[Thork]

Well, first an apology for being largely absent recently. I didn't realise I would have so little time. I don't really see that changing in the near future.

Anyway, I wondered if a flat earth tool set might be a fun project for everyone. And it really would need everyone.

Essentially to provide tools on this site to make flat earth calculations. Maybe a model at the top of each page, and then a bunch of calculators below?

Example. The finite polar azimuthal disk model or Wilmore's dipole model. Put a map at the top of the page and then add various drop downs and input boxes to generate results. Examples, you put in two GPS co-ordinates and the calculator then tells you the distance between those points on both a flat earth and a round earth. It can then generate aircraft travel times or speed of light times from those numbers as well.
Maybe a calculator for FE astronomical distances calculating sun speed during different seasons. An interesting fact is that the sun has to travel faster during the NH winter than in Summer on a flat earth. A date would let you calculate its speed right now or on any day you choose to put in.

I see this as a project that can involve absolutely everyone.

Even the most ardent RErs can help with the mathematics (we have after all just added mathjax to the site), FErs would need to contribute with theories and how and why these things differ and the site administration would have what I think would be a fun task creating the various code to allow the calculators to function.

I think it would be a nice service for the site and provide a flat earth toolset that is so far completely lacking on the internet. It would also help to flesh out and modernise many of the theories by allowing computer aided calculations to help provoke discussions.

Its a 3 stage process.
1) Identify what things would make good FE calculations. What differs and why.
2) Actually perform the maths (make formulas) and write in such a way as a computer can interpret it.
3) Implement the code and host the tools on the site.

It was just a passing thought as I was swimming yesterday and wondered if it might give some bored and talented people something of a little project.

Any interest?

[spoon]

It seems like a big project, but I like the idea.

[Thork]

There is a lot of threads and discussion to come out of it.

Example the sun speed calculator. First you need to set out the solstice latitudes. Then extrapolate the actual latitude for 365.25 days to find the latitude on that date. Then work out the circumference of a its orbit at that latitude. Then work out its speed given one revolution in 24 hours. Its quite a sophisticated calculation.



But nothing compared with the example of working out FE distances from GPS points.

People come here to talk about FE theories. Well this would be very in depth and rather than a discussion that puts people at odds with each other (we say this, you say that) these would be debates where people work together to converge on a common goal. you will still get disagreement along the way, but should end up with a definitive conclusion to that thread.

Like I say, not easy, but certainly interesting along the way.

[Tintagel]

I'm interested.  I'm not a programmer, really, but I'd like to help any way I can.

[Tau]

I made some equations a while back for calculating distances and great circles on a flat earth. When I get home I'll dig around and see if I can find them. Although they shouldn't be that hard to recreate.

Also, let's add this to the to do list

[Lord Dave]

Don't we need certain things for this to be possible?  Like a map?

[Rama Set]

I made some equations a while back for calculating distances and great circles on a flat earth. When I get home I'll dig around and see if I can find them. Although they shouldn't be that hard to recreate.

Also, let's add this to the to do list

Isn't a FE generally a Euclidean plane?  Under what circumstances would a great circle be used? 

[Tau]

I made some equations a while back for calculating distances and great circles on a flat earth. When I get home I'll dig around and see if I can find them. Although they shouldn't be that hard to recreate.

Also, let's add this to the to do list

Isn't a FE generally a Euclidean plane?  Under what circumstances would a great circle be used?

Well, really I meant lines of latitude. Terminology mixup. I was tired.

Don't we need certain things for this to be possible?  Like a map?

We can make tools for all sorts of possible maps, really. I'd be interested in seeing what we can do with the bi-polar map, for example.

[Thork]

Don't we need certain things for this to be possible?  Like a map?

Read the OP. Then read the FAQ.

[Lord Dave]

Don't we need certain things for this to be possible?  Like a map?

Read the OP. Then read the FAQ.

You basically said "write math to determine distances without accurate distances to base it on".

You just can't pick two points on a picture, draw a line, and call that accurate.

[Thork]

Don't we need certain things for this to be possible?  Like a map?

Read the OP. Then read the FAQ.

You basically said "write math to determine distances without accurate distances to base it on".

You just can't pick two points on a picture, draw a line, and call that accurate.

The FAQ states the distances. Please take some time to read it.

