[EternalRedKing]

So, I had a thought. If the earth is flat, why does this occur, and under that applied logic, do all other planets follow these laws as well? What about planetoids and moons? Do solar bodies such as the sun follow these laws?

[Curious Squirrel]

So, I had a thought. If the earth is flat, why does this occur, and under that applied logic, do all other planets follow these laws as well? What about planetoids and moons? Do solar bodies such as the sun follow these laws?

We'll see if more is offered up, but this is what I've gotten/seen: Earth isn't a planet, and as such doesn't follow the rules/laws of planets. So other planets and such can still be, and indeed are, round. I haven't seen any sort of reasoning for why this is, but at least it's a start. Hopefully someone else will pipe up with a bit more, but I haven't seen any real answer at present for why Earth is different.

[EternalRedKing]

Wait, so if I understand you, then does that mean earth was constructed? Doesn't that defeat the purpose?
An object of planet size defeats the purpose of a planet, because it would require the resources of multiple planets, and if someone wanted to have humanity in one location, and had those capabilities, then why not just take the much simpler and much better idea of taking one of the other, numerous planets that can support life? Additionally, how could our object trap something like the moon in orbit, and still be stable, on a gravity basis? If the other planets end as spheres due to gravity and it's natural tendencies, why has ours not done so, and since it has not, when will it?

[CriticalThinker]

Don't think too hard about it, you might hemorrhage.  Essentially, you won't get a real answer because reasons.  They will wait for you to try to prove them wrong, poke holes in your logic based on some tiny assumed flaw.  If you're lucky, the short answer is because the Bible said so.  If you're not lucky, then it's 'cause aether and if you're really not lucky you'll be ignored.  Basic rule of thumb is they don't like you asking questions because they have no real answers.

Thank you,

CriticalThinker

[3DGeek]

There is a valid question here - the Round Earth Theory comes complete with an elegant explanation of how the Earth was formed, how the Sun and Moon were formed, how the entire universe was formed.   Plate tectonics explain the shape of the continents.   We know that the water that makes up the oceans came from comet impacts.   We understand in mind-numbing detail how all of this came about...with proof, with math, with widespread agreement about what happened.

The Flat Earth Theory says "This is how it is".   I don't see any "creation" descriptions on the Wiki - or described here ... except by the religious-nut sub-community.

[Dither]

The Flat Earth Theory says "This is how it is".   I don't see any "creation" descriptions on the Wiki - or described here ... except by the religious-nut sub-community.

This is true and I was thinking about it regarding plate tectonics just yesterday.

As a member of the "sub nuts" I can tell you that the Young Earth Creation (YEC) dudes hate us just as much and maybe even more than the regular Evolution science guys because they (YEC) want to be taken seriously in the scientific community and feel FET and Geocentrists give them a bad name.

If you hold to FET you need to rewrite the book on a lot of the current cosmological arguments.
There's no getting around it, we are "in the dark" on practically everything and don't have many answers yet.
That's also what makes being a flat earther kind of exciting right now, there's so much to look at and resolve.

 

 

[Jura-Glenlivet]

Except, there is no one doing the looking, your best man is sitting on some dusty old books written by a con-man, looking out of the window, thinking why can’t everybody see what I am seeing, while the Earth spins on. Since he (Sam) wrote it, proper science, has mapped the world, made the computer you sit at,………etc.
The reason isn’t lack of funds, it’s lack of minds, specifically, any great mind who did turn his gaze in your direction has moved on to other problems as it is apparent there is nothing to see here. All that’s left are the woo merchants and the goddidits.

[StinkyOne]

The Flat Earth Theory says "This is how it is".   I don't see any "creation" descriptions on the Wiki - or described here ... except by the religious-nut sub-community.

This is true and I was thinking about it regarding plate tectonics just yesterday.

As a member of the "sub nuts" I can tell you that the Young Earth Creation (YEC) dudes hate us just as much and maybe even more than the regular Evolution science guys because they (YEC) want to be taken seriously in the scientific community and feel FET and Geocentrists give them a bad name.

