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Other Discussion Boards => Philosophy, Religion & Society => Topic started by: Lord Dave on April 04, 2021, 06:09:55 AM

Title: New Georgia Law and Corporations
Post by: Lord Dave on April 04, 2021, 06:09:55 AM
https://www.npr.org/2021/04/03/984150680/georgia-governor-criticizes-mlb-for-buying-into-liberal-lies-about-new-election-

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/04/02/us/politics/georgia-voting-law-annotated.html

So basic summary:
Georgia enacted a law to change voting.  Alot of things shifted: What machines you can use, absentee ballot rules, ID requirements, where early voting and mail in voting ballots can be dropped off and when, registration rules, etc... 

Also: Its illegal to give out water or food to someone in line.  In Georgia.  So if I wanna walk around selling bottled water, I'm going to jail.  If I run up and give my friend a swig of my ice cold soda, I'm going to jail.

Some of it sounds good but its definitely something that poorer people are going to struggle with.  I think there would be far less backlash if they added in a provision to give everyone a state ID off the bat.  Or even just a voter ID.

Also not letting polling places get 3rd party funds... I'm ok with.  Provided the governor gives them the money they need. 

However, being able to remove election officials at will is... not a good thing.


And now I'm reading up on voting ID requirements.  Its not too bad.  But it also depends on where these  DDS Customer Service Centers are located and their hours.  Which is basic DMV style stuff.
They should have let these things be done at the Post Office.  Would have made this much easier for people.

Title: Re: New Georgia Law and Corporations
Post by: crutonius on April 04, 2021, 09:34:26 PM
I have a theory that the no water for people in lines thing is meant to distract from the fact that this bill basically gives the most extreme conservative part of the state government the power to override any election.
Title: Re: New Georgia Law and Corporations
Post by: Action80 on April 06, 2021, 11:08:33 AM
https://www.npr.org/2021/04/03/984150680/georgia-governor-criticizes-mlb-for-buying-into-liberal-lies-about-new-election-

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/04/02/us/politics/georgia-voting-law-annotated.html

So basic summary:
Georgia enacted a law to change voting.  Alot of things shifted: What machines you can use, absentee ballot rules, ID requirements, where early voting and mail in voting ballots can be dropped off and when, registration rules, etc... 

Also: Its illegal to give out water or food to someone in line.  In Georgia.  So if I wanna walk around selling bottled water, I'm going to jail.  If I run up and give my friend a swig of my ice cold soda, I'm going to jail.

Some of it sounds good but its definitely something that poorer people are going to struggle with.  I think there would be far less backlash if they added in a provision to give everyone a state ID off the bat.  Or even just a voter ID.

Also not letting polling places get 3rd party funds... I'm ok with.  Provided the governor gives them the money they need. 

However, being able to remove election officials at will is... not a good thing.


And now I'm reading up on voting ID requirements.  Its not too bad.  But it also depends on where these  DDS Customer Service Centers are located and their hours.  Which is basic DMV style stuff.
They should have let these things be done at the Post Office.  Would have made this much easier for people.
The water thing is pure bs.
Title: Re: New Georgia Law and Corporations
Post by: Lord Dave on April 06, 2021, 11:43:39 AM
https://www.npr.org/2021/04/03/984150680/georgia-governor-criticizes-mlb-for-buying-into-liberal-lies-about-new-election-

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/04/02/us/politics/georgia-voting-law-annotated.html

So basic summary:
Georgia enacted a law to change voting.  Alot of things shifted: What machines you can use, absentee ballot rules, ID requirements, where early voting and mail in voting ballots can be dropped off and when, registration rules, etc... 

Also: Its illegal to give out water or food to someone in line.  In Georgia.  So if I wanna walk around selling bottled water, I'm going to jail.  If I run up and give my friend a swig of my ice cold soda, I'm going to jail.

Some of it sounds good but its definitely something that poorer people are going to struggle with.  I think there would be far less backlash if they added in a provision to give everyone a state ID off the bat.  Or even just a voter ID.

Also not letting polling places get 3rd party funds... I'm ok with.  Provided the governor gives them the money they need. 

However, being able to remove election officials at will is... not a good thing.


And now I'm reading up on voting ID requirements.  Its not too bad.  But it also depends on where these  DDS Customer Service Centers are located and their hours.  Which is basic DMV style stuff.
They should have let these things be done at the Post Office.  Would have made this much easier for people.
The water thing is pure bs.

In what way? 
That they shouldn't have written it in or that it doesn't mean what everyone thinks it means and you, being a legal expert, can explain what it actually means?
Title: Re: New Georgia Law and Corporations
Post by: Action80 on April 07, 2021, 10:37:14 AM
https://www.npr.org/2021/04/03/984150680/georgia-governor-criticizes-mlb-for-buying-into-liberal-lies-about-new-election-

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/04/02/us/politics/georgia-voting-law-annotated.html

So basic summary:
Georgia enacted a law to change voting.  Alot of things shifted: What machines you can use, absentee ballot rules, ID requirements, where early voting and mail in voting ballots can be dropped off and when, registration rules, etc... 

Also: Its illegal to give out water or food to someone in line.  In Georgia.  So if I wanna walk around selling bottled water, I'm going to jail.  If I run up and give my friend a swig of my ice cold soda, I'm going to jail.

Some of it sounds good but its definitely something that poorer people are going to struggle with.  I think there would be far less backlash if they added in a provision to give everyone a state ID off the bat.  Or even just a voter ID.

Also not letting polling places get 3rd party funds... I'm ok with.  Provided the governor gives them the money they need. 

However, being able to remove election officials at will is... not a good thing.


And now I'm reading up on voting ID requirements.  Its not too bad.  But it also depends on where these  DDS Customer Service Centers are located and their hours.  Which is basic DMV style stuff.
They should have let these things be done at the Post Office.  Would have made this much easier for people.
The water thing is pure bs.

In what way? 
That they shouldn't have written it in or that it doesn't mean what everyone thinks it means and you, being a legal expert, can explain what it actually means?
In several ways.

The law doesn't state voters waiting cannot have water.

They can bring their own water. A family member can bring them water. A friend can bring them water.

The law states the election staff are not responsible to provide water (although many polls already have available fountains) and that people who are electioneers (People advocating for a specific party or candidate) cannot provide water.

Like I wrote, just a bs nothing burger.

Title: Re: New Georgia Law and Corporations
Post by: Action80 on April 07, 2021, 11:22:25 AM
And now I'm reading up on voting ID requirements.  Its not too bad.  But it also depends on where these  DDS Customer Service Centers are located and their hours.  Which is basic DMV style stuff.
They should have let these things be done at the Post Office.  Would have made this much easier for people.
The Post Office does not have the state employees on hand to handle voter registration.

Any person in any state can already register to vote via their motor vehicle department or their county courthouse.

The whole, "I cannot get an ID to vote," is also BS.

Title: Re: New Georgia Law and Corporations
Post by: Rama Set on April 07, 2021, 01:15:17 PM
In several ways.

The law doesn't state voters waiting cannot have water.

They can bring their own water. A family member can bring them water. A friend can bring them water.

I am not sure where in the code you are seeing that family or friends can bring water to an elector.

Quote
The law states the election staff are not responsible to provide water (although many polls already have available fountains) and that people who are electioneers (People advocating for a specific party or candidate) cannot provide water.

Not exactly, it says:

Quote
SECTION 33.
1868 Said chapter is further amended by revising subsections (a) and (e) of Code
1869 Section 21-2-414, relating to restrictions on campaign activities and public opinion polling
1870 within the vicinity of a polling place, cellular phone use prohibited, prohibition of candidates
1871 from entering certain polling places, and penalty, as follows:
1872 "(a) No person shall solicit votes in any manner or by any means or method, nor shall any
1873 person distribute or display any campaign material, nor shall any person give, offer to give,
1874 or participate in the giving of any money or gifts, including, but not limited to, food and
1875 drink, to an elector,
nor shall any person solicit signatures for any petition, nor shall any
1876 person, other than election officials discharging their duties, establish or set up any tables
1877 or booths on any day in which ballots are being cast:
1878 (1) Within 150 feet of the outer edge of any building within which a polling place is
1879 established;
1880 (2) Within any polling place; or
21 SB 202/AP
S. B. 202
- 74 -
1881 (3) Within 25 feet of any voter standing in line to vote at any polling place.
1882 These restrictions shall not apply to conduct occurring in private offices or areas which
1883 cannot be seen or heard by such electors."
1884 "(e) This Code section shall not be construed to prohibit a poll officer from distributing
1885 materials, as required by law, which are necessary for the purpose of instructing electors
1886 or from distributing materials prepared by the Secretary of State which are designed solely
1887 for the purpose of encouraging voter participation in the election being conducted or from
1888 making available self-service water from an unattended receptacle to an elector waiting in
1889 line to vote."

