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Offline Roundy

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Re: Trump
« Reply #2240 on: September 13, 2017, 05:59:27 PM »
That really just shows you what the US is like right now.  National reading level is only 6th grade and people don't want to feel dumb.  Talk plainly and people tend to listen.  Tell them what they want to hear and they'll love you for it.  It's not like a normal job where if you don't do what you say you can do in the first 90 days, you'll get fired.  All the hard part is in the running.

CT

I doubt it's that different in other countries. Politicians want to reach the masses, not just the elite. Average intelligence just isn't that smart. It's the same principle behind the idea of a newspaper being written at a 6th grade level; it's not that people in general are stupid, it's that some people are stupid, and they have as much of a right to news they can understand as anyone else.
Dr. Frank is a physicist. He says it's impossible. So it's impossible.
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Offline CriticalThinker

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Re: Trump
« Reply #2241 on: September 13, 2017, 10:05:54 PM »
You're probably right about other countries as well.  Trump specifically targeted rural communities, lower income working people and retirees that yearned for the good old days of American manufacturing.  All segments that have been largely ignored by both parties for a good number of years and quite frankly are sick of that bullshit.  I come from a rural community where, I'm 100% sure I would have seen a lot of Trump stickers on pickups because he was speaking their language.  They didn't want to know the details because they probably wouldn't understand some of it.  They wanted someone to, just once, give half a flying fuck about how shitty it was for them.  In this case, they got someone good at pretending and they got duped.

It's the same reason I don't use medical terminology with any of my patients.  I want them to understand, not think that I'm some douche elitist doctor that sees them as a number instead of a person.

CT
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Offline Lord Dave

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Re: Trump
« Reply #2242 on: September 14, 2017, 04:47:24 AM »
The problem with manufacturing sector workers isn't that they're being ignored, its thst they wwnt something they can't have: High paying, low skilled jobs.


They ask: Why can't I get a job, paying $35,000/year with health benfits on my high school diploma?
And the answer is: Because non-American labor  and automation is cheaper.
And if we fix that so it bcomes cost effective, the cost of goods will jump to accomodate.  So they'll get a job, but everyone else who has a job will suddenly have a lower standard of living because "Made in America" is expensive.


But god forbid you tell them that.  Hell, that group is usually all about taking care of yourself yet whines when they suddenly realize that their 20 years operating a soda can making machine is worthless.  The only way to solve that is to give them the chsnce to go to school but most don't want to.  They want it back the way it was.
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Offline Roundy

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Re: Trump
« Reply #2243 on: September 14, 2017, 04:55:43 AM »
Maybe government-paid higher education is a good idea after all.

I think you really do have to feel for them.  But if they're willing to step out of their comfort zones there are still good jobs out there that don't necessarily require a college education. Sales, for example. Of course that requires a certain kind of skill, but if you're dumb, lazy, and have no people skills your prospects are probably pretty bleak anyway.
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Offline Pete Svarrior

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Re: Trump
« Reply #2244 on: September 14, 2017, 09:11:12 AM »
Maybe government-paid higher education is a good idea after all.
It's not, and many countries have found out the hard way so you don't have to. All that happens is most jobs that previously required a high school education now require a Master's degree. Those who can't attain one, no matter the reason, end up getting shoehorned into even worse jobs than before.
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Offline Lord Dave

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Re: Trump
« Reply #2245 on: September 14, 2017, 11:02:38 AM »
Maybe government-paid higher education is a good idea after all.
It's not, and many countries have found out the hard way so you don't have to. All that happens is most jobs that previously required a high school education now require a Master's degree. Those who can't attain one, no matter the reason, end up getting shoehorned into even worse jobs than before.
Incorrect.  But good try.
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Offline Pete Svarrior

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Re: Trump
« Reply #2246 on: September 14, 2017, 11:14:11 AM »
Incorrect.  But good try.
Yeah, with a powerful rebuttal like that, I guess I'll go and tell most European countries to get over their problems. After all, Lord Dave reckons they don't exist.
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Offline Lord Dave

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Re: Trump
« Reply #2247 on: September 14, 2017, 12:11:32 PM »
Incorrect.  But good try.
Yeah, with a powerful rebuttal like that, I guess I'll go and tell most European countries to get over their problems. After all, Lord Dave reckons they don't exist.

I gave exactly the same amount of information you did.  Why should I work harder than you?




In other news:

Trump is now Pro-DACA.