If you hold to FET you need to rewrite the book on a lot of the current cosmological arguments.
There's no getting around it, we are "in the dark" on practically everything and don't have many answers yet.
That's also what makes being a flat earther kind of exciting right now, there's so much to look at and resolve.

Honest question, why continue to hold onto an idea that is so demonstrably false? I know you are religious, but there is nothing in the Bible that claims the Earth is flat. There are passages that one could read as implying it is flat, but that is not mainstream thought. So much of modern life requires the Earth be a globe, why cling to an idea that even the ancients knew wasn't true?

[CriticalThinker]

Jura's right.  Most of the flat earthers threw Tom to the wolves in the upper fora.  Rowbotham was a convicted murderer, Hampden was imprisoned for something along the lines of attempted murder or stalking, not exactly sure which.  With the very small exception of the Bishop Experiment, no one has done anything of significance since around WWI.  Without the angry roundies posting to your forums regularly, you'd lose your google search rankings and participants.  When your best counterpoints boil down to nuh-uh or because reasons it gets rather stale.

CriticalThinker

[3DGeek]

Except, there is no one doing the looking, your best man is sitting on some dusty old books written by a con-man, looking out of the window, thinking why can’t everybody see what I am seeing, while the Earth spins on. Since he (Sam) wrote it, proper science, has mapped the world, made the computer you sit at,………etc.
The reason isn’t lack of funds, it’s lack of minds, specifically, any great mind who did turn his gaze in your direction has moved on to other problems as it is apparent there is nothing to see here. All that’s left are the woo merchants and the goddidits.

*UPVOTE*!

I suspect that the holy leader of this clan is actually in a rather desperate situation - he's finally getting some SERIOUS examinations of the problems of his theory being probed very carefully here by people who are not going to give up on that quest.

There are a TON of threads containing dangling problems that he can't solve and all of his followers are running away from.  Most of the difficult questions are now being ignored...and those that are not are falling back on the most desperate of claims.  ("Perspective isn't true", "Airplane manufacturers don't know how fast their planes can fly", "Hurricanes are formed on the equator by the grinding of magical invisible gears"...that seem to have no other function or even mention in the FE universe).   These are desperate claims.

I could see that without careful probing, the FE explanations seem somewhat convincing and clever - but only to people who wanted it to be true and chose not to look too carefully at the consequences of these hokey versions of the laws of physics.

Those who debate on these threads these days are the religious nuts (for whom any explanation cannot top "Faith" - and who are at odds with "TFES" to the same extent as the RE'ers are).   I would not like to be in the shoes of the mighty leader.   With it becoming increasingly clear that he's wrong - will he be able to go from "The Leader Of The Flat Earth Society" (looking confident in his snappy suit) to "The guy who was once stupid enough to believe that the earth is flat".   That's a very hard psychological jump.   A mere part-time FE'er might decide that the RE evidence is convincing and just quietly slink away - but not the mighty leader.

The group here clearly is in some trouble - most of the Wiki (to which we were confidently referred) turns out not to reflect "current thinking" at all - but nobody seems to have the energy to go and update it.  The numbers of mainstream FE'ers who are actively contributing has dropped to less than a handful by my count.

This community is dying.

I for one, think that's a very good thing.  The last thing the world needs these days is another source of lies, falsehoods, nonsense and outright fakery.   I'm happy to be one of the nails in that particular coffin.

[Pete Svarrior]

Hampden was imprisoned for something along the lines of attempted murder or stalking, not exactly sure which

It was neither of these things. He was charged with libel. Perhaps if you paid some attention to my research, you would be able to get some of the basics right.


Correspondent (8th March 1875). "Spring Assizes". The Times (London) (28257): page 11.

This community is dying.