Source: https://static.foxnews.com/foxnews.com/content/uploads/2021/04/Georgia-election-law-SB-202.pdf

I bolded the relevant section to giving food and drink.  It does not say anything about the food or drink having to relate to the collection or solicitation of votes whereas every other clause does make specific mention of solicitation.  It is open to interpretation what soliciting votes is as well.  Also, who cares if a democrat gives an undecided voter water when they are waiting in line.  The GOP is really just hanging on by a thread because their policies are unpopular and they can't market themselves well so they really have no chance of winning an election without fuckery.
Title: Re: New Georgia Law and Corporations
Post by: Action80 on April 07, 2021, 03:28:22 PM
In several ways.

The law doesn't state voters waiting cannot have water.

They can bring their own water. A family member can bring them water. A friend can bring them water.

I am not sure where in the code you are seeing that family or friends can bring water to an elector.

Quote
The law states the election staff are not responsible to provide water (although many polls already have available fountains) and that people who are electioneers (People advocating for a specific party or candidate) cannot provide water.

Not exactly, it says:

Quote
SECTION 33.
1868 Said chapter is further amended by revising subsections (a) and (e) of Code
1869 Section 21-2-414, relating to restrictions on campaign activities and public opinion polling
1870 within the vicinity of a polling place, cellular phone use prohibited, prohibition of candidates
1871 from entering certain polling places, and penalty, as follows:
1872 "(a) No person shall solicit votes in any manner or by any means or method, nor shall any
1873 person distribute or display any campaign material, nor shall any person give, offer to give,
1874 or participate in the giving of any money or gifts, including, but not limited to, food and
1875 drink, to an elector,
nor shall any person solicit signatures for any petition, nor shall any
1876 person, other than election officials discharging their duties, establish or set up any tables
1877 or booths on any day in which ballots are being cast:
1878 (1) Within 150 feet of the outer edge of any building within which a polling place is
1879 established;
1880 (2) Within any polling place; or
21 SB 202/AP
S. B. 202
- 74 -
1881 (3) Within 25 feet of any voter standing in line to vote at any polling place.
1882 These restrictions shall not apply to conduct occurring in private offices or areas which
1883 cannot be seen or heard by such electors."
1884 "(e) This Code section shall not be construed to prohibit a poll officer from distributing
1885 materials, as required by law, which are necessary for the purpose of instructing electors
1886 or from distributing materials prepared by the Secretary of State which are designed solely
1887 for the purpose of encouraging voter participation in the election being conducted or from
1888 making available self-service water from an unattended receptacle to an elector waiting in
1889 line to vote."

Source: https://static.foxnews.com/foxnews.com/content/uploads/2021/04/Georgia-election-law-SB-202.pdf

I bolded the relevant section to giving food and drink.  It does not say anything about the food or drink having to relate to the collection or solicitation of votes whereas every other clause does make specific mention of solicitation.  It is open to interpretation what soliciting votes is as well.  Also, who cares if a democrat gives an undecided voter water when they are waiting in line.  The GOP is really just hanging on by a thread because their policies are unpopular and they can't market themselves well so they really have no chance of winning an election without fuckery.
Good thing the bolded section isn't the law signed by the governor.

The law in place states that electioneering groups cannot set up what is essentially picnic areas outside a polling station.

Neither you or the  OP have a clue about voting laws in the US if either of you are holding on to this silly idea that people, if they are even waiting in line to vote (having worked polling places for over 30 years, they typically do not need to wait more than 10 - 15 minutes on the outside of the range) cannot get a drink of water.

The real issue that needs to be driven home is this: A person too stupid to satisfy his/her own thirst shouldn't be allowed to vote.
Title: Re: New Georgia Law and Corporations
Post by: Rama Set on April 07, 2021, 04:15:20 PM
In several ways.

The law doesn't state voters waiting cannot have water.

They can bring their own water. A family member can bring them water. A friend can bring them water.

I am not sure where in the code you are seeing that family or friends can bring water to an elector.

Quote
The law states the election staff are not responsible to provide water (although many polls already have available fountains) and that people who are electioneers (People advocating for a specific party or candidate) cannot provide water.

Not exactly, it says:

Quote
SECTION 33.
1868 Said chapter is further amended by revising subsections (a) and (e) of Code
1869 Section 21-2-414, relating to restrictions on campaign activities and public opinion polling
1870 within the vicinity of a polling place, cellular phone use prohibited, prohibition of candidates
1871 from entering certain polling places, and penalty, as follows:
1872 "(a) No person shall solicit votes in any manner or by any means or method, nor shall any
1873 person distribute or display any campaign material, nor shall any person give, offer to give,
1874 or participate in the giving of any money or gifts, including, but not limited to, food and
1875 drink, to an elector,
nor shall any person solicit signatures for any petition, nor shall any
1876 person, other than election officials discharging their duties, establish or set up any tables
1877 or booths on any day in which ballots are being cast:
1878 (1) Within 150 feet of the outer edge of any building within which a polling place is
1879 established;
1880 (2) Within any polling place; or
21 SB 202/AP
S. B. 202
- 74 -
1881 (3) Within 25 feet of any voter standing in line to vote at any polling place.
1882 These restrictions shall not apply to conduct occurring in private offices or areas which
1883 cannot be seen or heard by such electors."
1884 "(e) This Code section shall not be construed to prohibit a poll officer from distributing
1885 materials, as required by law, which are necessary for the purpose of instructing electors
1886 or from distributing materials prepared by the Secretary of State which are designed solely
1887 for the purpose of encouraging voter participation in the election being conducted or from
1888 making available self-service water from an unattended receptacle to an elector waiting in
1889 line to vote."

Source: https://static.foxnews.com/foxnews.com/content/uploads/2021/04/Georgia-election-law-SB-202.pdf

I bolded the relevant section to giving food and drink.  It does not say anything about the food or drink having to relate to the collection or solicitation of votes whereas every other clause does make specific mention of solicitation.  It is open to interpretation what soliciting votes is as well.  Also, who cares if a democrat gives an undecided voter water when they are waiting in line.  The GOP is really just hanging on by a thread because their policies are unpopular and they can't market themselves well so they really have no chance of winning an election without fuckery.
Good thing the bolded section isn't the law signed by the governor.

It’s in SB202 so I don’t know what distinction you are trying to make.

Quote
The law in place states that electioneering groups cannot set up what is essentially picnic areas outside a polling station.

Incorrect.

Quote
Neither you or the  OP have a clue about voting laws in the US if either of you are holding on to this silly idea that people, if they are even waiting in line to vote (having worked polling places for over 30 years, they typically do not need to wait more than 10 - 15 minutes on the outside of the range) cannot get a drink of water.

Go on. Make up more shit I never said.

Quote
The real issue that needs to be driven home is this: A person too stupid to satisfy his/her own thirst shouldn't be allowed to vote.

That’s not how it works. You might want to live somewhere else if you think that.
Title: Re: New Georgia Law and Corporations
Post by: Tom Bishop on April 07, 2021, 04:27:12 PM
Quote from: Rama Set
I bolded the relevant section to giving food and drink.  It does not say anything about the food or drink having to relate to the collection or solicitation of votes whereas every other clause does make specific mention of solicitation.

Actually, what you quoted has a header that it applies to people campaigning and polling. Right at the top of what you quoted says that it applies to people campaigning:

Quote
Said chapter is further amended by revising subsections (a) and (e) of Code
Section 21-2-414, relating to restrictions on campaign activities and public opinion polling
within the vicinity of a polling place, cellular phone use prohibited, prohibition of candidates
from entering certain polling places, and penalty, as follows:

The food and drink point is in that section, after 'as follows' in (a).

Quote from: Rama Set
Also, who cares if a democrat gives an undecided voter water when they are waiting in line.

It is immoral to target a polling place where people are gathering to vote, to reach people who are otherwise not coming to your events.