Quote
Does anybody really want to throw out good, educated and accomplished young people who have jobs, some serving in the military? Really!.....
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Offline Pete Svarrior

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Re: Trump
« Reply #2248 on: September 14, 2017, 12:18:29 PM »
I gave exactly the same amount of information you did.
Not at all.
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Offline Lord Dave

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Re: Trump
« Reply #2249 on: September 14, 2017, 12:19:24 PM »
I gave exactly the same amount of information you did.
Not at all.
I'm sorry, I guess I missed the cited sources for increased educational requirements for identical jobs.
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Offline Pete Svarrior

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Re: Trump
« Reply #2250 on: September 14, 2017, 12:21:04 PM »
I'm sorry, I guess I missed the cited sources for increased educational requirements for identical jobs.
You seem to think that a description of a problem and "NUH UH" is "the same level of information". A new low for you, buddy.
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Offline Lord Dave

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Re: Trump
« Reply #2251 on: September 14, 2017, 12:59:46 PM »
I'm sorry, I guess I missed the cited sources for increased educational requirements for identical jobs.
You seem to think that a description of a problem and "NUH UH" is "the same level of information". A new low for you, buddy.
Fine, I'll bring it up to your level.

"In many countries, free higher education has helped bring about a much greater standard of living in the population without distorting educational requirements."

Also, in the United States, a country where you DON'T get free higher education, a High School Diploma still carries the same weight job wise as it did before yet jobs offered are increasingly requiring higher education.  This is not due to some shift in the educational status or even it's availability but rather the shift in manufacturing and low skill jobs being taken by machines or outsourced overseas.  Those nations where Free Education exists had that occur prior as they didn't have a high manufacturing sector, and solved it by providing educational opportunities to all it's citizens.

To summarize:
Free Higher Education didn't cause jobs to require degrees.  Jobs that require degrees caused Free Higher Education.

Also, I'd love to see an example of a job that previously didn't require a higher educational degree that now does.
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Offline Pete Svarrior

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Re: Trump
« Reply #2252 on: September 14, 2017, 01:02:47 PM »
Also, I'd love to see an example of a job that previously didn't require a higher educational degree that now does.
Secretary/Personal Assistant.
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Offline Rama Set

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Re: Trump
« Reply #2253 on: September 14, 2017, 01:15:32 PM »
Workplace competitiveness has made higher education, especially post-undergrad work, whether a graduate degree of a diploma or certificate augmentation to your degree very important to differentiate you from other candidates. In Canada, 53% of working age people have undergraduate degrees, so by virtue of the volume of degrees out there, they become a less certain indicator of ability or achievement.  If you are competing against that pool with only a high school education, you will have to be exceptional in other areas to stand out. It can happen, especially in areas like sales, but it is becoming more and more frequent to find candidates who not only have the social skills and mindset for a job, but also have higher education and often post undergraduate work to go with it.
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Offline Lord Dave

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Re: Trump
« Reply #2254 on: September 14, 2017, 03:50:47 PM »
If you are going to DebOOonK an expert then you have to at least provide a source with credentials of equal or greater relevance. Even then, it merely shows that some experts disagree with each other.

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Offline Pete Svarrior

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Re: Trump
« Reply #2255 on: September 14, 2017, 04:58:08 PM »
Congratulations, Dave, you have successfully found counter-examples. That does very little to disrupt the trend that Europe has been struggling for a few decades now. As I said: are you expecting me to just tell the EU to stop having its problems because you feel they don't exist? It won't work.
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Offline Lord Dave

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Re: Trump
« Reply #2256 on: September 14, 2017, 06:28:02 PM »
Congratulations, Dave, you have successfully found counter-examples. That does very little to disrupt the trend that Europe has been struggling for a few decades now. As I said: are you expecting me to just tell the EU to stop having its problems because you feel they don't exist? It won't work.
It's more than you've done.

But exactly what problems are you referring to?  That there aren't alot of unskilled labor jobs in the EU?
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Offline Pete Svarrior

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Re: Trump
« Reply #2257 on: September 14, 2017, 08:18:57 PM »
But exactly what problems are you referring to?  That there aren't alot of unskilled labor jobs in the EU?
That jobs which definitely shouldn't require a Master's degree now require one, as a direct result of overly-subsidised education.
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Offline Lord Dave

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Re: Trump
« Reply #2258 on: September 14, 2017, 09:41:38 PM »
But exactly what problems are you referring to?  That there aren't alot of unskilled labor jobs in the EU?
That jobs which definitely shouldn't require a Master's degree now require one, as a direct result of overly-subsidised education.

How do you even know that's happening?  Because I haven't seen it and so far you haven't shown anything to prove that it exists.  Or even hint that it exists.  Hell, is there even a graduate level course in Secretarial?  Cause I did a quick search and found nothing higher than a 2 year degree and that's for jobs like Executive offices, medical offices, and legal offices.  All of which require specialized knowledge. 

And even if it does, I fail to see the problem.  If higher education is free, why wouldn't you take it anyway?  If I were an employer I'd look at someone's lack of a higher education, which is free, as being a sign that they're lazy, undisciplined, or have difficulty in learning.
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Offline honk

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ur retartet but u donut even no it and i walnut tell u y