Why hasn't Earth broken apart so far?
« on: May 30, 2021, 01:34:56 AM »
Start with a simple (thought) experiment: Put some dirt into your hand and throw it in the sky; What happens to the dirt? Obviously, it disintegrates in the air and you get a mess.

Doesn't the same thing happen to Flat Earth? I mean, Round Earth is bounded by gravity, but since there is no gravity on Flat Earth, what keeps Earth united instead?

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Offline Pete Svarrior

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Re: Why hasn't Earth broken apart so far?
« Reply #1 on: May 30, 2021, 09:23:01 AM »
there is no gravity on Flat Earth
This statement is false.

Start with a simple (thought) experiment: Put some dirt into your hand and throw it in the sky; What happens to the dirt? Obviously, it disintegrates in the air and you get a mess.
The Earth, round or flat, does not even remotely resemble a handful of dirt. Anyone can make up a ludicrous non-sequitur, but they don't really help advance a discussion.

Consider the following thought experiment: if I put a slice of salami in my mouth and chew it, I experience a delightful medley of umami and fatty goodness. Why, oh why, doesn't the same happen to the supposedly round Earth?
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Re: Why hasn't Earth broken apart so far?
« Reply #2 on: June 02, 2021, 08:45:21 AM »

[/quote]The Earth, round or flat, does not even remotely resemble a handful of dirt. Anyone can make up a ludicrous non-sequitur, but they don't really help advance a discussion.
[/quote]
Well, im curious about this myself too. You didn't answer his question though: What holds the flat earth together? Im a flat-earther, i simply don't really know the answer to this detail, and am quite curious now, as the Perpetual motion theory doesn't give an answer to this question either (as far as im aware). (i also dont understand the how i properly quote, excuse me)

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Re: Why hasn't Earth broken apart so far?
« Reply #3 on: June 02, 2021, 09:00:58 AM »
You didn't answer his question though
Yes - I explained why the question makes no sense under the OP's presumptions. It is only normal that I wouldn't answer a non-seq.

What holds the flat earth together?
It is currently unknown what holds matter together, regardless of what matter it is, and regardless of the shape of the Earth. There was some speculation around the Ds3* particle, but that went nowhere so far afaik.

In other words, this is a silly question, made in a poor attempt at a "gotcha". OP's preferred theory doesn't get us any closer to a meaningful answer.
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Re: Why hasn't Earth broken apart so far?
« Reply #4 on: June 02, 2021, 02:24:53 PM »
In other words, this is a silly question, made in a poor attempt at a "gotcha". OP's preferred theory doesn't get us any closer to a meaningful answer.

Well in RE Earth the main force that keeps the planet from breaking apart is gravity. In what way is this not a meaningful answer?

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Re: Why hasn't Earth broken apart so far?
« Reply #5 on: June 02, 2021, 05:20:12 PM »
Well in RE Earth the main force that keeps the planet from breaking apart is gravity.
Even if we squint our eyes very hard and assume that you meant "gravitation", that is plainly not the case, nor is it one that would distinguish between RE and FE.
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Re: Why hasn't Earth broken apart so far?
« Reply #6 on: June 02, 2021, 10:07:38 PM »
Even if we squint our eyes very hard and assume that you meant "gravitation", that is plainly not the case, nor is it one that would distinguish between RE and FE.

Gravity causes all bodies beyond a certain mass to be spherical. Without the effect of gravity a planet would not necessarily break apart, but it would not have formed at all.
Note that I refer to gravity as it is described by "mainstream" science and not as described in the FE wiki.

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/why-are-planets-round/#:~:text=Planets%20are%20round%20because%20their,and%20pulls%20everything%20toward%20it.&text=The%20only%20way%20to%20get,is%20to%20form%20a%20sphere.

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Re: Why hasn't Earth broken apart so far?
« Reply #7 on: June 03, 2021, 01:50:58 AM »

Quote
Gravity causes all bodies beyond a certain mass to be spherical. Without the effect of gravity a planet would not necessarily break apart, but it would not have formed at all.
Note that I refer to gravity as it is described by "mainstream" science and not as described in the FE

Looks like according to “mainstream” science, the earth would break apart without gravity

www.bbc.com/earth/story/20160212-what-would-happen-to-you-if-gravity-stopped-working
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Re: Why hasn't Earth broken apart so far?
« Reply #8 on: June 03, 2021, 11:13:01 AM »
Without the effect of gravity a planet would not necessarily break apart, but it would not have formed at all.
Right, but:
  • This, once again, incorrectly assumes that we should be considering a scenario "without gravity" (and I, once again, generously assume you mean "gravitation")
  • We're not currently discussing the formation of the Earth
  • We're also not discussing planets

In other words - you have veered so far away from the original question that you somehow rendered it even less meaningful than it was in the first place.
« Last Edit: June 03, 2021, 11:16:00 AM by Pete Svarrior »
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Re: Why hasn't Earth broken apart so far?
« Reply #9 on: June 03, 2021, 12:21:03 PM »
The OP stated that Round Earth is bound by gravity. I assumed that this statement is based on the notion that gravity is responsible for the creation of planets.
If you still believe that I am veering off topic then please correct me.

The traditional theory of gravitation is incompatible with the Flat Earth Model. At least this is what is written in the wiki on Universal Acceleration.
Therefore the mechanism by which the Earth maintains its shape under FE is not stated and needs to be defined.


Regarding the use of terms gravity and gravitation, in my native language there is only one word that covers both. Therefore it is very difficult for me to understand the difference between the two.