Many of the positions on a city ballot are unknown and anonymous to voters. They are picking between two unknown people for some positions. People without information on the candidates may merely vote for 'Steve Garcia' as City Supervisor simply because he gave them a water bottle 10 minutes before they voted. This is not a legitimate way to campaign.
Title: Re: New Georgia Law and Corporations
Post by: Rama Set on April 07, 2021, 04:55:21 PM
Quote from: Rama Set
I bolded the relevant section to giving food and drink.  It does not say anything about the food or drink having to relate to the collection or solicitation of votes whereas every other clause does make specific mention of solicitation.

Actually, what you quoted has a header that it applies to people campaigning and polling. Right at the top of what you quoted says that it applies to people campaigning:

Quote
Said chapter is further amended by revising subsections (a) and (e) of Code
Section 21-2-414, relating to restrictions on campaign activities and public opinion polling
within the vicinity of a polling place, cellular phone use prohibited, prohibition of candidates
from entering certain polling places, and penalty, as follows:

The food and drink point is in that section, after 'as follows' in (a).

Yeah I got that, but there isn't an accompanying definition of what qualifies as electioneering or polling.  I think its probably something that will never be prosecuted, but it the legislation could stand to be clearer.

Quote
It is immoral to target a polling place where people are gathering to vote, to reach people who are otherwise not coming to your events.

This is extremely dramatic and also nonsensical.

Quote
Many of the positions on a city ballot are unknown and anonymous to voters. They are picking between two unknown people for some positions. People without information on the candidates may merely vote for 'Steve Garcia' as City Supervisor simply because he gave them a water bottle 10 minutes before they voted. This is not a legitimate way to campaign.

Ideally all campaigning would be done on issues and not marketing, but using marketing to campaign is absolutely legitimate.  If you wanted to have elections that were run solely on issues and by people who are qualified to hold the office they are running for, then why would you support Trump?
Title: Re: New Georgia Law and Corporations
Post by: Tom Bishop on April 07, 2021, 05:41:04 PM
Targeting a non-partisan polling place where people are gathering to vote and bribing them to vote for your partisan politics with food and water is a cheap tactic, and it is not surprising that very outspoken liberals here are in high favor of it.

There isn't really anything more to be said than it's wrong, and that you need to campaign fairly in a manner that doesn't involve targeting people just before they vote at a non-partisan government polling place, and in a way that does not involve giving them gifts to curry favor.
Title: Re: New Georgia Law and Corporations
Post by: Rama Set on April 07, 2021, 05:55:19 PM
Targeting a non-partisan polling place where people are gathering to vote and bribing them to vote for your partisan politics with food and water is a cheap tactic, and it is not surprising that very outspoken liberals here are in high favor of it.

There isn't really anything more to be said than it's wrong, and that you need to campaign fairly in a manner that doesn't involve targeting people just before they vote at a non-partisan government polling place, and in a way that does not involve giving them gifts to curry favor.

lol ok, Bom.  Those bastards gave out water!!!!  Is there nothing they won't do!?!  If both sides can do it, it isn't unfair is it?  I'm not surprised you will employ teenage dramatics to make it seem like giving out water is a horrible abuse of power.
Title: Re: New Georgia Law and Corporations
Post by: Tom Bishop on April 07, 2021, 06:03:10 PM
It has been illegal to campaign at polling places for quite a while. Candidates giving out food and water at polling places is just another form of campaigning. It is not their role to have any presence or influence at a non-partisan government polling place.

Maybe you are also in support of people putting up pictures of dead fetuses and signs that say things like "XX Supports Abortion up to the Moment of Birth" outside of polling places too, replete with gruesome imagery and horrid slogans, in an effort to disgust and disincentivize voters as they walk in to vote? Ludicrous.

Wrong on all counts. Candidates who attempt to exert influence or curry favor at a polling place in any manner is improper.
Title: Re: New Georgia Law and Corporations
Post by: Rama Set on April 07, 2021, 06:18:59 PM
It has been illegal to campaign at polling places for quite a while. Candidates giving out food and water at polling places is just another form of campaigning. It is not their role to have any presence or influence at a non-partisan government polling place.

Maybe it is, maybe it isn't.  As with most things in life, there is nuance.  Assuming that all distribution of water is necessarily an influence campaign is bereft of nuance.  You will understand one day.

Quote
Maybe you are also in support of people putting up pictures of dead fetuses and signs that say things like "XX Supports Abortion Up to the Moment of Birth" outside of polling places too, replete with gruesome imagery and horrid slogans, in an effort to disgust and disincentivize voters as they walk in to vote? Ludicrous.

Wrong on all counts. Candidates who attempt to exert influence or curry favor at a polling place in any manner is improper.

Interesting, I can sit back and just watch you argue with imaginary Rama Set.  Go on.
Title: Re: New Georgia Law and Corporations
Post by: Tom Bishop on April 07, 2021, 06:49:54 PM
If you are going to allow campaigning and gift giving and political influence at polling places then you have to also allow the abortion signs and gruesome imagery and dozens of people screaming at voters about abortion as voters walk in. Freedom of speech. Why not?
Title: Re: New Georgia Law and Corporations
Post by: Dr Van Nostrand on April 07, 2021, 06:52:41 PM
Understand that this move by Republicans has nothing to do with election integrity. 

Corruption in our electoral system has to do with gerrymandering, corporate money, ballot access laws. None of this is being addressed by the Republicans. This is about making it easier for the right people to vote and harder for the wrong people to vote. It is about the Republicans losing control of the state of Georgia and doing whatever it takes to regain it.
Title: Re: New Georgia Law and Corporations
Post by: Rama Set on April 07, 2021, 07:03:06 PM
Understand that this move by Republicans has nothing to do with election integrity. 

Corruption in our electoral system has to do with gerrymandering, corporate money, ballot access laws. None of this is being addressed by the Republicans. This is about making it easier for the right people to vote and harder for the wrong people to vote. It is about the Republicans losing control of the state of Georgia and doing whatever it takes to regain it.

And it’s playing out all over the country. Makes the never Trumpers seem like the most bipartisan people around.
Title: Re: New Georgia Law and Corporations
Post by: Roundy on April 07, 2021, 07:24:47 PM
Republicans have known their party was dying for years. They are getting more and more corrupt in general in their desperate bid to hold on to power. They're being more blatant now than ever in their attempts at voter suppression because they have no choice. And it will only get worse as the country gets less white.

I'm not saying the Republican Party is dying real soon, but it's dying, and it's only these desperate stabs at voter suppression that are keeping them relevant. One popular vote win in the last eight presidential contests is all you need to know to understand why they are so desperate.

It must be frustrating that they can't hide it anymore. I think that with social media and the publicity that's been generated around the Georgia voting laws more people are aware of what the Republicans are doing than ever before. It doesn't matter, because they will probably continue getting away with it, and they will definitely continue to be a dying entity. But at least we get entertaining little episodes like Mitch Mcconnell having conniptions over corporations daring to get involved in politics, after arguing just a few years ago that they should be treated as people and have that very right. We already knew that Mitch Mcconnell is a hypocrite; they all are. But I love these little reminders.
Title: Re: New Georgia Law and Corporations
Post by: Lord Dave on April 07, 2021, 09:08:13 PM
In several ways.

The law doesn't state voters waiting cannot have water.

They can bring their own water. A family member can bring them water. A friend can bring them water.

I am not sure where in the code you are seeing that family or friends can bring water to an elector.

Quote
The law states the election staff are not responsible to provide water (although many polls already have available fountains) and that people who are electioneers (People advocating for a specific party or candidate) cannot provide water.

Not exactly, it says:

Quote
SECTION 33.
1868 Said chapter is further amended by revising subsections (a) and (e) of Code
1869 Section 21-2-414, relating to restrictions on campaign activities and public opinion polling
1870 within the vicinity of a polling place, cellular phone use prohibited, prohibition of candidates
1871 from entering certain polling places, and penalty, as follows:
1872 "(a) No person shall solicit votes in any manner or by any means or method, nor shall any
1873 person distribute or display any campaign material, nor shall any person give, offer to give,
1874 or participate in the giving of any money or gifts, including, but not limited to, food and
1875 drink, to an elector,
nor shall any person solicit signatures for any petition, nor shall any
1876 person, other than election officials discharging their duties, establish or set up any tables
1877 or booths on any day in which ballots are being cast:
1878 (1) Within 150 feet of the outer edge of any building within which a polling place is
1879 established;
1880 (2) Within any polling place; or
21 SB 202/AP
S. B. 202
- 74 -
1881 (3) Within 25 feet of any voter standing in line to vote at any polling place.
1882 These restrictions shall not apply to conduct occurring in private offices or areas which
1883 cannot be seen or heard by such electors."
1884 "(e) This Code section shall not be construed to prohibit a poll officer from distributing
1885 materials, as required by law, which are necessary for the purpose of instructing electors
1886 or from distributing materials prepared by the Secretary of State which are designed solely
1887 for the purpose of encouraging voter participation in the election being conducted or from
1888 making available self-service water from an unattended receptacle to an elector waiting in
1889 line to vote."