Your consistent ability to completely miss the point never ceases to amaze me. From your "I totally get computers, btw use this cheap hosting, one click and you're done also use ICMP ping to measure distances " rambles to a prediction that a community whose traffic is currently on a massive upswing is "dying", it's starting to look like we need to take whatever you say and then simply assume the opposite to be true.

Consider some of the following:

Our Alexa global rank. Check it for a few days, see if it changes. You might notice an interesting trend. Or just look at the past graph to see the very same trend over the last half-year. Sure, it's hardly the be-all/end-all of website statistics, but it's publicly accessible to the likes of you, and it should prove the point sufficiently.

Our Google Analytics data tells very much the same story:

• Daily forum traffic has tripled over the course of last year.
• Wiki traffic went up 8 times over the same period of time.
• Homepage traffic is much less linear, so I'll reduce granularity and merely mention that last month's (August 2017) traffic was at 40,000, continuing an upwards trend that really picked up the pace in April

And this is only the tip of the iceberg. You incorrectly assume that this website is the sum total of the FES's activity. Our social media following is also skyrocketing (and is one of the reasons you may have seen fewer posts from me recently), and we're garnering more and more attention from the mainstream media. Other FE groups, including those that strongly disagree with us, and the representation of which would not be found here, have observed similar increases.

No, bucko, this community is nowhere close to dying. It'll take much more than a few cretins who don't quite get it to harm our momentum. Sure, a few RE'ers are bitter because their constant shitposting along the lines of "haha if the Earth is flat then why is it so round lol??? why doesn't it freeze tho?" doesn't get much attention. Perhaps some of you don't understand the purpose of this website and community as a whole. But that's fine. Whiny RE'er "masterminds" are collateral at best and a nuisance at worst.

[StinkyOne]

This community is dying.

Your consistent ability to completely miss the point never ceases to amaze me. From your "I totally get computers, btw use this cheap hosting, one click and you're done also use ICMP ping to measure distances " rambles to a prediction that a community whose traffic is currently on a massive upswing is "dying", it's starting to look like we need to take whatever you say and then simply assume the opposite to be true.

Consider some of the following:

Our Alexa global rank. Check it for a few days, see if it changes. You might notice an interesting trend. Or just look at the past graph to see the very same trend over the last half-year: https://www.alexa.com/siteinfo/tfes.org - Sure, it's hardly the be-all-end-all of website statistics, but it's publicly accessible to the likes of you, and it should prove the point sufficiently.

Our Google Analytics data tells very much the same story:

• Daily forum traffic has tripled over the course of last year.
• Wiki traffic went up 8 times over the same period of time.
• Homepage traffic is much less linear, so I'll reduce granularity and merely mention that last month's (August 2017) traffic was at 40,000, continuing an upwards trend that really picked up the pace in April

And this is only the tip of the iceberg. You incorrectly assume that this website is the sum total of the FES's activity. Our social media following is also skyrocketing (and is one of the reasons you may have seen fewer posts from me recently), and we're garnering more and more attention from the mainstream media. Other FE groups, including those that strongly disagree with us, and the representation of which would not be found here, have observed similar increases.

No, bucko, this community is nowhere close to dying. It'll take much more than a few cretins who don't quite get it to harm our momentum. Sure, a few RE'ers are bitter because their constant shitposting along the lines of "haha if the Earth is flat then why is it so round lol??? why doesn't it freeze tho?" doesn't get much attention. Perhaps some of you don't understand the purpose of this website and community as a whole. But that's fine. Whiny RE'er "masterminds" are collateral at best and a nuisance at worst.

Wonder how much of that traffic bump is from people learning that there are some people still think the world is flat? 2 year ago, I never would have thought about it. It became a "thing", so you're seeing the expected increase in traffic as people become aware/curious. Doesn't mean there are more FEers, but that isn't what we're talking about.

You seem like a relatively smart guy, mind me asking what turned you off mainstream science and shunning a lot of what we know about the Earth? How does one come to think the Earth is flat?

