see a sphere is accurate and I can make the same claim that you just have "because the directions are not marked on the map it is inaccurate".
or this map
https://www.echalk.co.uk/Science/physics/solarSystem/InteractiveEarth/interactiveEarth.html
I could provide you a map free of distortion with the directions marked on the map and you will say south is not the bottom of the map therefore it's inaccurate. Or south is a different direction for different places therefore the map is inaccurate. Even though South could be defined and the straight line path one must travel from any point on earth to reach the south pole so on that map it's perfectly feasible to have south point different directions for different locations.
I can provide a map which aligns with the cardinal directions and then, because the scale changes based on distance from the equator it's inaccurate.
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What is beyond the ice wall?
Because we have no evidence from beyond the ice wall (we have no evidence OF the ice wall,) what a person believes is really a reflection of them. It's like a Rorschach ink blot test. Some people see a dome, some see U.N Troops, some see were-penguins. It could be a psychoanalytical tool.
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we have no evidence OF the ice wall
No evidence of Antarctica? ??? That sounds a bit bizarre, even for a Round Earther...
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we have no evidence OF the ice wall
No evidence of Antarctica? ??? That sounds a bit bizarre, even for a Round Earther...
In the round earth model Antarctica is continent not a large wall going around the perimeter of the earth.
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we have no evidence OF the ice wall
No evidence of Antarctica? ??? That sounds a bit bizarre, even for a Round Earther...
I apologize I wasn't clearer. As iamcpc posted, I meant to say no evidence to suggest that Antarctica is a ring of ice instead of a continent.
I am bizarre as round earthers go but for different reasons.
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Well, I believe, NOTHING is beyond the ice wall. We are a miniscule species that is alone in the vast nothingness that surrounds us. How our plane came to be and where it will go once time runs out, no one knows. One thing is sure, however: THere was NEVER a big bang, and whatever the Globe-Earth scientist idiots propose, is completely false. There is nothing smaller than what is visible with the naked eye, there is thing such as subatomary particles, there is no thing such as any illusionary "higgs Boson", there is thing such as "black holes". The only black hole I see is inside the globe earthers' heads.
It's a miracle, so why do we need to search what is beyond the ice wall? Why do we need to know? The only intelligent statement given by a round earther was a quote from Richard Dawkins, who said: "Isn't it a noble and enlighting way to spend our brief time in the sun?" We should just enjoy it, before it's to late. Stop searching for a truth, when the truth is right before your eyes. Accept the mirace of life, and stop looking for anything beyond this miracle.
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Well, I believe, NOTHING is beyond the ice wall. We are a miniscule species that is alone in the vast nothingness that surrounds us. How our plane came to be and where it will go once time runs out, no one knows. One thing is sure, however: THere was NEVER a big bang, and whatever the Globe-Earth scientist idiots propose, is completely false. There is nothing smaller than what is visible with the naked eye, there is thing such as subatomary particles, there is no thing such as any illusionary "higgs Boson", there is thing such as "black holes". The only black hole I see is inside the globe earthers' heads.
It's a miracle, so why do we need to search what is beyond the ice wall? Why do we need to know? The only intelligent statement given by a round earther was a quote from Richard Dawkins, who said: "Isn't it a noble and enlighting way to spend our brief time in the sun?" We should just enjoy it, before it's to late. Stop searching for a truth, when the truth is right before your eyes. Accept the mirace of life, and stop looking for anything beyond this miracle.
You are such a cheerful poster. You seem so sure of your beliefs. Have you ever looked into a microscope? Or a spelling book?
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Well, I believe, NOTHING is beyond the ice wall. We are a miniscule species that is alone in the vast nothingness that surrounds us. How our plane came to be and where it will go once time runs out, no one knows. One thing is sure, however: THere was NEVER a big bang, and whatever the Globe-Earth scientist idiots propose, is completely false. There is nothing smaller than what is visible with the naked eye, there is thing such as subatomary particles, there is no thing such as any illusionary "higgs Boson", there is thing such as "black holes". The only black hole I see is inside the globe earthers' heads.
It's a miracle, so why do we need to search what is beyond the ice wall? Why do we need to know? The only intelligent statement given by a round earther was a quote from Richard Dawkins, who said: "Isn't it a noble and enlighting way to spend our brief time in the sun?" We should just enjoy it, before it's to late. Stop searching for a truth, when the truth is right before your eyes. Accept the mirace of life, and stop looking for anything beyond this miracle.
I do appreciate your position and certainty. However, to be clear, for most of what you have said, these are beliefs, or dogma. This is not to say that these are true or untrue, just that they are based on beliefs.
To pull out a couple:
"How our [place of existence] came to be and where it will go once time runs out, no one knows."
I agree, nobody knows for sure, there are many theories, but not certain.
"THere was NEVER a big bang..."
This is a statement of faith.
"There is nothing smaller than what is visible with the naked eye..."
This is a statement of faith. However, there is massive evidence that contradicts this dogma.
"It's a miracle..."
I completely agree. We both take this on faith.
"We should just enjoy it..."
Yes.
"Accept the mirace[sic] of life..."
I completely agree. We both take this on faith.
"...and stop looking for anything beyond this miracle."
There are many of us humans that are curious, going to keep looking.
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Well, I believe, NOTHING is beyond the ice wall. We are a miniscule species that is alone in the vast nothingness that surrounds us. How our plane came to be and where it will go once time runs out, no one knows. One thing is sure, however: THere was NEVER a big bang, and whatever the Globe-Earth scientist idiots propose, is completely false. There is nothing smaller than what is visible with the naked eye, there is thing such as subatomary particles, there is no thing such as any illusionary "higgs Boson", there is thing such as "black holes". The only black hole I see is inside the globe earthers' heads.
It's a miracle, so why do we need to search what is beyond the ice wall? Why do we need to know? The only intelligent statement given by a round earther was a quote from Richard Dawkins, who said: "Isn't it a noble and enlighting way to spend our brief time in the sun?" We should just enjoy it, before it's to late. Stop searching for a truth, when the truth is right before your eyes. Accept the mirace of life, and stop looking for anything beyond this miracle.
Willful ignorance is a choice anyone is free to make and I support your free choice. But before you start calling people idiots you need to remember that it's only because someone explored things not visible to the naked eye that you have a computer to post your uniformed name calling on the internet. Only because people studied electrons, you have a place to post your unsubstantiated speculations.
Science is always great when it produces the latest gaming console or microwavable Hot Pockets. But when it produces something people don't want to hear then they choose not to believe.