Source: https://static.foxnews.com/foxnews.com/content/uploads/2021/04/Georgia-election-law-SB-202.pdf

I bolded the relevant section to giving food and drink.  It does not say anything about the food or drink having to relate to the collection or solicitation of votes whereas every other clause does make specific mention of solicitation.  It is open to interpretation what soliciting votes is as well.  Also, who cares if a democrat gives an undecided voter water when they are waiting in line.  The GOP is really just hanging on by a thread because their policies are unpopular and they can't market themselves well so they really have no chance of winning an election without fuckery.
Good thing the bolded section isn't the law signed by the governor.

The law in place states that electioneering groups cannot set up what is essentially picnic areas outside a polling station.

Neither you or the  OP have a clue about voting laws in the US if either of you are holding on to this silly idea that people, if they are even waiting in line to vote (having worked polling places for over 30 years, they typically do not need to wait more than 10 - 15 minutes on the outside of the range) cannot get a drink of water.

The real issue that needs to be driven home is this: A person too stupid to satisfy his/her own thirst shouldn't be allowed to vote.

Then please post the law the governor did sign.  Because rama posted what foxnews said is the law so.... Isn't that supposed to be trusted by you?

Also: 15 min. Lines are great.  This doesn't mean its the norm everywhere.  I realize you may have lived a sheltered life and I hate to shatter the illusion but... Well... Not every place in America is like the place you live.
Title: Re: New Georgia Law and Corporations
Post by: Tom Bishop on April 07, 2021, 09:21:40 PM
They're being more blatant now than ever in their attempts at voter suppression

How is preventing candidates from influencing voters at non-partisan polling places just before they vote considered voter suppression?

I notice that you guys have already given up on the line of argumentation that campaigns should be allowed to do that.
Title: Re: New Georgia Law and Corporations
Post by: Dr Van Nostrand on April 07, 2021, 09:48:18 PM
They're being more blatant now than ever in their attempts at voter suppression

How is preventing candidates from influencing voters at non-partisan polling places just before they vote considered voter suppression?

I notice that you guys have already given up on the line of argumentation that campaigns should be allowed to do that.

This wasn't an issue as long as Republicans were winning elections. Now that the Democrats are winning in Georgia, there's some kind of problem they have to legislate.
Title: Re: New Georgia Law and Corporations
Post by: Iceman on April 07, 2021, 10:09:10 PM
The funny thing is that many (most?) Left leaning people want ALL corporate money out of politics. Get the corporate lobbyists out of DC and prevent them from turning congressmen and women into millionaires.

Having a Democrat offer a republican a Dasani while hes waiting in the voting lines in Georgia isnt going to turn them from voting Red.
Title: Re: New Georgia Law and Corporations
Post by: Tom Bishop on April 07, 2021, 11:10:21 PM
This wasn't an issue as long as Republicans were winning elections. Now that the Democrats are winning in Georgia, there's some kind of problem they have to legislate.

I am pretty sure that they have been calling for "Voter ID" and similar things for many years regardless of whether R or D are in charge.
Title: Re: New Georgia Law and Corporations
Post by: Rama Set on April 07, 2021, 11:31:02 PM
This wasn't an issue as long as Republicans were winning elections. Now that the Democrats are winning in Georgia, there's some kind of problem they have to legislate.

I am pretty sure that they have been calling for "Voter ID" and similar things for many years regardless of whether R or D are in charge.

They have had a majority of state legislatures for years. Are they ineffective then? Or maybe many of them support Mitch McConnell’s notion of party before country and pass legislation that they think will get them more power?
Title: Re: New Georgia Law and Corporations
Post by: Tom Bishop on April 07, 2021, 11:54:14 PM
This wasn't an issue as long as Republicans were winning elections. Now that the Democrats are winning in Georgia, there's some kind of problem they have to legislate.

I am pretty sure that they have been calling for "Voter ID" and similar things for many years regardless of whether R or D are in charge.

They have had a majority of state legislatures for years. Are they ineffective then? Or maybe many of them support Mitch McConnell’s notion of party before country and pass legislation that they think will get them more power?

Most of the Republican controlled states do have ID laws - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voter_identification_laws_in_the_United_States

The Democrat controlled states do not appear to like requiring IDs to vote. I wonder why.
Title: Re: New Georgia Law and Corporations
Post by: Rama Set on April 08, 2021, 12:17:44 AM
This wasn't an issue as long as Republicans were winning elections. Now that the Democrats are winning in Georgia, there's some kind of problem they have to legislate.

I am pretty sure that they have been calling for "Voter ID" and similar things for many years regardless of whether R or D are in charge.

They have had a majority of state legislatures for years. Are they ineffective then? Or maybe many of them support Mitch McConnell’s notion of party before country and pass legislation that they think will get them more power?

Most of the Republican controlled states do have ID laws - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voter_identification_laws_in_the_United_States


Then when they lose they cry about how they need restrictions and use their loss to spin a narrative about how the system is out to get them so they keep passing stricter laws.  Its authoritarian and you looooove it.

Hilariously, Voter ID laws tend to have no effect either way.  This is really just a political play by both parties.
Title: Re: New Georgia Law and Corporations
Post by: Tom Bishop on April 08, 2021, 12:35:59 AM
You are just stating that these laws are bad and authoritarian without explaining why it is bad. Can you explain to us why Voter ID is so bad and authoritarian?
Title: Re: New Georgia Law and Corporations
Post by: Rama Set on April 08, 2021, 12:49:46 AM
You are just stating that these laws are bad and authoritarian without explaining why it is bad. Can you explain to us why Voter ID is so bad and authoritarian?

The laws aren't authoritarian, the GOP is.  When they lose they spread propaganda about how everyone is against them and then use that fear to pass stricter laws.  There isn't anything wrong with requiring Voter ID (as long as it is accesible to all citizens), just it doesn't solve any problems.
Title: Re: New Georgia Law and Corporations
Post by: Tom Bishop on April 08, 2021, 01:03:05 AM
How did you determine that it doesn't solve any problems? Clearly, if people know that they have to present ID, they are less likely to try to commit fraud.

https://www.heritage.org/election-integrity/commentary/new-study-confirms-voter-id-laws-dont-hurt-election-turnout

Quote
Research strongly underscores the fact that the certainty of being caught is one of the biggest factors in deterring crime. Without an understanding of their deterrent value, it is impossible to measure the effectiveness of ID laws.

The reality is, election fraud often goes undetected; even when it is discovered, investigators and prosecutors often opt to take no action. In other words, no reliable data exist on the true scope or frequency of fraud, and Heritage’s database can’t be treated as a proxy. Statistical claims based on the database should be treated with great skepticism.

Nor can voter fraud prosecutions be used to measure the overall scope of fraud. That reasoning was roundly rejected by the 7th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals in Crawford v. Marion County Election Board, a decision that the Supreme Court affirmed when it upheld Indiana’s voter ID law. The 7th Circuit opinion noted:

"But the absence of prosecutions is explained by the endemic under-enforcement of minor criminal laws (minor as they appear to the public and prosecutors, at all events) and by the extreme difficulty of apprehending a voter impersonator. He enters the polling places, gives a name that is not his own, votes, and leaves. If later it is discovered that the name he gave is that of a dead person, no one at the polling place will remember the face of the person who gave that name, and if someone did remember it, what would he do with the information? "

As the 7th Circuit said, such fraud “has a parallel to littering, another crime the perpetrators of which are almost impossible to catch.” 

When a lawbreaker is “almost impossible to catch,” states are faced with two options, according to the court: States may “impose a very severe criminal penalty” or “take preventative action, as Indiana had done by requiring a photo ID.”  And that law has been in place for more than a decade, with none of the problems critics predicted.