[Pete Svarrior]

Wonder how much of that traffic bump is from people learning that there are some people still think the world is flat? 2 year ago, I never would have thought about it. It became a "thing", so you're seeing the expected increase in traffic as people become aware/curious.

Oh, loads, but think about it that way: let's assume for a moment that there is a constant (but tiny) chance that a person who finds out about FET is converted. If our traffic has multiplied, logically so would our conversions. Anecdotally, I know this to be true from conversations with people (primarily recent converts), but providing concrete data for that is difficult.

You seem like a relatively smart guy, mind me asking what turned you off mainstream science and shunning a lot of what we know about the Earth? How does one come to think the Earth is flat?

It's simply the model that's more accurate and consistent with my personal observations. I'm an empiricist at heart, I prefer to try things myself than take people's word for what is true. I'm ready to be convinced that I'm wrong, but so far RE'ers' convictions are interesting thought experiments at the best of times, and horrendous misunderstandings most of the time. Just look at some of 3DGeek's attempts at "disproving" FET. It would be funny if it weren't so sad, and what makes it even sadder is his small following of sycophants who are ready to scream "good job!" whenever he belches out the next bit of nonsense.

For a small sample of what RE'ers send us (mostly via private messages), have a look at my AR thread, wtf the erth isnt flat!1! - naturally, I'm presenting a very biased selection of comments, but it should give you some idea of why I resent the crowd that just comes here to talk about how they think the Earth is round, and how they feel entitled to debates and constant scrutiny.

The most recent inanity from earlier today left me just about speechless:

So if the earth ACCELERATES forwards at such a speed (yes I read your FAQ) then why doesn't our pull to the earth get greater?

For example, if all other variables are constant, why doesn't an apple dropped from the same height at different and very far apart  times, why would they land at the same time? Even if it was a different object, wouldn't anyone have noticed?

Someone actually said that. In public, with their Twitter handle for everyone to see.

[Ga_x2]

[...]  Just look at some of 3DGeek's attempts at "disproving" FET. It would be funny if it weren't so sad, and what makes it even sadder is his small following of sycophants who are ready to scream "good job!" whenever he belches out the next bit of nonsense.

If those arguments are so easily disproven, why don't you take a minute of your time to do it? A simple copy paste should suffice. Instead, the upper fora are deserted, with the exception of Tom grasping at straws...
EDIT b4 we've disproven them a hundred times: then update the damn wiki which is all over the place...

[StinkyOne]

Sorry, but 3D has done a solid job of disproving your theory. As the previous poster mentioned, why not come educate all of us mouth-breathing REers on the ways of FET? Fact is, there is no evidence for FET. You may want to be empirical about things, and that is fine to a point. The problem with empiricism is that your senses are completely inadequate to even begin to describe the world around you.

[Dither]

Honest question, why continue to hold onto an idea that is so demonstrably false?

A bit of background may be needed to answer this.

Since before 1980 I have believed in Young Earth Creation.
I already had a healthy distrust of the so called scientific narrative provided by evolution.
Then recently, (last five years) I adopted a Reformed Soteriety and that led to Geocentricism. (Globe model)
Flat Earth came along and challenged my worldview and I dropped the ball, easy peasy.

That's how I got here, there's no going back, Flat Earth is a revelation of sorts.
I get that not everybody gets it, but everything I've seen so far only strengthens my resolve that this is truth.
 

[Curious Squirrel]

Honest question, why continue to hold onto an idea that is so demonstrably false?

A bit of background may be needed to answer this.

Since before 1980 I have believed in Young Earth Creation.
I already had a healthy distrust of the so called scientific narrative provided by evolution.
Then recently, (last five years) I adopted a Reformed Soteriety and that led to Geocentricism. (Globe model)
Flat Earth came along and challenged my worldview and I dropped the ball, easy peasy.

That's how I got here, there's no going back, Flat Earth is a revelation of sorts.
I get that not everybody gets it, but everything I've seen so far only strengthens my resolve that this is truth.
 