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Re: Why hasn't Earth broken apart so far?
« Reply #10 on: June 03, 2021, 01:04:39 PM »
The OP stated that Round Earth is bound by gravity.
And I explained very early on that this is not the case.

If you still believe that I am veering off topic then please correct me.
I did so twice.

The traditional theory of gravitation is incompatible with the Flat Earth Model.
This is incorrect.

At least this is what is written in the wiki on Universal Acceleration.
Not true. It sounds like you only read the lede of the article, and thus ended up with an overly simplistic understanding of the subject.

Therefore the mechanism by which the Earth maintains its shape under FE is not stated and needs to be defined.
Even if your assumptions held (they don't), this "need" would not logically follow.

Regarding the use of terms gravity and gravitation, in my native language there is only one word that covers both. Therefore it is very difficult for me to understand the difference between the two.
The difference is crucial for this discussion. Gravity is a phenomenon specific to the Earth, which you could simply describe as "things fall". Think F=mg, where g is roughly 9.8ms-2.
Gravitation is the supposed mechanism of attraction between all mass. Think F=Gm1m2x-2

Generally, you will find no FE'ers who will disagree with you that things fall. You are, however, likely to find ones who dispute the magnitude of gravitation, or, more rarely, its existence at all.
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Re: Why hasn't Earth broken apart so far?
« Reply #11 on: June 03, 2021, 01:40:59 PM »
At least this is what is written in the wiki on Universal Acceleration.
Not true. It sounds like you only read the lede of the article, and thus ended up with an overly simplistic understanding of the subject.

Its a direct quote from the wiki that traditional theories of gravitation are incompatible with FE.  Are you suggesting that those theories are compatible with FE?  That's a pretty blatant contradiction.


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Re: Why hasn't Earth broken apart so far?
« Reply #12 on: June 03, 2021, 01:52:10 PM »
Its a direct quote from the wiki that traditional theories of gravitation are incompatible with FE.
I only just finished explaining this, together with a speculation for how you could have ended up with this misunderstanding. Perhaps reading my post will help?
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Re: Why hasn't Earth broken apart so far?
« Reply #13 on: June 03, 2021, 01:58:15 PM »
Its a direct quote from the wiki that traditional theories of gravitation are incompatible with FE.
I only just finished explaining this, together with a speculation for how you could have ended up with this misunderstanding. Perhaps reading my post will help?

Quote
The traditional theory of gravitation (e.g. Newton's Law of Universal Gravitation, General Theory of Relativity, etc) is incompatible with the Flat Earth Model because it requires a large, spherical mass pulling objects uniformly toward its center.

That's direct from the wiki page.  https://wiki.tfes.org/Universal_Acceleration

Traditional theories of gravitation can't be both compatible and incompatible with FE at the same time.
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Re: Why hasn't Earth broken apart so far?
« Reply #14 on: June 03, 2021, 01:59:03 PM »
That's direct from the wiki page.  https://wiki.tfes.org/Universal_Acceleration
Yes, this has been stated three times now, and I successfully read it the first time around. Once again, this has already been addressed. I don't know how to best help you beyond that.
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Re: Why hasn't Earth broken apart so far?
« Reply #15 on: June 03, 2021, 02:04:48 PM »
That's direct from the wiki page.  https://wiki.tfes.org/Universal_Acceleration
Yes, this has been stated three times now, and I successfully read it the first time around. Once again, this has already been addressed. I don't know how to best help you beyond that.

You can explain how traditional theories of gravitation can be both compatible and incompatible with FE at the same time.
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Re: Why hasn't Earth broken apart so far?
« Reply #16 on: June 04, 2021, 11:11:42 AM »
You can explain how traditional theories of gravitation can be both compatible and incompatible with FE at the same time.
Why would I do that? I already told you (this marks the fourth time) that this is not what's being claimed. If you're going to waste our time with low-effort strawmen, do so in the appropriate section of the forum.
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Re: Why hasn't Earth broken apart so far?
« Reply #17 on: June 04, 2021, 11:59:47 AM »
Quote
Why would I do that? I already told you (this marks the fourth time) that this is not what's being claimed. If you're going to waste our time with low-effort strawmen, do so in the appropriate section of the forum.

Then what is being claimed?  Are traditional theories of gravitation compatible with FE or not?  The wiki says that they are not, clearly and explicitly.  You seem to be suggesting that they are.
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Re: Why hasn't Earth broken apart so far?
« Reply #18 on: June 04, 2021, 12:26:17 PM »
The wiki says that they are not, clearly and explicitly.
For the fifth time: you misunderstood this, because you hyperfixated on a single sentence in the lede. The reason I cannot help you is that I cannot force you to read further, or to exercise basic reading comprehension.

Are traditional theories of gravitation compatible with FE or not?
This strictly depends on what you mean by "compatible" - you have been using the term in two distinct meanings, seemingly interchangeably, but presumably with some awareness. Standardising this would be a good first step.
« Last Edit: June 04, 2021, 12:27:58 PM by Pete Svarrior »
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Re: Why hasn't Earth broken apart so far?
« Reply #19 on: June 04, 2021, 12:43:41 PM »
Quote
This strictly depends on what you mean by "compatible" - you have been using the term in two distinct meanings, seemingly interchangeably, but presumably with some awareness. Standardising this would be a good first step.

The standard dictionary definition will do.

1: capable of existing together in harmony
compatible theories
compatible people

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/compatible

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