The researchers at the National Bureau of Economic Research also failed to realize that a voter ID requirement can stop other types of fraud in addition to impersonation of another voter. It potentially may prevent individuals from voting using false and fictitious registrations; prevent noncitizens from casting ballots; catch out-of-state residents who are registered in multiple states; and make absentee ballot fraud harder to commit in states such as Kansas that have extended the ID requirement to absentee ballots.

This latest research confirms that states are justified in enacting voter ID laws to protect their electoral integrity. Such laws don’t deter eligible voters from registering and voting, and they do not disenfranchise minority voters.
Title: Re: New Georgia Law and Corporations
Post by: Iceman on April 08, 2021, 01:07:54 AM
Is there a difference in rates of in-person voter fraud between states with strict ID requirements and those without?

Certainty of getting caught is a deterrent, sure, but is there a problem?
Title: Re: New Georgia Law and Corporations
Post by: Rama Set on April 08, 2021, 01:19:57 AM
Is there a difference in rates of in-person voter fraud between states with strict ID requirements and those without?

Certainty of getting caught is a deterrent, sure, but is there a problem?

Between 2000 and 2014 there was about 30 cases of voter impersonation over about 1 billion votes cast.  They don't do anything.
Title: Re: New Georgia Law and Corporations
Post by: Tom Bishop on April 08, 2021, 01:23:28 AM
Is there a difference in rates of in-person voter fraud between states with strict ID requirements and those without?

Certainty of getting caught is a deterrent, sure, but is there a problem?

Between 2000 and 2014 there was about 30 cases of voter impersonation over about 1 billion votes cast.  They don't do anything.

The above link I gave says that they don't bother pursuing it and that those statistics are consequently invalid.
Title: Re: New Georgia Law and Corporations
Post by: Iceman on April 08, 2021, 01:51:37 AM
The above link I gave says that they don't bother pursuing it and that those statistics are consequently invalid.

If they know what they aren't pursuing, then they should also have some idea of how much could be pursued or not.

I have been (very casually) following politics since I was young and I cant think of a single time that a major election was called into question over legitimate concerns of in person voter fraud.
Title: Re: New Georgia Law and Corporations
Post by: Lord Dave on April 08, 2021, 03:51:52 AM
.

Having a Democrat offer a republican a Dasani while hes waiting in the voting lines in Georgia isnt going to turn them from voting Red.

Maybe it will.
Maybe republican voters have become so manipulable that "vote blue and get a water" is all it takes to switch em from red to blue.
Title: Re: New Georgia Law and Corporations
Post by: Rama Set on April 08, 2021, 10:39:50 AM
The above link I gave says that they don't bother pursuing it and that those statistics are consequently invalid.

They assert that the laws are underprosecuted, not that incidences of fraud go undetected.  Its a night and day difference.
Title: Re: New Georgia Law and Corporations
Post by: Action80 on April 08, 2021, 10:46:54 AM
In several ways.

The law doesn't state voters waiting cannot have water.

They can bring their own water. A family member can bring them water. A friend can bring them water.

I am not sure where in the code you are seeing that family or friends can bring water to an elector.

Quote
The law states the election staff are not responsible to provide water (although many polls already have available fountains) and that people who are electioneers (People advocating for a specific party or candidate) cannot provide water.

Not exactly, it says:

Quote
SECTION 33.
1868 Said chapter is further amended by revising subsections (a) and (e) of Code
1869 Section 21-2-414, relating to restrictions on campaign activities and public opinion polling
1870 within the vicinity of a polling place, cellular phone use prohibited, prohibition of candidates
1871 from entering certain polling places, and penalty, as follows:
1872 "(a) No person shall solicit votes in any manner or by any means or method, nor shall any
1873 person distribute or display any campaign material, nor shall any person give, offer to give,
1874 or participate in the giving of any money or gifts, including, but not limited to, food and
1875 drink, to an elector,
nor shall any person solicit signatures for any petition, nor shall any
1876 person, other than election officials discharging their duties, establish or set up any tables
1877 or booths on any day in which ballots are being cast:
1878 (1) Within 150 feet of the outer edge of any building within which a polling place is
1879 established;
1880 (2) Within any polling place; or
21 SB 202/AP
S. B. 202
- 74 -
1881 (3) Within 25 feet of any voter standing in line to vote at any polling place.
1882 These restrictions shall not apply to conduct occurring in private offices or areas which
1883 cannot be seen or heard by such electors."
1884 "(e) This Code section shall not be construed to prohibit a poll officer from distributing
1885 materials, as required by law, which are necessary for the purpose of instructing electors
1886 or from distributing materials prepared by the Secretary of State which are designed solely
1887 for the purpose of encouraging voter participation in the election being conducted or from
1888 making available self-service water from an unattended receptacle to an elector waiting in
1889 line to vote."

Source: https://static.foxnews.com/foxnews.com/content/uploads/2021/04/Georgia-election-law-SB-202.pdf

I bolded the relevant section to giving food and drink.  It does not say anything about the food or drink having to relate to the collection or solicitation of votes whereas every other clause does make specific mention of solicitation.  It is open to interpretation what soliciting votes is as well.  Also, who cares if a democrat gives an undecided voter water when they are waiting in line.  The GOP is really just hanging on by a thread because their policies are unpopular and they can't market themselves well so they really have no chance of winning an election without fuckery.
Good thing the bolded section isn't the law signed by the governor.

The law in place states that electioneering groups cannot set up what is essentially picnic areas outside a polling station.

Neither you or the  OP have a clue about voting laws in the US if either of you are holding on to this silly idea that people, if they are even waiting in line to vote (having worked polling places for over 30 years, they typically do not need to wait more than 10 - 15 minutes on the outside of the range) cannot get a drink of water.

The real issue that needs to be driven home is this: A person too stupid to satisfy his/her own thirst shouldn't be allowed to vote.

Then please post the law the governor did sign.  Because rama posted what foxnews said is the law so.... Isn't that supposed to be trusted by you?

Also: 15 min. Lines are great.  This doesn't mean its the norm everywhere.  I realize you may have lived a sheltered life and I hate to shatter the illusion but... Well... Not every place in America is like the place you live.
Yeah, it pretty much does.

"Surveying 3,119 precincts, the center found that the average voting wait time in 2018 for precincts with 10% or less non-white voters was 5.1 minutes, and the median was 3.6 minutes. In precincts with 90% or more non-white voters, the average wait time was 32.4 minutes and the median was 13.3 minutes."

So yeah, 10 - 15 minutes to be expected for the max.
Title: Re: New Georgia Law and Corporations
Post by: Lord Dave on April 08, 2021, 11:15:49 AM
In several ways.

The law doesn't state voters waiting cannot have water.

They can bring their own water. A family member can bring them water. A friend can bring them water.

I am not sure where in the code you are seeing that family or friends can bring water to an elector.

Quote
The law states the election staff are not responsible to provide water (although many polls already have available fountains) and that people who are electioneers (People advocating for a specific party or candidate) cannot provide water.

Not exactly, it says:

Quote
SECTION 33.
1868 Said chapter is further amended by revising subsections (a) and (e) of Code
1869 Section 21-2-414, relating to restrictions on campaign activities and public opinion polling
1870 within the vicinity of a polling place, cellular phone use prohibited, prohibition of candidates
1871 from entering certain polling places, and penalty, as follows:
1872 "(a) No person shall solicit votes in any manner or by any means or method, nor shall any
1873 person distribute or display any campaign material, nor shall any person give, offer to give,
1874 or participate in the giving of any money or gifts, including, but not limited to, food and
1875 drink, to an elector,
nor shall any person solicit signatures for any petition, nor shall any
1876 person, other than election officials discharging their duties, establish or set up any tables
1877 or booths on any day in which ballots are being cast:
1878 (1) Within 150 feet of the outer edge of any building within which a polling place is
1879 established;
1880 (2) Within any polling place; or
21 SB 202/AP
S. B. 202
- 74 -
1881 (3) Within 25 feet of any voter standing in line to vote at any polling place.
1882 These restrictions shall not apply to conduct occurring in private offices or areas which
1883 cannot be seen or heard by such electors."
1884 "(e) This Code section shall not be construed to prohibit a poll officer from distributing
1885 materials, as required by law, which are necessary for the purpose of instructing electors
1886 or from distributing materials prepared by the Secretary of State which are designed solely
1887 for the purpose of encouraging voter participation in the election being conducted or from
1888 making available self-service water from an unattended receptacle to an elector waiting in
1889 line to vote."

