[ImAnEngineerToo]

I don't quite understand why flat earthers have this notion that if one can't observe the actual cause of an effect, then the cause doesn't exist. For example, we know that germs are real because of the effect that various types of germs have on the human body and other bodies. Why do FErs sometimes claim that the earth is flat because they feel like they aren't moving, it appears flat, etc.

[jack44556677]

@iamanengineertoo

I don't quite understand why flat earthers have this notion that if one can't observe the actual cause of an effect, then the cause doesn't exist.

I'm no zeteticist/zetetic, but I think you may have misunderstood the premise a bit.

My, limited, understanding is that you objectively/unbiasedly collect observation/evidence and conclude/deduce/infer directly from that.  You do not speculate a cause, but rather look for correlation/causation in the data and allow it to lead you to a conclusion.

In general though, yes - in all empirical science of any kind - if you can't observe/measure something then it is not a part of science.  This applies to speculative "causes" and everything else.  If it can't be measured/observed then it can't be (empirical) science.

For example, we know that germs are real because of the effect that various types of germs have on the human body and other bodies.

We know that germs are real because of the ability to see/observe/measure them with the advent of the microscope.  We (pasteur) developed germ theory, in part, due to observing the effects they appeared to cause (of course, along with confirming and/or introducing their presence). Only AFTER knowing/measuring/observing that germs exist, could anyone speculate that they may be a cause of this or that - scientifically speaking.

Even today germ theory suffers from all the same problems it did originally.  For instance, we have staph and strepp all over our skin.  We have tetanus in our saliva.  The problem and cause of the sickness is obviously NOT the presence of the bacteria / virus / germ.  It is primarily to do with biological balance and immuno health.

Why do FErs sometimes claim that the earth is flat because they feel like they aren't moving, it appears flat, etc.

In the context of the zetetic flat earth society (not flat earth research at large), it is because those first hand observations/measurements are the basis for further deduction about the world.  It works that way in "standard" science too!  They DO tend to shun "i felt it" or "i saw it" as scientific "data", but the logic is identical.  The world does appear flat, and we do not feel any motion at rest.

[RhesusVX]

My, limited, understanding is that you objectively/unbiasedly collect observation/evidence and conclude/deduce/infer directly from that.  You do not speculate a cause, but rather look for correlation/causation in the data and allow it to lead you to a conclusion.

In general though, yes - in all empirical science of any kind - if you can't observe/measure something then it is not a part of science.  This applies to speculative "causes" and everything else.  If it can't be measured/observed then it can't be (empirical) science.

In the context of the zetetic flat earth society (not flat earth research at large), it is because those first hand observations/measurements are the basis for further deduction about the world.  It works that way in "standard" science too!  They DO tend to shun "i felt it" or "i saw it" as scientific "data", but the logic is identical.  The world does appear flat, and we do not feel any motion at rest.

Nicely put jack44556677, and to further expand on the whole "feeling flat" thing for the benefit of ImAnEngineerToo, the zetetic thinking will have gone something like (but don't quote as it may not be absolutely 100%!):

• Looking out of the window, my, that Earth sure does seem flat.
• Hey, the water in that glass looks flat, and stays level too no matter how you tilt the glass.
• Would you look at that?  The water in the bath is also flat.
• That lake over there.  It's huge, but it also looks flat.  I wonder if water is always flat?
• Looking out at Sea, it looks as flat as the lake and perfectly level in all directions.

Together that's a whole bunch of observations that one could reasonably form a conclusion from that the Earth itself must also be flat.  In the absence of anything else, that position can't really be refuted, and is the foundation to all of the other theories put forwards in FET.  Just like the advent of the telescope proved the existence of germs though, the advent of telescopes also confirmed an observation that as ships are going out to sea, they appeared to disappear from the bottom up.  This observation doesn't make sense on a flat surface, and so continues the scientific advancement and ongoing debate with all kinds of evidence and counter-evidence, theories and counter-theories being provided.

The notion that we are moving a thousand miles per hour on the surface, or a million miles per hour through the universe sounds preposterous, but as mentioned, we don't feel motion, only acceleration.  Again, it is easy to just assume that we are not moving, and that everything else around us must be.  It's only the applications of multiple other observations that one can reasonably conclude something different.