Like what? Honest question. The only thing I see 'in favor' of FE that I don't feel is wholly explained well enough is distances visible. But the FE explains for horizon I've seen are even worse for consistency.

[Ga_x2]

Since before 1980 I have believed in Young Earth Creation.
I already had a healthy distrust of the so called scientific narrative provided by evolution.
Then recently, (last five years) I adopted a Reformed Soteriety and that led to Geocentricism. (Globe model)
Flat Earth came along and challenged my worldview and I dropped the ball, easy peasy.

That's how I got here, there's no going back, Flat Earth is a revelation of sorts.
I get that not everybody gets it, but everything I've seen so far only strengthens my resolve that this is truth.
 

no offense, but I hope you realize that from an external pov this describes a path on which one becomes progressively more ignorant... I can (sorta) understand special creation. YEC is already rather contrary to everything we know, geocentrism and flat earth are simply untenable. Yet you seem a smart guy, and you are obviously convinced. Are you also of the opinion that the various "disproofs" are bogus? Can you argue for your position or is it just a matter of faith and reality* can go packing?
*(whatever it is, let's not get too philosophical here)

[3DGeek]

Since before 1980 I have believed in Young Earth Creation.
I already had a healthy distrust of the so called scientific narrative provided by evolution.
Then recently, (last five years) I adopted a Reformed Soteriety and that led to Geocentricism. (Globe model)
Flat Earth came along and challenged my worldview and I dropped the ball, easy peasy.

That's how I got here, there's no going back, Flat Earth is a revelation of sorts.
I get that not everybody gets it, but everything I've seen so far only strengthens my resolve that this is truth.
 

no offense, but I hope you realize that from an external pov this describes a path on which one becomes progressively more ignorant... I can (sorta) understand special creation. YEC is already rather contrary to everything we know, geocentrism and flat earth are simply untenable. Yet you seem a smart guy, and you are obviously convinced. Are you also of the opinion that the various "disproofs" are bogus? Can you argue for your position or is it just a matter of faith and reality* can go packing?
*(whatever it is, let's not get too philosophical here)

If you want to say "God did it" - then there is little to discuss.

Gods are claimed to be omnipotent - there is literally NOTHING they cannot do - so they can bend light beams into pretzels so that the flat earth seems to be round to every rational test.   They can fritz with gravity - make holographic moons - heck they can get inside your brain and tweak your memories and every thought you have.

If there are gods in the universe (or even just one god) - then there is literally nothing we can know for sure.   No experiment, no logical deduction, no mathematical proof is worth a darned thing.

Nothing you do in life makes a difference because you can't trust your senses or your own mind.

A universe with a god in it is just a pointless waste of everyone's time.

Some religions make the claim that their particular flavor of god promised not to fritz with people's heads...but on what basis do we know that?  "Visions"?   That counts as "Fritzing with someone's head" in my opinion.   Books?   Well, who wrote the books?   People.   How did they know what to write?   Oh, yeah - visions again.   Even if that god DID make the promise - she/he/it is omnipotent...they can make a rock that they can't lift - but they can lift any rock...so for sure they can make an unbreakable promise, then go right ahead and break it.

So if you want to take the religious "get-out-clause" - fine, be my guest.   Welcome to your own personal hell where you can trust nothing...see nothing...believe whatever random garbage your god stuffs into your brain.

Personally - the only way I can function in the universe is to ignore "The God Hypothesis" - it adds nothing to the explanation that we already have.   Modern science can explain almost everything (but not ABSOLUTELY everything) - and filling in the gaps is a fascinating endeavor.

Interestingly, this particular community has a Wiki, and on it (in the "FAQ" section) it says:

Is flat earth theory connected to a religion?
Flat earth theory is neither officially nor unofficially associated with any religion. Throughout the ages various religious institutions have championed a flat earth model for the world. Unfortunately this leaves us with the vestigial thought that flat earth theory and religions are symbiotic. They are not, even though many religions today, both mainstream and otherwise, still teach its followers that the world is flat. While they are not incorrect, believing in a flat earth isn't contingent upon believing in a deity or being a part of any religion.