Source: https://static.foxnews.com/foxnews.com/content/uploads/2021/04/Georgia-election-law-SB-202.pdf

I bolded the relevant section to giving food and drink.  It does not say anything about the food or drink having to relate to the collection or solicitation of votes whereas every other clause does make specific mention of solicitation.  It is open to interpretation what soliciting votes is as well.  Also, who cares if a democrat gives an undecided voter water when they are waiting in line.  The GOP is really just hanging on by a thread because their policies are unpopular and they can't market themselves well so they really have no chance of winning an election without fuckery.
Good thing the bolded section isn't the law signed by the governor.

The law in place states that electioneering groups cannot set up what is essentially picnic areas outside a polling station.

Neither you or the  OP have a clue about voting laws in the US if either of you are holding on to this silly idea that people, if they are even waiting in line to vote (having worked polling places for over 30 years, they typically do not need to wait more than 10 - 15 minutes on the outside of the range) cannot get a drink of water.

The real issue that needs to be driven home is this: A person too stupid to satisfy his/her own thirst shouldn't be allowed to vote.

Then please post the law the governor did sign.  Because rama posted what foxnews said is the law so.... Isn't that supposed to be trusted by you?

Also: 15 min. Lines are great.  This doesn't mean its the norm everywhere.  I realize you may have lived a sheltered life and I hate to shatter the illusion but... Well... Not every place in America is like the place you live.
Yeah, it pretty much does.

"Surveying 3,119 precincts, the center found that the average voting wait time in 2018 for precincts with 10% or less non-white voters was 5.1 minutes, and the median was 3.6 minutes. In precincts with 90% or more non-white voters, the average wait time was 32.4 minutes and the median was 13.3 minutes."

So yeah, 10 - 15 minutes to be expected for the max.

.... What about precints with 11-89% non-whites?
You know... Most of the country?
Also 2018 was not a presidential election year so voter turnout is much lower, typically.  Match it to 2020.

Also, still waiting for the actual law the governor signed, not the one foxnews said he did.
Title: Re: New Georgia Law and Corporations
Post by: Rama Set on April 08, 2021, 11:44:24 AM
That is GA Senate Bill 202 which the governor signed on March 25th.  I am not sure what game Lackey is playing or if he is just ignorant.
Title: Re: New Georgia Law and Corporations
Post by: Action80 on April 08, 2021, 11:59:23 AM
In several ways.

The law doesn't state voters waiting cannot have water.

They can bring their own water. A family member can bring them water. A friend can bring them water.

I am not sure where in the code you are seeing that family or friends can bring water to an elector.

Quote
The law states the election staff are not responsible to provide water (although many polls already have available fountains) and that people who are electioneers (People advocating for a specific party or candidate) cannot provide water.

Not exactly, it says:

Quote
SECTION 33.
1868 Said chapter is further amended by revising subsections (a) and (e) of Code
1869 Section 21-2-414, relating to restrictions on campaign activities and public opinion polling
1870 within the vicinity of a polling place, cellular phone use prohibited, prohibition of candidates
1871 from entering certain polling places, and penalty, as follows:
1872 "(a) No person shall solicit votes in any manner or by any means or method, nor shall any
1873 person distribute or display any campaign material, nor shall any person give, offer to give,
1874 or participate in the giving of any money or gifts, including, but not limited to, food and
1875 drink, to an elector,
nor shall any person solicit signatures for any petition, nor shall any
1876 person, other than election officials discharging their duties, establish or set up any tables
1877 or booths on any day in which ballots are being cast:
1878 (1) Within 150 feet of the outer edge of any building within which a polling place is
1879 established;
1880 (2) Within any polling place; or
21 SB 202/AP
S. B. 202
- 74 -
1881 (3) Within 25 feet of any voter standing in line to vote at any polling place.
1882 These restrictions shall not apply to conduct occurring in private offices or areas which
1883 cannot be seen or heard by such electors."
1884 "(e) This Code section shall not be construed to prohibit a poll officer from distributing
1885 materials, as required by law, which are necessary for the purpose of instructing electors
1886 or from distributing materials prepared by the Secretary of State which are designed solely
1887 for the purpose of encouraging voter participation in the election being conducted or from
1888 making available self-service water from an unattended receptacle to an elector waiting in
1889 line to vote."

Source: https://static.foxnews.com/foxnews.com/content/uploads/2021/04/Georgia-election-law-SB-202.pdf

I bolded the relevant section to giving food and drink.  It does not say anything about the food or drink having to relate to the collection or solicitation of votes whereas every other clause does make specific mention of solicitation.  It is open to interpretation what soliciting votes is as well.  Also, who cares if a democrat gives an undecided voter water when they are waiting in line.  The GOP is really just hanging on by a thread because their policies are unpopular and they can't market themselves well so they really have no chance of winning an election without fuckery.
Good thing the bolded section isn't the law signed by the governor.

The law in place states that electioneering groups cannot set up what is essentially picnic areas outside a polling station.

Neither you or the  OP have a clue about voting laws in the US if either of you are holding on to this silly idea that people, if they are even waiting in line to vote (having worked polling places for over 30 years, they typically do not need to wait more than 10 - 15 minutes on the outside of the range) cannot get a drink of water.

The real issue that needs to be driven home is this: A person too stupid to satisfy his/her own thirst shouldn't be allowed to vote.

Then please post the law the governor did sign.  Because rama posted what foxnews said is the law so.... Isn't that supposed to be trusted by you?

Also: 15 min. Lines are great.  This doesn't mean its the norm everywhere.  I realize you may have lived a sheltered life and I hate to shatter the illusion but... Well... Not every place in America is like the place you live.
Yeah, it pretty much does.

"Surveying 3,119 precincts, the center found that the average voting wait time in 2018 for precincts with 10% or less non-white voters was 5.1 minutes, and the median was 3.6 minutes. In precincts with 90% or more non-white voters, the average wait time was 32.4 minutes and the median was 13.3 minutes."

So yeah, 10 - 15 minutes to be expected for the max.

.... What about precints with 11-89% non-whites?
You know... Most of the country?
What the hell are you going on about?

Precincts with non-whites is addressed in the quote.
Also, still waiting for the actual law the governor signed, not the one foxnews said he did.
That is GA Senate Bill 202 which the governor signed on March 25th.  I am not sure what game Lackey is playing or if he is just ignorant.
And you are correct.

That is the bill signed, but as pointed out by Tom and myself, people can have water while waiting in line for 15, 20, or 40 DAYS AND 40 NIGHTS, for those downtrodden, unfortunate masses who are subjected to such horrors. It is just electioneers who cannot provide it for them.

You both are so funny.

When can we expect the next touring dates announcement?
Title: Re: New Georgia Law and Corporations
Post by: Tumeni on April 08, 2021, 01:03:28 PM
The extracted text as posted above reads to me that the giving of food and drink is only prohibited within 150 feet (50 yards) of the polling place or within the polling place itself.

So it seems it's OK to give out whatever you want outwith this distance.
Title: Re: New Georgia Law and Corporations
Post by: Lord Dave on April 08, 2021, 01:14:51 PM
The stats you gave, lackey, were for areas with mostly non-whites and mostly whites.  What about areas with say... 50% whites and 50% non-whites?

Also, no one is saying you can't have water.  We know the law doesn't say that.  But it does seem to say someome can't give you water.  Which, again, makes no sense.  Its like one of those laws that isn't enforced unless you want to stop someone.  Like if a BLM person starts passing out free water, a cop can stop them.  Or ignore it.
Title: Re: New Georgia Law and Corporations
Post by: Rama Set on April 08, 2021, 01:32:49 PM
The stats you gave, lackey, were for areas with mostly non-whites and mostly whites.  What about areas with say... 50% whites and 50% non-whites?

Also, no one is saying you can't have water.  We know the law doesn't say that.  But it does seem to say someome can't give you water.  Which, again, makes no sense.  Its like one of those laws that isn't enforced unless you want to stop someone.  Like if a BLM person starts passing out free water, a cop can stop them.  Or ignore it.

There also isnt a clear definition for someone who is soliciting votes or polling public opinion which makes it abusable.  I don't think it's a huge deal but it could be and it would have been wise to clear up some of that language.
Title: Re: New Georgia Law and Corporations
Post by: Action80 on April 08, 2021, 03:30:58 PM
The stats you gave, lackey, were for areas with mostly non-whites and mostly whites.  What about areas with say... 50% whites and 50% non-whites?