[Lord Dave]

Don't we need certain things for this to be possible?  Like a map?

Read the OP. Then read the FAQ.

You basically said "write math to determine distances without accurate distances to base it on".

You just can't pick two points on a picture, draw a line, and call that accurate.

The FAQ states the distances. Please take some time to read it.

The FAQ states the distances of every point to every point?

[Thork]

Don't we need certain things for this to be possible?  Like a map?

Read the OP. Then read the FAQ.

You basically said "write math to determine distances without accurate distances to base it on".

You just can't pick two points on a picture, draw a line, and call that accurate.

The FAQ states the distances. Please take some time to read it.

The FAQ states the distances of every point to every point?

A tool such as the one suggested would allow you to perform such calculations.

There seems to be limited enthusiasm for this idea. Oh well.

[Tintagel]

Don't we need certain things for this to be possible?  Like a map?

Read the OP. Then read the FAQ.

You basically said "write math to determine distances without accurate distances to base it on".

You just can't pick two points on a picture, draw a line, and call that accurate.

The FAQ states the distances. Please take some time to read it.

The FAQ states the distances of every point to every point?

A tool such as the one suggested would allow you to perform such calculations.

There seems to be limited enthusiasm for this idea. Oh well.

I have enthusiasm, but I'm not a programmer. 

[inquisitive]

Don't we need certain things for this to be possible?  Like a map?

Read the OP. Then read the FAQ.

You basically said "write math to determine distances without accurate distances to base it on".

You just can't pick two points on a picture, draw a line, and call that accurate.

The FAQ states the distances. Please take some time to read it.

The FAQ states the distances of every point to every point?

A tool such as the one suggested would allow you to perform such calculations.

There seems to be limited enthusiasm for this idea. Oh well.

I can't think why.  So there would be two distances between two points, one verified...

[Tau]

Don't we need certain things for this to be possible?  Like a map?

Read the OP. Then read the FAQ.

You basically said "write math to determine distances without accurate distances to base it on".

You just can't pick two points on a picture, draw a line, and call that accurate.

The FAQ states the distances. Please take some time to read it.

The FAQ states the distances of every point to every point?

A tool such as the one suggested would allow you to perform such calculations.

There seems to be limited enthusiasm for this idea. Oh well.

I have enthusiasm, but I'm not a programmer.

Same. Presumably Pizza or Parsifal will post in here eventually

[Pete Svarrior]

Given that programming is only required for the last (and easiest) of stages, I don't think there's much point in acting like you need either of us to respond.

But yes, I'll happily implement some tools, provided there actually is anything to implement.

[Lord Dave]

Don't we need certain things for this to be possible?  Like a map?

Read the OP. Then read the FAQ.

You basically said "write math to determine distances without accurate distances to base it on".

You just can't pick two points on a picture, draw a line, and call that accurate.

The FAQ states the distances. Please take some time to read it.

The FAQ states the distances of every point to every point?

A tool such as the one suggested would allow you to perform such calculations.

There seems to be limited enthusiasm for this idea. Oh well.

Ok.  Right here type in the math to calculate the distance between London and Sydney.

[Thork]

Its simple trigonometry, Dave.

London is 0 degrees West/East. It is 51 degrees north.

Sydney is 151 degrees East and 33 degrees south.

Each degree is 60 nautical miles. Make a triangle.

angle 151 degrees. sides are (90-51) x 60) and ((90 x 60) +(33 x 60))

Bit of trig later


9,495 nautical miles. There is a fair bit of rounding on my part not using minutes etc but you see how its done. The round earth value is 9,174 nautical miles.

Hardly impossible to make a calculator, is it?

However, I don't want to generate all the answers. I'd rather the community got together and debated the calcs and the mathematics. This isn't Thork's flat earth society.

If a formula is arrived at, I'm sure me or Pizzaplanet can convert this to javascript or whatever their preference is.

[markjo]

Its simple trigonometry, Dave.

No, it's not quite as simple as you think, because...

Each degree is 60 nautical miles.

That's true only for degrees of latitude.  Degrees of longitude have no consistent value in RET or FET.

For the more common mono-pole FE map, you would be better off using polar geometry for your calculator.  For the bi-polar FE map, I have no idea of what kind of geometry would work.