So it's really kinda useless to come here and continually play the "God Did It" card...nobody here is really interested in that hogwash...neither RE'er nor the "TFES" FE'ers...and it does not advance the debate one iota.

[J-Man]

Since before 1980 I have believed in Young Earth Creation.
I already had a healthy distrust of the so called scientific narrative provided by evolution.
Then recently, (last five years) I adopted a Reformed Soteriety and that led to Geocentricism. (Globe model)
Flat Earth came along and challenged my worldview and I dropped the ball, easy peasy.

That's how I got here, there's no going back, Flat Earth is a revelation of sorts.
I get that not everybody gets it, but everything I've seen so far only strengthens my resolve that this is truth.
 

no offense, but I hope you realize that from an external pov this describes a path on which one becomes progressively more ignorant... I can (sorta) understand special creation. YEC is already rather contrary to everything we know, geocentrism and flat earth are simply untenable. Yet you seem a smart guy, and you are obviously convinced. Are you also of the opinion that the various "disproofs" are bogus? Can you argue for your position or is it just a matter of faith and reality* can go packing?
*(whatever it is, let's not get too philosophical here)

If you want to say "God did it" - then there is little to discuss.

Gods are claimed to be omnipotent - there is literally NOTHING they cannot do - so they can bend light beams into pretzels so that the flat earth seems to be round to every rational test.   They can fritz with gravity - make holographic moons - heck they can get inside your brain and tweak your memories and every thought you have.

If there are gods in the universe (or even just one god) - then there is literally nothing we can know for sure.   No experiment, no logical deduction, no mathematical proof is worth a darned thing.

Nothing you do in life makes a difference because you can't trust your senses or your own mind.

A universe with a god in it is just a pointless waste of everyone's time.

Some religions make the claim that their particular flavor of god promised not to fritz with people's heads...but on what basis do we know that?  "Visions"?   That counts as "Fritzing with someone's head" in my opinion.   Books?   Well, who wrote the books?   People.   How did they know what to write?   Oh, yeah - visions again.   Even if that god DID make the promise - she/he/it is omnipotent...they can make a rock that they can't lift - but they can lift any rock...so for sure they can make an unbreakable promise, then go right ahead and break it.

So if you want to take the religious "get-out-clause" - fine, be my guest.   Welcome to your own personal hell where you can trust nothing...see nothing...believe whatever random garbage your god stuffs into your brain.

Personally - the only way I can function in the universe is to ignore "The God Hypothesis" - it adds nothing to the explanation that we already have.   Modern science can explain almost everything (but not ABSOLUTELY everything) - and filling in the gaps is a fascinating endeavor.

Interestingly, this particular community has a Wiki, and on it (in the "FAQ" section) it says:

Is flat earth theory connected to a religion?
Flat earth theory is neither officially nor unofficially associated with any religion. Throughout the ages various religious institutions have championed a flat earth model for the world. Unfortunately this leaves us with the vestigial thought that flat earth theory and religions are symbiotic. They are not, even though many religions today, both mainstream and otherwise, still teach its followers that the world is flat. While they are not incorrect, believing in a flat earth isn't contingent upon believing in a deity or being a part of any religion.


So it's really kinda useless to come here and continually play the "God Did It" card...nobody here is really interested in that hogwash...neither RE'er nor the "TFES" FE'ers...and it does not advance the debate one iota.

Qeek

Some of us are comfortable with our God, you obviously tremble and think your abilities require such to acknowledge you. ha ha Oh our little grasshopper jumping around, Make a Sun, Make a Moon, perform a rain dance and make it rain. You can't, you discard truth for your own ego. God fearing peeps aren't leaving, get over it.

Since Copernicus what has the globe earth produced in the way of benefit to me? Name one darn thing.