Also, no one is saying you can't have water.  We know the law doesn't say that.  But it does seem to say someome can't give you water.  Which, again, makes no sense.  Its like one of those laws that isn't enforced unless you want to stop someone.  Like if a BLM person starts passing out free water, a cop can stop them.  Or ignore it.
Why are you calling me lackey?

It says that people who are electioneers (i.e., those persons engaged in stumping for a party or specific candidate) cannot engage in handing out water.

I know about electioneering. As stated earlier, I have 30 years of service in working polling places, as a judge, sheriff, clerk, etc. People do like to try to set up camp and have cookouts and luaus and other such shindigs at these voting places and campaign at the polling place. That is against the law and law enforcement is called as soon as it happens (if within a certain distance of the entrance to the voting machine). All this whining over the law being somehow unjust is typical bs.

The stats you gave, lackey, were for areas with mostly non-whites and mostly whites.  What about areas with say... 50% whites and 50% non-whites?

Also, no one is saying you can't have water.  We know the law doesn't say that.  But it does seem to say someome can't give you water.  Which, again, makes no sense.  Its like one of those laws that isn't enforced unless you want to stop someone.  Like if a BLM person starts passing out free water, a cop can stop them.  Or ignore it.

There also isnt a clear definition for someone who is soliciting votes or polling public opinion which makes it abusable.  I don't think it's a huge deal but it could be and it would have been wise to clear up some of that language.
Seems clear to me that solicitation of votes and polling public opinion is well defined by the words themselves.
Title: Re: New Georgia Law and Corporations
Post by: Rama Set on April 08, 2021, 03:39:42 PM
Why are you calling me lackey?

Because everyone knows you came back under this handle after you rage quit as Total Lackey.

Quote
Seems clear to me that solicitation of votes and polling public opinion is well defined by the words themselves.

I see you don't care to think about this beyond whatever serves your narrative.  Too bad.
Title: Re: New Georgia Law and Corporations
Post by: Tumeni on April 08, 2021, 03:42:51 PM
The original code is clearly concerned with distribution of campaign material to, and polling those, in line. The new version, in saying that no person shall distribute food and drink, is vague in that food & drink of itself has no campaign affiliation. It also is unclear on how or whether it could possibly be determined that the person distributing it is doing so as part of campaign activity.

Does the revised text prohibit all persons, or only those engaged in campaigning, from distributing food & drink? Tom clearly asserts that it would not be illegal to do so, were the person not campaigning.  If the person distributing is clearly not a campaigner, it would appear they have free reign to hand out.
 

Quotes for clarity;

The revision is to subsections (a) and (e) of Code 1869 Section 21-2-414 which, according to https://law.justia.com/codes/georgia/2010/title-21/chapter-2/article-11/part-1/21-2-414/ , currently reads as follows;

Quote
2010 Georgia Code
TITLE 21 - ELECTIONS
CHAPTER 2 - ELECTIONS AND PRIMARIES GENERALLY
ARTICLE 11 - PREPARATION FOR AND CONDUCT OF PRIMARIES AND ELECTIONS
PART 1 - GENERAL PROVISIONS
§ 21-2-414 - Restrictions on campaign activities and public opinion polling within the vicinity of a polling place; cellular phone use prohibited; prohibition of candidates from entering certain polling places; penalty

O.C.G.A. 21-2-414 (2010)
21-2-414. Restrictions on campaign activities and public opinion polling within the vicinity of a polling place; cellular phone use prohibited; prohibition of candidates from entering certain polling places; penalty


(a) No person shall solicit votes in any manner or by any means or method, nor shall any person distribute or display any campaign literature, newspaper, booklet, pamphlet, card, sign, paraphernalia, or any other written or printed matter of any kind, nor shall any person solicit signatures for any petition or conduct any exit poll or public opinion poll with voters on any day in which ballots are being cast:

(1) Within 150 feet of the outer edge of any building within which a polling place is established;

(2) Within any polling place; or

(3) Within 25 feet of any voter standing in line to vote at any polling place.

These restrictions shall not apply to conduct occurring in private offices or areas which cannot be seen or heard by such electors.

(b) to (d) snipped

(e) This Code section shall not be construed to prohibit a poll officer from distributing materials ...

Subsections a and e are amended to;

Quote
(a) No person shall solicit votes in any manner or by any means or method, nor shall any person distribute or display any campaign material, nor shall any person give, offer to give, or participate in the giving of any money or gifts, including, but not limited to, food and drink, to an elector, nor shall any person solicit signatures for any petition, nor shall any person, other than election officials discharging their duties, establish or set up any tables or booths on any day in which ballots are being cast:
(1) Within 150 feet of the outer edge of any building within which a polling place is established;
(2) Within any polling place; or
(3) Within 25 feet of any voter standing in line to vote at any polling place.
These restrictions shall not apply to conduct occurring in private offices or areas which cannot be seen or heard by such electors."

(e) This Code section shall not be construed to prohibit a poll officer from distributing materials, as required by law, which are necessary for the purpose of instructing electors or from distributing materials prepared by the Secretary of State which are designed solely for the purpose of encouraging voter participation in the election being conducted or from making available self-service water from an unattended receptacle to an elector waiting in line to vote."

Title: Re: New Georgia Law and Corporations
Post by: Action80 on April 08, 2021, 03:49:25 PM
Why are you calling me lackey?

Because everyone knows you came back under this handle after you rage quit as Total Lackey.
Weird, I happen to be a part of the set known as everyone and I don't know this.

Quote
Seems clear to me that solicitation of votes and polling public opinion is well defined by the words themselves.

I see you don't care to think about this beyond whatever serves your narrative.  Too bad.
I see you trying to sell some narrative of people dying of thirst at polling places and sorry, I don't buy that bs.
Title: Re: New Georgia Law and Corporations
Post by: Rama Set on April 08, 2021, 03:57:14 PM
Weird, I happen to be a part of the set known as everyone and I don't know this.

Riiiiiiiight

Quote
I see you trying to sell some narrative of people dying of thirst at polling places and sorry, I don't buy that bs.

I have actually said multiple times I don't think its a huge deal.  Stop making shit up, Lackey.
Title: Re: New Georgia Law and Corporations
Post by: Dr Van Nostrand on April 08, 2021, 06:39:51 PM
For years, the Republican party used their majority in Georgia to chop up black neighborhoods and poor parts of towns to break up their voting block power.  Everything they do is about holding onto their power. They would never do anything that would make voting more transparent or accessible for the general public. Anyone with such a storied career in public service and politics would know that.

This entire bill is more of the same and this arguing over water is just more crap to hide what they're really doing.


Title: Re: New Georgia Law and Corporations
Post by: Action80 on April 08, 2021, 07:16:56 PM
Weird, I happen to be a part of the set known as everyone and I don't know this.

Riiiiiiiight

Quote
I see you trying to sell some narrative of people dying of thirst at polling places and sorry, I don't buy that bs.

I have actually said multiple times I don't think its a huge deal.  Stop making shit up, Lackey.
Actually, the last thing you wrote was that it could become a huge deal.

It already is kind of a huge deal in the US due to the critical race theory garbage substituting for meritocracy.

You know, the kind of stuff you and the good doctor immediately posting above love to push as being legitimate.

"Yeah, I know I do all kinds of stuff, like lie, cheat, steal, drugs on a regular basis without seeking qualified treatment, and yeah, I have a prison record a mile and a half long" = "RACISM BY THE WHITE GUY!!!"
Title: Re: New Georgia Law and Corporations
Post by: Tumeni on April 08, 2021, 10:22:36 PM
... the last thing you wrote was that it could become a huge deal.

I think the huge deal is that the legislation is unclear. On the face of it, it reads in isolation that anyone handing out food and drink would be committing a felony. But, as Tom points out, and as the legislation reads in totality, the subsection is concerned with campaigning activity, so it reads that way as if people could only be charged if they were doing the handing out as part of campaign activity.

How do you read it?
Title: Re: New Georgia Law and Corporations
Post by: Rama Set on April 08, 2021, 10:33:00 PM
Actually, the last thing you wrote was that it could become a huge deal.

Very good. You finally figured out what I wrote. Too bad you are assuming it means something it doesn’t.

Quote
It already is kind of a huge deal in the US due to the critical race theory garbage substituting for meritocracy.

You know, the kind of stuff you and the good doctor immediately posting above love to push as being legitimate.

There you go making shit up again.

Quote
"Yeah, I know I do all kinds of stuff, like lie, cheat, steal,

They let Trump vote too!

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drugs on a regular basis without seeking qualified treatment,

1920s guy thinks drugs are baaaaad.

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and yeah, I have a prison record a mile and a half long" = "RACISM BY THE WHITE GUY!!!"

Why should a felon who has served their time continue to be deprived of their constitutional rights?

Or do you just have zero regard for the constitution when it’s people you don’t like?
Title: Re: New Georgia Law and Corporations
Post by: Action80 on April 09, 2021, 10:29:08 AM
... the last thing you wrote was that it could become a huge deal.

I think the huge deal is that the legislation is unclear. On the face of it, it reads in isolation that anyone handing out food and drink would be committing a felony. But, as Tom points out, and as the legislation reads in totality, the subsection is concerned with campaigning activity, so it reads that way as if people could only be charged if they were doing the handing out as part of campaign activity.

How do you read it?
I read it as you are not allowed to electioneer within a certain amount of distance of the polling area.

I also read it as Rama and Dave not knowing how to interpret legislation and making a big deal about some people going to die from thirst while waiting in line for 15 minutes waiting to vote.
Title: Re: New Georgia Law and Corporations
Post by: Tumeni on April 09, 2021, 11:09:00 AM
I read it as you are not allowed to electioneer within a certain amount of distance of the polling area.

So in your view, it's not an offence for a random member of the public to give something to someone in line?
Title: Re: New Georgia Law and Corporations
Post by: Action80 on April 09, 2021, 11:40:42 AM
I read it as you are not allowed to electioneer within a certain amount of distance of the polling area.

So in your view, it's not an offence for a random member of the public to give something to someone in line?
It never has been against the law for people to give things to other people in line.

That happens all the time, I'm sure.

This law strictly defines what electioneers cannot do.
Title: Re: New Georgia Law and Corporations
Post by: Lord Dave on April 09, 2021, 12:02:55 PM
I read it as you are not allowed to electioneer within a certain amount of distance of the polling area.

So in your view, it's not an offence for a random member of the public to give something to someone in line?
It never has been against the law for people to give things to other people in line.

That happens all the time, I'm sure.

This law strictly defines what electioneers cannot do.

If thats all it is then its probably fine.  Especially if its within 150ft only. 

Also:
That 15 min. Wait time was calculated in 2018, a year voter turnout is often lowest.
Also nation wide.  Also for a small segment of areas. (High minority, low minority).

https://www.npr.org/2020/10/17/924527679/why-do-nonwhite-georgia-voters-have-to-wait-in-line-for-hours-too-few-polling-pl?t=1617969656101

5 hours.  For a primary.  And since the precinct is only 88% non-white, it wouldn't fall in your statistic, which only counted 90% or more of non-white precincts.
Title: Re: New Georgia Law and Corporations
Post by: Action80 on April 09, 2021, 12:42:41 PM
I read it as you are not allowed to electioneer within a certain amount of distance of the polling area.

So in your view, it's not an offence for a random member of the public to give something to someone in line?
It never has been against the law for people to give things to other people in line.

That happens all the time, I'm sure.

This law strictly defines what electioneers cannot do.

If thats all it is then its probably fine.  Especially if its within 150ft only. 

Also:
That 15 min. Wait time was calculated in 2018, a year voter turnout is often lowest.
Also nation wide.  Also for a small segment of areas. (High minority, low minority).

https://www.npr.org/2020/10/17/924527679/why-do-nonwhite-georgia-voters-have-to-wait-in-line-for-hours-too-few-polling-pl?t=1617969656101

5 hours.  For a primary.  And since the precinct is only 88% non-white, it wouldn't fall in your statistic, which only counted 90% or more of non-white precincts.
Highest midterm turnout (likely ever) as a matter of fact.

Cute story by npr. Leaves out a lot of the issues actually in play.

Inept workers not following election law currently in place (purposefully, more than likely) resulting in the outrageous tale thus becoming necessary to be told.

I don't care what study you link to or how many npr cases to be offered.

10-15 minutes of wait time is likely to be the most time to wait at any polling booth in the US.

And if you're in a place that has inept morons who don't know what the fuck they are talking about or doing (typically those areas run by Democrats, as described by npr), call a sheriff and demand them to enforce the election law.
Title: Re: New Georgia Law and Corporations
Post by: Dr Van Nostrand on April 09, 2021, 12:51:47 PM
Actually, the last thing you wrote was that it could become a huge deal.

It already is kind of a huge deal in the US due to the critical race theory garbage substituting for meritocracy.

You know, the kind of stuff you and the good doctor immediately posting above love to push as being legitimate.

"Yeah, I know I do all kinds of stuff, like lie, cheat, steal, drugs on a regular basis without seeking qualified treatment, and yeah, I have a prison record a mile and a half long" = "RACISM BY THE WHITE GUY!!!"

That's what this is really about for the Trump Republicans. They feel they losing their grip on power and the mongrels are rising. They see voting laws as defending their hard working, white, Christian family values from us libtards. (Libtards being anyone who isn't a Trumpian foot soldier.)

Yep, if you had a hard time making it as a white man in a white man's world, it's only going to get worse for you. That's why handing out water is a threat to you and corporate sponsored gerrymandering isn't.

I'm a conservative but until the Republicans get past this crap, I'm voting for lizards and Libertarians.
Title: Re: New Georgia Law and Corporations
Post by: Rama Set on April 09, 2021, 03:17:47 PM
... the last thing you wrote was that it could become a huge deal.

I think the huge deal is that the legislation is unclear. On the face of it, it reads in isolation that anyone handing out food and drink would be committing a felony. But, as Tom points out, and as the legislation reads in totality, the subsection is concerned with campaigning activity, so it reads that way as if people could only be charged if they were doing the handing out as part of campaign activity.

How do you read it?
I read it as you are not allowed to electioneer within a certain amount of distance of the polling area.

I also read it as Rama and Dave not knowing how to interpret legislation and making a big deal about some people going to die from thirst while waiting in line for 15 minutes waiting to vote.

Stop lying about what I said please. I’ve pointed out a few times that your are inaccurately representing my position.
Title: Re: New Georgia Law and Corporations
Post by: Pete Svarrior on April 09, 2021, 03:28:31 PM
Yeah, I'm gonna have to back Rama up here. Can we drop the strawmanning?
Title: Re: New Georgia Law and Corporations
Post by: Lord Dave on April 09, 2021, 05:32:44 PM
I read it as you are not allowed to electioneer within a certain amount of distance of the polling area.

So in your view, it's not an offence for a random member of the public to give something to someone in line?
It never has been against the law for people to give things to other people in line.

That happens all the time, I'm sure.

This law strictly defines what electioneers cannot do.

If thats all it is then its probably fine.  Especially if its within 150ft only. 

Also:
That 15 min. Wait time was calculated in 2018, a year voter turnout is often lowest.
Also nation wide.  Also for a small segment of areas. (High minority, low minority).

https://www.npr.org/2020/10/17/924527679/why-do-nonwhite-georgia-voters-have-to-wait-in-line-for-hours-too-few-polling-pl?t=1617969656101

5 hours.  For a primary.  And since the precinct is only 88% non-white, it wouldn't fall in your statistic, which only counted 90% or more of non-white precincts.
Highest midterm turnout (likely ever) as a matter of fact.

Cute story by npr. Leaves out a lot of the issues actually in play.

Inept workers not following election law currently in place (purposefully, more than likely) resulting in the outrageous tale thus becoming necessary to be told.

Such as?  Also, way to know something you didn't know was a thing before I posted it.

Quote
I don't care what study you link to or how many npr cases to be offered.
And there's the bias.  So what you're saying is that only data that you agree with is accurate.  Yep.  Classic bias.

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10-15 minutes of wait time is likely to be the most time to wait at any polling booth in the US.
For the vast majority of 300,000+ voting places?  Yeah.  But I'm not saying most places have 5 hour wait lines.  I'm saying some do.

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And if you're in a place that has inept morons who don't know what the fuck they are talking about or doing (typically those areas run by Democrats, as described by npr), call a sheriff and demand them to enforce the election law.
Again, what law are they not following to cause such long wait times?  You also know election laws vary by state, right?  So I assume you're well versed in Georgia law so I await the answer.